The New Yorker Radio Hour – Episode 45: Father Pfleger, Larry David, and the History of Autism

Date: August 26, 2016
Host: David Remnick
Producers: WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

Episode Overview

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour weaves together three rich segments:

1. A profile of Chicago’s activist priest Father Michael Pfleger and his fight against gun violence on the South Side
2. A comic reading by Larry David of "Missed Connections for A Holes"
3. Insightful conversations—first with comedy powerhouse Judd Apatow on his career and influences, then with novelist Edmund White about art, aging, and beauty, and finally a deep dive with journalists John Donvan and Karen Zucker on the complex history and evolving understanding of autism

1. Father Pfleger: Fighting for Chicago’s South Side

[00:29–12:32]
Reporter: Evan Osnos
Featured: Father Michael Pfleger

Key Points & Insights

• Background:
  Father Michael Pfleger, a white priest at the predominantly Black St. Sabina Church, has become a force in Chicago's politics and community struggle against violence.
• Personal History:
  • Pfleger was forever shaped by witnessing Martin Luther King Jr. marching against housing discrimination in Chicago in 1966.
  • "It launched him on an obsession, as he puts it, with King and also with the struggle for civil rights." (Osnos, 02:32)
• Community Impact:
  • Pfleger attends and leads many funerals for young men lost to violence—viewing these moments as urgent calls for community action.
  • At Philip "Cartoon" Dupree’s funeral, Pfleger addresses gang members with raw honesty about violence and personal responsibility.
• Notable Quotes:
  • "What's it going to take to stop the madness out here? ... What we also got to do is stop the shooting and the killing of each other." (Pfleger, 06:07)
  • "We have to stop this crazy spirit of retaliation. ... You never get even." (Pfleger, 09:16)
  • "Are you kidding me? We gonna fight and shoot and kill over blocks that have been abandoned and neglected by the city and the state and the federal government so long some blocks that look like third world countries." (Pfleger, 09:50)
• Memorable Moments:
  • Osnos reveals that Cartoon once threatened to kill Pfleger, but the priest still chose to perform the funeral, using the occasion to plead for change (07:33).
• Reflection:
  • "He allows himself to imagine that the acts of one person on any given day can, in fact, perhaps change the history to come." (Osnos, 11:28)

2. Larry David Reads “Missed Connections for A Holes”

[13:17–16:01]
Writer: Ethan Cooperberg
Performed by: Larry David

Key Points & Insights

• Premise:
  Larry David dramatically reads satirical "Missed Connections" ads targeting everyday rudeness—vegan hypocrisy, ill-tended dogs, slow burrito orders, poor grammar, and Google Glass douchery.
• Notable Quotes:
  • "You said that you literally could not live without the salsa you were buying. I wish you could literally not live without that salsa. Because then I'd take it from you." (Larry David, 15:24)
• Tone:
  Classic Larry David—acerbic, deadpan, and hilarious in skewering social irritations.

3. Judd Apatow on Comedy, Responsibility, and Family

[16:01–32:35]
Interviewers: Susan Morrison, occasional contributions from David Remnick and Josh Rothman

Key Points & Insights

• Stand-Up Return & Club Scene:
  Apatow returns to stand-up after 22 years, finds joy at New York’s Comedy Cellar surrounded by comedy legends.
• Transition from Performer to Writer/Producer:
  • Left stand-up due to self-doubt and friends' prowess; found strength writing in others' voices (18:05).
  • "If I'm a disappointment, it's a drag. So they don't give you the courtesy laugh for too long." (Apatow, 18:54)
• On Creating Movies vs. Stand-Up:
  • Movies are “painful” and stressful, stand-up offers immediate feedback—relief or fresh challenge (19:16, 19:37).
• On Bill Cosby:
  Apatow was outspoken about Cosby's alleged crimes, motivated by knowledge of survivors and personal outrage:
  • "He did this, and we can't let this disappear again... His whole life is about personal responsibility. So it's very weird for a guy at the end of it to not take any personal responsibility." (21:01)
• On Comedians as Public Intellectuals:
  • "I think comedians have always pointed out BS. ... Comedy has mocked lack of tolerance." (22:47)
  • Comedy helps foster rational, tolerant perspectives in the younger generation.
• Family Influence:
  • His mother’s job at a comedy club after divorce shaped his comedic education—suggests parental sacrifice intertwined with his creative path (24:04).
• On Relationships, Growth, and His Netflix Show "Love":
  • Comedy thrives on characters in distress—“being a human being is being immature.” (27:03)
  • The show reveals messy, real-time relationship dynamics (28:11).
• Improv & Creative Process:
  • Encourages improvisation on set for authenticity—“You really have to listen because people are going to subtly reword everything all the time.” (29:27)
• On “Conservative” Endings:
  • Argues hope, resilience, and happiness are human, not political, values—“I like showing hope. I like showing people struggle to figure out how to make it work.” (30:58)

4. Edmund White on Gay Art, Aging, and Beauty

[33:26–42:11]
Interviewer: Josh Rothman
Guest: Edmund White

Key Points & Insights

• Literary Influence:
  White’s candid, unapologetic depictions of gay life have broadened the literary discourse on sexuality and identity.
• Writing Motives:
  • "All of writing, I think, is made up of two elements. One is mimesis, where you're imitating actual life experiences. And the other part is fantasy... I tip more toward the fantasy end." (34:20)
• Beauty and Aging in Gay Culture:
  • Discusses fleeting youth, changing ideals of male beauty—"Being beautiful induced melancholy in Guy." (White reading, 37:11)
  • Shifts from youth worship to broader, cultivated notions of adulthood and connection.
• Romanticism & AIDS Era:
  • Love stories in his novels progress past the ‘happy ending,’ delve into real-life complexity.
  • “Some things are worth dying for. But people didn’t want to hear that.” (40:17)
• Changing Acceptance & Possibilities:
  • Openness has diversified gay experience, and thus, its literary representation.
  • On his students' contradictions: “I have a terrible gaydar these days and I can never tell who’s gay.” (41:21)

5. The Changing History and Definition of Autism

[43:50–54:47]
Guests: John Donvan & Karen Zucker
Interviewer: David Remnick

Key Points & Insights

• Personal Stakes:
  Both authors have close family experience with autism—Zucker as a mother, Donvan through marriage.
• Services and Society:
  • Stark difference in support for adults with autism internationally—“We have next to nothing [in the U.S.].” (Remnick, 45:54)
  • Turning 21 brings an abrupt end to legal and social support, termed “falling off a cliff.” (46:26)
• Rising Diagnosis Rates & Spectrum Complexity:
  • Broadening definitions and increased awareness inflate statistics; "each time we count...we're counting apples and oranges." (Zucker, 47:15)
  • The term ‘on the spectrum’ has become vague, complicating understanding and support.
• Patient Zero:
  The search for “Donald T.”, the first person identified as autistic by Leo Kanner, reflected the arc from medical curiosity to community acceptance—Donald lives in a supportive small town.
  • “We absolutely have found the guy...” (Zucker, 50:05)
• Hope, Therapy, and Social Inclusion:
  • Research is rapidly progressing but splintering; science may find “many, many kinds of autisms." (Donvan, 51:48)
  • The biggest need is not a cure but social acceptance, dignity, and inclusion.
  • Zucker’s account of her son's airport ordeal illustrates abiding societal hurdles—“We really have a lot of work to do on the most basic level of awareness.” (Zucker, 53:00)
• Notable Quotes:
  • "If our book has an argument, it's that society needs to find a better way not to be jerks towards individuals with autism, find a space for them, a place for them in society, make it easier." (Donvan, 52:43)
  • "As a society, we really. There are pockets of acceptance and mostly with kids. ... My son's 21 now and they wouldn't have stopped him as a kid, but as a six foot skinny guy who doesn't shave very well, people are freaked out." (Zucker, 54:25)

Timestamps of Major Segments

• 00:29 – Father Pfleger profile begins
• 05:16 – Pfleger’s funeral oratory for "Cartoon"
• 06:07 – On violence and responsibility in the community
• 13:17 – Larry David reads “Missed Connections for A Holes”
• 17:01 – Judd Apatow interview at Comedy Cellar
• 21:01 – Apatow on Cosby and personal responsibility
• 27:03 – Discussion of his Netflix show “Love”
• 33:26 – Edmund White interview
• 37:11 – White reads from “Our Young Man”
• 43:50 – Autism: Donvan & Zucker join Remnick
• 46:26 – “Falling off a cliff” at age 21 for care
• 49:12 – Donald Triplett (“patient zero”) and his town
• 51:48 – Genetics, therapy, and the quest for acceptance

Tone and Style

The episode is a blend of documentary depth, comic relief, and heartfelt conversation, varying from the urgent and inspirational (Father Pfleger) to acerbic (Larry David), introspective (Judd Apatow and Edmund White), and advocacy-driven (Donvan & Zucker).

Further Reading & Credits

• Evan Osnos’ profile of Father Pfleger at newyorkerradio.org
• Karen Zucker & John Donvan’s book: In a Different Key: The Story of Autism
• Edmund White’s novel: Our Young Man
• Judd Apatow’s Netflix series: Love
  Produced by: Emily Bottin, Ave Carrillo, Rhiannon Corby, Jill Duboff, Karen Frillman, David Krasnow, Sarah Nix, Michael Rayfield, Paul Schneider, Stephen Valentine, and others.
  Music: Meryl Garbus of Tune-Yards