The New Yorker Radio Hour — March 10, 2017

Episode Title: Refugees in Limbo, and a Conservative in Washington
Host: David Remnick
Contributors: Jake Halpern, Ariel Levy

Overview

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour, hosted by David Remnick, is split into two main narratives. The first half profiles Vive, a safe house in Buffalo, NY, where refugees from around the world wait in anxious limbo, hoping for asylum in Canada or the U.S. The second features an interview with Stephen Hayes, a prominent conservative and outspoken "Never Trumper," on the state of conservative politics during Trump's early presidency. The episode concludes with a conversation between Ariel Levy and acclaimed photographer Catherine Opie, exploring her life, work, and philosophy.

Segment 1: A Conservative in Washington — Stephen Hayes and the State of the GOP

(00:43 – 17:07)

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Competing Forces in Trump’s White House

  • Remnick describes an internal ideological struggle: traditional conservatives vs. the Trumpian nationalist wing (00:21 – 02:11).
  • “Whatever they may say about unity or a well oiled machine, there's clearly a struggle going on.” — David Remnick (01:56)

• Stephen Hayes’ Perspective as a Conservative Critic

  • Hayes describes mixed feelings after Trump’s election: optimism about conservative goals (Supreme Court, Obamacare repeal) and doubt about Trump’s consistency/trustworthiness (02:34 – 03:18).
    • “He was on virtually every side of every issue.” — Stephen Hayes (02:52)
    • “He lies all the time. I don't think there's any doubt about that.” — Stephen Hayes (04:03)
  • The phrase “casual dishonesty” is used to describe Trump’s relationship with the truth.

• Press, Accountability, and Polarization

  • On the press being called the “enemy,” Hayes is firm:
    • “It was un-American of the President of the United States to say that the press plays an absolutely pivotal role in our republic.… The press is not the enemy of the American people and it's disgraceful to say so.” — Stephen Hayes (09:17)
  • Discusses media bias and the responsibility of conservative media to correct misinformation from Trump.
  • Hayes describes the role of his publication, The Weekly Standard, as: “report the hell out of the Trump administration” (07:53).

• The Mood in Washington and Republican Dilemmas

  • “It's beleaguering intensity… you think it has to stop.” — Stephen Hayes (10:44), referencing the daily barrage of news and controversies in Trump’s early presidency.
  • Remnick questions whether simply being “normal” is enough for Trump’s version of presidential behavior:
    • “Isn't that grading on a fantastic curve?” — David Remnick (11:44)
    • Hayes agrees: “That is what I'm saying.” (12:03)

• Big Government vs. Small Government

  • Hayes expresses concern that Trump is a “big government” Republican, content to avoid entitlement reform despite Republican control of Washington (13:05).
    • “There's this great irony now… there's no serious talk of entitlement reform whatsoever.” — Stephen Hayes (13:38)
  • He warns of the risk of conservatives abandoning core principles for short-term policy wins (14:00 – 15:21).

• On Autocracy and Public Outrage

  • Addressing David Frum’s “How to Build an Autocracy,” Hayes argues for proportional outrage; caution against constant, maximal protest to maintain focus on serious concerns (15:22 – 17:05).
    • “If every utterance is 10 on the outrage meter, people will tune out quickly.” — Stephen Hayes (16:05)

Notable Quotes

• “He lies all the time. I don't think there's any doubt about that.” — Stephen Hayes (04:03)
• “The press is not the enemy of the American people and it's disgraceful to say so.” — Stephen Hayes (09:28)
• “If every utterance is 10 on the outrage meter, people will tune out quickly.” — Stephen Hayes (16:05)

Segment 2: Refugees in Limbo — Inside Vive Safe House, Buffalo, NY

(17:12 – 43:39)

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• The Role of Vive

  • Vive is a 24/7 shelter helping refugees from over 75 countries, assisting with basic needs and legal paperwork for asylum in the U.S. or Canada (20:19 – 22:25).
  • Sister Beth Nitoprum, founder and social worker, describes the mission: “We take care of the needs of anybody that walks in this door and try to make them feel welcome and safe.” (21:56)
  • Vive started during the 1980s Central American wars, when nuns in Buffalo began sheltering fleeing migrants.

• Life at Vive: Stories of Waiting and Resilience

  • Marshall (Zimbabwe):

    • Fled political persecution; on Mugabe’s hit list (18:58 – 20:19).
    • Waits for asylum in the U.S. after learning he can’t cross to Canada due to a lack of a qualifying “anchor relative” (28:57 – 30:08).
    • Describes crowded, difficult living conditions:
      • “People will be talking in their dreams… Nightmares all over the place, hallucinations… but people will be talking, chanting, singing.” — Marshall (31:15)
    • On waiting: “Just wait patiently and embrace the reality. You know, patience.” (31:50)
    • Uses music, especially Bob Marley, to cope:
      • “It’s the message Bob Marley tells me, that every little thing is gonna be okay someday. Somehow…” (41:47)

  • Ulysses (El Salvador):

    • Fled with his son from gang violence; son now in asylum process in Canada (34:37 – 35:54).
    • Father and son see each other across Niagara Falls, waving from opposing sides:
      • “And then we see, you know, Tafari. Yeah. You understand me?” — Ulysses (37:16)
    • Shows resilience by welcoming newcomers despite his own troubles.

• Rules and Politics of Crossing

  • Canada's policy requires a close relative or unaccompanied minor to claim asylum at the border. The only alternative is a risky illegal crossing in winter (29:27 – 29:53).
  • Trump's executive orders have created new uncertainties, increasing fear among refugees and leading some to flee into Canada on foot (42:51).

• Daily Life and Emotional Realities

  • Many spend months, even years, in limbo, with crowded living, regulated by daily chores and marked by trauma (32:17 – 33:02).
  • The emotional toll: “If you could push a button and it was all gone… I would greatly appreciate that.” — Marshall (39:53)
  • Observing others move on can be hard for those left behind:
    • “You see people come and go…that in a way, makes it actually harder for you…” — Jake Halpern (40:36)

Notable Moments & Quotes

• “We needed to shelter them…so we began to take them into our convents.” — Sister Beth Nitoprum (21:27)
• “It's 100 and some people that have been using it 20 some years, 30 years almost. So it's been used, but we do try to keep it up.” — Sister Beth Nitoprum (22:46)
• “If there was a method or way that… they could flash my memory and remove everything I know and start afresh, I would greatly appreciate that.” — Marshall (39:53)
• “It’s the message Bob Marley tells me, that every little thing is gonna be okay someday. Somehow…” — Marshall (41:47)

Segment 3: Art and Identity — Ariel Levy Interviews Photographer Catherine Opie

(45:17 – 54:23)

Key Discussion Points

• Early Life and Inspiration

  • Opie’s love for photography began at age nine, supported by her parents (45:25).
  • Describes first photos of family at breakfast: “Dad's sitting at the table…he has his army coffee mug in front of him…” (45:50)

• Career Choice and Mentorship

  • Nearly pursued teaching due to the gender barriers in photography, until artist Eleanor Schnur mentored her, encouraging her as an artist (46:50 – 47:56).

• Exploring Domesticity and Queer Community

  • Opie’s "Domestic" project investigates lesbian domesticity — traveling the country to photograph couples and domestic scenes, aiming to document queer history (48:18 – 50:31).
  • "And part of image making is being able to create that history." — Catherine Opie (50:31)

• Political Photography: Documenting Democracy

  • Photographed Tea Party rallies to witness all sides: “If I was only going out and photographing maybe the demonstrations of the left…to not have the Tea Party within it…would be hypocritical and slightly one sided.” (50:51)
  • Strives for impartiality and optimism in her work rather than snark or dismissal (52:36 – 52:43).

• Intersectional Identity and Empathy

  • Opie on the complexity of identity: mother, Midwesterner, queer, artist. Advocates for crossing comfort zones to foster humanity (53:23 – 54:23).
    • “If we compartmentalize our lives and we don’t reach across…we’re never going to allow this larger sense of humanity to seep into all of our lives.” — Catherine Opie (54:20)

Notable Quotes

• “I really think that we can actually begin to figure out our opposition in relationship to a broader notion of humanity.” — Catherine Opie (52:43)
• “Part of image making is being able to create that history.” — Catherine Opie (50:31)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Stephen Hayes Interview (Never Trump Conservative/Press/Policy): 02:34 – 17:07
• Refugee Stories at Vive (Buffalo, NY): 18:22 – 43:39
  • Marshall’s escape & journey: 18:22 – 20:19
  • Life inside Vive: 21:56 – 31:10
  • Coping & resilience: 31:39 – 42:51
• Catherine Opie Interview (Art & Empathy): 45:17 – 54:23

Episode Tone and Style

The episode skillfully blends intimate, empathetic storytelling (in the Vive segment) with probing, thoughtful political analysis (Hayes), maintaining the New Yorker’s measured but deeply engaging journalistic style. The inclusion of direct participant voices—especially those of refugees—gives the narrative gravity and urgency, while quotes from each interviewee enrich the overall emotional landscape.

Conclusion

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour offers a potent snapshot of 2017 America—its political upheavals and the human stakes of policy for refugees on the margins. Through deeply reported stories and candid interviews, it asks what it means to belong, to dissent, and to hope.

For further reading, the episode references Jake Halpern’s New Yorker article “The Underground Railroad for Refugees,” and Ariel Levy’s memoir.