The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: Margaret Atwood, Evangelizing Against Climate Change, and Greek Tragedy

Date: April 14, 2017
Host: David Remnick (WNYC Studios & The New Yorker)

Episode Overview

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour weaves together profiles, storytelling, and in-depth interviews, focusing on three main themes: the struggle to communicate the urgency of climate change (especially to skeptical audiences), the sudden renewed relevance of Margaret Atwood’s "The Handmaid's Tale" in the Trump era, and the power of ancient Greek tragedy to catalyze healing and dialogue among military veterans. The episode features heartfelt, sometimes humorous vignettes and tough conversations, with notable guests like climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe, novelist Margaret Atwood, Pulitzer-winning critic Hilton Als, and theater director Brian Dorries.

Segment 1: Humor and the Work-from-Home Blues (00:02–03:33)

• Starts with a tongue-in-cheek sketch, “911, What’s Your Emergency?” spoofing a 911 call from a man (played by Bill Hader), listless in pandemic-like isolation, unable to distinguish pajamas from jeans, snacking, lost in the distractions of working from home.
• Notable quote:
  “You went from meerkats straight to pornography.”
  — 911 Operator Charisse (Kristen Wiig) [02:50]
• Sets a humorous but oddly poignant tone about isolation and distraction in modern life.

Segment 2: Katharine Hayhoe on Evangelizing Against Climate Change (03:33–15:44)

Connecting Faith and Science

• Katharine Hayhoe is profiled as a unique voice—an evangelical Christian and top climate scientist at Texas Tech, known for her skill in speaking to conservative, skeptical audiences.
• Hayhoe’s approach isn’t about overwhelming with facts:
  • She begins with shared values or concerns (faith, local water issues) before introducing climate data.
  • Notable quote:
    “The first thing I do is not pulling out the science... the absolute worst thing that we can do in any argument.”
    — Katharine Hayhoe [04:59]

Personal Story: Converting a Climate Skeptic

• Hayhoe describes how her husband, from a Republican background, was initially a climate skeptic.
  • The turning point: downloading NASA’s temperature data and looking at it first-hand.
  • Notable quote:
    “What was the simplest choice? Was NASA involved in... a worldwide conspiracy, or was NASA... correct when they said the planet was warming?”
    — Katharine Hayhoe [08:03]

Resistance to Change

• Resistance isn’t about disbelief in science but “solution aversion”: fear of government control, loss of freedoms.
  • Example: a Texan water manager agrees with the science but fears, “I don’t want the government setting my thermostat.” [09:13]

Politics, Denial, and Real Motivations

• Hayhoe: Many climate-denying politicians privately acknowledge the truth but avoid action for political survival.
• The bipartisan Climate Solutions Caucus offers hope but reveals the real risks elected officials face, using Bob Inglis’s ouster as a cautionary tale for Republicans admitting belief in climate science. [13:38]
• Hayhoe gets more criticism from Christians for being a scientist than from scientists for being a Christian.
  • Notable quote:
    “Our faith has been hijacked by our politics, and climate change is one of the biggest casualties.”
    — Katharine Hayhoe [15:42]

Segment 3: Margaret Atwood and the "Handmaid’s Tale" Phenomenon (15:53–33:17)

Atwood as Realist, Not Prophet

• After Trump’s election, "The Handmaid’s Tale" sales soar, with the public drawing analogies to a dystopian future.
• Atwood insists her work is a reflection—not an invention—of reality:
  • Notable quote:
    “I didn’t create that world. I reflected that world. And I put nothing into the book that had not already happened at some point, at some time to someone.”
    — Margaret Atwood [16:09 & 21:06]

The Roots of Distopia & Reaction to Trump Era

• Discussion about why the book’s themes resonate without the government literally following the novel’s script.
• Atwood explains that Trump’s supporters rationalize his role via biblical examples—using unrighteous men as tools for a perceived greater good. [22:02]
• Atwood’s childhood in Canada’s wilderness shaped her—books, nature, and freedom from strict gender expectations.
  • “They just had a lot of activities that they loved to do and could do chums things together, like canoe trips. But you don’t do canoe trips in a frilly dress.” [26:49]

Gender Roles and Feminism

• Reflects on growing up with unspoken gender divisions but not feeling constrained by them herself.
• Atwood discusses the meaning(s) of “feminist” and her stance:
  • “Women are human beings. Hand up? Yes, I’m for that... What I’m not for is some notion that women, because they’re women... are more virtuous and noble.” [29:49]

Legacy and Literary Immortality

• Atwood is unconcerned with being eternally defined by "The Handmaid’s Tale":
  • “Will I care? Assume at the point at which it’s going to define me I will be dead... typically happens to a well known writer when they die is... people lose interest.” [31:25, 31:58]

Segment 4: Hilton Als on Criticism and Representation (33:17–39:17)

• Hilton Als, fresh from his Pulitzer win for criticism, discusses his mission to bring stories of people of color into the mainstream literary and theater conversation at The New Yorker.
  • “It was very important to not make color a specialty item, that it was part of the conversation.” [36:36]
• He celebrates diversity in theater and finds renewal in up-and-coming playwrights—not in another revival of classics.
• Memorable theater experiences include The Blacks at Harlem’s Classical Theater and Bette Midler’s performances, highlighting acting that is about giving everything to the audience. [38:41]

Segment 5: Greek Tragedy and Theater of War (39:29–54:17)

The Power of Ancient Drama

• Brian Dorries, founder of Theater of War, describes performing Sophocles’ tragedies (like "Ajax" and "Philoctetes") for military audiences, from the Pentagon to VA facilities.
  • “These weren’t simply entertainment, but... a way of passing down really crucial institutional knowledge between generations of veterans...” [40:10, 43:34]

Scenes and Emotional Impact

• Actors perform intense scenes from Sophocles, resonating with themes of abandonment, trauma, and suffering.
  • Notable excerpt: “I am Philoctetes... They left me here to die in tattered rags, sleeping in a jagged cave, starving...” [41:20]

Connecting Ancient Trauma to Modern War

• Panel discussion with journalist Robin Wright:
  • Ancient Greeks openly confronted the traumas of war as civic duty; today, veterans often carry these experiences in silence—leading to stigma and distance from civilian life.
  • Audience responses reveal the timelessness of emotions around loss, shame, moral injury, and survivor’s guilt.
    • Example: A U.S. Army lieutenant colonel compares a friend’s suicide to Ajax and Philoctetes, vowing “never again” to leave a comrade alone with their suffering. [49:36–51:03]

Tragedy as Healing

• Greek tragedy is not just pessimistic—it offers relief and community through the shared experience of truth.
  • “For audiences, counterintuitively, the response can be one of relief to see themselves reflected in a story.” [51:21]
• Robin Wright concludes that seeing one’s dark thoughts and experiences reflected onscreen or onstage creates community and solace.

Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• “The first thing I do is not pulling out the science... the absolute worst thing that we can do in any argument.”
  — Katharine Hayhoe [04:59]

• “Our faith has been hijacked by our politics, and climate change is one of the biggest casualties.”
  — Katharine Hayhoe [15:42]

• “I didn’t create that world. I reflected that world.”
  — Margaret Atwood [16:09 & 21:06]

• “Women are human beings. Hand up? Yes, I’m for that... What I’m not for is some notion that women, because they’re women... are more virtuous and noble.”
  — Margaret Atwood [29:49]

• “It was very important to not make color a specialty item, that it was part of the conversation.”
  — Hilton Als [36:36]

• “These weren’t simply entertainment, but... a way of passing down really crucial institutional knowledge between generations of veterans...”
  — Brian Dorries [40:10, 43:34]

Key Timestamps of Major Sections

• Work-from-home Satire: 00:02–03:33
• Katharine Hayhoe Interview: 03:33–15:44
• Margaret Atwood Profile/Interview: 15:53–33:17
• Hilton Als and Criticism: 33:17–39:17
• Theater of War/Greek Tragedy for Veterans: 39:29–54:17

Takeaways

• Climate change communication hinges on shared values, not just facts—a lesson for anyone trying to advocate in polarized environments.
• Dystopian literature isn’t predictive fiction, but a tool for examining what societies are capable of, making it continually timely as circumstances shift.
• Ancient Greek tragedy, far from being escapist or purely depressing, can be a powerful bridge for empathy, healing, and communal affirmation among people experiencing trauma—even today.
• Storytelling—whether literary, scientific, or dramatic—remains vital for breaking through isolation and forging shared meaning.

This episode is a rich tapestry of humor, reflection, and urgency, encouraging listeners to seek truth, connect across lines, and draw strength—and clarity—from the stories we share.