Podcast Summary: "Jia Tolentino on the Rise and Fall of the Internet"

The New Yorker Radio Hour, August 27, 2019
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Jia Tolentino

Overview

This episode centers on a conversation between David Remnick and Jia Tolentino, a staff writer for The New Yorker and author of Trick Mirror: Reflections on Self-Delusion. The discussion explores the evolution of the Internet from a place of surprising discovery to a space often characterized by self-performance, social media pressures, and polarization. Tolentino reflects deeply on her own relationship to the Internet, the resulting impact on identity, and the broader societal implications for her generation and beyond. The episode also touches on the nature of literary essay writing, public engagement in the era of online trolling, and the search for clarity in a tumultuous digital landscape.

Key Discussion Points

1. The Early Internet: Freedom and Discovery

• Tolentino describes her first experiences online as "generative" and liberating, allowing for private exploration without scrutiny.
  • Quote: "It was like what it felt like to me was a neighborhood that you could walk through and you could just go into these houses that would be decorated with, you know, all of these things you'd never seen before, and then you could leave." (Gia Tolentino, 02:46)
• Early internet culture was typified by personal blogs and sites curated out of fascination, rather than self-branding.

[00:10–03:24]

2. The Shift: Monetization and Performance

• Tolentino traces how the rise of social media has transformed the Internet from a place of authentic self-expression to one demanding constant self-curation and personal branding.
  • Discusses the transition from blogging as a "hobby" to a "readily monetizable practice and a career." (03:52)
  • Notes the corrosive impact of systems (capitalism, patriarchy, the platform economy) which, while providing her benefits, are fundamentally punishing and deeply flawed.
  • Quote: "It's been this sort of civically corrosive... it's this nightmare at the center of our culture and life. At the same time, it's the only reason I have a job." (Gia Tolentino, 05:22)

[03:24–06:07]

3. Navigating Personal and Public Selves

• Tolentino reflects on her own tactics to retain sanity and pleasure online by minimizing exposure and filtering what she engages with.
  • Discusses leaving the relentless pace of Jezebel to recalibrate her digital habits and attention span.
  • Quote: "You are going to keep this to a daily minimum, and you'll interact with the Internet through a lens of pleasure... This is the only way you're gonna, you know, survive being a writer in this day and age." (Gia Tolentino, 06:34)

[06:07–07:25]

4. The Literary Form as Internet Reflection

• The conversation delves into how online culture has influenced Tolentino’s approach to essay writing:
  • Influences: Susan Sontag, Joan Didion, Rebecca Solnit, Zadie Smith, Ellen Willis, Leslie Jamison, Eula Biss.
  • Characteristics: Digressive, argument-with-self, inconclusive, multi-angled.
  • Quote: "It's a curvy journey. It doesn't really land anywhere. That was the animating impulse for the book: I want clarity... but I cannot ever reenter that place of certainty that I was in pre-election." (Gia Tolentino, 08:35)
• Remnick and Tolentino agree that arriving at definitive conclusions feels incompatible with contemporary reality.

[07:25–09:12]

5. Facing Online Criticism and Trolls

• Tolentino distinguishes between standard trolling and more severe harassment (e.g., death threats).
• Her advice: Don’t feed the trolls or take the bait unless necessary, as engagement can be counterproductive and emotionally numbing.
  • Quote: "Don't take the bait... I try to do is understand, like, do I have more power than these people? Do I have more security than them? If I don't need to respond, I try not to take the bait." (Gia Tolentino, 09:32)
• She worries that hardening herself against online abuse could also lead her to disregard valid criticism.

[09:12–11:07]

6. The Internet, Activism, and Viral Outrage

• Tolentino critiques how even righteous outrage, when systematized and monetized online (e.g., dunking on Trump on Twitter), can redirect attention and benefit the individual rather than effect structural change.
  • Quote: "Trying to get, like, it sort of incentivizes this thing where you have this response to Trump that goes viral and then... benefits you. The Internet creates a situation where opposition can sometimes serve us." (Gia Tolentino, 11:18)

[11:07–11:58]

7. The Agony and Joy of Writing

• Tolentino loves not only the finished product but the process—its agony, uncertainty, and discipline.
  • Links the experience to her broader worldview and upbringing in the Southern Baptist church—valuing “uncertainty and agony and work and devotion, you know, and sustained attention.”
  • Quote: "I love the agony of writing... uncertainty and agony and work and devotion, you know, and sustained attention, I think that's a way that I want to be in the world." (Gia Tolentino, 12:28)
• Values the “miracle” of thinking about something in private before it becomes public.

[11:58–13:23]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "In the beginning, the Internet seemed good... and now... this feverish, electric, unlivable hell." (David Remnick summarizing Tolentino, 00:10)
• "I was blogging, love to blog." (Gia Tolentino, on 10-year-old self, 02:38)
• "Being on the Internet constantly had done something to me. And that was when I was like, okay, you are going to keep this to a daily minimum." (Gia Tolentino, 06:34)
• "I wanted to be a little more sensitive... I was afraid that brushing off unfair criticism would make me brush off fair criticism." (Gia Tolentino, 10:06)
• "The fact of having time to think about something in private before it becomes public still feels like a real miracle to me." (Gia Tolentino, 13:23)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:10–03:24 — Remnick & Tolentino discuss how the Internet felt in its early days, personal blogs, and discovery.
• 03:24–06:07 — The transition to social media, self-branding, and the corrosiveness/benefit paradox; monetization of attention and identity.
• 06:07–07:25 — Tolentino describes changing her relationship with the Internet to preserve attention and pleasure.
• 07:25–09:12 — Reflections on literary influences and the fragmented, digressive essay form.
• 09:12–11:07 — Strategies for dealing with trolling and abusive feedback online.
• 11:07–11:58 — The complex role of viral activism and performative outrage in internet culture.
• 11:58–13:23 — Why Tolentino loves the agonizing process of writing and how it connects to her worldview.

Tone and Style

The conversation is candid, self-reflective, and suffused with Tolentino’s trademark wit and complexity. She and Remnick share a warm rapport, diving deep into the ambiguities of online life and literary craft without offering easy answers—embracing uncertainty as both a necessity and a virtue in contemporary culture.

Summary prepared for listeners who seek a nuanced understanding of Jia Tolentino's critique of internet evolution, selfhood, and the essay form.