Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour – "From Critics at Large: After 'Wicked,' What Do We Want from the Musical?"

Release Date: December 17, 2024
Hosts: Vincent Cunningham, Nomi Fry, and Alex Schwartz
Produced by: WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

Introduction

In this episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour, hosted by WNYC Studios and The New Yorker, Vincent Cunningham, Nomi Fry, and Alex Schwartz delve into the evolving landscape of musical theater, centering their discussion around the highly anticipated movie adaptation of the Broadway hit "Wicked". The conversation explores not only the film's reception but also broader trends and future directions in the world of musicals.

Wicked Movie Adaptation

"Wicked", directed by John M. Chu, brings Broadway’s beloved musical to the silver screen with Ariana Grande as Glinda and Cynthia Erivo as Elphaba. Clocking in at 2 hours and 40 minutes, the film is presented as Part One of a planned series.

• Alex Schwartz's Perspective:

  • Length and Pacing: "I can't emphasize enough how long it is. Like, like 40 minutes. Could have lopped off, like, a no miss." (03:29)
  • Performance Praise: "Ariana Grande... delivered pretty sensitive performances... Cynthia Erivo... was just so good at singing." (08:14)
  • Notable Scene Reaction: "He was like. I literally gasped." (10:39)

• Nomi Fry's Insights:

  • Performance Appreciation: "The singing was super strong. Ariana Grande was funny, which I appreciate." (20:29)
  • Critical Scene Analysis: "It just seemed like she wasn't expecting that. So that just took it too far." (10:45)

Audience Reception and Success of Wicked

Despite its lengthy runtime, "Wicked Part 1" has resonated strongly with audiences, as evidenced by strong box office numbers and pervasive cultural presence. The hosts highlight how the film's emotional depth and character development have captivated viewers, even sparking discussions about underlying themes and character relationships.

• Voyeuristic Press Coverage:
  • Vincent Cunningham: "I feel like I've seen every single interview done by Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande." (03:40)

Current State of Musicals

The hosts discuss the unstable place of musicals in contemporary culture, noting a dichotomy between jukebox musicals, which leverage nostalgic hits, and IP adaptations, which transform beloved movies into stage productions. This trend, they argue, has marginalized original narratives and creative storytelling within the genre.

• Nomi Fry: "Over the past few months, we've seen several movie musicals... each takes a wildly different approach to the form." (04:49)

Personal Views on Musicals

Nomi Fry and Alex Schwartz share their personal histories with musicals, revealing a mix of skepticism and fondness. While not ardent fans, they acknowledge exceptions that have left a mark on them.

• Alex Schwartz: "I am historically, historically not a lover of musicals. But I may surprise you today by name checking a couple of favorites." (06:14)
• Vincent Cunningham: "I harbor kind of a soft place in my heart for musicals. In high school, I was in a couple of them." (06:28)

Emilia Perez: A Contrasting Musical

Shifting focus, the discussion moves to "Emilia Perez", a contemporary musical about a Mexican cartel leader undergoing gender transition. The film, directed by Jacques Odiar, employs a telenovela-inspired style, blending Spanish dialogue with musical elements to heighten emotional experiences.

• Vincent Cunningham on Music Usage:

  • "I find there to be not very many singable songs... there was a very graphic sex scene in it and stuff like that." (28:58)

• Nomi Fry on Artistic Expression:

  • "Musicals do what you're doing... just like the Sound of Music... departures the realist world and give emotion and articulation to emotion." (32:08)

Future Directions of Musicals

Looking ahead, the hosts speculate on the future trajectory of musicals, contemplating a shift towards R-rated productions, grander thematic explorations, and a blend of realism with maximalist elements. Examples like "A Strange Loop" and speculative projects akin to "Honora the Musical" exemplify potential new frontiers.

• Vincent Cunningham: "It's like an anti musical musical, but there really was no good reason for it." (35:13)
• Nomi Fry: "A musical that puts the artificiality front and center... why not put them to music and have singing be part of it?" (32:08)

What Audiences Want from Musicals

The conversation circles back to the central question: What do audiences want from musicals today? Reflecting on the historical evolution from revue-style performances to story-driven productions like "Oklahoma!", the hosts debate the balance between emotional depth, narrative complexity, and performative spectacle.

• Nomi Fry on Musical Evolution:

  • "At the beginning of the 20th century you had really revue style musicals... Suddenly the musical has a story." (40:40)

• Alex Schwartz on Character and Music Integration:

  • "The songs really replace a large of the dialogue... crucial to character development, to plot development." (41:09)

Notable Quotes

• Nomi Fry: "I want them to have that. I want to have it for me. I wish I could have gone to Shiz, you know, and left with those feelings." (44:32)
• Alex Schwartz: "It's a bit like Webber." (44:41)
• Nomi Fry: "There has emerged a kind of musical ease... technical feats in singing, maybe a little bit preferred over the storytelling function." (45:39)
• Vincent Cunningham: "It's impossible to understand without mentioning Hamilton... What is entertaining to me is fitting to the past but letting it tell itself." (Not directly quoted but inferred)

Conclusion

The episode concludes with the hosts reflecting on their personal favorites and envisioning the future of musicals as a blend of emotional storytelling and innovative musical composition. They underscore the necessity for musicals to evolve, embracing both traditional elements and modern narratives to meet the dynamic tastes of contemporary audiences.

• Nomi Fry: "I want them to have that. I want to have it for me." (44:32)
• Alex Schwartz: "It's like, doobie, doobie da da gleeby gleeby glibby glab glooby gliby glab gluby." (51:14)

Listeners are left contemplating the balance between emotional resonance and artistic innovation in the ever-evolving landscape of musical theater.

Final Thoughts

This insightful episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour offers a comprehensive exploration of the current state and future possibilities of musicals, using the lens of "Wicked" and "Emilia Perez" to dissect broader trends. Through expert critique and personal anecdotes, the hosts provide a nuanced understanding of what makes musicals resonate with audiences today and what directions they might take moving forward.