The New Yorker Radio Hour – Episode 35

Date: June 17, 2016
Host: David Remnick
Guests: Samantha Bee, Pamela Carlin, Jaron Lanier, Paul Rudnick, Bob Bozik, Nick Paumgarten

Episode Overview

This episode juxtaposes comedy with tragedy and explores the intersections of politics, personal experience, and creativity. The first half features an in-depth and emotional interview between David Remnick and Samantha Bee, examining how her show "Full Frontal" responded to the Orlando nightclub shooting and discussing the evolution of late-night political comedy. The episode then shifts to Supreme Court issues, with Paul Rudnick's satirical job application and a substantive interview with law professor Pamela Carlin about the impact of the Court’s changing makeup. The final segments include an interview with digital pioneer Jaron Lanier on technology’s unforeseen downsides and a poignant portrait of Bob Bozik, a New York bartender who reclaims a lost family mansion in Serbia.

I. Samantha Bee’s Fury and Full Frontal's Response to Tragedy

Guest: Samantha Bee
(00:31–13:27)

Main Theme

Samantha Bee and her team’s creative and ethical choices in responding to the 2016 Orlando massacre on her show "Full Frontal," and the larger role of satire and anger in late-night political comedy.

Key Discussion Points

• Immediate Decision-Making after Orlando

  • On the Sunday of the massacre, Bee and her staff decided to set aside their usual content and directly address the tragedy in the show's opening [01:43].
    • "Are we just throwing out... the first act, but basically putting it aside to face the event head on? And that was really a no brainer for our show." — Samantha Bee [01:43]

• Radical Tone Change: Expressing Rage on Air

  • Bee opted for open anger, moving away from the "standard operating procedure" of unity and platitudes.
    • "I'm too angry for that. Love does not win unless we start loving each other enough to fix our problems." — Samantha Bee [02:17]

• Struggle with Performance and Emotions

  • Bee explains her battle not to cry on air, but admits the effort was only partly successful.
    • "I am a real baby. I mean, I do cry a lot, and I think that's really healthy... but I really didn't want to do it in this performance." — Samantha Bee [03:37]

• Juggling Humor and Grief

  • The team had to instinctively balance comedy and seriousness:
    • "It's very instinctive, even in the face of tragedy. We do recognize that we're a comedy show." — Samantha Bee [05:02]

• Influence of Jon Stewart and Shifting Norms

  • Discusses Stewart’s impact on comedy’s reaction to national trauma, and how addressing tragedy is now expected, not a cliche:
    • "There was a Jon Stewart effect... now, when you have a show like this, you do have to address it." — Samantha Bee [05:49]
    • "You're doing a topical show. You're in the moment... you do have to react." — Samantha Bee [06:24]

• Ambitions for “Full Frontal”

  • Bee emphasizes the importance of enjoying the creative process, not just achieving fame:
    • "My ambition for the show at the moment is to keep this feeling of pure enjoyment..." — Samantha Bee [07:32]

Memorable Quotes

• "I hope that the fury continues unabated until we actually put our actions behind our words and our thoughts and our prayers, for sure." — Samantha Bee [02:52]
• "If you don't have one friend to hold the phone for you, your lone wolf ass doesn't get a gun." — Samantha Bee on gun laws [04:39]
• "We are just—and I am just—angry. And I felt like it was the correct point of view and the correct tone for our show." — Samantha Bee [06:24]
• "We've always delivered this show and we always knew that we wanted to deliver this show from our gut..." — Samantha Bee [05:25]
• "This has been a really good... if you like authoritarian demagogues, and I do. Who doesn’t?" — David Remnick, tongue-in-cheek about the election [09:27]

Notable Moments & Timestamps

• Bee’s Monologue — [02:17]
• Discussion on performance and emotions — [03:16–03:52]
• Balancing rage and comedy — [04:43–05:19]
• Reflections on Jon Stewart and media responsibility — [05:35–06:59]
• Ambitions and personal satisfaction — [07:32–08:03]

II. Satirical Segment: Applying for the Supreme Court

Performer: Paul Rudnick
(14:07–16:44)

Purpose and Tone

A tongue-in-cheek “job application” for Supreme Court Justice, lampooning judicial appointments and contemporary political anxieties.

• Sample answer to "Why do you want to be a Supreme Court justice?":
  • "B, it will look good on Tinder, especially the photo in which I'm flirtatiously unzipping my robe..." [14:11]
• Under "What would you like your legacy to be?"
  • "He or she bravely remained on the Court for three years after being declared legally dead." [16:12]

III. What Would a Democratic Supreme Court Look Like?

Interview: Jeffrey Toobin with Pamela Carlin
(17:28–28:00)

Main Theme

Political implications of the Supreme Court’s composition, especially with the pending Merrick Garland nomination and a possible Clinton presidency.

Key Insights & Discussion Points

• Garland’s Prospects:

  • It's possible Garland could be confirmed in a lame-duck session after the election but before the new Congress [17:42].

• Potential Shift to Democratic-Appointed Majority

  • Would be the first such majority in a long time; could change direction on pivotal issues [18:16].

• Citizens United and Campaign Finance Reform

  • Carlin doubts the Court would overrule Citizens United outright but predicts increased support for campaign finance regulation [18:57].
    • "It's far more likely... the Court might move back towards approving more regulations based on ideas that equality is a value that campaign finance regulation can serve." — Pamela Carlin [19:02]

• Abortion Rights

  • Predicts many state-level abortion restrictions would be struck down with a Democratic majority, applying the “undue burden" standard more rigorously [21:45].
    • "Most of those laws would be struck down... a lot more things are going to be viewed as undue burdens..." — Pamela Carlin [21:45]

• Opinion Assignment Power

  • Explains how the majority controls not just decisions, but the scope and reasoning via opinion assignments, vastly impacting future law [22:44].

• Voting Rights

  • Predicts a Democratic majority would “absolutely” be more likely to strike down restrictive voting laws [26:04].
  • "The current eight justice Supreme Court seems to have moved from being baseball umpires to being football punters." — Pamela Carlin [26:43]

• Potential Supreme Court Involvement in 2016 Election

  • While it's unlikely a replay of Bush v. Gore will occur, the Court may need to resolve conflicting lower court rulings on election law [26:27–28:00].

IV. Jaron Lanier on Lost Utopias and Virtual Reality Ethics

Interviewer: Nick Thompson
(29:02–42:23)

Main Theme

A candid reflection on the unanticipated failures of Internet utopianism, the manipulation economy of the web, and the promise and perils of virtual reality.

Key Insights & Discussion Points

• Early Optimism vs. Reality

  • Lanier once believed universal open information would lead to rational discourse and knowledge, notably on issues like climate change. This did not come to pass due to "perverse incentives" in the web’s advertising-driven model [29:02–30:58].

• “Fork in the Road”

  • The crucial moment: Google (and others) embracing targeted advertising and behavioral manipulation [30:48].
    • "We ended up turning the Internet into this giant sort of manipulation service where people pay us for what's called advertising, but it's more like behavioral manipulation." — Jaron Lanier [30:32]

• How Advertising Incentivizes Misinformation

  • "Given that advertising essentially is the only source of revenue... there's a lot of room for manipulation." — Jaron Lanier [30:58]

• A Vision for a New Internet

  • Imagines a network of equals, where users get paid for data and contributions—potentially producing better service and less manipulation [31:57–32:45].

• The New Frontier of Virtual Reality

  • Describes VR as both a creative and potentially “apocalyptically creepy” medium, reminding listeners that all powerful technology has dual potentials [34:00–35:25].

• Principles for VR’s Social Good

  • 1. Users must own their own data and control its use and value.
  • 2. Clear ethical and legal standards separating digital illusion from reality must be enforced [35:25–37:06].

• Children and Tech

  • Lanier, like many tech elites, is cautious about digital overexposure in his own child’s life, balancing creative and “zombie” uses [40:21–41:15].

Notable Quotes

• "People need to control their data." — Jaron Lanier [37:01]
• "As we get better and better at creating illusions, there should be a firm ethical and legal requirement that people are honest about when they're creating an illusion versus when they're not." — Jaron Lanier [37:06]

V. Bob Bozik: A Bartender’s Epic Homecoming

Reporter: Nick Paumgarten
(43:28–54:16)

Main Story

The extraordinary odyssey of Bob Bozik—former bank robber, boxer, and New York bartender—who sets off to reclaim his family’s grand house in Belgrade, lost post-World War II to the Communists.

Key Story Beats

• Bozik’s Orphaned Beginning

  • Born to a wealthy family ruined by war and politics, given up by his mother, grew up in foster care, running away at 14 [45:06].

• Survival and Reinvention

  • Became a street kid, taken in by a gangster, became a boxer—the "Landlord"—and eventually turned to petty crime, including one bank robbery [45:28–46:36].

• Shifting to Europe and the Battle for the House

  • After travels and various adventures, learns Serbia is returning nationalized properties as a condition for EU membership [47:26–48:58].
    • "The courts have given me back the house... The one in charge called the restitution. They're fighting everybody now." — Bob Bozik [48:52]

• The Emotional Stakes and Uncertain Future

  • For Bozik, it’s as much about heritage and closure as property—his daughter Vesna, his ex-wife Alex (Obama’s former college girlfriend), and his lifelong search for home [51:22–52:57].
    • "Everything was just a preparation for the... the final fight. And this is my final fight." — Bob Bozik [49:08]
  • "He may joke about the diamonds, but the real treasure is that house. If and when he gets it." — Nick Paumgarten [53:04]

• The Key and the Ceremony

  • With comic irony, it’s revealed the ceremonial “key” to the mansion is candy-coated and unlikely to open anything [50:32–50:54].

• Resolution and Next Steps

  • Bozik plans to move in, buy pajamas and simple furnishings, and considers finding peace—not with wealth, but with meaning [53:44].
    • "I want to live someplace where I can finish up making some kind of sense. I can't make sense of this life, so I'd like to send Buddy's interpretation." — Bob Bozik [53:44]

• Immediate Setbacks

  • Upon arrival in Serbia, Bob's new home has no electricity or heat—“So it begins.” [54:29]

Episode Timeline at a Glance

• 00:31–13:27 – Samantha Bee interview: Tragedy, comedy, and creative process in “Full Frontal”
• 14:07–16:44 – Paul Rudnick’s satirical Supreme Court job application
• 17:28–28:00 – Pamela Carlin and Jeffrey Toobin: What the Supreme Court could look like
• 29:02–42:23 – Jaron Lanier and Nick Thompson: The Internet’s utopian promise, perversion, and VR’s future
• 43:28–54:16 – Nick Paumgarten profiles Bob Bozik’s surreal journey home

Summary Takeaways

• Samantha Bee’s blend of anger and comedy redefines how late-night shows respond to real-time tragedy, drawing on but distinct from the “Jon Stewart effect.”
• Supreme Court shifts could have profound but incrementally realized impacts on campaign finance, abortion rights, and voter access, with the nuances detailed by Pamela Carlin.
• Jaron Lanier provides a sobering reminder of the unintended consequences of optimistic tech culture, cautioning for user empowerment in coming virtual realities.
• Bob Bozik’s story is a modern odyssey, encompassing the search for identity, justice, and home against the odds of politics and personal loss.

Notable Quotes (for Sharing or Citation)

• "I am too angry for that. Love does not win unless we start loving each other enough to fix our problems." — Samantha Bee [02:17]
• "We ended up turning the Internet into this giant sort of manipulation service." — Jaron Lanier [30:32]
• "Everything was just a preparation for the... the final fight. And this is my final fight." — Bob Bozik [49:08]

For listeners seeking a sharp blend of comic outrage, legal insight, digital prophecy, and personal storytelling, Episode 35 captures both the gravity and the absurdity of our cultural moment.