Podcast Summary

The New Yorker Radio Hour – Episode 36: Fear and the NRA, and a Hymn for Orlando

Date: June 24, 2016
Host: David Remnick
Produced by: WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

Overview

This episode tackles two major topics:

• Part One: An in-depth exploration of the relationship between fear, American gun culture, and the NRA, featuring a candid conversation between New Yorker staff writer Evan Osnos and Mike "the Gun Guy" Weiser, a pro-gun critic of the NRA.
• Part Two: A profile of hymn writer and pastor Carolyn Gillette, highlighting her timely hymns that respond to tragedies like mass shootings, with particular focus on her hymn for Orlando.

Part 1: Fear and the NRA

Main Theme

The segment investigates how the NRA leverages fear, especially after mass shootings and urban unrest, to maintain political influence and drive gun sales, despite a shrinking gun industry and falling crime rates.

Key Discussion Points

• Mike Weiser’s Background

  • Longtime gun enthusiast: childhood NRA member, competitive shooter, gun industry insider, gun shop owner, and instructor.
  • Despite being pro-gun rights, he's a scathing critic of the NRA’s tactics.

• The Gun Industry’s Real Size

  • Weiser notes the gun industry is actually quite small, with only 5-6 companies producing 80% of guns in shops.
    • "The contrast between the size of the industry... as opposed to the public concern about the industry, is extraordinary." (03:00, Weiser)

• The Shift in NRA Messaging

  • Historically, the NRA focused on sport and hunting. In the mid-1980s, they pivoted toward urban crime fears, leveraging public anxiety about riots (like Rodney King in 1992) to promote guns for self-defense.
    • "I remember sitting in front of my TV set... a car pulled up and three or four African American young men pulled this white driver out... And that broadcast... was seen in every household." (05:22, Weiser)
    • Gun sales surged the day after the Rodney King verdict violence aired, a pattern repeated after other high-profile events.

• The Power of Fear in Gun Sales and Politics

  • Mass shootings don’t just drive sales temporarily—the language of personal security and being a "persecuted minority" keeps the political pressure high.
    • "It's not the fact that you have this kind of daily in and out shootings. It's more when something really newsworthy occurs. And that's obviously when you get a mass shooting." (03:49, Weiser)
    • "They want guns to be a mainstream, ordinary thing... and yet... want all the gun owners to think that they are this persecuted minority." (12:58, Weiser)

• NRA's Messaging – Patriotism & Division

  • The NRA uses heavily charged rhetoric mixing themes of patriotism, masculinity, elite-bashing, and rural identity.
    • Clip of Wayne LaPierre painting a picture of urban lawlessness and "elites" abandoning ordinary people (07:45–08:44, LaPierre/NRA clip).
    • "There's no reality to any of this... What there is is a consistent attempt to marshal support on the basis of fear on the one hand, and patriotism on the other." (08:58, Weiser)

• Self-Defense Myths and Gun Ownership

  • The claim that guns are necessary for self-defense is largely unsubstantiated by data; most people rarely if ever use guns that way.
    • "I've never seen one piece of credible research which shows... that walking around with a gun protects you from crime or protects you from anything else." (18:57, Weiser)

• Fear vs. Facts

  • Weiser and Osnos note public perception of crime is increasing even as crime rates fall, driven by the NRA’s emotionally charged messaging and media echo chambers.
    • "As the rate of violent crime continues to go down, the percentage of people... who say that violent crime is going up, grows." (12:03, Weiser)

• Gun Legislation: What Would It Take?

  • Following mass shootings, meaningful federal legislation remains stymied without a Democratic White House and Congress, as was the case post-Sandy Hook and even after Orlando.
    • "Without that kind of constellation, I don't see a gun bill passing." (20:23, Weiser)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Why People Buy Guns

  “You’re not buying something that you need… so they’ll just throw out whatever’s in their head. ‘Oh, I need a gun for self-defense’… The number of people who really ultimately use a gun in self-defense is a very, very tiny fraction of the number of people who own and buy guns.”
  — Mike Weiser (09:14)

• On NRA Messaging

  “There’s no reality to any of this, okay? What there is is a consistent attempt to marshal support on the basis of fear on the one hand, and patriotism on the other.”
  — Mike Weiser (08:58)

• On the Success of the Fear Tactic

  “The moment that you can make people think that they’re a persecuted minority, you can really rev them up.”
  — Mike Weiser (12:58)

• On the Limits of Gun Control

  “We have had two major gun control pieces of legislation… Both of those laws happened with liberal Democrats who were Southerners in the White House, and Democratic control of Congress… Without that kind of constellation, I don’t see a gun bill passing.”
  — Mike Weiser (20:23)

Key Segment Timestamps

• 00:32 — Mike Weiser’s introduction and background
• 02:31 — The gun industry’s true size
• 05:22 — The impact of Rodney King riots on gun sales
• 07:45 — Wayne LaPierre NRA clip: fear and political messaging
• 12:03 — Discussing the rising gap between fear and reality
• 14:48 — Commentary on post-disaster gun messaging (e.g., after hurricanes)
• 18:57 — Weiser on research showing no community benefit for armed citizens
• 20:23 — Political reality of gun laws post-mass shooting

Part 2: A Hymn for Orlando

Main Theme

Carolyn Gillette’s timely hymn writing amid tragedy—how sacred music can channel collective grief, hope, and calls to action during events like the Orlando mass shooting.

Key Discussion Points

• Carolyn Gillette’s Origin as a Hymn Writer

  • Began writing hymns in 1998, adapting old hymn tunes with new, thematic lyrics to respond to current events (23:11).
    • "I write what I think and what I feel… I love to help people find words to sing in church." (31:15, Gillette)

• Bringing Lamentation into Worship

  • Carolyn sees a place in worship for grief as well as praise, crafting hymns of lament after tragedies (25:26).
    • "I think there’s also a place in the church for lamentation, for singing those songs of sadness, the grief that comes... about things that make us very sad when we look around and see all the violence and the injustice around us." (24:27, Gillette)

• Linking Faith with Current Events

  • Applies the sermon wisdom: "a Bible in one hand, the newspaper in the other" to hymn writing, connecting faith and contemporary headlines (26:05).
    • Her hymn "God, how can we comprehend" was written while watching news coverage of refugees.

• Powerful Examples

  • Her 9/11 hymn provided words for a community and comfort for individuals still wrestling with trauma (28:04).
    • "Whenever I get really anxious or really upset about everything... I just pull out the words of your hymn." (30:09, correspondence about Gillette’s hymn)

• Hymns as Calls for Action and Hope

  • Gillette’s work includes prophetic hymns urging justice, compassion, and thoughtful civic participation (“In Times of Great Decision,” 32:04).

• Healing and Community through Song

  • Singing collective laments and prayers can help ease cynicism and restore hope, even during national tragedies like Orlando (33:18).
    • "Singing the hymn made me hopeful again about the possibility that things could be better." (33:18, Josh Rothman)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Writing About Disasters

  “People know me by those hymns and they say, ‘Ah, you’re the one who writes the songs about disasters. You always have a great song for a disaster!’”
  — Carolyn Gillette (25:26)

• On the Role of Lament

  “There’s a place in church for lamentation... when we look around and see all the violence and the injustice around us.”
  — Carolyn Gillette (24:27)

• On the Continuity of Old and New

  “With the old hymn tunes, I can put new words and help people see that there is a connection between the old and the new.”
  — Carolyn Gillette (27:38)

Key Segment Timestamps

• 23:04 — Carolyn Gillette’s introduction and story of beginning hymn writing
• 24:27 — Her philosophy of lament and praise in worship
• 28:04 — Story of the 9/11 hymn’s live composition and effect
• 32:04 — Excerpt from “In Times of Great Decision” on voting and civic duty
• 33:18 — Testimony of hope sparked by singing her Orlando hymn

Notable Quotes and Timestamps (Quick Reference)

• “The contrast between the size of the industry in terms of the dollar amounts as opposed to the public concern about the industry is extraordinary.”
  – Mike Weiser (03:00)

• “You couldn’t get into a gun shop to buy a gun because they were all sold out.”
  – Mike Weiser on the day after the Rodney King riots (06:31)

• “They want all the gun owners to think that they are this persecuted minority... you can really rev them up.”
  – Mike Weiser (12:58)

• “If the NRA would be supporting guns on a basis of what I believe they should be used for by civilians, which is shooting sports and hunting, they’d get no argument from me.”
  – Mike Weiser (18:57)

• “I think there’s also a place in the church for lamentation, for singing those songs of sadness...”
  – Carolyn Gillette (24:27)

• “With the old hymn tunes, I can put new words and help people see that there is a connection between the old and the new.”
  – Carolyn Gillette (27:38)

• “Singing the hymn made me hopeful again about the possibility that things could be better.”
  – Josh Rothman, after singing Gillette’s hymn for Orlando (33:18)

Episode Tone & Style

• Conversational and reflective
• Mix of investigative journalism, personal storytelling, and cultural commentary
• Original voices of the interviewees and hosts maintained, blending critical inquiry with empathy

Summary

Part 1 dissects America's persistent gun fears, peeling back the myths around self-defense and revealing how the NRA’s culture-war rhetoric perpetuates gun sales and political influence by constructing a sense of embattlement among gun owners—often irrespective of facts or realities on the ground.

Part 2 offers a powerful counterpoint, as hymn writer Carolyn Gillette demonstrates how art, faith, and honest emotional expression help individuals and communities process grief, cultivate hope, and call for collective action—especially in the heartbreaking aftermath of tragedies like the Orlando shooting.

The episode ultimately juxtaposes two distinct narratives: one in which fear is used to divide and sell, and another where vulnerability and hope are brought together in song, offering solidarity and resilience.