The New Yorker Radio Hour – Episode 53: “Putting Trump in the White House, Playing Andrew Bird in the O.R.”

Date: October 21, 2016
Host: David Remnick
Featuring: Roger Stone, Max Boot, Sean Wilentz, Amy Davidson, Atul Gawande, Andrew Bird, Evan Osnos (moderator)

Overview

This special episode, recorded live at the New Yorker Festival, is split into two engaging segments:

• Part 1: A prescient panel discussion, moderated by Evan Osnos, on what a Donald Trump presidency could mean for America, held just weeks before the 2016 election and at the peak of its unpredictability.
• Part 2: An intimate conversation between New Yorker medical writer/surgeon Atul Gawande and singer-songwriter Andrew Bird, discussing music, creativity, medicine, and mortality, including live performance.

Part 1: Imagining the First Term of President Trump

(00:28–23:24)

Main Theme

The panel takes the prospect of a Trump presidency seriously, asking: If the unthinkable happens and Donald Trump is elected, what would America look like, both domestically and globally?

Panelists:

• Evan Osnos (moderator, New Yorker writer)
• Roger Stone (Trump surrogate and political strategist)
• Max Boot (national security analyst, lifelong Republican dissenter of Trump)
• Sean Wilentz (Princeton historian)
• Amy Davidson (New Yorker political columnist)

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Republican Party’s Crisis & Trump’s Power

• Max Boot expresses heartbreak over the GOP, breaking his lifelong voting streak to support Clinton:

  “That streak will be broken in a month because I will vote for Hillary Clinton without any hesitation.” (02:45)

• Roger Stone frames the election as a “national crisis,” not just a campaign, due to total polarization:

  “There is no common ground.” (03:13)

2. Executive Power & the Dangers of a Trump Presidency

• Max Boot highlights the president’s sweeping authority, warning that Trump could drastically alter foreign policy, specifically NATO:

  “He could destroy NATO ... All he has to do is come out and say, I will not honor our commitments... As commander in chief, he has the ultimate authority and he will exercise it.” (04:33)

• Amy Davidson cautions about Trump’s potential executive overreach, referencing historical Supreme Court decisions such as Korematsu:

  "Within the context of war, you can treat different citizens differently depending on their backgrounds... something that will be a great concern under President Trump." (07:00)

3. Election Legitimacy & Conspiracy

• Roger Stone expresses skepticism about election integrity:

  “I'm more concerned about election rigging. If the Russians can hack and rig a machine...” (05:49)

• Max Boot accuses Trump of racist insinuations regarding poll watching:

  “What Trump is saying seems to be pretty not so coded racism…” (06:28)

4. Cabinet Prospects & Republican Responsibility

• Stone predicts trouble for prominent GOP names rumored as cabinet picks, advocating for anti-establishment appointees:

  “I would hope that he would select people who are not neocons, people who are not connected to the two party duopoly and the 30 years of bad decision making...” (10:49)

• Max Boot and Amy Davidson see confirming Merrick Garland as the Supreme Court nominee as an act of GOP responsibility:

  “I think that the Republicans would be well advised to confirm Judge Garland, who is a pretty moderate liberal.” (11:47)

5. Russia, Putin, and Trump

• Max Boot notes that the DNC hacks were, with high confidence, orchestrated by Russia:

  “Not some random 400 pound couch potato ... but was in fact done by Russia using WikiLeaks and Julian Assange as a front...” (12:44)

• Amy Davidson suggests focusing less on blaming Russia and more on understanding U.S. political discontent:

  "If we talk about Putin fixing the election and fixate on that too much, it's ... a way of avoiding the question of why so many Americans do support Donald Trump." (14:27)

6. Political Culture and GOP Responsibility

• Amy Davidson dives into Trump’s long history of bigotry, connecting today’s crisis to GOP actions:

  “Who Donald Trump was, not in terms of the tackiness, not in terms of the crudeness, in terms of the raw racism, was clear to a lot of New Yorkers about ... the Central Park Five.” (16:37)

7. Populism and the Future

• Davidson identifies a global pattern:

  “This surge of populism here is not isolated... We’ve seen a surge of this kind of anti-immigrant racist language in France...” (21:16)

• She underscores the need for both parties to genuinely listen and engage:

  “Maybe listen is a better word than talk … because there is something happening.” (21:41)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Roger Stone, on conceding the election:

  “He should, unless there is any refutable evidence to the contrary.” (05:59)

• Max Boot, on Trump and war:

  “This is a guy who’s actually said, I love war, I want it. I’m always sorry I didn’t get a purple heart.” (15:38)

• Amy Davidson, on Trump’s legacy in GOP:

  “I resist the idea ... that Donald Trump is a complete alien force who’s descended on the Republican Party.” (17:53)

Segment Timestamps

• Trump panel begins: 00:28
• Executive power concerns (NATO): ~04:33
• Election legitimacy debates: ~05:22
• GOP accountability (Garland discussion): ~11:36
• Russia and the campaign: ~12:44
• Political culture analysis: ~16:16
• Populism and international parallels: ~21:16
• Segment ends: 23:24

Part 2: Andrew Bird and Atul Gawande — Music, Medicine, and Life

(26:20–54:12)

Main Theme

A unique crossroads conversation between acclaimed musician Andrew Bird and surgeon-writer Atul Gawande, exploring the creative process, personal vulnerability, and the surprising overlap between music and medicine.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Finding a Path in Music

• Bird’s musical journey began with Suzuki violin at age 4, without seeing music as a profession:

  “It was my mom’s idea... I still don’t [see it as a job].” (27:35)

• Bird describes musical exploration, chafing at rigid classical traditions in college in favor of improvisation and eclectic influences:

  “I want to bring improvisation back to classical music. And they’re like, no, just do the program.” (30:00)

2. Whistling, Looping, and Solo Performance

• Bird on including whistling in his music:

  “I whistle nonstop. If I’m not eating, talking or sleeping, I’m whistling... I didn’t think to put that on a record until Swimming Hour.” (31:14)

• The loop pedal as a tool for engaging live audiences:

  “Just trying to use everything at my disposal to keep people’s attention … fill my lungs with air and just hold a note until people stopped their conversations...” (32:16)

3. Songwriting: Between Obscurity and Directness

• Bird and Gawande discuss the balance between accessibility and complexity, paralleling The New Yorker’s editorial style:

  Bird: “My approach ... has generally been, yeah, a little bit perceived as maybe opaque... but it’s there for you if you want to dig into it.” (33:08)

4. “Puma” — Music Reflects Medicine

• Gawande shares how Bird’s deeply personal song “Puma” mirrored his experience as a surgeon:

  “As soon as I heard that line, I’m an endocrine surgeon. I do thyroid cancer care. And I’m like, this is a song about thyroid cancer.” (35:19)

• Bird describes chronicling his wife’s battle with cancer, and how the song explores both fear and resilience:

  “How could I go ahead and make another record and have gone through what we went through without and completely omit these things that were so real?” (36:24)

5. Artistic Vulnerability

• Gawande on the importance of vulnerability in both art and medicine:

  “Being that direct is not something that you have wanted to do before. And I was really struck by your letting it hang out there and be that personal.” (35:19)

• Bird reflects on leaving the ambiguity behind for emotional directness:

  “I paused for sure working on this song ... but basically, the song is about how my wife handled this really scary thing right after we had a kid.” (36:24)

6. Mortality, Cancer, and Meaning

• Bird muses on cancer as an existential reality:

  “Does cancer have a purpose? There seems to be some genetic ... Is there some reason cancer exists?” (38:45)

• Gawande responds, grounding the conversation in medical science and philosophical acceptance:

  “Your DNA undergoes mutations all the time, we generate a cancer cell almost every day, and your body clears it out ... It is one of the few ways in which we’re aware of our fragility.” (38:45)

7. Creating Connection through Song

• Bird and Gawande talk about the surprising reach and resonance of art, especially when rooted in something deeply personal.

8. “Valleys of the Young” — The Layers in Songwriting

• Bird reveals the song’s complexity, writing about parental love, growing older, and the hidden struggles beneath the surface:

  “It imagines two parents that are going to the aid of their adult child who’s just tried to commit suicide... so that was kind of a sucker punch in the song...” (41:57)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Bird on the challenges of honesty:

  “How could I go ahead and make another record and have gone through what we went through without ... these things that were so real and pervasive and just visceral?” (36:24)

• Gawande’s reflections on fragility:

  “It is one of the few ways in which we’re aware of our fragility… we’re still animal, mortal beings.” (39:52)

Segment Timestamps

• Conversation begins: 26:20
• Bird discusses his musical childhood: 27:35
• Whistling and looping performance: 31:11
• The making of “Puma”: 34:15–36:24
• On cancer and mortality: 38:45
• On “Valleys of the Young”: 41:57
• Segment ends: 43:35

Live Performances by Andrew Bird

• “Capsized” (46:37–50:27): Bird delivers an energetic solo performance, showcasing his unique use of violin, guitar, and looping.

• “Left Handed Kisses” (51:42–54:12): Bird closes the episode with an atmospheric, poetic ballad.

Summary Takeaways

• The Trump panel was a remarkably candid and sometimes tense exploration of what was, at the time, an extraordinary political possibility, with panelists warning of broad executive power, the fragility of American institutions, and the dangers of conspiracy, racism, and foreign influence.
• The Andrew Bird/Atul Gawande segment offered an unusual intersection of arts and sciences, with honest reflection on how personal crises, especially illness, become embedded into art and serve to connect performer, listener, and even practitioner.
• The episode ultimately showcased The New Yorker’s ability to foster deep, challenging, and empathetic conversations at the seams of politics, culture, and personal vulnerability—refusing easy answers, but offering much to ponder.

Recommended listening for a provocative, thoughtful interweaving of politics in crisis and the healing/connecting power of art.