New Yorker Writers on Hong Kong, and Nixon After Tiananmen Square

Summary

The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: "New Yorker Writers on Hong Kong, and Nixon After Tiananmen Square"
Host: David Remnick
Date: October 11, 2019

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Episode Overview

This episode is divided into two distinct sections.

• First, David Remnick speaks with New Yorker writers Evan Osnos and Jiayang (Jiang) Fan about their recent trips to China and Hong Kong, exploring the emotional tenor, political fallout, and international dimensions of the ongoing Hong Kong protests against Beijing's tightening control.
• Second, the episode turns to an evocative reading of Michael Korda’s 1994 New Yorker essay, “Nixon Mein Host,” recounting a surreal dinner at Richard Nixon’s home just months after the Tiananmen Square massacre, with Nixon acting as an informal, shadow diplomat.

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I. Hong Kong Protests and US-China Relations

(00:11–18:31)

Main Topics Covered:

• Emotional climate of the Hong Kong protests
• Composition and motivations of protesters
• Beijing’s perspective and media response
• Fears of a crackdown à la Tiananmen Square
• Surveillance, technology, and protester tactics
• Xi Jinping’s consolidation of power
• Trump’s silence on Hong Kong, and how that's viewed
• How Chinese officials see American politics
• China’s attitude to possible US election outcomes

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A. The Mood and Make-up of the Protests

(00:11–03:40)

• Jiang Fan: 80% of protest participants are middle and working class, spanning “from probably 20 to 75” years old.
  • Quote: “They are there to support the freedom that they have understood to be part and parcel of Hong Kong society,” but most resist being labeled “frontline protesters”–those “wearing gas masks, clad in all black” and using extreme measures. (01:24–02:24)
• The movement began with specific demands about extradition, but grievance and anger have grown, especially since the failure of 2014's Umbrella Movement.
  • Quote: “There was just this rising panic that Hong Kong was becoming like another mainland city… under the thumb of the Communist Party.” (02:41–03:38)

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B. Views from Beijing

(03:41–06:35)

• Evan Osnos: In Beijing, the protests are “described…as a ‘separatist movement’”—a threat to the integrity of Chinese territory.
  • Quote: “By talking about it as an assault on Chinese territory, that's tapping into a very deep political well.” (04:04–05:10)
• Xi is “unlikely to give in to protesters’ demands,” but faces pressure not to repeat “the events of 1989”—a bloody crackdown would devastate Hong Kong’s economic role and China’s global image.
  • Quote: “China will keep up the pressure and gradually use its sheer weight and persistence to try to grind down the resistance of protesters in Hong Kong.” (05:20–06:35)

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C. Fears of a Crackdown and Strategies of Protest

(06:36–09:30)

• Protesters fear possible military intervention, but some younger activists express a “sense of nihilism”—if tanks roll in, let the world see it.
  • Quote: “If the tanks really do roll in, let the world see how brutal the communist regime is.” (06:49–07:38)
• Surveillance is omnipresent; protesters disguise themselves fully, fearing AI might identify them—even by ear shape.
  • Jiang Fan: “They are so fully armored in scarves, masks… even their ears.” (07:51–08:19)
• Osnos: The government optimizes authoritarian control with ubiquitous technology.
  • Quote: "Technology allows that. Now, one of the ways that this government imagines that it's going to try to extend its longevity..." (08:30–09:30)

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D. Xi Jinping’s Power and Personality

(09:31–11:03)

• Xi consolidated power through a popular anti-corruption campaign that simultaneously eliminated rivals.
• Cultivated a “cult of personality”: “He thinks that he really is, you know, a national deity. ...Only he can lead the country into super power status.” (09:43–11:03)

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E. How Xi Sees Trump, and China's Cynical View of US Politics

(11:04–12:34)

• Osnos: Xi’s style is reticent and strategic; to him, Trump is “utterly mystifying.”
  • Quote: “Xi Jinping has no trust in what Donald Trump tells him. He doesn't trust him on the trade war…." (11:16–12:34)

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F. Hong Kong’s Views on Trump’s Silence

(12:35–14:56)

• Protesters wave American flags, hoping for US support—despite knowing Trump ignores human rights issues.
  • Quote Jiang Fan: "All I need is for some of the politicians in Washington to see … how exactly critical the situation is here.” (13:00–13:45)
• Pro-Beijing Hong Kongers are glad Trump doesn't prioritize democracy or human rights; they see Hong Kong as just another bargaining chip.
  • Quote: “Many of the pro Beijing folks I talk to are fairly happy that Trump is in command right now.” (14:09–14:56)

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G. China and US Politics

(14:57–18:23)

• China, unlike Russia, prefers to avoid overt US election interference, using intelligence gathered for strategic prediction, not public disruption.
  • Quote Osnos: “China would be much happier to watch the United States go through its own paroxysms of political disorder than to risk...some American backlash by actively intervening.” (15:49–16:51)
• Chinese officials are wary of Democrats like Elizabeth Warren (“someone who will not let China get away with what it does within its borders”) and view Biden as a “known quantity.” Trump confounds them.
  • Jiang Fan: “Elizabeth Warren is someone that China would not want to win the election.” (16:58–17:35)
  • Osnos: “They are at this point totally undone by Donald Trump and they don't really believe that he would be a reliable counterparty.” (17:36–18:23)

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II. Richard Nixon, Shadow Statesman After Tiananmen

(20:08–35:31)

Overview:

A dramatized reading from Michael Korda’s account of a stag dinner at Nixon’s New Jersey home in 1989, months after Tiananmen Square, featuring Chinese diplomats and American statesmen. Nixon performs diplomatic theater, downplays the massacre, and seeks continued rapprochement with China.

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Key Moments:

A. Nixon’s Persona and Setting

(20:08–21:29)

• Nixon described as larger-than-life, with a “rumbling basso profundo” voice and an imposing presence—even in exile.

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B. The Stag Dinner and Ritual

(21:29–25:50)

• The dinner is formal, almost stilted. Guests deliver reports; Nixon responds in monologues, often referring to himself in the third person.
  • Notable Nixon line (performed by Greg Stirling):

  “When Nixon was president and leader of the free world…” (25:50–26:02)

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C. The Aftermath of Tiananmen & Nixon’s Shadow Diplomacy

(25:50–29:24)

• The main topic: Should Nixon visit China given the recent massacre?
  • Nixon urges that “great powers cannot allow their foreign policy to be determined by the scruples or prejudices of the liberal media,” minimizing the massacre’s significance.
  • Nixon tells the Chinese:

  “When Nixon was president and leader of the free world, ...we had troubles of our own in the United States. We too had so called student riots, protests, anarchy in the streets of Washington. ...Firmness paid—you tell them that.” (27:37–29:24)

  • The Chinese appreciative; Han Xu raises his glass, thankful for Nixon's “understanding.”

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D. Epilogue: Nixon’s Gift and the Illusion of Power

(30:23–35:31)

• Nixon gives Han Xu a copy of Witness by Whittaker Chambers, reinforcing his anti-communist legacy.
• The episode ends with a poignant reflection: Nixon maintains the illusion of being “still the President,” his home styled as an “expensive hotel suite, or...the White House,” with rooms “unlived-in.”
  • Poignant closing image:

    “It was a testimony to Nixon's power that he could make his world, the world of exile, seem more real than the world around him…” (34:24–35:20)

  • Nixon’s last line, on seeing Korda’s Porsche:

  “What the hell is that?” (35:20)

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Memorable Quotes

• Jiang Fan, on the mood in Hong Kong:

  “There was just this rising panic that Hong Kong was becoming like another mainland city utterly under the thumb of the Communist Party.” (03:38)

• Evan Osnos, on Beijing’s handling:

  “China will keep up the pressure and gradually use its sheer weight and persistence to try to grind down the resistance of protesters in Hong Kong.” (06:35)

• Jiang Fan, on protesters’ resolve:

  “If the tanks really do roll in, let the world see how brutal the communist regime is.” (06:49)

• Osnos, on Xi Jinping’s perception of Trump:

  “Xi Jinping looks across the table at Donald Trump and finds him utterly mystifying.” (11:16)

• Michael Korda, on Nixon’s shadow presidency:

  “He could make his world, the world of exile, seem more real than the world around him, that he could create somehow the illusion that he was still the President...” (34:24–35:20)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro/Context: (00:11–01:24)
• Hong Kong Protests – On the Ground: (01:24–03:38)
• Beijing’s Perception: (04:04–06:35)
• Protester Fears, Surveillance, Tactics: (06:36–09:30)
• Xi Jinping Consolidates Power: (09:31–11:03)
• Trump, US Politics, and China’s Response: (11:04–18:23)
• Michael Korda Essay – Nixon After Tiananmen: (20:08–35:31)

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Tone and Language

• The tone is analytical yet accessible, with vivid narrative touches especially in the Nixon segment.
• Both Osnos and Fan deliver nuanced, firsthand reportage, often amplifying the voices and anxieties of those on the ground.
• Nixon’s segment is gently satirical but deeply revealing, painted with Korda’s literary flair and performed with dry wit.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode provides a sweeping look at the crisis in Hong Kong and its global reverberations—from the street-level fear and anger among Hong Kongers, through the closed-circle calculations in Beijing, to the confusion of US-China relations in the Trump era. The Nixon segment offers a darkly comic, insightful window into the foreign-policy “afterlife” of America’s ex-presidents, and how history’s strongmen—East and West—frame the question of “firmness” after political violence. The episode is a rare blend of reportage, analysis, and literary portraiture, capturing the complexity and contradictions of US-China engagement past and present.

Transcript

[Jiang Fan]

From One World Trade center in Manhattan, this is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of WNYC studios and the New Yorker.

[David Remnick]

Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Donald Trump has made China one of the defining issues of his presidency. He seems to have done everything he can to provoke China. He's ignited a trade war. He's escalated tensions over North Korea and much more. And yet, instead of backing the pro democracy protesters and in Hong Kong, Trump has reportedly told President Xi Jinping that the United States would remain silent about democracy as they worked out their trade deal. The protests in Hong Kong against Beijing's rule have been going on now for months. Combined with slowing economic growth across the country, they've created a political crisis for Xi Jinping. Right at a time when the Communist Party is supposed to be celebrating its 70th year in power. The situation is more serious than anything since the Tiananmen Square uprising a generation ago. Two of our staff writers are recently back from China. Evan Osnos and Jae Yong Fan Jiang. You just got back from Hong Kong, and I want to get a sense first the emotional tenor of what's going on in the streets. What kinds of people are participating, and what's the feeling out there?

[Jiang Fan]

I would say 80% of the participants are middle class, working class. They range in age from probably 20 to 75. The folks I spoke to feel just so strongly that they are there to support the freedom that they have understood to be part and parcel of Hong Kong society. I think many of them are undecided about how far they're willing to go, and most of them would claim they're not. What's known as frontline protesters?

[David Remnick]

What does a frontline protester mean?

[Jiang Fan]

Right. A frontline protester is the ones that have been featured so prominently in Western media, the ones wearing the gas masks, clad in all black. They occasionally throw the Molotov cocktails and resort to more extreme measures. I think it's really important to point out that that's a pretty minor fraction of the overall community of protesters.

[David Remnick]

Now, my understanding is that this began with fairly limited demands. It had to do with extradition, for example, and with time, that has broadened. And do these protesters have the sense that they can keep apart from Beijing indefinitely?

[Jiang Fan]

When I pose that question to protesters, many of them don't have a very clearly defined answer. And I would dare to say that many of them probably don't even know themselves. What they do feel is the anger that comes from the failure of the Umbrella movement, which happened in 2014 over this fight for universal suffrage that did not succeed, and this accumulated sense of anger and grievances that have not properly been met in any way. It's important to say that Hong Kong was never a democracy, even under Britain, but they felt that this was the direction in which they were moving. So there was just this rising panic that Hong Kong was becoming like another mainland city utterly under the thumb of the Communist Party.

[David Remnick]

So real fear of being sucked in.

[Jiang Fan]

Exactly.

[David Remnick]

So while Chiang was in Hong Kong, Evan, on the front lines and dodging Molotov cocktails and the rest, you were in Beijing for the 70th anniversary of the revolution. How were the Chinese officials that you were talking to talking about Hong Kong, and how was the Hong Kong drama playing out on the Chinese media?

[Evan Osnos]

Well, the contrast really couldn't be more stark in Beijing. The subject of Hong Kong and its protests has nothing to do with idealism or with young people who are trying to create economic opportunities for themselves or to hold off Beijing's control. It is described in Beijing consistently as a, quote, separatist movement. They think of it as an attempt to try to divide Chinese territory, which, after all, is this very visceral, very specific accusation, because any Chinese person will tell you that the country, over the course of history, has been invaded and has been carved up. And so by talking about it as an assault on Chinese territory, that's tapping into a very deep political well. And they were doing that to a great extent recently because, after all, they're celebrating 70 years of the People's Republic of China. And one of the ways that they're doing that is by saying, we have been able to pull together the country in ways that previous governments never had. And that means resisting things like these protests in Hong Kong.

[David Remnick]

And how has Xi Jinping handled the protests? Do you expect that the crackdown will become more violent, more stringent than it's already been?

[Evan Osnos]

Well, I would not expect that they're going to give in to the protesters demands. Frankly, there was just no indication in Beijing and anybody that I've been talking to involved in the sort of strategy about this subject, thinks that China is ready to make a deal with Hong Kong. But the obvious fear, the thing that people have been worried about, is some sort of repeat of the events of 1989, when China cracked down on demonstrators in Tiananmen Square and you had a massacre in which students and other people in the city were killed. But at the same time, there are very real pressures, I think, that are on Xi Jinping not to handle it the same way they handled it in 1989. If they went into Hong Kong today with tanks, for instance, as they did in Beijing, you know, this would devastate a financial capital that is very important to China's economy. It's got a stock market larger than London's, it's a big source of foreign currency. And more importantly, it would devastate China's effort to try to establish itself on the global stage as an alternative to American leadership. And so I think the more likely scenario is that China will keep up the pressure and gradually use its sheer weight and persistence to try to grind down the resistance of protesters in Hong Kong.

[David Remnick]

Zhang, do you think that people in Hong Kong expect a Tiananmen Square type scenario to take place, or do they feel that that kind of pressure is not on them, that they can go much farther?

[Jiang Fan]

Some of the folks I've talked to certainly think that that is a possibility. There is this sense of Shenzhen right across the border and there being People's Liberation army barracks there, and also an increase of troops even stationed in Hong Kong. I think there is also among the young, this sense of nihilism, this feeling that if the tanks really do roll in, let the world see how brutal the communist regime is. And this is, I would say again, among the 20 to even 10% of the frontline protesters who, for better or worse, command a lot of attention because they're the ones who are, you know, some of them are talking to Western media and they're the ones throwing the Molotov cocktails.

[David Remnick]

One of the things that's most striking watching these protests is the sense of the extensive surveillance network that the Chinese government has put into play. How are the protesters able to get around that or not?

[Jiang Fan]

You'll see in pictures that they are so fully armored in, you know, scarves, masks covering every part of their body. I mean, and you have to imagine these are 90 degree days in Hong Kong and they're covered head to toe, even their ears. And I've been told it's because there is worry or suspicion that the AI is so advanced that even the shape of one's ears can be monitored.

[David Remnick]

And that's true. Or parano, that's paranoia. Or true.

[Jiang Fan]

I think AI is quite sophisticated. I'm not sure to the extent that the ear shapes can be monitored, but that sense of fear is warranted.

[Evan Osnos]

I believe there was a very telling moment when the Hong Kong protesters started to attack the smart lampposts, as they're called. These are the, obviously the sort of Nodes of surveillance that have cameras and listening equipment and so on. And they're, in their own way, these are the perfect expressions, the physical expressions of China's future governance model. It believes that in the future it can optimize the powers of a one party state by doing what an old analog state never could. It could never listen in on every conversation. It could never track people as they moved around a city. Well, technology allows that. Now, one of the ways that this government imagines that it's going to try to extend its longevity, I mean, it is, after all, at a very acute moment in its own history. It's been in power 70 years. It's surpassed the longevity of the Soviet Union. But it is acutely aware that one party states do not have a long lifespan. And so Xi Jinping's personal determination is to try to, in some sense, prevent the inertia of history from coming down on top of it.

[David Remnick]

Zhang Xi Jinping has, for all intents and purposes, made himself president for life. I don't see it any other way. What conditions allowed him to consolidate power so swiftly and effectively?

[Jiang Fan]

I think early on, his corruption campaign, which really won the hearts and minds of the citizenry across China, was a very astute way to fight political enemies. I think when he came to power, he realized that there were still lingering factions. And one has to understand that even within the Communist Party, there's a lot of infighting. And the greatest threat to a political leader is not actually the people protesting or even the economy, but other rivaling factions trying to topple him. I think he also very deftly nursed this cult of personality. He thinks that he really is, you know, a national deity. He has convinced the people that only, only he can lead the country into super power status. The transition really from the century of shame that China has experienced, at least in the Chinese narrative, at the hands of foreign powers to a nation that will ultimate outdo the United States.

[David Remnick]

Well, journalists are known, of course, as great mind readers, so I'll let you exercise that capacity here. How does Xi Jinping see a figure like Donald Trump.

[Evan Osnos]

Take the two of them, put them side by side for a minute. Xi Jinping began his career in the very center of party power, grew up in Beijing. His father was a senior party leader. Xi Jinping spent his entire career essentially moving up the ladder of obscure party posts until eventually, you know, at one point, he was the head of the feed association in a rural province. He makes his way up, becomes governor of provinces, and then finally gets his chance by keeping his Mouth closed. He never let on to his peers what he believed, never created a lot of enemies in the system. And using that method, he made his way to the top. Now look at Donald Trump. They are in every conceivable stylistic and personal way different. And I think Xi Jinping looks across the table at Donald Trump and finds him utterly mystifying. One of the things that's happened over the last two years is that everything that Chinese diplomats and politicians had come to believe about how American politics works has been chucked out the window. And so Xi Jinping has no trust in what Donald Trump tells him. He doesn't trust him on the trade war. He doesn't trust him on these assurances of one thing or another. And so he's coming from a position of total and complete self protection first and do not rely on the United States for anything.

[David Remnick]

It was so interesting to me. I was watching on television some of these protests and you see occasionally an American flag being waved or a British flag being waved. And at the same time, President Trump has been absolutely silent about these protests. He's not said one word of encouragement or praise or pro democratic sentiment. Jiang, how is that being received on the streets of Hong Kong?

[Jiang Fan]

I asked one of the protesters who was wielding the American flag. I asked what her intention was, and she said, in this war, there is no one who is powerful enough to save Hong Kong, except possibly the US and we need to make sure the US knows how exactly critical the situation is here. And then I followed up with a question about Trump and what she thought of Trump's response. And she said, I can't get bogged down the details right now. All I need is for some of the politicians in Washington to see, but.

[David Remnick]

Surely they're aware that this is a president who does not press human rights issues on the Chinese leadership, has not mentioned democratic values to the Chinese leadership. If anything, his greatest emphasis lately, besides trade, which is a big issue, is to get the Chinese, as with other countries, to investigate the Biden family.

[Jiang Fan]

Which is why I think some of the pro Beijing folks that I spoke to is really encouraged, frankly, that Trump won the election instead of Hillary. And the sense that this is not a concern for Washington and, and that at the end of the day, Trump is only interested in making a deal and human rights was never high on his agenda. So when push comes to shove, especially with the trade war, the fact that Trump might be looking for leverage or for kind of pawns, that Hong Kong just might be one of the cards that he has to play, I think many of the pro Beijing folks I talk to are fairly happy that Trump is in command right now.

[David Remnick]

Just recently, Wang Yi, the Chinese foreign minister, said China will never interfere in the internal affairs of the United States, and we trust that the American people are capable of sorting out their own problems. In this context, I ask you both, does that mean that they're likely to take a pass on investigating the Bidens or interfering in the 2020 elections?

[Evan Osnos]

I think, yeah, they do not particularly want to get involved here. I think this is one in which I will take them at face value. And I'll give you one day of point.

[David Remnick]

Why does that make them different from the Russians? The Russians seem to love to thrive on the idea of chaos in American public life as a result of, or at least partly as a result of their interference in the election and by extension, Trump's victory. Why would the Chinese not feel the same way? Chinese thrive on something else.

[Evan Osnos]

Well, China loves the fact that the United States is engaged in these kinds of obviously paralyzing internal fights. That's just been very helpful to China on the world stage. But at the same time, China is prudent about not wanting to provoke any more response than it needs to. And I'll give you a useful bit of history on this, which is that China actually, we know this. This is not a hidden fact. China hacked into the 2008 campaign to US intelligence agencies, but it never weaponized the information. It never used it, it never pushed it back out into the public sphere the way that Russia did. What it did is it really used it for intelligence gathering purposes. It hoovered up this stuff and held onto it for its own sense of trying to predict what was going to happen. China would be much happier to watch the United States go through its own paroxysms of political disorder than to risk the possibility of engendering some American backlash by actively intervening.

[David Remnick]

Jiang and Evan, if you had to guess, who are the Chinese rooting for to win the presidential election and why?

[Jiang Fan]

I think that Elizabeth Warren is someone that China would not want to win the election. The sense that she is someone who seems to have convictions about human rights and someone who will not let China get away with what it does within its borders, I think is worrying. I think someone like Bernie Sanders is someone who can be more attractive because Bernie at least doesn't seem to have much interest in getting involved.

[David Remnick]

Evan.

[Evan Osnos]

In general, the Communist Party prefers Republican presidents in the United States because they're in a sense, more likely to be business oriented. They're going to be pro trade and so on. But this Republican president has scrambled the circuits to such a degree in Beijing that they really don't know. And they're in some sense they're edging towards the known quantities. They've worked with Joe Biden as a vice president. They feel a little bit more familiar with him. He's frankly one of the only names that they really know out of this field. So they're watching it very carefully. But they are at this point totally undone by Donald Trump and they don't really believe that he would be a reliable counterparty.

[David Remnick]

Evan Osnos and Jiang Fan, I know you're still suffering from jet lag coming back from China. My thanks to you.

[Evan Osnos]

Thanks, David.

[Jiang Fan]

Thanks so much.

[David Remnick]

Jiang Fan and Evan Osnos both are staff writers and you can read all their coverage of [e-mail] now the Turkish offensive against the Kurds in Syria has put our longtime allies in horrendous danger and casualties are mounting. On our podcast, Politics and More, Dexter Filkins joins Dorothy Wickenden to talk about the Turkish invasion and how the president's withdrawal of US Troops has outraged even some of his die hard supporters, including Lindsey Graham. Dexter covered the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and he'll explain why the power vacuum created by the United States pullout is so dangerous. That's in Politics and More, a podcast from the New Yorker, and there's more to come here on the New Yorker Radio Hour, so stick around. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. Thanks for being with us today. I'm David Remnick. For reasons that are pretty obvious, Richard Nixon's name has been coming up all the time in the news lately. And one of the most acute portraits of the late president was an essay by Michael Korda that ran in the New Yorker in 1994. Corda got to know Nixon pretty well during the long years after the ex president left Washington.

[Michael Korda]

There is a theory that great men have large heads and prominent features. Think of Charles de Gaulle in his nose, LBJ in his years, FDR and his jaw. And by this standard, if no other, Richard Nixon had reached greatness. His head was enormous. His jowls and ski jump nose were just as cartoonists had always portrayed them. His eyes dark and penetrating. Most striking of all was his voice, a deep, rumbling basso profundo, rather like an avalanche in the distance.

[David Remnick]

Michael Korda and Nixon weren't exactly friends. Corder was his editor. He worked on the books that Nixon published with Simon and schuster. And in 1989, he was invited to a dinner at Nixon's home in Saddle River, New Jersey. And on that night, it turned out the former President was conducting a little shadow diplomacy of his own. Something very much on our minds right now. Here's Dylan Baker reading from Michael Korda's account of that night with Greg stirring as Richard Nixon.

[Michael Korda]

Within a mile or so of a New Jersey commercial strip full of mini malls and service stations, Nixon's house was tucked away as secretly as Shangri La behind high, dense growths of trees and hedges. It was impossible for any casual intruder to find, rather like any number of cul de sacs in Bel Air, but without palm trees. Nixon's staff had presented me with careful instructions on how to reach the house, but it seemed a little puzzled that I was driving myself. Their puzzlement became clear as I pulled up before the entrance. A row of limousines to one side made it evident that next, Nixon's guests tended to be driven by chauffeurs. I had driven my silver Porsche. The courtyard was a blacktop space big enough for a good sized motel. The security people at the door seemed uncertain what to make of the car, though whether because it was frivolous or foreign, I wasn't sure. Inside, I found most of my fellow guests milling about in the entrance hall, looking suitably solemn. I recognized Robert Abplenaup, a large, jovial looking man who had been in the limelight as a Nixon backer and personal friend during Watergate. There was the CEO of Archer Daniels Midland, an Assistant Secretary of State, and a former US Representative to NATO. There were also three Chinese gentlemen, all with the bland, inscrutable faces of professional diplomats. The senior of them was Han Shu, China's departing ambassador. There were no women present. It was to be a stag dinner. Nixon appeared at the top of the stairs at exactly the moment we had been summoned for. He descended halfway, stretched out his arms, just as he used to do when he was campaigning with a broad smile.

[Greg Stirling]

Gentlemen, the good news is the bar is open.

[Michael Korda]

As I was shortly to discover, drinks in the Nixon household were not to be taken or even held lightly. They were served in immense heavy tumblers, and every time a guest took a sip, Nixon, who had an eagle eye as a host, would attract the butler's attention.

[Greg Stirling]

It better freshen up Mr. Korda's drink.

[Michael Korda]

I ordered one of his famous daiquiris made with almost no sugar, the recipe for which was said to be one of his more closely guarded secrets. The President claimed to make the best daiquiri ever, and I can report that it lived up to expectations. What I was not prepared for was the odd formality that he imposed on himself and his guests. There was no conversation as such. One guest had just returned that day from Paris, where the Cambodian talks were going on. Nixon asked him to give us a report on the subject, which he did at some length while we sat and listened. When he was through, Nixon gave us his views on the subject, during which absolute silence reigned while the butler freshened up our drinks. The three Chinese men, who were presumably accustomed to feigning interest at the interminable meetings of the Communist Party, gave these disquisitions their full, rapt attention while most of the Americans gently slumbered, arms crossed in front of them, chins resting on their chests. What kept my attention focused was not the subject of Cambodia, but the fact that Nixon was in the habit of referring to himself in the third person, something I had never heard anyone do before, not even members of the British royal family.

[Greg Stirling]

When Nixon was president, he'd say, his.

[Michael Korda]

Dark eyes flickering over his guests as if he expected one of us to challenge him.

[Greg Stirling]

When Nixon was president and leader of.

[Michael Korda]

The free world, as if leader of the free world were also an office to which he had been elected. Roused by the announcement that dinner was ready, we filed into the dining room, where the first course proved to be a contribution from Mr. Abplanau, who had branched out from manufacturer of aerosol valves for spray cans to entrepreneur of smoked fish. While we ate our smoked tuna, smoked trout, and smoked salmon, the real purpose of the dinner became apparent. The massacre of the Chinese student protesters in Tiananmen Square had occurred only two months earlier, and Nixon was debating whether he should continue with his plans to revisit China. The former representative and ambassador to NATO, Robert Ellsworth, brought up the key question, the piece de resistance, as it were, which was how America was reacting to Tiananmen Square and whether Nixon should go to Beijing. Han Shu and the other diplomats came to full attention. At this, I could not help admiring the way Nixon had managed to get somebody else to raise the question, and the way he gave it careful scrutiny, as if it had caught him by surprise. He knotted his brows.

[Greg Stirling]

I believe that there is more to be gained by going than not some people.

[Michael Korda]

He frowned darkly.

[Greg Stirling]

Some people, naysayers, parlor liberals, professional skeptics would doubtless criticize Nixon. Nixon is used to that. It's never stopped Nixon in the past.

[Michael Korda]

The Chinese nodded.

[Greg Stirling]

Great powers cannot allow their foreign policy to be determined by the scruples or prejudices of the liberal media.

[Michael Korda]

A deeper nod, with a hint of puzzlement from the Chinese, for whom media scruples were surely not a problem.

[Greg Stirling]

The interests and the good relations of two such powers as China and the United States are more important than transitory events. Ordinary Americans like and respect China and are not dismayed by the horror stories.

[Michael Korda]

He leaned close to Han Xu, who continued to eat methodically and with enthusiasm while the translator whispered in his ear.

[Greg Stirling]

When Nixon was president and leader of the free world, we had troubles of our own in the United States. We too had so called student riots, protests, anarchy in the streets of Washington. When you go home, you tell your people that many of us understand. When Nixon was president and leader of the free world, he found that firmness paid you tell them that.

[Michael Korda]

The Chinese smiled for the first time. Firmness had so far been a hard sell for them in the United States, even in the Bush White House, where running over students with tanks was seen at the very least as poor PR for the Beijing regime. Han Shoe finished what was on his plate, put his knife and fork down neatly, and raised his glass of red wine. A gift from the president of France, we had been informed. In a gesture of gratitude, not quite a toast, but by no means casual either, he whispered something to the translator. He is grateful for the president's understanding, the translator said. He will communicate it all home.

[David Remnick]

Good.

[Michael Korda]

We withdrew to a somber room with a huge rough stone fireplace while my fellow guests got down to the serious business of the evening, Telling old political war stories from the Nixon campaign and drinking monster Stingers, I followed Nixon, who had offered to show the diplomats around the house. Most of the rooms had a certain formal unlived in quality, rather like an expensive hotel suite, or, more to the point, the White House. The unlived in feeling apparently extended to Nixon. At one point he opened a closet door, apparently thinking that it was the door to his study, then slammed it shut hastily with a muttered oath. Like people lost in a museum. We circled aimlessly for some time, admiring the ceremonial gifts on display that Nixon had received from other heads of state. Lucky. On the second try, he flung open the door to his study and ushered us in.

[Greg Stirling]

This is where Nixon works.

[Michael Korda]

It was difficult to imagine any work being done in this unused room. It had something of the quality of a stage set furnished with expensive new props. There was not a paper in sight, and the desktop, like everything else in the room, was polished, spotless, and apparently brand new.

[Greg Stirling]

This is the desk at which Nixon wrote all his books.

[Michael Korda]

He patted its shiny leather top affectionately, as if it were A horse. We stood uncomfortably around the empty desk. And then Nixon told Han Shue that he wanted him to have a souvenir of his visit, something which would convey the American spirit.

[Greg Stirling]

There was a man in the 40s and 50s whom Nixon had always respected as a true patriot, a man who made great sacrifices for the truth and had been martyred. That man wrote a book, one of the most important books of the 20th century. A book that every American ought to read. And not just American either. His message is universal.

[Michael Korda]

Nixon bent down and opened the bottom drawer of his big desk and withdrew a copy of Whitaker Chambers Witness. I was fascinated to see that the drawer was full of hardcover copies of Chambers book. Had Nixon bought up the entire stock? Briefly, Nixon summed up Chambers role in the Alger Hiss case, explaining to the three communist bureaucrats the undoing of a communist conspiracy in the United States and the way the liberal media persecuted all those who had tried to bring the truth to light. Nixon himself not accepted. Han Shu showed every sign of agreement with this view of history. And after Nixon autographed a copy of Witness for him, he clutched it to his bosom as if it were the Holy Grail. We return to the fireplace where the atmosphere fueled with stingers was getting boisterous. Nixon, I could tell, had had enough of the Chinese by now and they seemed to have tired of him too. I took my leave with them. It was a testimony to Nixon's power that he could make his world, the world of exile, seem more real than the world around him, that he could create somehow the illusion that he was still the President, that Watergate had never happened, that the bombing of Cambodia or the shooting of the Kent State students hadn't really mattered, and that Whitaker Chambers was an American hero. Nixon walked us outside to shake hands. He saw the Chinese into their waiting limo, then said good night to me. He looked across the blacktop at my Porsche and studied it carefully.

[Greg Stirling]

What the hell is that?

[David Remnick]

Greg Stirr as Richard Nixon and Dylan Baker reading from Michael Korda's essay Nixon Mein Host. It was published in the New Yorker in 1994. I'm David Remnick and that's it for this week. Please make sure to join us next week when we'll bring you Jane Mayer's interview of one of the most powerful people in America right now, Nancy Pelosi. Till then, have a great week. The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards. With additional music by Alexis Quadrado. This episode was produced by Alex Barron, Emily Bottin, Ave Carrillo, Rhiannon Corby, Karen Frillman, Kalalea, David Krasnow, Caroline Lester, Louis Mitchell, Michelle Moses and Stephen Valentino, with help from Allison McAdam, Meng Fei Chen and Emily Mann. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Cherina Endowment Fund.