Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour
Episode: Michael Wolff on MAGA’s Revolt Over Jeffrey Epstein
Release Date: July 18, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour, host David Remnick engages in a compelling conversation with journalist Michael Wolff, renowned for his in-depth coverage of Donald Trump's political career. The discussion delves into the intricate web connecting Jeffrey Epstein, Donald Trump, and the MAGA movement, exploring the resurgence of conspiracy theories surrounding Epstein's death and their impact on Trump’s ardent supporters.

Epstein's Death and MAGA Backlash

The conversation opens with the aftermath of Jeffrey Epstein's death in prison, which has fueled suspicions among MAGA supporters about a possible White House cover-up. Wolff underscores the magnitude of the backlash, suggesting it may surpass other political crises such as the tariff issues or the U.S. bombing of Iran.

Michael Wolff ([00:11]): "Jeffrey Epstein's death in prison and the sense that the White House is somehow covering something up is causing a backlash from some of Trump's most ardent supporters. It may be a bigger backlash than even the tariff crisis or the bombing of Iran..."

Wolff explains that within MAGA circles, there is a prevailing belief that Epstein's suicide was orchestrated by Democrats to silence him due to the sensitive information he possessed.

Michael Wolff's Relationship with Epstein

Wolff reveals his direct interactions with Epstein, having conducted over 100 taped interviews in the years leading up to Epstein's arrest and subsequent death in 2019. He discusses his initial reluctance to rehabilitate Epstein's image despite Epstein's disturbing background.

Michael Wolff ([02:43]): "He wanted you to write about him. This had nothing to do with Donald Trump. Just to be clear, right."

Wolff emphasizes his skepticism about Epstein's intent to be honest and his personal reservations about portraying Epstein in a rehabilitative light.

Epstein and Trump's Connection

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the longstanding relationship between Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump, dating back to the 1980s. Wolff characterizes their bond as both men being "incredibly amoral" and "out for money and for a good time," sharing similar interests in women and real estate.

Michael Wolff ([06:12]): "Jeffrey Epstein was among the most insightful people I knew or had come upon about Donald Trump and his true character."

Wolff highlights that Epstein provided substantial insights into Trump's personality and character, suggesting a deep and multifaceted relationship.

Steve Bannon's Fear of Epstein

The conversation shifts to Steve Bannon, a prominent figure in Wolff's Trump books, who also had ties with Epstein. Wolff recounts an incident where Bannon expressed fear of Epstein during the 2016 presidential campaign.

Michael Wolff ([10:35]): "Steve Bannon really feared Jeffrey Epstein... 'You were the only person I was afraid of during the campaign,' he told Epstein."

Bannon's apprehension stems from Epstein's knowledge of potentially damaging secrets about Trump, particularly regarding his behavior with women, which could have jeopardized Trump's campaign.

Pam Bondi and the Epstein Client List

Wolff addresses the controversy surrounding Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, who previously claimed to possess Epstein's client list but was later contradicted by the Department of Justice.

Michael Wolff ([12:16]): "Pam Bondi, who's now the Attorney General... said, 'It's sitting on my desk right now to review.'"

Wolff infers that Bondi, aligned with Trump, might be attempting to suppress the Epstein connection to protect the administration from further scrutiny.

MAGA Movement's Future Post-Trump

Discussing the future trajectory of the MAGA movement, Wolff speculates that as Trump enters his "lame duck" years, MAGA supporters are beginning to reposition themselves, potentially distancing from Trump to establish their own leadership within the movement.

Michael Wolff ([16:22]): "They have to begin at some point to position themselves actually against Trump, or at least to push JD Vance... and distinguish themselves."

This internal shift poses challenges as MAGA proponents navigate their identity and influence independent of Trump's direct leadership.

Michael Wolff’s Challenges and Intentions

Facing resistance from mainstream media and publishers hesitant to tackle the Epstein-Trump nexus, Wolff expresses frustration over the lack of coverage and support for his investigative efforts. Despite criticism and challenges, he remains committed to unveiling what he perceives as crucial journalistic information.

Michael Wolff ([22:01]): "Virtually everybody... has turned down this story. And most recently a publisher of mine... responded, 'This is too icky.'"

Wolff acknowledges the potential impact of his extensive interviews with Epstein but remains uncertain about their reception, hoping for a change in the media landscape that will allow him to tell this story.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Wolff emphasizing the importance of journalistic integrity and the responsibility to shed light on the complex relationships intertwining powerful figures like Epstein and Trump. As conspiracy theories within the MAGA movement gain traction, Wolff’s insights aim to provide a deeper understanding of the underlying dynamics at play.

Michael Wolff ([24:29]): "I am the person here who is probably is certainly the journalist closest to this story. And that's my job, if someone would let me do it, to tell this story."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Michael Wolff ([00:11]): "Epstein's death in prison and the sense that the White House is somehow covering something up is causing a backlash from some of Trump's most ardent supporters."

• Michael Wolff ([02:43]): "He wanted you to write about him. This had nothing to do with Donald Trump. Just to be clear, right."

• Michael Wolff ([06:12]): "Jeffrey Epstein was among the most insightful people I knew or had come upon about Donald Trump and his true character."

• Michael Wolff ([10:35]): "Steve Bannon really feared Jeffrey Epstein... 'You were the only person I was afraid of during the campaign,' he told Epstein."

• Michael Wolff ([12:16]): "Pam Bondi, who's now the Attorney General... said, 'It's sitting on my desk right now to review.'"

• Michael Wolff ([16:22]): "They have to begin at some point to position themselves actually against Trump, or at least to push JD Vance... and distinguish themselves."

• Michael Wolff ([22:01]): "Virtually everybody... has turned down this story. And most recently a publisher of mine... responded, 'This is too icky.'"

• Michael Wolff ([24:29]): "I am the person here who is probably is certainly the journalist closest to this story. And that's my job, if someone would let me do it, to tell this story."

This detailed summary encapsulates the key themes and discussions from the episode, providing listeners with an insightful overview of the intricate connections between Jeffrey Epstein, Donald Trump, and the evolving dynamics within the MAGA movement.