Jon Stewart on the Perilous State of Late Night and Why America Fell for Donald Trump

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: Jon Stewart on the Perilous State of Late Night and Why America Fell for Donald Trump
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Jon Stewart
Date: October 31, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on a live conversation between David Remnick and Jon Stewart at the New Yorker Festival. They discuss the increasing threats to free speech, the vulnerability of late night satire amid political upheaval, and how the U.S. media and political landscape paved the way for Donald Trump’s rise. The discussion explores the responsibilities and limitations of political comedy in a time of authoritarian drift, persistent institutional failures, and digital disruption.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of Late Night and Free Speech

• Response to Political Pressure:
  Stewart recounts the chaotic media and political atmosphere following Jimmy Kimmel’s suspension, emphasizing the precariousness of late-night satire in the current climate.
  • “There is a certain amount of strength of a society that is able to withstand the smallest of ridicule. And when that goes away... it rattled everyone.” (Jon Stewart, 04:24)
• American vs. Foreign Autocracy:
  Stewart draws comparisons between the U.S. and autocratic countries while remaining cautiously optimistic about American resilience.
  • “They are attempting to graft, I think, an alien culture onto this country. We're not Russia... but as bad as this is, and it's fucking bad. Like, I knew it would be bad, I did not... think it was gonna be like flesh-eating dick cancer bad.” (Jon Stewart, 06:08)

2. Institutional Capture and Parallel Media Ecosystems

• Stewart outlines the decades-long conservative strategy to build parallel institutions and media to challenge the mainstream.
  • “They built a parallel universe of think tanks and education and media... so that they could at some point just flip a switch and move us over onto that track.” (Jon Stewart, 07:38)

3. Challenges Facing Comedy and News under New Corporate Leadership

• Stewart addresses concerns about new leadership at Paramount and CBS (David Ellison, Barry West) with a Trump-friendly bent, but asserts his own resolve:
  • “You don't compromise on what you do. And you do it till they tell you to leave. That's all you can do.” (Jon Stewart, 09:50)

4. Institutional Failures and the Public’s Dissatisfaction

• Stewart points out that Trump’s appeal lay not just in his message, but in the failures of traditional institutions.
  • “The institutions... have problems. And if we don't address those problems... then those institutions become vulnerable to this kind of assault... The victims are the people that are struggling to have any voice.” (Jon Stewart, 10:46 & 05:20)
  • “There’s a reason Donald Trump came to power... the system is rigged. And people go, ‘Yeah, it is rigged.’ Now, he's a good diagnostician. I don't particularly care for his remedy.” (Jon Stewart, 10:46)

5. Digital Outrage & Social Media’s Impact on Democracy

• Stewart describes the toxic synergy between social media outrage and a centuries-old analog political system.
  • “We are victims of the circadian rhythms of social media... outrage and anger and hate and hostility are much stronger drivers of engagement than anything else... you put those together and it's not a good mix.” (Jon Stewart, 11:47)
• He likens social media to “ultra-processed speech, in the same way that Doritos are food” – designed to hijack healthy patterns of communication. (25:15 – 26:15)

6. Critique of Both Parties and the 2024/2028 Democratic Prospects

• Stewart considers the Democratic Party complicit in passivity, neoliberal economics, and abandoning vision.
  • “It's not just Trump. It's the passivity of the Democratic Party to stick with a status quo that most people felt was not working.” (Jon Stewart, 13:14)
• He laments the lack of inspiring Democratic leaders and the desperation evident in public yearning for alternative figures, including himself.

7. Cancel Culture, Wokeism, and the Left’s Limitations

• Stewart acknowledges left-wing censoriousness, but distinguishes it from more fundamental systemic failures.
  • “That [wokeism] gets a little out of control. But the idea that that has the same effect on the world as like a rich country that isn't able to give its people health care...” (Jon Stewart, 23:14)
• Critiques how Democrats fail to effectively counter right-wing culture war tactics.

8. Media Responsibility and the Podcast Ecosystem

• The pair discuss the responsibilities of interviewers (e.g. Rogan’s platforming of extreme views), and the necessity for critics to engage head-on.
  • “If you don't like what he does, then do it better. Beat them at their own game. It's not enough to just complain that that guy got a platform.” (Jon Stewart, 30:07)
• Stewart questions the myth of journalistic or comedic impact, expressing humility about media influence.
  • “I don't know how I affect you... I wish I knew, believe me. Or maybe I don’t. Like, it actually could be hurting. Like, I don’t know.” (Jon Stewart, 42:32)

9. Gaza, Empathy, and “Team Human”

• Stewart discusses the emotional toll and complexity of public discourse on Gaza and other humanitarian crises.
  • “I have very strong opinions about the horror of what I see over there on all sides. I'm on Team Human... It's a failure of the world and it's a failure of humanity.” (Jon Stewart, 43:10 – 44:50)

10. Fragmented Audiences and a Changing Media Landscape

• Stewart and Remnick discuss how younger generations consume information in new ways, making traditional media feel obsolete.
  • “You and I operate a Blockbuster kiosk inside a Tower Records. There's no question.” (Jon Stewart, 46:07)

11. Idealism and Hope

• Despite cynicism and political challenges, Stewart affirms belief in American goodness and possibility.
  • “There's more good than bad. I always will believe that. I always will believe that. The odds are in our favor. Always.” (Jon Stewart, 34:45)

12. Comic Relief: The Mets, Family & Final Thoughts

• In a lighter closing, Stewart discusses his (losing) loyalty to the New York Mets and family dynamics, adding comic relief and warmth to end the conversation.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Satire under Autocracy:
  • “Satire was settled law... And to find out that it, along with Dobbs, were going to be revisiting what we considered stare decisis... it rattled everyone.” (Jon Stewart, 04:01)
• On CBS and Paramount Changes:
  • “You don’t compromise on what you do. And you do it till they tell you to leave. That’s all you can do.” (Jon Stewart, 09:50)
• On Trump’s Appeal:
  • “He knows how to channel the frustrations of an audience. He knows how to read a room... There is an undeniable connection between him and his audience to the point where the normal rules of engagement don’t apply.” (Jon Stewart, 39:34)
• On Gaza:
  • “I'm on Team Human, and I don't think that... right now there's death and sadness and starvation and horror, and I just don't... I don't think it's human and I don't know what happened.” (Jon Stewart, 43:10)
• On Social Media:
  • “Social media is ultra-processed speech. In the same way that Doritos are food, it's designed to bypass the parts of your brain that keep you off it.” (Jon Stewart, 25:15)
• On Political Efficacy:
  • “People can say, like, do you think what you do is effective? I have no idea. I just do what I have to do.” (Jon Stewart, 41:50)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 04:24 | Stewart on free speech and satire under threat | | 06:08 | American vs. foreign autocracy comparison | | 07:38 | Conservative parallel institutions; historical strategy | | 09:50 | Stewart’s resolve at Comedy Central, CBS changes | | 11:47 | Effects of social media on democracy and politics | | 13:14 | Critique of Democratic Party passivity | | 23:14 | On wokeism and left-wing censoriousness | | 25:15 | Social media compared to ultra-processed food | | 30:07 | Podcast/media responsibility: platforming, engagement | | 34:45 | Stewart’s continued idealism about America | | 39:34 | Trump’s unique rapport with his base | | 42:32 | Humility about media impact | | 43:10 | On Gaza and global empathy | | 46:07 | The obsolescence of legacy media for young people |

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Overall Tone and Takeaways

The episode is suffused with Stewart’s signature blend of humor, blunt cynicism, and deep underlying idealism. Remnick and Stewart speak candidly and often irreverently, probing the real dangers facing comedy, journalism, and democracy—while also holding space for humility, skepticism of media influence, and enduring hope that good can prevail in the American experiment.

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For listeners interested in media, politics, comedy, and the social forces shaping today’s America, this conversation is essential, direct, and deeply relevant.

Transcript

[Announcer]

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[David Remnick]

Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. In September, right after Jimmy Kimmel was suspended from his late night talk show, Jon Stewart went on the air with a special episode of the Daily Show. From Comedy Central.

[Jon Stewart]

It's the allnew government approved Daily show.

[David Remnick]

With your patriotically obedient host, John Stewart. The joke of course was that they done a full rebranding and the high style of maga was on display. Flags flying, jet fighters soaring, the studio slowly lathered in gold and the desk is gigantic. Stewart in a red tie looks like he's going to lose his lunch.

[Jon Stewart]

We have another fun, hilarious, administration compliant show.

[David Remnick]

He's so anxious he's actually twitching.

[Jon Stewart]

Coming to you tonight from a real shithole, the crime ridden cesspool that is New York City. It is a tremendous disaster like no one's ever seen before. Someone's National Guard should invade this place. Am I right?

[David Remnick]

That night was a real reminder of why after 25 years plus, we still very much need Jon Stewart on the air. But compared to his early years on the show, the era of George W. Bush, this is a much more dangerous time for late night and for speech and for America. Kimmel nearly lost his job over a remark about Max. In the wake of Charlie Kirk's murder, the head of the FCC threatens broadcasters in a tone that sometimes sounds a lot like a mob boss. This administration supports free speech only insofar as it agrees with that speech. And Stewart is not too far from the hot seat himself. Comedy Central is now controlled by David Ellison, the Trump friendly CEO of Paramount Skydance. So I sat down to hash this all out the other day with Jon Stewart at the New Yorker Festival. Hello, Jon Stewart.

[Announcer]

How are you?

[David Remnick]

I am so pleased to have Jon Stewart here.

[Jon Stewart]

Me too. I'm delighted.

[David Remnick]

This is a Man of New Jersey. Can I hear it for.

[Jon Stewart]

That's it.

[Announcer]

That's it.

[Jon Stewart]

That's the appropriate level of respect. Few cheers, couple of boos, most people indifferent. I understand. I've lived there.

[David Remnick]

I want to begin by reminding you of what happened not long ago when Jimmy Kimmel was tossed off the air. You had to come up with a response to something very serious. And I want to know if you. And by the way, you weren't alone. Colbert also did John Oliver. Also. Was there any sense of coordination or conversation in how you would do this?

[Jon Stewart]

No, I don't even have their numbers. I don't even know. No, we do have a text chain that goes along. I think everybody, look, we all understand that it's a luxury. None of us wrote a platform or any of those things, but we also understand that it's a meaningful luxury and that there is a certain amount of strength of a society that is able to withstand the smallest of ridicule. And when that goes away, when the leadership becomes. You know, the last time that that happened was I have a friend who did a show very similar to mine in Egypt, and he was exiled. And in America, we sort of assumed that satire was settled law. And to find out that it, along with Dobbs, were going to be revisiting what we considered stare decisis. You know, it. I think it rattled everyone to some extent, but it also presented great opportunity. And so I don't know that we've had as much fun as we did that Thursday morning, coming up with all the stupid little shit that you see with, I mean, including, like, gold pictures and red ties. And, you know, it. It gave us some. Some purpose. That being said, like, I want to be clear, I don't. The victims of this administration are not the comedians. Like, we are a visible manifestation of certain things, but the victims are. The victims are the people that are struggling to have any voice and are being forcibly removed from streets by, you know, hooded agents. You know, those are the victims of this administration.

[David Remnick]

You say that this is not the issue, but look, I remember when Putin came to power in 2000, sure, the first thing he did was take a program that was a satirical program about politics called Kukli Puppets off the air. And people said, oh, he took the puppets off the air. Within a couple of weeks, the news was off the air. Isn't it possible that this assault, however kind of herky jerky and back and forth it might be, is tantamount to something else?

[Jon Stewart]

When 7 million people show up in America on a weekend for anything. I mean, honestly, anything. You know, something's going on. And this is. They are attempting to graft, I think, an alien culture onto this country. We're not Russia. And their history of autocracy or dictatorship or those things. That doesn't mean we're not going to be in some kind of soft autocracy where news is controlled, but we have a lot of different avenues. And suppression creates opportunity and a populace that is thirsty for inspiration and leadership and morality and integrity and lack of corruption, that's fertile ground for that opportunity. So, like, as bad as this is, and it's fucking bad. Like, I knew it would be bad, I did not. It was. Think it was gonna be like flesh eating dick cancer bad. Like I.

[David Remnick]

That's.

[Jon Stewart]

That's an I. Yeah.

[David Remnick]

You know how bad it is. David Ellison, just my new boss. Paramount.

[Jon Stewart]

Yes.

[David Remnick]

And not only does he forgive me, own your enterprise, he could also affect it. And he just hired Barry west to run CBS News. So tell me what this. Tell me what this means.

[Jon Stewart]

Well, I wish you would mention that before I went into the dick cancer pad. This is not happenstance. This began with Richard Viggory doing mail in to try and get people to be conservative. This began with people buying AM radio stations and converting them to conservative talk radio. This began with Roger Ailes and the Nixon White House going, we will never allow this to happen to a Republican politician again. All of the institutions by which I mean education and media and news and academia and all those things that we relied on as a solid tent post by which to build a decent society on, they were like, yeah, no. And they built a parallel universe of think tanks and education and media and so that they could at some point just flip a switch and move us over onto that track. Because what. What do these institutions have? They are the reference point for our decisions. What do you do, you quote? Well, there's a study done by. And you use data and scientific method and other things to try and make as informed a decision as you can. But if you're a political movement that believes that investing those institutions with authority is against your movement, the best thing you can do is build organizations that either tear down the credibility of those institutions or you build your own.

[David Remnick]

But with respect, John, this is different. This is markedly different. It's one thing. It's one thing to have the Brookings Institution that was kind of liberal, and then you have the rise of the American Enterprise Institute. It's one thing to have a liberal newspaper and then a conservative newspaper. Fine, fine. In fact, all the better in some ways. But this is. What's going on now is different. And with respect, you're going to face it potentially with Paramount and the Daily Show.

[Jon Stewart]

Sure.

[David Remnick]

What do you do?

[Jon Stewart]

You don't compromise on what you do. And you do it till they tell you to leave. That's all you can do. That's all you can do.

[David Remnick]

So I think the line that you gave before was, I'm not giving in. I'm not going anywhere.

[Jon Stewart]

I think I'm neurotic still. I'm not.

[David Remnick]

You know, your contract comes up in December, you're going to sign another one.

[Jon Stewart]

I mean, we're working on staying. Look, the other thing to remember is it's not as clear cut as all that.

[David Remnick]

In other words, if it's up to you, you're staying.

[Jon Stewart]

Oh, yeah, sure. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. It's up to me. I'm sorry.

[David Remnick]

How do you think CBS News will be affected? Does evening news even matter at this point? In the, in the, I don't know. In the media sphere that we live.

[Jon Stewart]

In, we are conjecture, we are projecting things that, that we do not know. The ecosystem has changed, the monetization of it has changed. I will tell you this. It is a different ethos. But one thing we have to remember, and this is the hardest truth for us to get at, is that the institutions that we spoke about earlier have problems. They do. And if we don't address those problems in a forthright way, then those institutions become vulnerable to this kind of assault. Credibility is not something that was just taken, it was also lost. And that is a part of this equation that has to be considered. And the Democrats have to consider that as well. There's a reason Donald Trump came to power, and that is that in the general populist mind, government no longer serves the interests of the people it purports to represent. That's a broad based, deep feeling. And that helps when someone comes along and goes, the system is rigged. And people go, yeah, it is rigged. Now, he's a good diagnostician. I don't particularly care for his remedy.

[David Remnick]

I don't know why you think Trump.

[Jon Stewart]

Won because of that. Because of the dissatisfaction of an analog system in a digital world. The distance between how you feel about the world and the world has never been larger. We are victims of the circadian rhythms of social media. And social media is incentivized to what not connect us. And I've seen the Facebook commercial and yes, it's true. If you do, like a certain kind of cat There will be other people that like that certain kind of cat, and you will connect with each other. But the purpose of social media is to. To keep you on its platform. That's it. They want you on that platform. They want you on there as long as they could possibly have you. And the way that they have rigged our brains to figure it out is that outrage and anger and hate and hostility are much stronger drivers of engagement than anything else. Now, on the flip side of that, we have a political system designed in the 18. What, it's 1789, an analog. What is the Senate? It's the cooling saucer of democracy. And what's Twitter, the thing that makes you want to rip people's eyes out? And you put those together and it's not a good mix. And so he was able to harness the anger and catastrophizing of that as a way of taking over that other thing that we have.

[David Remnick]

And you didn't find Joe Biden and Kamala Harris a good remedy for that in the election? That was called the setup line.

[Jon Stewart]

I thought they were great. Look, what's going on with Mandani. You finally got a guy in New York City who is getting people to vote in the affirmative for his positions, who is inspiring people and giving a certain amount of leadership. And what does the general status quo of the Democratic Party do with that guy is a communist. Like, they go along with the caricature of this man. Look, we're in a bad situation. But it's not just Trump. It's the passivity of the Democratic Party to stick with a status quo that most people felt was not working.

[David Remnick]

In January, about a week after Trump was inaugurated, you did a monologue on the Daily Show. It was, God knows it was critical of Trump, but you didn't go after him so much as you went after a lot of his critics, or at least the more hypocritical and pearl clutching ones. You seem to be saying that instead of crying wolf, calling him a fascist for every executive order was to his benefit. Do you think you underestimated how bad this would get?

[Jon Stewart]

No, I stand by it, because in that moment, that's how I felt. What I'm saying is the seeds of this destruction were not sown this year. They were sown by Citizens United. They were sown by corporations or people. They were sown by a Democratic Party that thinks it's okay for their Senate to be an assisted living facility. Like, respectfully, I mean, I could kick the shit out of the Senate. I don't mean this cynically, I mean this idealistically. I mean this as like, we better get real about this very fast. And it's coming from a perspective of having worked with our government to try and get certain things done. I was stunned by certain Republicans that would tweet out, never forget the heroes of 911 versus how they would vote for their medical care. But I was also stunned by the Democratic Party leadership's passivity and being told over and over again, no, no, no, you have to go through regular order when we have this congressional hearing. I don't want you to be confrontational. You have to be nice. And then what we hopefully will get to do is put the first responders and the victims of 911 will be able to put their healthcare into the transportation bill, unless Mitch McConnell thinks he wants for the import export tax that he really wants on petroleum. And I would go, that's crazy. And so this is coming from a place of. I've lived with this.

[David Remnick]

Well, we're in the middle of a government shutdown. Right. Which is a different attitude this time than it was the last time.

[Jon Stewart]

That's right.

[David Remnick]

Does that make Chuck Schumer any braver now than he was before?

[Jon Stewart]

No. And you can tell, but, like, what Chuck Schumer's been told is you're losing, and people like your glasses to be higher up on your nose. And so what I'm telling you is, here's what they're doing with us now. The strategy is authenticity. And suddenly people in Congress are cursing. Oh, and it seems so natural when Chuck Schumer curse, this is a shitty bill. I'm tell. I'm like, I'm over it all, man. I'm over it all. And I understand why people wanted to blow it up and why it's so vulnerable to being taken over by a charismatic person that says, I understand how this is done. Even the shutdown, which I'm glad that they stood up for something, but I still think the ACA is playing the Republican in the corporate game. It's basically just subsidies to insurance companies when what we need is health care. And the ACA doesn't give you health care. It gives you subsidies to get a coupon that maybe you can take to someone that then they'll give it to you, and then there'll still be a deductible. 40% of people in this country go without things like food because of their medical debt. And so, like, when the Democrats announce that they got the pharmaceutical companies to, out of the grace of their heart, allow us to negotiate the price on 10 different medicines. Only 10? And that's a victory when we're subsidizing these motherfuckers by billions of dollars a year. No. No more. I'm done with it.

[David Remnick]

I'm speaking with Jon Stewart, the comedian, actor and host of the Daily Show. We'll continue in just a moment. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour.

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[Ira Glass]

This is Ira Glass, the host of this American Life. So much is changing so rapidly right now with President Trump in office. It feels good to pause for a moment sometimes and look around at what's what to try and do that. We've been finding these incredible stories about right now that are funny and have feeling and you get to see people everywhere adapting and making sense of this new America that we find ourselves in. If you haven't listened in a while, I honestly think these are some of the best stories we've ever done. This is American Life Every week, wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Remnick]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick and I'm speaking today with Jon Stewart. Stewart was hardly the first political comedian on tv, but on the Daily show he pioneered something new. He delivered some of the sharpest political analysis on television, interviewing serious newsmakers in a format that was also consistently hilarious. Stewart helped Launch the careers of Stephen Colbert, Trevor Noah, John Oliver and many others. And in bringing journalism or something kind of like journalism to late night entertainment, Stewart upped the game for the entire medium. I'll continue my conversation now with Jon Stewart. We grew up in New Jersey, but I grew up with another comedian, Bill Maher. I used to play basketball in a driveway with him and he was a local celebrity.

[Jon Stewart]

You know, there's nothing better than playing basketball with short shoes, I have to tell you.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, you can post up on him.

[Jon Stewart]

We used to have a game at Gary Shandling's house. Literally. We were like, I think Al Franken might be Pete Maravich, Kevin Nealon would come by and everybody would just be like, what? No, you can't do that.

[David Remnick]

Yeah. And Bill Maher is the comic political voice of the notion that the biggest problem the Democrats have is wokeism. How do you respond to Bill's approach to the world?

[Jon Stewart]

Well, I don't know if that's just Bills. I mean, I may shorthand for it.

[David Remnick]

But wokeism is not something that enters your analysis of things for the most part.

[Jon Stewart]

No. There is a real pressure that people feel on issues that they don't quite understand, where they don't want to offend. And it can have a censorious effect on discourse. I've seen it. And the left certainly has their. Like, like when someone says to me like pregnant people, I do go, well, it's. I understand. But like, come on.

[David Remnick]

But it doesn't make you crazy.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah. If you'd be better to be like pregnant women and Dave, like, you don't have to, you know, like you don't have to do the whole thing. So yeah, that gets a little out of control. But the idea that that has the same effect on the world as like a rich country that isn't able to give its people health care. That's where I take the one thing.

[David Remnick]

I would give him is the most politically effective. So called the most politically effective advertisement for the Trump campaign was the one about trans people. You know, she is for them, he is for you. That was extremely attractive on Twitter.

[Jon Stewart]

Commercial is simple as well. Like, yes, Donald Trump is for you if you are a convicted sex trafficker who should get transferred to a less bad prison because you're not going to name him. Donald Trump is for you if you have a jet that you will give him and then. Or Donald Trump is for you if you give billions to his campaign and so he will allow you to bypass tariffs and not small businesses. Like, my problem is they don't know how to fight that effectively. They do not realize the game they are playing. I don't think in my mind, how do you mean? There is a relentlessness and of bad faith to the social media algorithm. It's. I'm trying to think like, okay, here's a different analogy. If you go to a restaurant and the food is delicious, it's because they probably, like add a little extra butter or they throw a little salt in there, a little umami in there. Maybe they throw a little sugar in the marinara, you know what I mean? And like, and you eat it and you're like, wow, that's decadent and beautiful and I would like to come back here. But it's still within the realm of what we understand as the earthly tricks we play on each other. But there are guys in lab coats who work for Kraft who are figuring out how to take the gland of like a beaver's anus and turn it into strawberry flavoring. And then there's a bunch of other dudes that are checking the consistency, consistency of it. And they're designing it to get past the prehistoric reptilian wiring of your brain so that you no longer understand that two bags of chips and a quart of ice cream might not be good for you in the long run. And social media is that what we do is we communicate. And we sometimes use hyperbole and we sometimes use puns and satire and like toadies and all and parody to convey something and it's cheating a little bit. But social media is ultra processed speech. In the same way that Doritos are food, it's designed to bypass the parts of your brain that keep you off it, that keep you from diving into those holes, from radicalizing yourself. That's what you're up against. They are designing these things in the lab to bypass our ability to collaborate and cooperate.

[David Remnick]

When did these guys get so bad? You remember years and years ago.

[Jon Stewart]

They've always sucked.

[David Remnick]

Ah, no, but wait a minute. We believed, or half believed that these guys, because they wore jeans and stuff, sneakers, and they were kind of cool and said things like, don't be evil and so on and so forth.

[Jon Stewart]

Isn't that something someone evil would say? It's like Peter Thiel. Peter Thiel is always going on about Satan. Satan. It could be amongst us. It could be Greta Thunberg. And you'd be like, or it could be a guy who runs a company called Palantir.

[David Remnick]

But wait a minute, you're forgetting the early part of these guys career. Mark Zuckerberg when it's going to make it possible. Sergey Brin was going to make it possible. If you're sitting in the desert somewhere where you didn't have access to a library, now you could read Shakespeare on your phone. And this was amazing. And he was. Everybody was going to be connected. And this would democratize the press.

[Jon Stewart]

Yes.

[David Remnick]

And they believed it. And a large part of us believed it.

[Jon Stewart]

No, they all want to be the next guy. They all just want to be the next Musk. They want to be the next person. Look, we suffer from the same thing in that we're people. Like everything that we have that's great can be weaponized against us. Nuclear power is the. As Oppenheimer once famously said, what could go wrong?

[David Remnick]

John, you've been on Rogan a couple of times.

[Jon Stewart]

Yes.

[David Remnick]

What did you think of that experience being on Joy?

[Jon Stewart]

I enjoyed being on Rogan. I think he's an interesting interviewer. There are right wing weaponized commentators whose sole purpose is to manipulate things to the benefit of the Bannon Project or the Project 2025. Rogan's not that guy.

[David Remnick]

What is that guy? How would you describe that guy?

[Jon Stewart]

Is a curious comic who fell into this thing that got fucking enormous. Maybe doesn't has opinions all over the political spectrum, but has tendencies that people on the left does not fit the aesthetic. He's a hunter.

[David Remnick]

In fairness, he's had people on who are kind of Nazi curious. That's not good.

[Jon Stewart]

So have, I mean, I've interviewed Kissinger. Like it's. And he was carpet bomb curious. Like, I don't know what to say. Like, like it's very easy to castigate those where we're like, but he had an opinion a few years back. That's, you know.

[David Remnick]

But the difference is when he was carpet bomb curious, you didn't say, oh yeah, that's awesome. And what happens with Rogan sometimes is he'll hear somebody that's on the dangerous end of the spectrum and he'll just kind of soak it in.

[Jon Stewart]

And so, and this is, I think this is a great point. And it's whosever job who thinks that that information is dangerous to fight to get their point of view out there to counter what they think is misinformation. You can't just deputize people to say he should have known better and he should have prosecuted that point.

[David Remnick]

But the reality is, John, is that it might be my job or the New York Times job or even your job, but I don't have the audience that Joe Rogan does then get it. Yeah, find it.

[Jon Stewart]

Find people who do. Then go on. Then go on that show, then do those things like that is it's not acceptable to just say, well, I don't like what he does. Then do it better beat them at their own game. It's not enough to just complain that that guy got a platform and don't platform that guy. There's no one in this world right now that isn't platformed. And my biggest frustration, honestly, with a lot of scientists is they all go, rfk. He's so fucked up. That's terrible information. Oh, okay. What's the information? Nothing. Where are they? Get out there. Fight.

[David Remnick]

You know, I got in trouble. I was given an interview to a German magazine. I said I would interview Hitler. And I thought that was kind of non controversial. Is there anybody that you wouldn't interview?

[Jon Stewart]

It depends on what the expectation is also for the interview. Because remember, a lot of what we're doing right now is we're falling into that trap that an interview, a good interview will solve the problem. I've been on the side of the good interview. I've been on the side. I interviewed Donald Rumsfeld. I lost more sleep over that interview than he did over the entire fucking war. And you know what he did afterwards? He wrote me a note saying, that was fun.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Jon Stewart]

Yep.

[David Remnick]

Yep.

[Jon Stewart]

Do you have any idea how that still hurts? He wrote, that was fun. I bet if we had known each other when we were younger, we would have been friends.

[David Remnick]

Ooh, Ooh. John, what did you think of the recent. The business of comedians going to Riyadh and being paid a lot of money? What did you think of that?

[Jon Stewart]

I don't touch other people's money. And, you know, it's hard, man. I want to fix my house. I want to operate with integrity, but I don't want to gatekeep. Like, I'm not. I don't go to the tree of hilarity and get visited by the fathers of. And I think a lot of comics who came out and. And really shit on those guys. Like, I know a couple of them and I know them actually to be like garbage humans. So I would have preferred if they would have just come out though, and said, it's money and not like it's a way to start a conversation. Like, would you have started the conversation for $2,500? Well, then that's, you know, that's the difference. Look, I worked for Apple. Like, there's a lot of people who believe that Apple is exploitative in A way that's horrific. You know, we all have our lines that we are willing to cross. Like we get into a problem when we're unforgiving in any way. We offer no grace. And that doesn't mean that I don't have lines that I draw, that if people cross it, I won't do. But I do try to not be so rigid in the way that I think society has become. And if it goes back to where.

[David Remnick]

The lines are ahead of time. No, because, I mean, as we started the conversation, you're. You're facing a complicated situation at Paramount.

[Jon Stewart]

Sure.

[David Remnick]

And you know what you won't do. But if you see something else happening in the company, do you know where those lines are? Like with the news?

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah. They've already done things that I'm upset about. But then if I had integrity, maybe I would stand up and go, I'm out. Or maybe the integrity thing to do would be to stay in it and keep fighting in the foxhole. Like, I love a good argument. I love differing points of view in all. In all facets of things. But I also love grace. I've got people in my family that are to the right of Attila the Hun. And when people tell me, like, how can you platform that person on your show? I go, I platform my uncle every fucking Thanksgiving. And by the way, I love him. He's a three dimensional human being who has qualities that I really admire, things about him. And we've lost that. We've lost the ability to love people because we litmus test at every point in every single moment.

[David Remnick]

John, you've always struck me as an idealist, an American idealist. And I remember around 9 11, you said the view from your place was the towers. And then you said, now I have a view of the Statue of Liberty.

[Jon Stewart]

It was a terrific terrace, you know.

[David Remnick]

And that was a really idealistic thing to say about America in many ways, small and large.

[Jon Stewart]

I believe it.

[David Remnick]

You still do?

[Jon Stewart]

Absolutely. Absolutely. This is. And how can you not believe it? Because think of the amazing people that you see every day. Think of the quiet activism of living pleasantly. There's more good than bad. I always will believe that. I always will believe that. The odds are in our favor. Always.

[David Remnick]

I'm talking with Jon Stewart, a conversation that was recorded at the New Yorker Festival. We'll continue in just a moment.

[Ira Glass]

This is Ira Glass, the host of this American Life. So much is changing so rapidly right now with President Trump in office. It feels good to pause for a moment sometimes and look around at what's what to try and do that we've been finding these incredible stories about right now that are funny and have feeling, and you get to see people everywhere adapting and making sense of this new America that we find ourselves in. If you haven't listened in a while, I honestly think these are some of the best stories we've ever done. This is American Life. Every week, wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Remnick]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, and I'm David Remnick. Jon Stewart has always insisted that he's a comedian, a performer, not a journalist. But a generation of viewers came up saying that they got their news from Jon Stewart. He was also funny enough that at least early on, he was able to appeal to viewers who didn't always agree with his politics, which skewed distinctly liberal. For people who do agree with those politics. Stewart became a voice of authority, of reassurance in dark times. And back in 2016, some fans really implored him to challenge Hillary Clinton and run for president. And much more. Recently, the radio host Charlamagne Tha God, who's become something of a Democratic power broker himself, suggested quite seriously that Jon Stewart get in the game for 2028.

[Ira Glass]

He's a celebrity who actually knows what they're talking about. We've seen him get legislation and stuff passed before. Like, we know where his heart is. He'd be somebody I'd like to see really get in the race and disrupt things in 2028.

[David Remnick]

I'll continue my conversation now with Jon Stewart. You mentioned idealists in the, in the Democratic Party and, and, and figures who are just not up to the task. You mentioned Mamdani for, for one, who do you see on a national level who has promise as a national leader that, you know, you have 20 minutes. Somebody just said you, oh.

[Jon Stewart]

Have we, have we really gotten to that point? I do understand. You know what is interesting? That's also a function of frustration.

[David Remnick]

Cry of a cry of desperation.

[Jon Stewart]

You know what it is? Because I'm other. I'm none of the above. Years ago, I won a poll. It was most most trusted newsman in America. The poll was like, it might have been Peter Jennings, Tom Brokaw, rather Diane Sawyer and me. And I was, I'm none of the above. Like, but what a dildo rolled in glitter could have won that poll. I have never in the audiences that come into the show, seen them so thirsty for leadership. And so the none of the above. The Democratic Party is ripe for what happened to the Republican Party in 2016. But hopefully it will be Somebody who uses that power for good and not for self aggrandizement and not for their own, you know, gratification.

[David Remnick]

As somebody. I think this was. I think Elaine once said to Jerry on this show that as someone on the fringe of the humor community, do you think Donald Trump is funny?

[Jon Stewart]

Funny ha ha. I think he has a performer's cadence and. And it would be funnier if he didn't also control the army.

[David Remnick]

But what's the gift? Because it's not nothing. There is something that works for him with an audience.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah.

[David Remnick]

What does he got?

[Jon Stewart]

He knows how to channel the frustrations of an audience. He knows how to read a room. He knows what the room is feeling and he can articulate it back to them and they understand it. There is an undeniable connection between him and his audience to the point where the normal rules of engagement don't apply. And the Democrats, unfortunately, continue to be Wile E. Coyote in the acme. And they think, they always think they got him. Oh, if he's convicted of 34 felony counts, there's no way he'll win. Oh, we got him now. He just got indicted on. And every time Donald Trump just walks in and goes, meep, meep.

[David Remnick]

So then what catches the roadrunner? What puts an end to this?

[Jon Stewart]

What catches the roadrunner is to offer something other than not him is to offer something that's not just the negative. It's not just negative space. We are stuck in a pattern where the Democratic Party has bought into an agenda over 40 years that also bought into supply side economics and the general neoliberal vision of how things go. And that the only way workers are ever gonna get anything is just. You just gotta unionize better. Just poor people need better lobbyists. You know, they need a coherent vision. For whatever you think of Donald Trump, he presents to his audience a coherent vision. It's not one that I wanna live in. It's not one that I think makes America great. It's not one that I think is even endemic to how America ever really was.

[David Remnick]

So this is a question from the audience. John and David, you've both been sounding the alarm about the state of American democracy since 2016. After nearly a decade of saying the sky is falling, do you think that people are hearing you at all?

[Jon Stewart]

Why even write that as a question? Why just. Dear David and John, why don't you just die? Yeah. Why do you even get up in the morning?

[David Remnick]

The thought occurs to me all day.

[Jon Stewart]

Long with the democracy, this and the.

[David Remnick]

You got an answer?

[Jon Stewart]

It doesn't matter. I control what I can control. It doesn't matter if people. People can say, like, do you think what you do is effective? I have no idea. I just do what I have to do. It's. If you don't develop a barometer for morality or integrity for yourself and let that inform how you live, then you're at the whim of what you think other people view you as. And I have no control over that. I have no control over how people view.

[David Remnick]

Do you think by going into other forms, podcasts in particular, you've reached different audiences? Do you think that you're reaching them in a different way?

[Jon Stewart]

I don't know. That's the thing about communication is you don't. I don't know. The only people I talk to live in my house. Do you get what I mean? Like, people say, like, what's it like to be on tv? And you're like, it's like not being on tv. It's, you can see me, but I can't see you. I don't know how I affect you. Like, you just don't know. I wish I knew, believe me. Or maybe I don't. Like, it actually could be hurting. Like, I don't know.

[David Remnick]

What's it been like for you to think and talk about what's been happening in Gaza for the last two years? How have you been affected?

[Jon Stewart]

Super fun at Passover. It's a really fraught and complicated emotional issue, obviously, for a lot of Jews. But again, I try to speak as best I can, in my opinion, as honestly as I can. And if that means upsetting certain people, I'm always open to the conversation. But I have very strong opinions about the horror of what I see over there on all sides. I'm on Team Human, and I don't think that. Look, I grew up, man, as David. We were all David, not Remnick, obviously, but. But Biblical and. And I think feeling like David became Goliath was a hard thing to. To counsel for myself. And a lot of people disagree. And I know, listen, you bring this up and immediately, you know, you're ignoring. In 1954, they like, I really don't. I, like, I get it, but I'm like, right now there's death and sadness and starvation and horror, and I just don't. I don't think it's. I don't think it's human and I don't know what happened, and I don't know how we can do that. And it's a failure of the world and it's a failure of humanity. And it's the saddest thing that I can think. And by the way, the same shit's going on in Sudan and in the Congo and in all kinds of other places that don't have access to the kinds of information and light that we see. And it's articulated with us and it's going on in Ukraine and like, you know, we're. This is it. Like this is all we got. And if we can't figure this out, it's.

[David Remnick]

It's mind boggling, this being life on earth.

[Jon Stewart]

Right? Yeah, I, you know, you hate to get. But like when you get to be older, you do start thinking like, oh, I'm gonna. Like I won't be here, but do kid you.

[David Remnick]

Your kids are in their late teens.

[Jon Stewart]

Twenties that I know about.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Jon Stewart]

Oh, no, you're right. That is right. Actually.

[David Remnick]

Do they watch you on tv?

[Jon Stewart]

No, they don't even watch me in the house. They don't. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get them to look at you? It's very hard.

[David Remnick]

But I assume if they were in this room, and I know my kids in this room would say half of this conversation is irrelevant because they're not watching cable TV.

[Jon Stewart]

Sure.

[David Remnick]

They're not necessarily reading magazine with 10,000 word profiles and gag cartoons.

[Jon Stewart]

You and I operate a Blockbuster kiosk inside a tower records. There's no question.

[David Remnick]

There's.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah, we are. We are. We are definitely like, we're the guys out there who are like extra, extra. So yeah. No, they live in a completely different universe and it gives me hope. And I don't know how you feel about this, but like in the way that social media is like poison to me. Right. I'm hoping that they're. That the human spirit and the ability to sort of adapt and in yourself to the new technology, that it won't affect them in the same way that I think it affects me that it won't be as corrosive. I don't know that that's what it'll be, but I hope that.

[David Remnick]

Final question.

[Jon Stewart]

Sagittarius.

[David Remnick]

You're prescient. You're prescient. The Mets. What accounts for your love for the Mets?

[Jon Stewart]

I'm a loser and losers love to lose. My family is from Brooklyn and the Bronx and so my mother's side of the family were Yankee fans. My father's side of the family were.

[David Remnick]

That was my wife.

[Jon Stewart]

She. But so what happened was when the Dodgers left to go to la, you weren't allowed to flip your allegiance, you just had to wait. And so when the Mets came, that was the. So it was really a birthright, more than it was.

[David Remnick]

Well, as a Yankee fan, I wish you all the luck in the world. Jon Stewart, thank you.

[Jon Stewart]

Thank you for this.

[Ira Glass]

That was lovely.

[Jon Stewart]

Thank you, thank you. Thank you.

[David Remnick]

Jon Stewart. We spoke last week at the New Yorker Festival and I want to send a special thank you to our colleagues who put the festival together, including Katherine Sterling, Amanda Miller, Julia Rothschild, Nico Brown, Michael Etherington, and so many more. Thank you to all my colleagues.

[Announcer]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Louis Mitchell and Jared Paul. This episode was produced by Max Balton, Adam Howard, David Krasnow, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell, Jared Paul and Ursula Sommer. With guidance from Emily Bottin and assistance from Michael May, David Gable, Alex Barsch, Victor Guan and Alejandra Deckett. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Tsarina endowment fund. For 140 years, MultiCare has been in Washington prioritizing long term solutions, partnering with local communities and expanding access to care. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn [e-mail].

[Ira Glass]

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[Jon Stewart]

LifeLock alerts you to suspicious uses of.

[Ira Glass]

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