How Bob Menendez Came By His Gold Bars

Summary

The New Yorker Radio Hour: How Bob Menendez Came By His Gold Bars

Episode Release Date: March 10, 2025
Host: David Remnick
Produced by: WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

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Introduction and Context

In the March 10, 2025 episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour, host David Remnick delves into the dramatic fall of Bob Menendez, a former New Jersey senator renowned for his political prowess and dubbed "Gold Bar Bob" due to the lavish caches of gold and cash discovered in his residence. This episode explores Menendez's rise to power, the corruption charges that led to his downfall, and the broader implications for political integrity in the United States.

Bob Menendez’s Background and Political Career

Bob Menendez's journey began in Union City, New Jersey, where he was raised by Cuban immigrant parents. His early life was marked by determination and activism. As recounted by reporter Nancy Solomon, Menendez's commitment to public service was evident when, at 19, he spearheaded a petition drive to change the school board, eventually running for office at the age of 20.

Vincent Cunningham narrates:

"He was the first Latino in New Jersey elected as mayor, state legislator, and member of Congress. That's what makes this case and the cartoonish details of gold bars and stacks of cash squirreled away in his home so mystifying to those who knew and respected him."
[04:06]

Menendez's political career was characterized by his tenacity and loyalty. Nicholas Charavolotti, a former state legislator, recalls Menendez's fierce defense of local interests:

"He got up, kicked his chair over, and basically told them, there's no freaking way you're getting this land. That was the moment that, you know, quite frankly, I was like, that's the type of guy I want representing me."
[05:41]

Despite his aggressive political style, Menendez made significant legislative impacts, including opposing the Iraq War and voting against the confirmation of Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court, actions that showcased his independent judgment over political expediency.

The Corruption Case

Bob Menendez's political career took a dramatic turn when he was indicted on corruption charges involving substantial bribes from a wealthy Florida eye doctor. The prosecution's case hinged on the discovery of gold bars and large sums of cash stored in Menendez's home, which became emblematic of the alleged corruption.

During the trial, Menendez maintained his innocence, asserting that the investigation was politically motivated:

"President Trump is right? This process is political and it's corrupted to the core."
[01:56]

Defenders argue that Menendez's actions were within the bounds of normal political fundraising and networking, while critics see the evidence as incontrovertible proof of corruption.

Key Evidence: Gold Bars and Cash

A pivotal aspect of the corruption case was the physical evidence amassed against Menendez. Prosecutors presented gold bars and substantial cash reserves as indicators of illicit enrichment. These findings were not just financial discrepancies but symbolic of the depth of the alleged corruption.

During the trial, the visual of Menendez's opulent lifestyle contrasted sharply with his public persona as a dedicated public servant. This dichotomy fueled public and political outrage, leading to his eventual sentencing.

Trial Proceedings and Defense

The trial was marked by intense legal battles and high-profile testimonies. Bob Menendez's defense focused on portraying him as a victim of a politically charged prosecution. He publicly denounced the process as part of a broader corruption within the system:

"Prosecutors at the Justice Department don't know the difference between friendship and corruption and have chosen to twist my duties as a senator and my friendship into something that is improper."
[10:22]

Experts, like Chara Torres Spellisi, a Constitutional Law Professor, suggested that Menendez's plea to President Trump hinted at a possible pardon, drawing parallels to Trump's history of pardoning individuals accused of corruption:

"It's hard to know who Trump will pardon next. One of the more recent pardons was for the former governor of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich. He was a Democrat, so I'm not sure whether the Democratic label matters so much to Trump."
[23:34]

Nadine Menendez and Personal Life

Bob Menendez's personal life also came under scrutiny during the trial. His relationship with Nadine Arslanian, whom he proposed to in front of the Taj Mahal, was scrutinized for potential financial entanglements and influence. Nadine faced her own set of charges, including involvement in the bribery scheme, further complicating the narrative of Menendez's corruption.

Vincent Cunningham highlights:

"Nadine was spotted with cast members of the Real Housewives of New Jersey... Twenty months after they began dating, Bob proposed to Nadine in front of the Taj Mahal."
[16:37]

The prosecution used voicemails from Nadine as evidence, suggesting a closer financial and emotional bond that may have facilitated the corruption.

Reactions and Potential Pardons

The episode also explores the reactions within the political sphere, particularly the intertwined fate of Bob Menendez and New York City Mayor Eric Adams. Shortly after Menendez's sentencing, the Department of Justice under President Trump ordered the dismissal of corruption charges against Mayor Adams, raising questions about political influence and reciprocity.

Constitutional Law Professor Chara Torres Spellisi commented:

"As someone who's a constitutional law professor, this is really irksome. It looks like there was an offer of a quid pro quo from the Adams team to Trump's DOJ."
[22:42]

Speculation about a potential pardon for Menendez looms large, especially in light of Trump's precedent of pardoning individuals accused of corruption regardless of their political affiliations.

Conclusion and Implications

Bob Menendez's case stands as a stark example of political corruption in modern American politics. His sentencing to 11 years in prison marks the first instance of a U.S. senator being imprisoned for crimes committed in office in over four decades. This episode underscores the complexities of political integrity, the challenges of prosecuting high-profile corruption cases, and the potential for political maneuvering to influence legal outcomes.

Brad Lawrence, Menendez's longtime consultant, expressed his confusion and disappointment:

"I don't want to be a Bob Menendez apologist... it is to me an inexplicable and tragic way to frame to go."
[25:13]

As the legal battles continue, with Nadine Menendez also pleading not guilty and awaiting trial, the full extent of the corruption case remains a contentious topic. The interplay between political power, legal accountability, and personal relationships continues to shape the narrative of Menendez's downfall.

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This detailed summary captures the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode, incorporating notable quotes and maintaining a natural flow to provide a comprehensive overview for those who haven’t listened.

Transcript

[Sponsor Announcement]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, Monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. WNYC Studios is supported by Carnegie hall, which presents upcoming piano recitals and concertos featuring Nobuyuki Tsuji, Leif Ova Anznes, Mitsuko Uchira and Evgeny Kissen this spring. Tickets and [e-mail] Piano.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Listener Support WNYC Studios.

[Alex Schwartz]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker.

[David Remnick]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. In the through the looking glass world of Donald Trump, he's the guy who drained the swamp of corruption even as he orders the Department of Justice to drop corruption cases and stop investigating new ones. The situation with New York City Mayor Eric Adams is a case in point. The Justice Department suggested they would drop serious federal charges if Adams would just assist the feds on the immigration issue. The mayor's attorney insisted there was never any deal. But even so, a pack of federal prosecutors quit their jobs in disgust. So this, too, is surprising, but maybe not too surprising. Weeks ago, Bob Menendez, the former New Jersey senator known as Gold Bar Bob for the golden cash tucked away in his house, was sentenced to 11 years in prison on corruption charges. Menendez walked out of the courtroom and directly made a plea to guess who.

[Bob Menendez]

President Trump is right? This process is political and it's corrupted to the core. I hope President Trump cleans up the cesspool and restores the integrity to the system.

[Constitutional Law Professor]

Are you gonna ask Trump for a political senator?

[Vincent Cunningham]

You're a Democrat. The case was brought by Democrats. How is this a witch hunt?

[Nicholas Charavolotti]

How is this a witch hunt?

[David Remnick]

How did Bob Menendez, who voted to impeach Donald Trump, end up begging him for a get out of jail card? We turn to WNYC's reporter Nancy Solomon, who's been covering New Jersey politics for many years. So Nancy ipso facto, knows a thing or two about corruption.

[Vincent Cunningham]

One morning In June of 2024, during the trial of Bob Menendez, I was sitting in the hallway finishing a cup of coffee outside the courtroom. There was only one other person there standing next to the bench, looking out at the spectacular Manhattan view from the 23rd floor. Bob Menendez. He was singing, and it was killing me that I couldn't record it in.

[Tracey Tully]

That Courthouse, you have no phones, nobody has recording devices. So they developed this sort of cocoon, like space where the defendants, the reporters, the lawyers, we were all kind of existing together for nine weeks.

[Vincent Cunningham]

This is Tracey Tully. She's a reporter for the New York Times, and she was in court almost every day.

[Tracey Tully]

He would sing during breaks in court, sometimes in the courtroom, often outside in that vestibule that you described. And I remember riding down an elevator with a crowd of people. At one point in one of the lawyers said, I think it's a form of prayer.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Bob Menendez grew up in Union City. His parents had come from Cuba. His father was a carpenter and a gambler and his mother a factory seamstress. He's often told the story about how he qualified for an honors program when he was a senior in high school, but he couldn't afford the books.

[Bob Menendez]

And I couldn't understand for the life of me in a public high school that I'd be barred from being in the honors program.

[Vincent Cunningham]

This is from a public TV interview in 2012.

[Bob Menendez]

So I created such a ruckus that they gave me the books, told me to shut up and put me in the honors program. But I didn't feel right about that because I had friends who had the ability and the grades and not the money. So I started a petition drive at 19 to change the school board, put a referendum on the ballot, passed a referendum at 19, and then ran at the age of 20, the first school board elections in my hometown.

[Vincent Cunningham]

It wasn't long before Menendez developed a brand.

[Bob Menendez]

I grew up in a tough neighborhood. We had a bully in the neighborhood.

[Vincent Cunningham]

The fighter you don't want to mess with. And this stuck with him from the Union City school board in 1974 to his time as top Democrat on the Senate Committee on foreign relations. Nearly 50 years later, I never got whacked again.

[Nicholas Charavolotti]

I didn't really get to know him until I went to work for the city of Bayonne.

[Vincent Cunningham]

This is Nicholas Charavolotti, former state legislator.

[Nicholas Charavolotti]

Been in and around Hudson county. Politics since I was about 14 years old. We had a meeting in City hall at a.

[Vincent Cunningham]

It was a long time ago. Chara Vellotti was working for the city of Bayonne. The small, working class town was in a fight over a piece of land that had been an old army installation.

[Nicholas Charavolotti]

And truth be told, Nancy, I was way over my head.

[Vincent Cunningham]

And Char Volati ended up in a meeting with Menendez, who was then the local congressman.

[Nicholas Charavolotti]

We had been making the case that the army and the Port Authority were not Dealing with us truthfully. And the moment that the army reiterated the lie to him, I remember as clear as day, he got up, kicked his chair over, and basically told them, there's no freaking way you're getting this land. That was the moment that, you know, quite frankly, I was like, that's the type of guy I want representing me.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I mean, when he was young, Menendez stood up to his political mentor, a popular mayor who ended up getting convicted for allowing town contracts to go to a business with connections to the mob. Menendez even had to wear a bulletproof vest into the courthouse. Chara Vellotti was impressed with Menendez, and he ended up going to work for him.

[Nicholas Charavolotti]

And, you know, he had a very different style than I did. We got into an argument once. He wanted me to deliver a message to an elected official, but he wanted me to deliver it in his manner. And I delivered the message in my manner. And he actually said to me, I thought I was hiring a Rottweiler, not a. Not a poodle.

[Vincent Cunningham]

A representative for Senator Menendez said, that story is not true. And what would you say? Like, some of the elements that make up his success?

[Nicholas Charavolotti]

So I think intelligence was one. Two was work ethic. I mean, he just would work all the time, especially back then. He was a beast. Three was loyalty, right? Because once he was your friend, he would stick with you, even if it was against his interest.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Menendez opposed the confirmation of Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court, despite the large number of Italians in his district that supported the New Jersey native. And he voted against the Iraq war.

[Nicholas Charavolotti]

Being from Hudson county in New Jersey, it was, if you remember, it was like, let's just do it. And it's like, look, politically it's expedient just to vote for it, right? I mean, people want revenge. And like Bob Menendez, despite sort of the intensity of his personality in that moment, and this is, like, repeated throughout his career, could sit back and say, okay, but I looked at everything. It's not there.

[Vincent Cunningham]

But there is a subset of people, a large one, who believe Menendez has been corrupt from the beginning. They don't buy the hero testifying against the machine narrative. Jay Booth used to be a political operative in Hudson county who opposed Menendez from the start. Booth says, look at the charges in the current case where Menendez tried to pressure state and federal prosecutors. He says that's part of a long pattern. Menendez in his larger than life quest for political power, as I watched, it was always the first priority, seemed to always be judges and prosecutors trying to Appoint people that are going to protect him and harm his enemies in the criminal justice system. Booth says he witnessed Menendez in action many years ago. He happened to walk into the kitchen of Puccini's, a legendary restaurant on Jersey City's west side that was a hangout for politicos. And there at the stainless steel prep counter was a meeting happening, presumably on the down low. I saw Menendez, who was then a congressman, sitting in a corner in the kitchen where no one could see him having lunch with the then Hudson county prosecutor, which of course would be perceived as unethical, or more particularly, something they were eating in there so no one could see them clearly. Elected officials are not supposed to hold back channel meetings with prosecutors. A representative from Menendez says that one didn't happen. But either way, meals in a restaurant kitchen didn't seem to help Menendez the first time the feds came after him in 2015. Private jets, weekend getaways in the Dominican Republic, and hundreds of thousands of dollars. This case involved a wealthy Florida eye doctor who had been under investigation for Medicare fraud. The doctor had given Menendez expensive gifts and trips to the Dominican Republic and Paris. Menendez allegedly reached out to help the doctor's Medicare problems go away. He insisted the charges were unfair.

[Bob Menendez]

Prosecutors at the Justice Department don't know the difference between friendship and corruption and have chosen to twist my duties as a senator and my friendship into something that is improper.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Was it corruption or business as usual in Washington? It depends who you ask.

[Brad Lawrence]

Maybe I drank the Kool Aid, but I really thought it was sort of unfair. They were criminalizing behavior that maybe wasn't wonderful, but certainly didn't deserve a federal indictment.

[Vincent Cunningham]

This is Brad Lawrence. He creates messaging for political candidates.

[Brad Lawrence]

These are all Menendez files.

[Vincent Cunningham]

And Lawrence has worked for nearly every major Democratic candidate in New Jersey for the past 40 odd years. He worked for Menendez the longest. That's like 18 inches of files.

[Brad Lawrence]

Well, and there's boxes. I mean, don't forget, this goes on for since 1982.

[Vincent Cunningham]

And he was working for Menendez when the senator ran into trouble with the gifts from the eye doctor.

[Brad Lawrence]

I believe he legitimately felt he had done nothing wrong, certainly nothing illegal. And I think he was very angry about that. I know he was very angry about that. And I don't know that he moved.

[Vincent Cunningham]

On, but it's an interesting idea that was that a breaking point where he felt like, okay, they're going to treat me like this, that I'm going to really get everything I'm due. I'm going to, you know, I don't.

[Brad Lawrence]

Know was that literally transactional about it? But I have a feeling that it certainly made him feel like playing by the rules certainly didn't get him anything. And so you'd be angry. I mean, I think most people would be angry about being indicted and put through the wringer for something that they felt certainly didn't merit. That it's how you come out of that may be the more interesting question.

[Vincent Cunningham]

The case ended in a hung jury, and Menendez walked out of the courthouse defiant, as if he'd been entirely exonerated.

[Bob Menendez]

To those who were digging my political grave so that they could jump into my seat, I know who you are, and I won't forget you.

[Vincent Cunningham]

The trial was also a pretty pivotal time in the senator's personal life. He and his fiance broke up right before the trial began. And soon after the hung jury, he fell for someone new. He had met Nadine Arslanian at his usual breakfast spot, the IHOP in Union City. I just wanted to hear your voice. Voicemails from Nadine were entered as evidence in the second trial. I can't wait for you to hold my hand and go to sleep.

[David Remnick]

A message from Nadine Arslanian to then Senator Bob Menendez used by prosecutors as evidence. Our story continues in a moment. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour.

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[Vincent Cunningham]

I'm Vincent Cunningham.

[Alex Schwartz]

I'm Alex Schwartz.

[Vincent Cunningham]

And I'm Nomi Frye. And we're Critics at Large, the New Yorker's flagship culture podcasts. Flagship, flagship. Love that. We want to invite you to a special live event that's coming right up on March 11th at the bell House in Brooklyn.

[Nicholas Charavolotti]

We're doing a show about a classic conundrum for critics.

[Vincent Cunningham]

What happens when you write a review and you get it wrong?

[Alex Schwartz]

We will be looking back at some of the classic pieces of New Yorker criticism that may have missed the mark. Like, for example, a scathing review that declared the wizard of Oz a stinkeroo marred by eye straining Technicolor, not a stinkeroo. Oh, yes. And of course, we will also talk about critics who got it right as well.

[Vincent Cunningham]

So if you're in New York or if you feel like traveling, come see us live at the bell House on March 11th. You can buy [e-mail] we'll see you there.

[David Remnick]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. We're hearing the story today of Robert Menendez. He's the first senator or a former senator sentenced to prison for crimes in office in more than 40 years, which might tell you that political corrupt is extremely rare, or in fact, it might tell you how rarely corruption is prosecuted. WNYC's reporter Nancy Solomon has been explaining Menendez's rise as a powerful New Jersey Democrat and then his fall. The evidence in the trial included gold bars, literal gold bars, and heaps of cash that were squirreled away in the house he shared with his wife, Nadine, who is also being prosecuted in the case.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Nadine Arslanian was born in Beirut. Her parents were Armenian. They moved to New York in the late 1970s. She studied French culture and civilization at NYU and speaks French and Arabic. Nadine was a stay at home mom raising her kids in Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey, and she liked a certain lifestyle. She drove her kids to a private French school in Manhattan and has been spotted with cast members of the Real Housewives of New Jersey. By the time she met Bob Menendez, she was long divorced and by all accounts, it was a whirlwind romance. Twenty months after they began dating, Bob proposed to Nadine in front of the Taj Mahal. He's known for his crooning. And the the YouTube video of this one has been viewed 86,000 times. Oh my God. Nicholas Charvolatti, who recalled Menendez kicking his chair over in a meeting, understands what it might have felt like when Menendez began dating Nadine As a former elected official himself, he gets the financial strain. Unlike plenty of politicians, Menendez is a guy who has never had a lot of money.

[Nicholas Charavolotti]

I think that puts some pressure on you and causes you some doubts about what you should be earning. I think that does have an impact because you can't really do the things that I think other people can do.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Bob Menendez had a new girlfriend and Nadine needed money. She had financial problems and would soon face foreclosure of her home. Tracy Tully, the New York Times reporter, says the bribery case began with a friendship between Nadine and an Egyptian American who was just as broke as she was. One of the co defendants, Will Hanna.

[Tracey Tully]

Will Hanna is kind of a serial entrepreneur. He started a bunch of businesses and he lost his house in Bayonne. He's got no money. And he becomes friends with Nadine Arslanian, who becomes Nadine Menendez.

[Vincent Cunningham]

They both speak Arabic and were part of what you could call a lonely hearts club that often spent multiple nights a week hanging out in bur Bergen county restaurants.

[Tracey Tully]

And somewhere along the way, somebody comes up with the idea to create this halal certification company.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Halal Meat certification. These companies inspect meat butchering facilities to ensure that the process is done according to Muslim rules. It's like kosher, but it's halal. The Egyptian government chooses the businesses that certify meat imports into their country. And Will Hanna, Nadine's friend, was trying to work his connections in Egypt to get one of those contracts. But for a couple of years, prosecutors say he couldn't get any traction until Nadine started dating Menendez, the top Democrat of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. Hi, it's me calling my very handsome senator. And within weeks, Nadine asks Menendez for a favor that he meet with a high level Egyptian official. Just got off with the general. Since he has not met you before, he needs to have some kind of clearance from Egypt as to why he's meeting a US Senator out of his the embassy. And many meetings did happen. There were meetings with the Egyptian general and with Egyptian intelligence officers. Many of them included Hanna, the halal meat guy.

[Tracey Tully]

And, you know, trial testimony showed that then the company took off and ultimately won a monopoly. Hana's company was the gatekeeper to all of that product, so it made him a very wealthy man.

[Vincent Cunningham]

But Larry Lustberg, Hana's defense attorney, says his client was able to get the Egyptian monopoly on the strength of Hana's own connections and business acumen. He's appealing the conviction. I will go to my grave believing that the Government did not prove its case here. Regardless, Hana and another co defendant were convicted of bribing Menendez in part with the money made by the lucrative halal business. And the senator was convicted of three main things. One, he made calls to an official at the US Department of Agriculture to help Hanna maintain the monopoly. That's the quid pro quo, what he did for the bribes. Two, he also contacted state and federal prosecutors and complained about criminal investigations against two of the men paying him off. That's obstruction of justice. And three, the Egyptian government gave Hanna the monopoly. And Menendez, ranking member of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, hold on military aid to Egypt. That's the acting as a foreign agent charge. Menendez was convicted on all counts and resigned from the Senate. He's now on the verge of becoming the first senator to go to prison in more than 40 years. Or maybe not.

[Bob Menendez]

President Trump is right. This process is political and it's corrupted to the core.

[Vincent Cunningham]

When he emerged from the sentencing, Menendez made his direction pitched to Donald Trump that his prosecution is just as wrong as Trump's. That was January 29th of this year, and it seemed far fetched that Bob Menendez, a progressive who voted to impeach the president, would get a pardon from him. But two weeks later, Trump's Department of Justice ordered federal prosecutors in New York to drop their case against the Democratic mayor, Eric Adams.

[Constitutional Law Professor]

As someone who's a constitutional law professor, this is really irksome.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Chara Torres Spellisi teaches at the Stetson University College of Law in Florida. She writes about political corruption.

[Constitutional Law Professor]

It looks like there was a offer of a quid pro quo from the Adams team to Trump's doj.

[Vincent Cunningham]

What do you think about the possibility that Donald Trump may pardon Menendez?

[Constitutional Law Professor]

Well, it would fit a pattern of the Trump pardons. Both in his first term and early in his second term. He has had a habit of pardoning people who have violated anti corruption laws, whether they're white collar crime, anti corruption laws or campaign finance laws.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Some have argued that Menendez, because he is out of office and voted to impeach Trump, is unlikely to get a part pardon. But for Torres Spellsi, the President's history means all bets are off.

[Constitutional Law Professor]

It's hard to know who Trump will pardon next. One of the more recent pardons was for the former governor of Illinois, Rod Bogojevich. He was a Democrat, so I'm not sure whether the Democratic label matters so much to Trump. He seems much more interested in undermining anti corruption laws left, right and center.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Menendez has repeatedly denied wrongdoing. His lawyers aren't counting on a pardon and have said they'll appeal the conviction. And the current US Supreme Court, it might actually help.

[Constitutional Law Professor]

The Robert Supreme Court has been steadily deregulating corruption. They've done this both in white collar crime cases, in campaign finance cases.

[Vincent Cunningham]

So the outlook for Bob Menendez is not quite as bleak as it might seem despite facing 11 years in prison. But whether or not he receives a pardon or wins his appeal, it remains an epic collapse of what was a historic political career. He was the first in everything he did, first in his family to go to college, first Latino in New Jersey elected mayor, state legislator and member of Congress. That's what makes this case and the cartoonish details of gold bars and stacks of cash squirreled away in his home so mystifying to those who knew and respected him, like Brad Lawrence, his consultant who worked on nearly every one of his campaigns.

[Brad Lawrence]

I don't want to be a Bob Menendez apologist, particularly in light of how it ended, but I also have know a long history and a respect and affection for at least the first three quarters of his life, political life. I don't have the answer to it. I wish I did and I feel like I'm an idiot that I don't have the answer for it. But you know, it is to me an inexplicable and tragic way frame to go.

[David Remnick]

Robert Menendez was sentenced to 11 years in prison. He remains free so he can attend Nadine Menendez's trial. She also pleaded not guilty. There's more reporting on politics and crime from nancy [e-mail] that's the new Yorker Radio Hour for today. Thanks for listening. See you next time.

[Alex Schwartz]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Louis Mitchell and Jared Paul. This episode was produced by Max Balton, Adam Howard, David Krasnow, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell, Jared Paul and Ursula Sommer, with guidance from Emily Bottin and assistance from Michael May, David Gable, Alex Barish, Victor Guan and Alejandra Deckett.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Special thanks this week to the New Yorker's Alex Brady.

[Alex Schwartz]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Tsurina Endowment Fund.

[Sponsor Announcement]

WNYC Studios is supported by Carnegie hall, which presents upcoming piano recitals and concertos featuring Nobuyuki Tsuji, Leif Ova Anzness, Mitsuko Uchira and Evgeny Kissen. This spring, tickets and [e-mail] piano Chloe.

[Vincent Cunningham]

You know what I think the world really needs? What? Old fashioned. The people want it. The people have asked for it. The people are getting it. Yes, everyone's in luck. I'm Nicole Phelps, the director of Vogue Runway and I'm excited to announce that the Run through is coming to Tuesdays. The run through is now going to be twice a week, every Tuesday. Join me and the Vogue Runway team as we dig into the latest fashion news. Thursdays will still be Chloe and Shoma talking about the latest in fashion and culture per usual. And Tuesdays, more fashion, fashion, fashion. The run through with Vogue is available wherever you get your podcasts.