Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour – Episode 34

Date: June 10, 2016
Main Themes: The perennial “Cats vs. Dogs” debate, the legacy of architect Zaha Hadid, and an in-depth conversation with actor Damian Lewis.

Overview

This lively episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour, hosted by David Remnick, features three distinct segments:

1. A humorous, intellectual “Cats vs. Dogs” debate with New Yorker luminaries Malcolm Gladwell, Adam Gopnik, Anthony Lane, and Ariel Levy duking it out before a live festival audience.
2. A conversation with the late Zaha Hadid, architecture’s trailblazing Pritzker Prize-winner, about her revolutionary designs and early life.
3. A profile and interview with Damian Lewis, celebrated for roles in “Band of Brothers,” “Homeland,” and “Billions”—diving into his approach to complex characters and career milestones.

Each segment is crisp, witty, and brimming with New Yorker flair, balancing humor, cultural insight, and personal stories.

1. Cats vs. Dogs Debate (00:11–22:13)

Setting

• Live debate at The New Yorker Festival, judged by David Remnick—who claims impartiality because he’s not fond of either animal.
• The audience serves as the jury, and victory is determined by applause.

Opening Arguments

Team Dog – Adam Gopnik (01:46)

• Gopnik frames “cat people” as members of a “cult,” investing cats with mystical traits:
  “A cult is simply an occasion when a group of otherwise intelligent people invest an object with emotions and intellectual powers that it possesses only through their projection.” (02:00)
• Dogs, by contrast, are presented as “evolutionary miracles”—the first animals to be domesticated, partners of humanity since Neolithic times:

  “The dog was the first animal to willfully break the circle of the campfire, to enter into co dependence with man.” (03:45)

• Humorously, dogs are described as social “Democrats” and cats as aloof “Republicans.”

Team Cat – Anthony Lane (05:25)

• Lane, who owns both dogs and cats, romanticizes the cool detachment of cats:

  “The way to imagine a cat is at every point it is smoking an invisible filterless white French cigarette.” (06:21)

• He lampoons dogs’ relentless cheer:

  “They tell us every day is going to be the best day… If you’re a serious, perceptive person… you know that’s wrong. What the dog is asking you to do… is to live a lie.” (06:56)

• Lane asserts: “Truth is cats. Cats is truth.” (07:19)

Supporting Statements

Malcolm Gladwell (for Dogs) (08:23)

• Gladwell takes a high-stakes approach, arguing national security depends on dogs:

  “This whole debate has massive national security implications… Baggage handlers brought out an absolutely adorable German shepherd with his handler… Now, allow me to make the absolutely obvious… no cat would do that.” (09:37–10:25)

• Gladwell references psychology, branding cats as emblematic of a “fixed mindset” and dogs as “effort mindset” team players.

Ariel Levy (for Cats) (12:34)

• Levy recalls her acrimonious but evolving relationship with the cat Paolo:

  “Immediately the cat and I recognized each other for what we were: natural enemies… But over the years, something inexplicable happened. That cat grew on me like a fungus.” (12:44)

• She posits that loving cats teaches independence, not codependency, quoting biologist Thorsten Veblen:

  “The cat lives with man on terms of equality. By contrast… a dog has the gift of unquestioning subservience and a slave’s quickness in guessing his master’s moods. I say liberty, equality, fraternity—cats.” (14:25 & 14:50)

Closing Arguments

Adam Gopnik (Dogs) (15:28)

• Gopnik emphasizes dogs’ contribution to geniality and social harmony, referencing JFK keeping a dog during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
• Jabs at the “relentless sourness” of cats:

  “What did we hear?... that cats are melancholic and isolated… Ask yourselves as you cast this terribly important and deciding vote tonight, if you want to stand with this genus or… live alongside those who cherish the dog.” (15:28–17:29)

Anthony Lane (Cats) (17:32)

• Lane waxes philosophical:

  “To the dog, life is all fidelity, kindness and friendship. To the cat, all is mystery and bewilderment… The universe is like a cat. It is unknowable, lethal, very beautiful and beyond our comprehension.” (17:32)

• Deploys pop-culture zingers:
  • “Did Tom Jones stand up at Las Vegas and say, what’s new, poochie wooch? No, he didn’t… Did James Bond have a blonde bisexual girlfriend called Doggy Galore? I don’t think so.”
• Ends with a flourish:

  “Cat people have better sex… because there’s not a flatulent Labrador in the middle of the bed… Viva la chat!” (19:00)

The Verdict (20:09–22:13)

• After a comedic “clap-o-meter” round, Remnick declares:

  “Victory is to the dogs, but joy to all of you.” (21:38)

2. Damian Lewis: Crafting Complex Characters (22:13–41:46)

Interviewer: Lauren Collins, with David Remnick

Lewis on “Billions” and Hedge Fund Billionaires (23:37)

• Lewis describes his research with real financiers (Bill Ackman, Dan Loeb, Larry Robbins):

  “There’s a sort of self-mythologizing that goes on… because they believe they’re the underdog always… they set themselves against the house.” (24:13)

• Discusses the shifting moral codes among hedge-funders:

  “They could never really persuade me ... that playing to a moral code that we might all conventionally understand…it wasn’t possible to justify what they do.” (25:04)

Lewis on Acting – Techniques & Anecdotes

• Lewis often “steals” quirks from people or stand-ins for his characters. On The Forsyte Saga:

  “I nicked it. I stole it… this rather sort of tension that lived in him.” (33:04)

• On using a woman's thong for a role in The Escapist:

  “I wore a woman’s thong for the whole film shoot… and I got the walk immediately… if I didn’t move quickly, it was gonna cut me.” (34:17, 34:41)

Adopting an American Accent

• Childhood visits to the US and “Band of Brothers” helped Lewis master the accent:

  “One of the veterans…said, ‘Lewis, I got no idea what part of the state you’re from, but you sound American…’ and from that moment on, I stuck with it.” (36:07)

• Impression of “Homeland” and being invited to the White House:

  “I tried to make a quip... ‘if you are going to go into Iran, please let us know so we can make season two as current as possible’… almost as quickly, I just felt this enormous hand… move along please, sir…” (38:33–39:05)

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On playing billionaires:
  “It is quite fun playing a billionaire. I’ve been on more yachts, private jets, and helicopters than in my entire life in the space of the last two months.” (26:57)
• On the White House dinner:
  “Looking for our seat... to arrive at top table, at Table 1… sitting across from the President of the United States, with David Cameron and Warren Buffett…” (39:52)

3. Zaha Hadid: A Legacy of Fluidity and Innovation (43:56–54:19)

Interviewer: John Seabrook

On Architecture and Design

• Hadid describes her Azerbaijan project as “three buildings morphed into one... a theater, museum, and library” made with fiber concrete to allow “continuous, seamless surfaces.” (44:14)
• She reflects on designing ‘liquid space’:

  “We began to talk about liquid space, but… we didn’t really know how to achieve it. It took a long time to see how we can really convert… space and landscape or liqueurs into an architecture.” (45:34)

Childhood and Baghdad

• Raised in a cosmopolitan, politically aware household:

  “My parents… did explain things to me. So I was very aware of politics… from maybe when I was six, seven years old.” (47:15)

• Attended a Catholic school as a Muslim, noting the diversity and a formative headmistress:

  “The nuns’ school had girls of every kind, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, and we all used to pray.” (47:53)

Designing from Early On

• Designed her own asymmetrical bedroom as a child:

  “I wanted to design my own bedroom… which I did. And then everybody liked my bedroom, so the carpenter made it for everybody. It is a mass-produced bedroom.” (48:47)

Early Work and The Role of Computers

• Early “abstract” drawings as analysis of sites, not mere art:

  “The abstract drawings were really analysis of the site. They were not just abstract for the sake of it.” (50:55)

• Before CAD/design software:

  “All research and drawing informed the work because it didn’t just distort; it eventually made the work like that.” (51:31)

• She still draws, but her staff struggles to interpret her sketches (52:30).

On Design Philosophy

• Finds architectural ideas feed into product design (shoes, etc.):

  “They’re more like the architecture, the shoes.” (52:44)

• Dream project?

  “My dream project is to go on a vacation.” (53:28)

• On not living in her own highly designed residence:

  “Nobody in my office will do it.” (53:56)

• On seeing your own mistakes daily:

  “You can do that only when you are very young... or you’re quite old, where you’re quite delirious and you don’t notice it.” (54:03)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Adam Gopnik on pet loyalties:
  “All dogs are Democrats and all cats are Republicans.” (04:37)
• Anthony Lane on cats:
  “The way to imagine a cat is at every point it is smoking an invisible filterless white French cigarette.” (06:21)
• Malcolm Gladwell on bomb detection:
  “No cat would do that… The cat does not sniff for bombs because the cat doesn’t want to sniff for bombs.” (10:25)
• Ariel Levy on cat relationships:
  “That cat grew on me like a fungus… love has nothing much to do with compatibility.” (13:14)
• Anthony Lane’s playful finale:
  “Did James Bond have a blonde bisexual girlfriend called Doggy Galore? I don’t think so… Cat people have better sex.” (18:00)
• Damian Lewis on billionaire research:
  “There’s a sort of self-mythologizing that goes on with them…” (24:13)
• Zaha Hadid on her dream project:
  “My dream project is to go on a vacation.” (53:28)

Segment Timestamps Overview

• Cats vs. Dogs Debate: 00:11–22:13
• Damian Lewis Interview: 22:13–41:46
• Zaha Hadid Interview: 43:56–54:19

Episode Tone

The episode is marked by wit, erudition, and a fondness for both the profound and the playful. Each segment is intellectually rich, peppered with humor and self-awareness—characteristic of The New Yorker’s style. The show flows briskly, making dense cultural discussions accessible and entertaining.

Final Thoughts

• Listeners leave with:

  • Enlightened perspectives on the personalities of cats and dogs, beyond stereotypes.
  • Inside access to an acclaimed actor’s method and reflections on moral ambiguity in modern storytelling.
  • Intimate insights into the life and mind of a pioneering modern architect.

• Memorable conclusion:

  “Victory is to the dogs, but joy to all of you.” (21:38)

This episode is a treat for animal lovers, architecture buffs, and fans of elite storytelling alike.