Podcast Summary:
The New Yorker Radio Hour – Patti Smith on Her Memoir “Bread of Angels,” Fifty Years After Her Début Album, “Horses”
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Patti Smith
Date: November 11, 2025
Episode Overview
In this intimate episode, David Remnick sits down with Patti Smith to reflect on her acclaimed new memoir, Bread of Angels, the 50th anniversary of her groundbreaking album Horses, and the pivotal moments and personal revelations that have shaped her life and art. Their conversation traverses Smith's early creative influences, her move to New York, the complexities of family and self-discovery, the enduring loss of loved ones, and what sustains her sense of belief and hope in a fraught world.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. On Writing the Memoir and Facing Family Revelations
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Writing Process & Challenges
- The memoir took a decade to complete, delayed by painful personal events and the challenge of writing honestly about others.
- “I kept having to process things that were happening in real time or really make certain that I was articulating fact properly, especially when I'm talking about other people.” — Patti Smith [03:19]
- The memoir took a decade to complete, delayed by painful personal events and the challenge of writing honestly about others.
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Discovering Her True Parentage
- Smith discusses the shock and emotional upheaval of learning later in life that her beloved father was not her biological parent.
- “The most difficult part of the writing process ... was the revelation that my father, who I pretty much worshiped and modeled myself after ... was actually not my blood father.” — Patti Smith [04:44]
- She recounts learning this through a sibling DNA test after her mother’s death and discusses how she and her sister processed this revelation together, ultimately finding gratitude and acceptance.
- “I had worked so hard for this book to be a monument to truth ... And suddenly I didn't know where I stood. ... My sister and I together reconciled this.” — Patti Smith [07:34]
- Smith discusses the shock and emotional upheaval of learning later in life that her beloved father was not her biological parent.
2. Literary and Musical Influences
- Early Inspirations
- Remnick highlights Smith’s formative exposure to works like Madame Butterfly, Diego Rivera’s biography, Arthur Rimbaud, and—most fatefully—Bob Dylan.
- “Reading his liner notes, I associated him so much with Rimbaud. ... Finally, I had somebody I gave. … All the people I loved, they were all long gone. ... Finally somebody in real time that I could fantasize about or follow or, you know, learn from.” — Patti Smith [10:43 & 11:21]
- Remnick highlights Smith’s formative exposure to works like Madame Butterfly, Diego Rivera’s biography, Arthur Rimbaud, and—most fatefully—Bob Dylan.
3. The Move to New York and Artistic Surrender
- Pursuing Art
- Smith recalls her determined yet humble arrival in New York, intent on surrendering herself to her calling as an artist, even if her skills felt unformed.
- “My greatest desire at the time was to surrender as an artist.” — Remnick quoting Patti Smith [12:52]
- “Perhaps I lacked the necessary skills, but I had the willingness to develop them. ... I believed in the truth of my calling.” — Remnick quoting Smith [12:55]
- Smith recalls her determined yet humble arrival in New York, intent on surrendering herself to her calling as an artist, even if her skills felt unformed.
4. Becoming a Performative Poet and Musician
- Transition from Writing to Performing
- Initially, Smith aspired to be a visual artist and writer, only moving into performance with the encouragement of Sam Shepard and her serendipitous collaboration with Lenny Kaye.
- “I had been to poetry readings, and they seemed so boring to me, and I didn't want to be boring.” — Patti Smith [14:32]
- The first public “electric poem” performance caused a stir for its audacity and led unexpectedly to record offers.
- Initially, Smith aspired to be a visual artist and writer, only moving into performance with the encouragement of Sam Shepard and her serendipitous collaboration with Lenny Kaye.
5. Spirituality and Relationship with Religion
- Religious Upbringing
- Raised Jehovah's Witness, Smith always maintained a deep personal curiosity and reverence for spiritual questions.
- “I was going to Bible school at two and a half. ... I was asking questions about prayer. I made my mother crazy, asking her, what is the soul?” — Patti Smith [16:53]
- Raised Jehovah's Witness, Smith always maintained a deep personal curiosity and reverence for spiritual questions.
- Her Evolving Belief
- At age 12, Smith distanced herself from organized religion but never lost her faith in God, preferring personal spirituality over institutional doctrine.
- “It wasn't rebellion. I just understood that it wasn't ... right for me.” — Patti Smith [17:56]
- She continues to study scripture with her devout sister, treasuring the aesthetics and poetics of the King James Bible.
- “I have my own relationship with God. It never. It might shift through the years.” — Patti Smith [19:53]
- At age 12, Smith distanced herself from organized religion but never lost her faith in God, preferring personal spirituality over institutional doctrine.
6. Horses, Stardom, and Withdrawal for Love
- The Eventual Success of 'Horses'
- Smith describes her ambivalence about stardom and her initial intent not to become a musician.
- “I was offered after that a record contract. I was offered all kinds of things. And I thought it was really stupid. I thought stupid. All that attention over that. ... I just didn’t want to be boring, you know.” — Patti Smith [15:26]
- Smith describes her ambivalence about stardom and her initial intent not to become a musician.
- Meeting and Marrying Fred “Sonic” Smith
- Remnick and Smith discuss the pivotal moment she met her late husband in Detroit and the profound personal and artistic consequences of choosing a quieter, domestic life.
- “...we looked at each other and it was like in movies where everything stops, you know... And I knew instinctively with all my being that that was the fellow I was going to marry.” — Patti Smith [25:04]
- She withdrew from the public eye, motivated by love and self-preservation, and embraced motherhood and domestic life, describing a period marked by study, writing, and deep partnership.
- “I didn’t depend on adulation for my self worth. ... One of the things I missed the most was cafes.” — Patti Smith [30:34, 31:27]
- Remnick and Smith discuss the pivotal moment she met her late husband in Detroit and the profound personal and artistic consequences of choosing a quieter, domestic life.
7. Grief, Loss, and Creative Persistence
- Loss of Fred and Her Brother
- After Fred’s death in 1994 and the loss of her brother a month later, Smith describes the depth of devastation but also the necessity of moving forward for her children.
- “So I had to a mother.” — Patti Smith [33:20]
- After Fred’s death in 1994 and the loss of her brother a month later, Smith describes the depth of devastation but also the necessity of moving forward for her children.
- Return to Music & Community Support
- Creating the album Gone Again was both a financial necessity and a painful, cathartic reclamation of her creative life with the help of her artistic community.
- “I got through it with the help of friends ... Eventually returning to performing was really daunting. But it was Allen Ginsberg ... who ... kept entreating me to go back to public life.” — Patti Smith [34:44]
- Creating the album Gone Again was both a financial necessity and a painful, cathartic reclamation of her creative life with the help of her artistic community.
8. Reflections on Belief, Aging, and Hope
- Doubt and Renewal
- Remnick invites Smith to read a poignant passage on questioning belief in the face of loss and age.
- “A feathery wisp adrift somewhere inside me, affording me a generous measure of enthusiasm, tempering loss and disappointment. ... we who no longer believe. ... But I just. I think for a while I. I felt disconnected with everything.” — Patti Smith [35:54, 37:07]
- Remnick invites Smith to read a poignant passage on questioning belief in the face of loss and age.
- Retaining Hope in Troubled Times
- Despite the weight of public suffering and personal loss, Smith affirms her sense of obligation and joy in her ongoing work, celebrating her family and the creative process.
- “I have still much work to do. ... I have to celebrate the life I’ve been given.” — Patti Smith [39:12–40:30]
- Despite the weight of public suffering and personal loss, Smith affirms her sense of obligation and joy in her ongoing work, celebrating her family and the creative process.
9. Joy, Creativity, and Consolation
- Finding Joy
- Smith names her children's well-being, the act of writing, and the happiness of others as main sources of joy.
- “What gives me joy is when my kids seem good... when I write something and I think it's good. ... I like to see people happy or I like to do something. ... If it's helpful or inspires people, you know, in their own struggles, that'll make me happy, too.” — Patti Smith [40:33, 41:05]
- Smith names her children's well-being, the act of writing, and the happiness of others as main sources of joy.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Her True Parentage:
“My father will always be my father. And he is the one I aspired to be like.” — Patti Smith [08:56] -
On Her Creative Calling:
“For I believed in the truth of my calling and was single minded in my pursuit to find work. It had come to me as if struck with an ecstatic paralysis.” — Remnick, reading Smith's memoir [12:52] -
On Leaving Music for Love:
“Just for love, you know, that was at the heart of it. But it was also for self-preservation.” — Patti Smith [27:56] -
On Returning to Work After Loss:
“I had to take the photographs without Robert, play music without Richard Soule... without my brother at the helm, without Fred by my side. ... I got through it with the help of friends.” — Patti Smith [33:29, 34:44] -
On Belief:
“I believe there are many, many beautiful truths. Not many evil truths. There's just one evil truth, but many beautiful truths.” — Patti Smith [38:50] -
On Hope Amid Suffering:
“I have to celebrate the life I've been given.” — Patti Smith [40:30]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 03:19 – Smith on the difficulties of memoir-writing and truth-telling
- 04:44 – The revelation about her father’s identity
- 10:43 – Early artistic/literary influences and discovery of Bob Dylan
- 12:52 – Arrival in New York and artistic surrender
- 14:32 – Transition from poetry to musical performance
- 16:52 – Smith’s complex relationship with religion and God
- 24:54 – Meeting and falling in love with Fred "Sonic" Smith
- 32:32 – Coping with the loss of Fred Smith and her brother
- 35:54 – Reading from Bread of Angels on belief and aging
- 39:04 – Maintaining hope and joy in a troubled world
Tone and Takeaways
The conversation is candid, searching, and full of hard-won wisdom. Remnick and Smith’s rapport elicits deeply personal, occasionally humorous, but often meditative reflections that will resonate with anyone interested in art, resilience, spirituality, and the beauty and pain of a well-lived life. The episode provides both a moving backstory to Bread of Angels and a fitting retrospective on what fifty years of pursuing truth and beauty has meant to Patti Smith.