The New Yorker Radio Hour - Episode 15: Lin-Manuel Miranda, Marc Maron, and the Broads of 'Broad City'

Date: January 29, 2016
Host: David Remnick

Episode Overview

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour, hosted by David Remnick, features three standout segments from the New Yorker Festival:

• An intimate and insightful conversation with Hamilton creator Lin-Manuel Miranda, exploring the conception, casting, and impact of the musical.
• A candid and energetic discussion with Abbi Jacobson and Ilana Glazer of Broad City led by TV critic Emily Nussbaum, touching on female-driven comedy, cultural topics, and the evolution of their show.
• A probing interview with comedian and podcast host Marc Maron by journalist Kelefa Sanneh, focusing on comedy, podcasting, personal transformation, and highlights from his career including his interview with President Obama.

The episode captures contemporary American culture through the lens of theater, television, and podcasting, highlighting creativity, personal insight, and the social relevance of art.

Segment 1: Lin-Manuel Miranda on ‘Hamilton’ (00:29–17:39)

Main Themes

• The creative process behind Hamilton, its casting vision, and cultural resonance.
• Relating American history to modern America through hip-hop and diverse casting.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Hamilton’s Genesis & Vision

  • Miranda describes his first experience watching Hamilton from the audience, movingly recalling, "I burst into tears at the end of the opening number...there are things you can't possibly see from on stage...It just killed me." (02:52)
  • He likens his perspective while developing the show to being “the lobster inside the boiling pot”—lacking objectivity as the creator.

• Performing with Audience Energy

  • Nightly performances are constantly renewed by audience reactions, especially the $10-lottery front row, with Miranda humorously noting, "I'll take a sleeping audience member over a texting audience member any day of the week." (03:52)
  • On audience impact: "I'm keeping tabs on all of it in terms of what's fun to perform." (04:17)
  • The joy of performing rap battles with Daveed Diggs, improvisation, and lively cast dynamics keeps the show fresh.

• Diversity and Casting Decisions

  • Casting actors of color was rooted in Miranda’s vision from the start: "I did conceive of this as a concept album first...I wasn't picturing the people on money when I was reading the book." (07:04)
  • The casting was organic—selecting the best voices for hip-hop/R&B, not as a “bold political pronouncement.”
  • Example: "Chris Jackson was really George Washington since In the Heights. I don’t know of an actor, maybe James Earl Jones, who has more moral authority on stage." (07:58)

• Character Development

  • Angelica Schuyler, imagined as the smartest character, gets the “most complicated and intricate raps.” Renee Elise Goldsberry’s natural speed of delivery was perfect: "She delivered it as if this is just the speed at which I speak. And I trust you to catch up." (09:18)

• Addressing American History and Legacy

  • Miranda shares details about scenes and rap battles cut from the final show—for example, a rap battle on slavery: "It was enormously cathartic to write it...but it just brought the show to a screeching halt." (10:22)
  • The struggle to represent historical figures grappling with slavery emphasized complexity and flaws.

• Personal & National Connection

  • Writing and performing Hamilton made Miranda feel more connected to America:
    "It's heartening to me to know that this was never a perfect union. It's always been striving for a more perfect union." (14:10)
  • On modern relevance: "The rap battles of our show—put them in the mouths of different talking heads and put them on MSNBC tomorrow and they would be just as relevant." (14:11)

• Immigration and Contemporary Resonance

  • Directly addressing anti-immigrant rhetoric of the 2016 election cycle:
    "It's so old. It's so old. This isn't new...There's always going to be a politician there to grab that fervor." (16:56)

Notable Quotes

• "We're always going to be fighting about these things. That gives me comfort...Don’t tell me that it’s worse than it’s ever been because it was always bad." — Lin-Manuel Miranda (15:53)
• On audience reactions: “I’ll keep track of the lady in the third row who’s asleep but woke up in time for Dear Theodosia. And you know what? I’ll take a sleeping audience member over a texting audience member any day of the week.” (03:52)

Segment 2: The Broads of ‘Broad City’ – Abbi Jacobson & Ilana Glazer (18:34–33:17)

Main Themes

• Origins and evolution of Broad City from web series to TV.
• Navigating “female topics” and industry feedback.
• Comedy, character, and cultural representation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Starting Out & Creative Process

  • Initially, the web series lacked a master plan: “We were just so in love with finding your voice.” — Ilana Glazer (20:15)
  • The characters were always versions of themselves, evolving as their real selves matured.

• Industry Pushback and Female-Centric Content

  • Networks, like FX, passed on Broad City for being “too girly”—a critique that ultimately strengthened their resolve: "I hope that we don’t ever go away from female topics. And that was almost like, no, I think you’re wrong." — Abbi Jacobson (21:07)

• Workplace Satire & Real-Life Inspirations

  • The “Deals, Deals, Deals” storyline was based on their real last job before selling the show—calling salons for a deal website: "We were so lucky that the young people who were running the company were proud of us having a passion." — Ilana Glazer (23:46)

• Character Growth & Separation from Selves

  • Both discuss the evolving distinction between their real selves and their characters, who are “much wilder”: "It’s a constant thing of trying to figure out, oh, well, who was I and who am I now?" — Abbi Jacobson (25:24)
  • The new season forces the characters to “slowly grow," moving beyond static comedy archetypes. (26:01)

• Handling Race and Cultural Appropriation in Comedy

  • The show’s take on race wasn’t initially deliberate: "I don’t think we were talking at all about, like, cultural appropriation at all or race." — Abby Jacobson (27:30)
  • On appropriation criticisms: "Yeah, cultural appropriation is a bummer...it’s okay to point it out and for it not to be cool in the show." — Ilana Glazer (28:12)

• Sexuality & Female Friendship

  • The show’s explicitness is rooted in authenticity:
    "Sex usually isn’t seen as silly...but sexiness is silly because it’s a new time." — Ilana Glazer (29:23)
  • On the Abby-Ilana relationship: "I love that it doesn’t always have to be a sexual relationship. These are just two best friends." — Abbi Jacobson (31:27)

• Future Projects

  • Jacobson and Glazer reveal they are working on a movie and individual projects, continuing to hone their creative voices.

Notable Quotes

• "Even though everything is a big deal, it’s also...nothing is a big deal...on most shows, it’s like sex is part of this narrative of getting the guy. Where in this show, it's just for the purpose of sex, which it is more in life." — Ilana Glazer (30:12)
• "Networks felt the show was too girly. And you know what, I’m like, great...It’s okay for a network to skew male." — Abbi Jacobson (21:23)

Memorable Moment

• The genuine happiness and validation they felt being featured in the New York Times for the first time: "We freaked the fuck out. They were so supportive." — Abby Jacobson (23:58)

Segment 3: Marc Maron and the Art of Podcasting (34:10–54:06)

Main Themes

• The evolution of stand-up and podcasting as creative crafts.
• Authenticity, struggle, and emotional honesty in art.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• On the Growth of ‘WTF’ and Self-Reflection

  • Maron credits his improvement as a host to “listening better” and being “a lot more emotionally engaged”:
    "I’m crying for almost no reason...and they’re like, this is an interesting way to start an interview." (35:28)
  • He describes comedy as initially a quest for impact more than laughs—using stand-up to process his own childhood and find acceptance (38:34).

• Paying Dues in Comedy

  • Maron expresses skepticism toward comedians who arrive quickly:
    "If somebody’s sitting before me and they don’t treat it with the respect that a lifer has for it, then fuck them. On some level...It’s hard to hear someone disrespect it or take it for granted." (39:18, 40:38)

• The Accidental Success of Podcasting

  • The early WTF episodes began out of desperation, without clear direction. Maron recalls the pivotal discovery:
    "I'd just rambled on for 15 minutes about lentil tar and my cats...I started getting these emails, like, that was the most compelling I ever heard." (41:16)
  • He likens the intimacy of audio podcasting to great morning radio and singles out Rush Limbaugh’s technical skill as a broadcaster. (45:01)

• Audience Shift and Famous Interviews

  • The shift in live audiences as a result of the podcast’s popularity was gradual and unexpected. Celebrity interviews, like Robin Williams and Louis CK, were initially booked without realizing their potential impact: "I always liked the guy [Louis CK]. I’m going to go. I’ll help him out. Like, I don’t think Louis CK had any idea that anyone was going to listen to that thing at all..." (45:28)

• Notable Podcast Moments

  • Clip from the emotional reunion/confrontation with Louis CK—highlighting the deep, complex relationships forged through comedy and podcasting (46:16).

• Podcast as Personal Therapy and Human Connection

  • Maron confides:
    "The first hundred or so podcasts were really just me inviting famous people over to help me with my problems...I love it." (50:13)
  • On the therapeutic value: "When you talk to somebody else, you get out of your own head and it engages your empathy..."

• Landing the President—and Lorne Michaels

  • Maron humorously notes that President Obama was easier to book than Lorne Michaels for the podcast.
  • Clip from Maron’s interview with Obama:
    "If I thought...when I was in college, that I’d be in a garage a couple miles away from where I was living doing an interview as president...I think that’s a pretty hard scenario...No, it is not. Nobody could imagine. So that's fun." — President Barack Obama (51:47)

• Emotional Aftermath

  • On how it felt after Obama left:
    "It was me and Brendan, and I cried. I knew it." — Marc Maron (54:06)

Notable Quotes

• “I became a broadcaster in my mind. And then it just became the conversations because I needed to talk.” — Marc Maron (45:03)
• “It’s a gift...to be good at something that you didn’t expect.” — Marc Maron (42:20)
• "Turns out the president is easier to book than Lorne Michaels." — Kelefa Sanneh (51:38)

Selected Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:29 – 17:39: Lin-Manuel Miranda on Hamilton
• 18:34 – 33:17: Abbi Jacobson & Ilana Glazer on Broad City
• 34:10 – 54:06: Marc Maron in conversation with Kelefa Sanneh

Tone and Style

Throughout the episode, the conversations are candid, witty, and deeply reflective. Speakers move fluidly between humor and gravity, offering listeners both inspirational and practical insights into their crafts and lives. The unfiltered, conversational style is immediately inviting and relatable, marked by self-deprecating humor, personal anecdotes, and a clear passion for their respective arts.

Takeaways for New Listeners

• This episode offers an engaging exploration of creativity at the intersection of history, culture, and identity.
• The guests share not just behind-the-scenes stories, but substantive musings on art, politics, legacy, and self.
• Each segment stands alone, but together they paint a portrait of creative risk-taking and the pursuit of authenticity—on stage, on screen, and behind the microphone.