The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: Richard Linklater on His Two New Films, “Blue Moon” and “Nouvelle Vague”
Date: October 21, 2025
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Richard Linklater
Contributor: Justin Chang, film critic

Overview

In this episode, David Remnick and New Yorker film critic Justin Chang sit down with acclaimed director Richard Linklater to discuss his two new and stylistically ambitious films premiering this fall: Blue Moon, a portrait of lyricist Lorenz Hart on the night of "Oklahoma!"’s Broadway debut, and Nouvelle Vague, a vivid retelling of the French New Wave era centered on Jean-Luc Godard’s first film. The conversation explores Linklater's creative process, the evolving landscape of independent cinema, and what continues to motivate his unique approach to storytelling.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Richard Linklater’s Dual Release: Unusual in Modern Cinema

• Two films in one season: Both Blue Moon and Nouvelle Vague drop almost simultaneously.
• Justin Chang notes (00:58): “There is a kind of casual mastery that he's achieved and I think it's on display in these two movies.”
• Thematic serendipity: Both films deal with artists at historical crossroads.

2. Blue Moon: A Night in the Life of Lorenz Hart

The Premise & Emotional Core

• Setting: Follows Hart during the opening night of Rodgers and Hammerstein’s Oklahoma! — a moment marking his obsolescence.
• Linklater (03:14): “I'm setting it on the opening night of Oklahoma. I'm like, oh, my God, that is so perverse... it's so heartbreaking, awkward.”
• Tagline (03:14): “Forgotten but not gone. You know, there he is.”

Art vs. Commerce, Sentiment vs. Substance

• Debate on entertainment’s value:

  • Hart is affectionate yet bitter; feels eclipsed by the sentimental crowd-pleasing of his successors.
  • Linklater (04:53): “Oklahoma's too easy. The guy getting the girl at the end is too easy. You've just eliminated every successful musical comedy ever written, Larry.”

• Justin Chang (05:41): “A fascinating conversation… about art versus entertainment, art versus commerce, what the public wants versus what it needs.”

Ethan Hawke as Larry Hart

• Casting Hawke: A frequent Linklater collaborator, but an unlikely choice for Hart.
• Linklater (06:17): “Ethan is in that phylum of actors who probably has the quickness, you know, because it's hard. You know, I said it's hard to portray a genius. You can only portray a genius with a little bit of that yourself.”
• Unique rehearsal approach:
  • Linklater (08:42): “With Ethan in this part, it was deductive… we're taking away everything where he's just nothing but a brain… it's tougher to tear down.”
  • “To be doing something that's just bumping me at the absolute limit of my talent... it's uncomfortable.”

Creative Gestation

• Blue Moon incubated for 13 years.
• Linklater (07:49): “Those years of thinking about a film… You're really finding the movie.”

3. Nouvelle Vague: Reconstructing a Cinematic Revolution

Portrait of the French New Wave

• Premise: Follows Jean-Luc Godard just before and during the making of Breathless (À bout de souffle).
• Justin Chang (11:03): “Godard is like the original slacker figure of the French New Wave... actually working quite hard, but... projecting this [unconventional] energy.”

Risktaking and Naïveté

• Vision for authenticity:
  • Linklater (14:12): “This film was made in ‘59... it’s going to look, sound and feel like a film from that era, which I know people have tried a lot.”
  • Sees the film as a form of creative time-travel using period techniques.

Humanity Behind the Icons

• Godard as a vulnerable artist:

  • Linklater (12:04): “This isn't a film about icons... this guy maybe doesn’t know what he’s doing... you're just all youngsters with this opportunity.”

• Emotional resonance on set:

  • Filming at Jean Seberg’s gravesite, a moving experience for the team.
  • Linklater (16:58): “As we approach her grave... it just kind of quits raining, miraculously... She goes up to the grave, the sun comes out... And we get the scene.”

4. Reflections on Independent Filmmaking and the Industry

On Longevity and Independence

• Chang (17:19): “You are a unique figure in having hit on something that works for you and you alone... Do you feel that you are finding a way amid the sort of apocalyptic gloom that... hangs over the film industry at this point in time?”
• Linklater (18:09): “My filmmaking grew out of my own little film community... I can get films made under a certain budget... no one got paid, but it was like challenging material. Let’s do this.”

The Problem of Scale and Culture

• Lower budgets were once seen as a virtue; now, it’s hard for indies to break through.
• Linklater (19:40): “It became so unaffordable, the modern world... Everything’s so expensive. The real expense in films is marketing... Not anymore. I don’t even know these two films I have now... I don't know where they fit.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Linklater on Hart’s isolation:
  • “This is kind of a little howl into the night from an artist who's being left behind, you know, not just by his partner, but by the times.” (03:14)
• On working with Ethan Hawke:
  • “Ethan... to be doing something that's just bumping me at the absolute limit of my talent. I said, me too. It's a good place to work from... But when you're there, it's uncomfortable.” (09:40)
• On Godard and creative risk:
  • “It's okay to... You have to do it differently... I told the crew this isn't a film about icons. But this guy maybe doesn't know what he's doing.” (12:04)
• On the economics of filmmaking now vs. then:
  • “When I started out, Slacker didn’t cost... it was like $23,000 budget. It made one point something million. Distributors happy. Everybody's happy. It was seen as a success. Now that just doesn't register.” (19:10)
• On the future:
  • “I don't even know these two films I have now. They're both kind of strange little indie films. I don't know where they fit.” (19:51)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:58: Justin Chang introduces the thematic linkage between the two films.
• 03:14: Linklater describes the genesis and heartbreak at the core of Blue Moon.
• 05:41: Chang frames the film’s debates about art versus commerce.
• 06:17-07:49: Casting Ethan Hawke & creative collaboration.
• 07:49-08:41: On long incubation periods for projects.
• 08:42-10:16: The challenges in Hawke's performance and Linklater’s directorial approach.
• 11:03: Chang introduces Nouvelle Vague and links Godard to Linklater’s own ‘slacker’ archetype.
• 12:04: Linklater explains the approach to Godard and the French New Wave.
• 14:12-16:58: Technical and emotional challenges in recreating 1959 Paris and a spiritual on-set anecdote.
• 17:19-19:51: Linklater’s broader reflections on independent filmmaking amidst industry changes.

Concluding Tone

The conversation showcases Richard Linklater as a filmmaker deeply invested in both the idiosyncrasies of artistic life and the collaborative, often struggle-filled realities of indie moviemaking. His willingness to experiment, his affectionate yet unsentimental lens, and his candid admission of uncertainty about the future of independent cinema resonate throughout the exchange.

Justin Chang: "I'm very excited for these two movies to make their way into the world. Thank you, Richard Linklater. It's been a pleasure talking to you." (20:24)

Linklater: “Well, thank you, Justin. Yeah, it’s really, really nice talking with you today.” (20:32)

For more on Linklater’s new films and Justin Chang’s reviews, visit newyorker.com