The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: My Mother’s Career at “Playboy,” and the Politics of N.F.L. Protest
Airdate: October 17, 2017
Host: David Remnick

Episode Overview

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour explores two powerful stories at the intersection of culture, politics, and personal identity. The first segment examines the NFL protest movement, focusing on Colin Kaepernick and the complex history of race and activism in American sports. The second segment is a candid mother-daughter conversation about working at Playboy magazine during its heyday, delving into questions of feminism, exploitation, and what it meant to be a woman at the magazine’s heart.

1. NFL Protests and the Politics of Race in Sports

Key Voices:

• Jelani Cobb (The New Yorker staff writer)
• Bill Rhoden (Sportswriter, author of "$40 Million Slaves")

The Protest’s Origins and Co-option

• The segment opens with a discussion of Colin Kaepernick, the former San Francisco 49ers quarterback whose decision to kneel during the national anthem in protest against police brutality became a nationwide movement.
  • David Remnick: "the player on everybody's mind hasn't set foot on the field yet even once. Colin Kaepernick… the silent protest… now has a life of its own." (00:50)
• The protest's original intent, addressing police violence, was “hijacked” and became a debate about patriotism and the national anthem, losing its intended focus.
  • Bill Rhoden: "Not only law hijacked, it was hijacked... when the Dallas Cowboys... knelt before the national anthem. I said, well, that defeats the whole purpose. Imagine if Tommie Smith and John Carlos would have raised their fist in the tunnel... The whole point is to make people uncomfortable." (04:35)

Sports as a Mirror for Racial Anxiety

• Sports is identified as a primary arena where American anxieties around race play out.
  • Jelani Cobb: "why do we always seem to find sports being the arena in which American attitudes, especially around race, become front and center?" (02:13)
  • Bill Rhoden: "Our problem in the United States is not race, it's racism... that intersection is now a collision." (02:41)

Historical Context: The Cleveland Summit

• The conversation situates the current protests within a longer tradition, mentioning the Cleveland Summit (1967), where black athletes including Jim Brown and Muhammad Ali took political stands at great personal cost.
  • Bill Rhoden: "That, to me, became my standard of what a black man was or woman or what a black athlete could do in this limelight... How you could use your podium, your stand, your arena, the way Ali did." (07:24)

The Role of Money and Generational Change

• There is a reflection on how, as professional sports became more lucrative, athletes were encouraged to “not rock the boat,” culminating in an era where political action was rare.
  • Bill Rhoden: "That set the tone for generations... If we just don't kind of rock the boat, we can make it." (08:15)

Is Sports Ever Apolitical?

• The national anthem’s presence at games is seen as inherently political, despite calls for athletes to keep politics out of sports.
  • Bill Rhoden: "As soon as you play the national anthem, you politicize the sport... That horse has left the barn a long time ago." (09:09)

What’s Next for Kaepernick?

• Discussion turns to Kaepernick’s legacy and whether his absence from play cements his symbolic status more than a return ever would.
  • Bill Rhoden: "If he doesn't play another down, his name will probably go down... as somebody who's triggered this thing." (10:14)

Memorable Exchange

• On the ritual of the anthem:
  • Jelani Cobb: "Should we do away with playing the anthem altogether?" (11:44)
  • Bill Rhoden: "Yeah, I think so... we've built a whole five week news cycle on about the flag and the national anthem. Give me a break with this stuff..." (11:47)
• On the fantasy of a new unifying song:
  • Jelani Cobb: "I do not think that people are going to replace the national anthem with Funkadelic... It would probably be the most interesting development. One nation underground groove." (12:36)
  • Bill Rhoden: "That's right. That might actually be unifying. That could be a unifying..." (12:48)

2. Working at Playboy: A Mother-Daughter Conversation

Key Voices:

• Janice Moses (Former Photo Editor, Playboy)
• Michelle Moses (Editorial Staff, The New Yorker; Janice’s daughter)

Entering the World of Playboy

• Janice Moses recounts how, at age 19, she started in the Playboy photography department—her first exposure to such an environment.
  • Janice Moses: "I so badly needed a job... of course I had to tell a lie and say, yeah, oh yeah, I've been around nude models before in art class, but truly I hadn't." (15:26)
• Describing meetings with Hugh Hefner and the culture of perfectionism he enforced:
  • Janice Moses: "...when you think about how he was so involved in every detail and for him, money was no object. It was all about perfection..." (16:42)

Tensions on Campus and the Sexual Revolution

• Janice shares a memorable story about organizing a campus photo shoot and being confronted by student protests and a ‘nude-in’, reflecting generational and cultural divides.
  • Janice Moses: "...the boys did a nude in demonstration and clusters of boys came through the windows, running naked... I was terrified for my life. I wanted to get out of there." (18:39)
• Mixed feelings: From inside Playboy, Janice felt empowered, even as outsiders viewed her as part of "the establishment."

Gender, Power, and Personal Liberation

• Janice recalls feeling empowered by her work and responsibility—even as she recognized contradictions.
  • Janice Moses: "I had so much freedom to do and be and work and express myself, that I was like, what's so conservative about us?" (18:48)
  • By age 23, she was managing studio operations: "I was running this whole little section of the business of the photo studio... logistics, production, set building. It fell on my desk at a very young age..." (20:30)
• She also faced gendered inequities—describing being underpaid relative to male colleagues, despite higher productivity.

Moral Complications and Discomfort

• Despite initial enthusiasm, Janice describes growing discomfort with some of Playboy's content as competition from more explicit magazines increased, leading her to question her role and the magazine’s mission.
  • Janice Moses: "I didn't like seeing two girls together in a sexual context... That was when it all came together... it just went to a place that I wasn't comfortable with." (22:45)
  • On gender discrimination: "I remember the day that the guy in the next office got a raise and he was a guy and he got more than me and we did the same job... I never thought that was fair." (23:10)

Media, Empowerment, and the Britney Spears Era

• The conversation shifts to the 1990s–2000s and representations of women in pop culture. Janice recalls her discomfort with the sexualized images of pop stars like Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera, seeing this as a regression for women’s empowerment.
  • Janice Moses: "I just felt... during the Christina Britney era, there was a shift... on the street that I didn't think was going to forward them getting more respect and equal pay... or be respected." (25:17)
  • She distinguishes between the performative nudity of Playboy and real life, noting that the office environment was actually quite conservative by comparison.

Lasting Reflections and Mother-Daughter Bond

• Michelle closes by expressing gratitude for hearing stories about her mother she never knew.
  • Michelle Moses: "It's been really special for me to hear these stories I'd never heard before. So I'm really glad we did this." (27:06)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Bill Rhoden (on the anthem): "As soon as you play the national anthem, you politicize the sport." (09:09)
• Janice Moses (on empowerment at Playboy): "I had so much freedom to do and be and work and express myself..." (18:48)
• Janice Moses (reflecting on leaving): "You have to let it wear at you for a very long time until one day you go, I need out. I can't live my life." (23:16)
• On the fantasy of replacing the anthem with Funkadelic:
  • Jelani Cobb: "I do not think that people are going to replace the national anthem with Funkadelic... It would probably be the most interesting development." (12:36)
  • Bill Rhoden: "That might actually be unifying. That could be a unifying..." (12:48)

Key Segments & Timestamps

• 00:50–13:04: Politics of the NFL protests, race in sports, the hijacking of Kaepernick’s message, legacy of athlete activism, anthem debate.
• 14:23–27:15: Janice Moses’ reflections on Playboy, workplace culture, feminism, generational divides, and conversations with her daughter Michelle.

Tone & Style

The episode balances probing historical and sociological analysis with intimate, personal reflection. Jelani Cobb’s conversation with Bill Rhoden is incisive, direct, and critical, while the mother-daughter dialogue is warm, honest, and occasionally humorous, providing a firsthand account of work and womanhood amid America’s shifting sexual and political landscape.

Conclusion

This episode deftly connects the politics of protest in America's arenas with the everyday, sometimes contradictory experiences of women working at the heart of the sexual revolution. Through both public history and private memory, listeners are invited to question easy narratives about progress, equality, and the ongoing intersections of race, gender, and power.