Podcast Summary: Germany’s Traumatized Kriegskinder Speak Out

Podcast: The New Yorker Radio Hour
Host: David Remnick (with reporting/interview by Burkhard Bilger)
Guests: Sabine Bode (journalist and author)
Date: May 9, 2023

Overview:

This episode explores the lasting psychological and societal effects of World War II on the so-called Kriegskinder—Germans who experienced the war as children. With insight from journalist and author Sabine Bode and New Yorker staff writer Burkhard Bilger, the conversation traces how war trauma was long silenced in Germany, how families grappled with shame and guilt, and how, only recently, have these stories begun to be told publicly. The episode also delves into Bode and Bilger’s own family histories and examines contemporary efforts in Germany to heal through practices like Familienaufstellung (family constellation therapy).

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining the “Kriegskinder” Generation

• Kriegskinder ("children of war") refers to Germans, like Bilger’s parents, who were children during WWII (00:53–01:00).
  • They occupy a “psychological in-between” space—bearing guilt from the war without responsibility or agency in its atrocities (01:00–01:23).
• Many families avoided discussing wartime roles, especially involvement in the Nazi party (01:23–02:10).

2. Family Secrets & Discovering the Complexity of the Past

• Personal stories: Bilger relates how he only learned late that his grandfather was a fervent Nazi party member and schoolteacher who initially enforced Nazi policies, but was later exonerated by villagers for collaborating with the resistance (02:10–03:55).
• The discovery shifted Bilger from “guilty embarrassment” to confusion and intrigue:
  • “How could a person be both those things?” (03:54–03:55)

3. The Breaking of the Silence

• Taboo against discussing German suffering: The trauma of German children was not spoken of for decades, partially due to the larger narrative of German guilt and not wanting to focus on German suffering after the war (04:07–05:54).
• Sabine Bode’s contribution: Her oral histories, starting about 20 years ago, were pivotal in opening up discussion about the Kriegskinder (04:07–05:19).
  • She notes that in the 1990s, “nobody was interested” in stories about German war children, and editors at the time resisted such narratives due to their own generational ties to WWII (05:19–06:14).

4. How Kriegskinder Spoke About Their Experiences

• Many Kriegskinder told “funny” or adventurous stories—or were completely numb and emotionless, recounting events as if “reading from a telephone book” (06:24–06:57).
• “The numbness remained for many...until they got old.” —Sabine Bode (06:56)

5. Sabine Bode’s Personal Reckoning

• Bode researched her own family’s Nazi past after the fall of the Berlin Wall, which allowed access to archives (08:40–08:53).
  • She discovered that her father and grandfather betrayed a Jewish relative, leading to his murder at Auschwitz (08:59–09:29).
  • Despite the horror, she described the confirmation as a “relief”—it wasn’t worse, and it corroborated her suspicions (09:36–10:14):
    • “All the relatives lied to me. That was really not nice.” (09:58–10:14)
• A common anxiety for postwar generations: “My God, was my father a mass murderer?” —Sabine Bode (10:23)

6. Generational Differences in Postwar Experience

• Bode contrasts the experiences of Kriegskinder (born during the war) with Nachkriegskinder (born after):
  • Wartime children grew up surrounded by stressed adults; those born after experienced warmth and were seen as symbols of hope (11:40–12:29).
    • “I was carrying the hope, you know, for a better life.” —Sabine Bode (12:24)

7. Trauma Stories and Their Long-Term Impact

• Bode recounts a powerful story of a woman who, as a child, missed entering a bomb shelter, was left alone during an air raid, and concealed this trauma for decades (13:18–14:39).
• This woman’s memory problems persisted until late in life, improving only as she reconstructed her childhood (14:44–15:15).
  • “She started to reconstruct her childhood, and...enjoying her age then because...now I’m learning all the time.” (14:44–15:09)

8. Universal Nature of War Trauma

• Bode broadens the discussion:
  • “It is not only in Germany...We find the same stories in Poland and in Russia...Cambodia...South America. That is a universal issue.” (15:35–16:29)
  • Parents avoid confronting children’s trauma, hoping silence means healing, but unrecognized trauma is hardest to overcome.

9. Familienaufstellung: Group Therapy and Family History

• Description: Family constellation therapy is popular in Germany; participants act out family histories in a group (16:29–17:55).
• Purpose:
  • Sometimes new memories or insights emerge; it helps start a process but is not a “cure.”
  • “War doesn’t end when the weapons are silent, but war does infect narrow relationships...” —Sabine Bode (18:35–19:05)
  • Therapy often results in emotional outpouring (“crying and mourning”), which can be necessary for those starting to face their family’s past (18:55–19:15).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“How could a person be both those things?”
—Burkhard Bilger, on reconciling his grandfather’s wartime actions (03:54)

“The numbness remained for many of them until they got old.”
—Sabine Bode, on Kriegskinder’s emotional suppression (06:56)

“All the relatives lied to me. That was really not nice.”
—Sabine Bode, about the family’s silence regarding their crime (09:58)

“My God, was my father a mass murderer?”
—Sabine Bode, on the postwar generation’s haunting anxiety (10:23)

“I was carrying the hope...for a better life.”
—Sabine Bode, on being a Nachkriegskind (12:24)

“It is not only in Germany...that is a universal issue.”
—Sabine Bode, on war trauma’s international relevance (15:35)

“War doesn’t end when the weapons are silent, but war does infect narrow relationships...”
—Sabine Bode (18:35)

Important Segment Timestamps

• Kriegskinder definition and family guilt: 00:53–01:23
• Bilger’s grandfather’s complex history: 02:10–03:55
• When Germans began discussing trauma: 04:07–05:54
• Sabine Bode on numbness among the war children: 06:24–06:57
• Bode on discovering family’s betrayal: 08:59–09:29
• Relief in confirming family history: 09:36–10:14
• Generational differences (Kriegskinder vs Nachkriegskinder): 11:40–12:29
• Story of trauma and memory loss: 13:18–15:15
• Universality of war trauma: 15:35–16:29
• Familienaufstellung and emotional healing: 16:29–19:15

Conclusion

This episode offers a raw, deeply personal account of Germany’s slow reckoning with the trauma of its wartime generation. Through Sabine Bode’s pioneering oral histories and Burkhard Bilger’s family inquiry, it reveals how unspoken trauma finds its way across generations, and how speaking—finally—can begin the process of healing. The lessons, as Bode notes, apply far beyond Germany: the legacy of war on families, memory, and society is a painfully universal story.