The New Yorker Radio Hour — “Life Under Quarantine”

Date: March 13, 2020
Host: David Remnick
Guests: Peter Hessler (staff writer in China), Lawrence Wright (author, journalist)

Episode Overview

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour delves into the lived reality of quarantine during the early months of COVID-19, as experienced in China and anticipated in the United States. Host David Remnick speaks with staff writer Peter Hessler about daily life under China’s strict quarantine, then interviews author Lawrence Wright about his eerily prescient new novel on pandemics, drawing parallels between fiction and the real unfolding crisis. The conversations explore the human, societal, and political consequences of pandemics—and the unique strengths and vulnerabilities of different styles of governance in coping with them.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Life Under Quarantine in China (Peter Hessler, 00:50–05:39)

• Experiencing Quarantine in Chengdu

  • Peter Hessler describes living under enforced isolation with his family since late January:
    • “We’ve been quarantined since, you know, January, late January. We have two nine year olds ... My kids have not seen another kid their age for more than a month.” (01:03)
  • The strictness of quarantine varies by building and social status: some compounds allow only one person per household out every two days.
  • Hessler’s relatively upscale building lets residents come and go, but only with tracking cards.

• Societal Response and Daily Life

  • Convenience stores and small markets stayed open, and food shortages were rare due to robust online services.
  • Hessler observes quirky quarantine behavior, e.g., “... the weird shit people buy during this time. Like there’s some guy upstairs [who] bought a 100 inch television.” (01:39)
  • Mask-wearing is mandatory and policed socially: “If you don’t have it, people get angry ... people would scream at me [when I run] ... they would go totally ballistic.” (02:29)

• Authoritarian Response and Its Double-Edged Sword

  • Visible power of local government: “There’s a big sign in front of our building that actually has all the local government officials and their phone numbers and their pictures, which is a very unusual thing to have in China.” (03:10)
  • Violations of privacy are routine, with names of infected residents published.
  • Hessler challenges the Western notion that the outbreak threatens the Chinese Communist Party: “I think this really reinforces their strength. I think it actually makes more people have faith in them.” (03:47)

• Concerns Beyond Public Health

  • Worries about mental health and social cohesion:
    • “To me, like, mental health is a big issue. And to me, like, being free from fear is a big part of that.” (04:04)
    • Elevator scenes where neighbors turn away or avoid proximity illustrate psychological aftermath.
  • Hessler argues for more nuanced and targeted quarantine measures, foreseeing the disease’s persistence:
    • “It’s not like you do this and then it’s done. It’s going to come back.” (05:37)

2. Pandemic in Fiction, Pandemic in Reality (Lawrence Wright, 06:46–18:37)

• Economic and Civic Upheaval in the U.S.

  • South by Southwest's cancellation in Austin means $350 million lost and widespread hardship for gig workers (07:10).
  • Even before local cases, dramatic reduction in public life: “I only see a handful of students walking around. It’s really quite striking, even in Austin.” (07:51)

• Pandemics’ Lasting Effects on Society

  • Viruses can change public health, politics, and built environments more than the pathogens themselves:
    • “Cities have been built ... because of cholera ... the enduring effects of those cholera plagues is still with us.” (08:40)

• Wright’s Novel: The End of October

  • Inspired by influenza, set in Indonesia and Saudi Arabia, imagines a pandemic seeded by immune-compromised refugees and spread via travel to the Hajj (09:13).
  • The plot’s global political context—unresponsive U.S. president, geopolitical friction—mirrors real-world conditions:
    • “Honestly, I read the paper and I feel like I’m reading another chapter of my own book.” (10:52)

• Real Versus Fictional Quarantine Responses

  • Fictional quarantine of Hajj seemed bold—real Chinese quarantine of 750 million people was more extreme:
    • “My own imagination would have balked at such a stupendous effort.” (11:18)

• Pandemics’ Unfolding Consequences

  • Disavows the trope of a return to “normalcy”—pandemics change history:
    • “Those great pandemics of the past ... affected the outcome of wars, affected the mortality of humanity for years to come.” (12:44)
  • Despite medical triumphs in the 20th century, new threats (SARS, MERS) have emerged and been only somewhat contained.

3. Governmental Strengths & Weaknesses Exposed (13:37–18:37)

• American Preparedness and Response

  • Criticizes dismantling of pandemic response teams early in the Trump administration and CDC budget cuts:
    • “We were handicapped going out of the gate.” (13:49)
  • Difference with China: “America is not a country like China that will easily lock up cities and partition states … the trust is going to be that people will take care of themselves, but that’s not really going to happen.” (14:19)

• Authoritarian vs. Democratic Responses

  • Suppression and secrecy are the downsides of authoritarianism:
    • Refers to early suppression of outbreak by Chinese authorities—“that young doctor … was suppressed. And of course, he eventually died.” (15:06)
    • Recalls reports during SARS of sick patients being hidden from WHO officials.
  • But China’s system enables more extreme disease control:
    • “A government that is as authoritarian and brutal as the Chinese government can enforce a quarantine that I don’t think any other country … would be able to attempt.” (15:54)

• Long-term Threats to Democracy

  • Political assembly is disrupted—uncertain future for elections, conventions, rallies:
    • “What’s going to happen with the conventions? How about voting? … This is not a good time to be going out to mass rallies.” (16:59)
  • Wright is candid about his own initial lack of action despite his knowledge:
    • “Good evidence is I didn’t unload my stocks. I didn’t take any of the precautions that a person, given all the knowledge that I had, should have done.” (16:21)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Social Pressures in Quarantine:
  • “If you don’t have [a mask], people get angry ... they would go totally ballistic.”
    — Peter Hessler (02:29)
• On State Authority in Crisis:
  • “I think this really reinforces their strength. I think it actually makes more people have faith in [the Communist Party].”
    — Peter Hessler (03:47)
• On Living Through Fiction:
  • “I read the paper and I feel like I’m reading another chapter of my own book. And unfortunately, real life seems to have taken the form of art and outraced even some of my imagination.”
    — Lawrence Wright (10:52)
• On the Limits of Quarantine:
  • “Quarantine is not a cure by any means … its only goal, really, is to forestall the advance of a disease so that time can be used to develop some kind of vaccine or cure.”
    — Lawrence Wright (11:18)
• On the Enduring Effects of Pandemics:
  • “Those great pandemics of the past are tremendous scars on history. They affected the outcome of wars, affected the mortality of humanity for years to come.”
    — Lawrence Wright (12:44)
• On Threats to Democracy:
  • “This is not a good time to be going out to mass rallies.”
    — Lawrence Wright (16:59)
• Hope From the Front Lines:
  • “There should be at least some hope from this novel in that there are these really ingenious, courageous people that are involved in fighting it ... that really impresses me and I have a lot of confidence in them.”
    — Lawrence Wright (17:42)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:50 – 05:39: Peter Hessler on daily life and state authority in quarantined Chengdu, China
• 06:46 – 12:23: Lawrence Wright introduces his novel and discusses real vs. fictional pandemic response
• 13:49 – 18:37: Comparing U.S. and Chinese responses; threats to democracy; lasting cultural and political impacts

Episode Tone & Style

The conversations are candid, insightful, and at times laced with dry humor; both guests speak plainly about the psychological, civic, and political effects of quarantine, balancing calm analysis with an undercurrent of urgency and empathy.

For more reporting and storytelling on the pandemic and much else, visit newyorker.com.