The New Yorker Radio Hour: Rachel Maddow on the Fascist Threat in America, Then and Now

Released on November 4, 2024, "The New Yorker Radio Hour" features a compelling episode titled "Rachel Maddow on the Fascist Threat in America, Then and Now." Hosted by David Remnick and produced in collaboration with WNYC Studios and The New Yorker, this episode delves deep into the resurgence of fascist ideologies in contemporary America, drawing parallels with historical movements. Below is a detailed summary capturing the essence of the discussions, key insights, and conclusions presented by Rachel Maddow.

1. Introduction to the Fascist Resurgence

David Remnick opens the episode by highlighting the increasing use of the term "fascist" in the current election discourse, noting the significance of retired generals Mark Milley and John Kelly labeling the threat as such. He remarks, “The word of the day in this election is no longer vibes or joy. It's a much darker word, fascist” ([01:34]). This sets the stage for a profound conversation with Rachel Maddow about the enduring and evolving threats of authoritarianism in America.

2. Defining Modern American Fascism

Rachel Maddow asserts the abnormality of the current political climate, stating, “This is not normal American stuff. This isn't American at all. This is strongman authoritarian form of government stuff which our Constitution protects us from explicitly” ([02:05]). She draws a direct comparison between Donald Trump's actions and those of Vladimir Putin in Russia, emphasizing the stark deviation from democratic norms.

3. Historical Context: Fascism in America

Maddow introduces her podcast Ultra and her book Prequel, which examine far-right movements in America dating back to 1939. She references the German American Bund's infamous rally at Madison Square Garden, highlighting how historical fascist activities have resurfaced in contemporary politics. At one point, she reflects on the evolving American consciousness regarding these historical events:

“There was a beautiful short film that was made about it that raised awareness...Now we find that Trump is doing one of these final closing argument rallies, and he's doing it there.” ([03:52])

This comparison underscores the cyclical nature of political extremism and its persistent threats.

4. Modern Parallels: Madison Square Garden Rallies

The discussion shifts to the significance of Madison Square Garden as a recurring venue for major political rallies. Maddow recounts past events, such as Barry Goldwater's 1964 rally opposing desegregation and the 1954 rally aimed at countering Joe McCarthy's censure, where antisemitic figures like Gerald L.K. Smith and Roy Cohn spoke ([03:52]).

She draws parallels between these historical rallies and the present-day MAGA rallies, suggesting that the choice of venue symbolizes America's ongoing struggle with authoritarian ideologies. Remnick adds context by referencing Marshall Curry's short film depicting the German American Bund's fascist imagery, prompting Maddow to elaborate on the Americanization of foreign fascist symbols:

“There's this effort to take foreign fascism and make it seem American...But when we talk about making America great again and we talk about the threat of an authoritarian takeover in the United States in the form of Trumpism, it is not something foreign.” ([08:25])

5. Is Donald Trump a Fascist?

A pivotal moment in the episode is Maddow's unequivocal stance on Donald Trump, declaring, “Yes [Trump is a fascist]” ([09:44]). Remnick seeks clarification on whether Trump's fascism is self-conscious, to which Maddow responds by referencing historian Robert Paxton's definition of fascism. She emphasizes that the essence of fascism lies in its manipulative messaging rather than specific policies:

“We are a nation in decline...We need to turn our force against them...We might need a little bit of violence just to save the nation. Just this once.” ([10:06])

This definition underscores the inherent unpredictability and danger of authoritarian leaders who manipulate public sentiment to consolidate power.

6. The Role of Billionaires and Ordinary Americans

The conversation transitions to the influence of billionaires like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Mark Zuckerberg in the political landscape. Maddow criticizes the reliance on the benevolence of the ultra-wealthy, arguing that their fear of losing power undermines democratic institutions:

“I think if the plan is to count on the benevolence and wisdom and courage of billionaires, that's a bad plan.” ([19:38])

In contrast, she lauds ordinary Americans such as Lev Parnas, Stormy Daniels, and Ruby Freeman for their bravery in exposing truths without the backing of powerful institutions. She emphasizes the importance of resistance led by regular people rather than fear-driven elites:

“We're going to be led by regular people...by people who are willing to not be afraid and to act on it and to treat these guys with the disdain they deserve.” ([21:35])

7. Personal Reflections and Emotional Toll

As the episode nears its conclusion, Remnick inquires about the emotional impact of covering such high-stakes political events. Maddow candidly shares her exhaustion and emotional burden, humorously noting:

“I left my body halfway through the primaries and I will not rejoin my body until Inauguration Day...I will go home and drink and cry, no matter who wins.” ([23:47])

This admission highlights the personal toll taken on journalists and commentators witnessing the potential rise of authoritarianism.

8. Concluding Insights

In their final exchanges, Remnick and Maddow reiterate the gravity of the political moment. Maddow reinforces the necessity of resilience and courage in the face of authoritarian threats, advocating for ordinary citizens to lead the charge in preserving democracy. Remnick wraps up the episode by directing listeners to additional resources, including a timeline of the election's most consequential moments and The New Yorker's endorsement essay on Kamala Harris.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Maddow ([02:05]): “This is not normal American stuff. This isn't American at all. This is strongman authoritarian form of government stuff which our Constitution protects us from explicitly.”

• Rachel Maddow ([09:44]): “Yes [Donald Trump is a fascist].”

• Rachel Maddow ([10:06]): “We are a nation in decline...We need to turn our force against them...We might need a little bit of violence just to save the nation. Just this once.”

• Rachel Maddow ([19:38]): “I think if the plan is to count on the benevolence and wisdom and courage of billionaires, that's a bad plan.”

• Rachel Maddow ([21:35]): “We're going to be led by regular people...by people who are willing to not be afraid and to act on it and to treat these guys with the disdain they deserve.”

• Rachel Maddow ([23:47]): “I left my body halfway through the primaries and I will not rejoin my body until Inauguration Day...I will go home and drink and cry, no matter who wins.”

Conclusion

This episode of "The New Yorker Radio Hour" offers a profound exploration of the fascist threats facing America today, contextualized within its historical continuities and transformations. Through Rachel Maddow's incisive analysis and passionate discourse, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the complexities surrounding modern authoritarianism, the roles individuals and elites play, and the imperative of safeguarding democratic values.