Podcast Summary: Rev. Franklin Graham Offers an Evangelist’s View of Donald Trump

Podcast: The New Yorker Radio Hour
Host/Interviewer: Eliza Griswold (for David Remnick)
Guest: Rev. Franklin Graham
Date: September 4, 2018
Duration Covered: [00:01] - [13:40]

Overview

This episode features a candid interview with Rev. Franklin Graham, a leading evangelical figure and son of the late Billy Graham. Hosted by Eliza Griswold, the discussion explores Franklin Graham's unwavering support for President Donald Trump, the nuanced roles of evangelical leaders in American politics, moral complexities around immigration, and international relations from an evangelist’s perspective. The conversation is both probing and revealing, touching on themes of morality, political alignment, and the intersection of faith and public life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Franklin Graham’s Political Engagement and Comparison with Billy Graham

• Billy Graham’s Role: Billy Graham counseled many U.S. presidents and sometimes spoke out about issues like racial segregation.
• Franklin’s Stance on Politics: Franklin asserts he maintains some distance from politics but feels compelled to speak out on moral issues.
  • Quote (Franklin Graham, 01:41):

    “No, I’m not that close. You meet politicians from time to time...I try to keep my distance. But I’m going to speak out on issues that I think are moral issues that we should be speaking out, should be addressing.”

2. Support and Critique of President Donald Trump

• Graham differentiates Trump’s past from his performance as president, focusing on religious liberty and policy over personal conduct.

  • Quote (Franklin Graham, 02:34):

    “Well, I don’t know as far as what he’s been inside the White House. I don’t agree with everything he says, don’t agree with everything he tweets, but he has been very strong on religious freedom issues, which I appreciate.”

• On Trump’s “meanness” and rhetoric:

  • Graham attributes Trump's bluntness to New Yorker culture rather than ill intent, arguing that leaders’ success benefits all Americans regardless of political allegiance.
  • Quote (Franklin Graham, 03:13):

    “I don’t know if it’s meanness or if it’s just who he is. I mean, he’s a New Yorker...he says things and they’re very, sometimes very blunt...Whether you voted for him or not, he’s our president. And if he succeeds, you’re going to benefit...If he doesn’t succeed, then we all lose.”

3. Reflections on Trump’s Inaugural Speech and Approach to Adversaries

• Graham focuses on action over rhetoric, applauding Trump’s diplomacy with North Korea, Russia, and Iran.
  • Quote (Franklin Graham, 04:39):

    “I think you have to look at what the man does with his job and the work that he does...I appreciate the fact that he talked to President Putin...I don’t think that’s the way you get things done. I think you talk and you try to work out something that will benefit the people of Europe, people especially the Ukraine.”

4. Views on Vladimir Putin and Election Interference

• Graham presents Putin as acting in Russia’s interest and acknowledges the U.S. history of interfering in foreign elections, warning against sanctimony.
  • Quote (Franklin Graham, 06:38):

    “Everyone in the country loves him. He’s going to do what’s best, what he thinks for Russia and for Russia interest...the United States has interfered in many countries’ elections...So all of a sudden we get sanctimonious and we get oh, how terrible. Some other countries tried to influence our elections.”

5. The Evangelical Community and Russian Influence

• On Russians using evangelical events to gain influence, Graham argues this is simply human and political nature.
  • Quote (Franklin Graham, 09:28):

    “It is what it is, okay?”

6. Family Separation, Immigration Policy, and Evangelical Response

• Graham strongly opposes family separations at the border and criticizes government-run facilities.
  • Quote (Franklin Graham, 09:51):

    “I did not support that at all. I thought that was a mistake, and I spoke out against it. It’s just got to be a better system...We should never be taking children away from parents, period.”

  • He argues for legal immigration and suggests some political actors use children as “a political football.”
  • Quote (Franklin Graham, 11:01):

    “Listen, I’m all for children and families coming in legally...I do believe that if you’re caught at the border, you ought to be turned around and sent back and come legally.”

7. Evangelicals, Morality, and Political Trade-Offs

• Responding to whether evangelicals risk their moral standing with political alliances for gain, Graham emphasizes the flawed nature of all leaders and people, cautioning against overthinking.
  • Quote (Franklin Graham, 12:33):

    “No. Some people sit around and they think too much. President Clinton did a lot of good for this country, but he brought the country also to a low that we’ve never had before...I know I’m not the same person I was 24, 15, 20 years ago. And I hope we all learn from mistakes and...we get better for that...we’re all flawed, including Franklin Graham.”

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On Trump’s Rhetoric:
  “I don’t know if it’s meanness or if it’s just who he is...he says things and they’re very, sometimes very blunt.” (Franklin Graham, 03:13)

• On Family Separation:
  “We should never be taking children away from parents, period...that gets me mad.” (Franklin Graham, 09:51–10:34)

• On Human Flaws:
  “We’re all flawed, including Franklin Graham.” (Franklin Graham, 13:37)

Important Segments & Timestamps

• Intro & Context Setting – [00:01–01:07]
• Billy Graham’s Legacy and Franklin’s Political Involvement – [01:07–01:41]
• Franklin on Trump’s Morality and White House Policies – [02:14–03:13]
• Trump’s Inaugural Speech & Foreign Relations – [04:14–05:58]
• Views on Putin, Election Interference – [05:58–07:52]
• Russian Influence and Evangelical Connections – [07:52–09:31]
• Family Separation, Immigration, and Evangelical Response – [09:31–12:04]
• Evangelicals’ Political Alliances and Moral Standing – [12:04–13:40]

Conclusion

This episode offers an unvarnished look at one of America’s leading evangelical voices and his rationale for supporting Donald Trump, even in the face of significant moral and political controversy. Franklin Graham’s positions illuminate the shifting priorities within evangelical politics—where the promise of religious freedom and conservative policy can often outweigh concerns about personal morality and political entanglements.