Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: Introducing: “In The Dark”
Date: March 9, 2023
Host: David Remnick
Guests: Madeleine Baran (Host, "In The Dark"), Samara Freemark (Managing Producer, "In The Dark")

Overview

This episode celebrates the acquisition of the acclaimed investigative podcast "In The Dark" by The New Yorker and Condé Nast. Host David Remnick introduces listeners to the backstory, mission, and impact of "In The Dark," discussing its first two trailblazing seasons and offering insights into the rigorous investigative journalism driving the show. Remnick is joined by "In The Dark" host Madeleine Baran and managing producer Samara Freemark, who reflect on their approach to storytelling, the power of investigative teams, and the evolving nature of their work as they tease their upcoming third season.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Origin Stories and Collaboration

• Meeting and Early Collaboration

  • Samara (audio documentary background) and Madeleine (investigative reporter) met at American Public Media’s documentary unit, intrigued by each other's skills and impactful work ([01:27]-[02:10]).
    • Notable quote:
      • "From the moment we started working on the same team, I was really scheming to meet Madeline because she had just come off of this really bombshell reporting project on sex abuse in the Catholic Church in Minnesota." — Samara Freemark [01:31]
  • Their partnership solidified during a pivotal walk in St. Paul, leading to the decision to pursue the Jacob Wetterling case, ultimately becoming season one.
    • "It was one of these walks that really altered the course of my career. In about 30 minutes, we had decided we're going to report this story... and we're going to create a podcast to do it." — Madeleine Baran [02:10]

• Strengths of Working in Teams

  • The myth of the lone investigative reporter is debunked: teamwork brings diverse skills (data analysis, public records, audio, etc.) and support necessary for tackling complex stories ([04:17]-[05:09]).
    • "There is this sort of myth of the solo investigative reporter... but in my experience, especially when you're working so deeply on a story... the value of having a team where you can bounce ideas off of them..." — Madeleine Baran [04:17]

Investigative Philosophy and Approach

• Reframing Familiar Stories

  • Their hallmark is probing stories the public thinks they know, uncovering overlooked questions or systemic failures. For the Wetterling case, they shifted focus from "what happened" to "why hasn’t this been solved?" ([05:09]-[06:33])
    • "No one had actually ever asked the question of why has this case not been solved? Which is truly an investigative question." — Samara Freemark [05:47]

• Responding to Sudden Developments

  • The confession in the Wetterling case just before the podcast launched forced them to rapidly rework their reporting, shifting from speculation to definitive conclusions about law enforcement's mistakes ([06:49]-[08:50]).
    • "We knew mistakes that law enforcement had made... But we didn't know what really happened. Now that we knew exactly what happened... we could say no, that specific mistake... was a pivotal error." — Madeleine Baran [07:30]

Season Two: The Curtis Flowers Case

• Selecting the Story and What Drew Them In

  • Thousands of tips poured in post-season one. The Curtis Flowers story stood out for its intersection of wrongful conviction and the unprecedented six trials for the same alleged crime ([09:31]-[10:56]).
    • "There was more to it than that. It was really the six times for the same crime thing that was really fascinating to us because it seemed to point at all of these larger questions..." — Samara Freemark [10:07]

• Exposing Prosecutorial Misconduct and Systemic Racism

  • Flowers' endless retrials stemmed from prosecutorial misconduct—specifically, the DA’s repeated exclusion of Black jurors ([11:01]-[13:12]).
    • "This was the ultimate kind of legal groundhog Day—excess of prosecutorial power run amok, where all of a sudden you have no check." — Madeleine Baran [11:13]
    • The systemic question became: was this DA discriminating in all his cases?

• Extraordinary Reporting Work and Data Analysis

  • The investigation required physically gathering and scanning hundreds of thousands of pages from rural courthouses—no digital records available ([13:30]-[15:55]).
    • "We were going to local jails, we were going to abandoned warehouses... just gathering hundreds of thousands of pages of documents..." — Samara Freemark [13:48]
    • This led to identifying broad patterns of racial discrimination, which was pivotal to the Supreme Court's involvement.

• Facing Power: Confronting DA Doug Evans

  • Interviewing Evans, they encountered his remarkable indifference to accountability ([16:07]-[16:48]).
    • "He wasn't used to being questioned by journalists or members of the public at all. And he just didn't really feel like he had to be accountable to the public." — Madeleine Baran [16:28]

The Future: Season Three and What Makes an “In The Dark” Story

• Season Three: Teasing What’s Next

  • Details kept secret, but it's described as their most ambitious story yet ([16:59]-[17:08]).
    • "I can say that it is definitely the most ambitious story we've ever worked on and we are extremely excited about it." — Samara Freemark [17:08]

• What Defines an “In The Dark” Story

  • Goes beyond investigative exposé to be gripping, human, and change-inducing. It's about marrying hard-hitting reporting with compelling storytelling ([17:43]-[18:28]).
    • "It's a story that is investigative... exposing powerful people or institutions engaged in wrongdoing that has actual harm on people's lives. But it's also a story that is gripping and compelling... If we uncover lots of egregious wrongdoing but we can't make anybody care about it, then what's the point?" — Madeleine Baran [17:43]

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Partnership:
  "I would really like to work with this woman." — Samara Freemark [01:36]

• On the Power of a Reporter’s Approach:
  "As investigative reporters, we need people to care about the stories that we tell." — Madeleine Baran [03:38]

• On Systemic Failure:
  "The ultimate kind of legal groundhog Day—excess of prosecutorial power run amok..." — Madeleine Baran [11:13]

• On the Unique Challenge of Race and Justice:
  "Is this a larger pattern by the district attorney to strike black people from the jury, not just in Curtis's case, but in all of his cases?" — Madeleine Baran [12:55]

• On the Physical Commitment to Reporting:
  "She would spend eight hours in that clerk's office just scanning... and she did that for months." — Madeleine Baran [15:18]

• On Public Accountability:
  "He just didn't really feel like he had to be accountable to the public." — Madeleine Baran [16:45]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:03] — David Remnick introduces "In The Dark" and guests
• [01:27] — Baran & Freemark recount their journey to creating the show
• [04:17] — Discussion of teamwork in investigative reporting
• [05:09] — Reframing the Jacob Wetterling case
• [06:49] — The real-time challenge of the case’s sudden resolution
• [09:31] — Deciding on the Curtis Flowers case
• [11:01] — Systemic racism and prosecutorial misconduct
• [13:30] — Massive data-gathering efforts in Mississippi
• [15:55] — Supreme Court attention, confronting the DA
• [16:59] — Teasing season three
• [17:43] — Defining the show’s investigative voice

Tone and Language

Throughout, the conversation is earnest and candid, offering a behind-the-scenes look at the labor, passion, and moral urgency that drive great investigative journalism. Both guests blend technical detail with human insight, reflecting a deep sense of purpose and responsibility.

Summary Takeaways

• "In The Dark" redefines investigative storytelling by asking new questions of old stories, revealing institutional failures, and making the abstract personal.
• Their reporting is collaborative, exhaustive, and inventive, blending shoe-leather work with sophisticated data analysis.
• The team is committed to stories that have real-world implications, seek accountability, and engage a broad public—not just with facts, but with compelling narratives.
• More is to come with an ambitious third season, promising the same depth and urgency.

For new listeners, this episode is a perfect on-ramp to “In The Dark” and a window into the highest stakes of investigative audio journalism today.