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The New Yorker Radio Hour
Roger Federer Opens Up
00:19:57
The winner of twenty Grand Slam titles and the top-ranked men’s player for three hundred and ten weeks, Roger Federer remains a dominant force in tennis. On the eve of playing in his nineteenth U.S. Open, Federer spoke with David Remnick about how he got over the hot temper and predilection for throwing racquets that he showed early in his career. At the advanced age of thirty-eight—and as a father of young children—Federer explains what he’s had to give up in order to keep playing professionally. But he doesn’t plan to retire a day before he has to. “I think it's nice to keep on playing, and really squeeze the last drop of lemon out of it,” he tells Remnick, “and not leave the game of tennis thinking, Oh, I should have stayed longer.” Plus, the staff writer Hua Hsu on the singular career of a Chinese vocalist with global ambitions.
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- [00:02]
Narrator/Producer
From One World Trade center in Manhattan, this is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of the New Yorker and WNYC Studios.
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David Remnick
Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Roger Federer, who's getting ready to play at the US Open in New York, is, for my money, the greatest men's tennis player of all time. He's won 20 Grand Slam titles. He spent 310 weeks ranked number one in the world. And just look at the guy. Even at 38, which is pretty old for professional tennis, he is a dominant figure. Part of his greatness resides above his shoulders. He has an unmatchable court intelligence and temperament, which is why it was a little shocking when Federer's match against Novak Djokovic at the final at Wimbledon last month ended with a stunning and very unusual mistake.
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Interviewer
Novak Djokovic. Now, I know this is not a pleasant moment or a pleasant memory for you, but the Wimbledon final in July, you've won Wimbledon eight times. That's more than any other men's player. And this year, you played in the final against Novak Djokovic, and it was an amazing match, and arguably you outplayed him. It was the longest final in Wimbledon history, but it ended in a pretty shocking way. You had match point in the fifth set, and it's gotta be said, you mishit the ball and just shanked it into the stands, and Djokovic goes on to win. Tell me about that moment. The ball that hits your racket and you watch it fly off into the stands, and you seem so contained. But how do you describe the sense of disappointment or whatever it was after so many hours and so much effort and so much beautiful play?
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Roger Federer
That's tough. It's tough, you know, just because, like you said, I thought it was a great match. You know, I played really good, have all my chances, won more points than he did, and then to end up losing the way I did really made me more angry than anything, you know, because I really felt like could have, should have done it. But, you know, that's how it goes sometimes, you know, I'm very quick to analyze a match like this. I got over the finals very, very easily, very quickly, to be honest, because it's just part of it.
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Interviewer
So you weren't miserable to be around for the next few days after you didn't have to avoid your kids and they didn't have to avoid you?
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Roger Federer
You were okay? Yeah, I was. Actually slept in a camper van Monday night. So I lost. Sunday, we went back all as a family on Monday we went on a camping trip, so there was no avoiding the family. Of course, I woke up Tuesday morning. It is now incredibly just tired and drained still from the match and just from having a bad night's sleep in the caravan, because I have never slept in a caravan before. But it was so much fun. We had the best time and I'm so happy we did it. But we did say that next time if we do it, it may be better not to do it. After a five hour battle with Novak Djokovic in the Wimbledon finals, when you're.
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Interviewer
Playing in a big match, are you having fun or is that too childish a word to bring to what the activity is on a big stage?
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Roger Federer
I think it is fun, but I see what you're trying to say and I also do sense that sometimes because it's so important and to some extent so seriously, it's maybe not as much fun as you think it is, but the challenge is fun. You know, having those butterflies before walking out on court is interesting. I don't say it's fun because that's maybe something I will not miss, but yet I will miss it because it's a exhilarating feeling and it's something you don't get, you know, when you're playing video games or I don't know what, you know, it's just. It comes about because the pressure is so high playing in front of a live audience. And of course sometimes you play less good. But all I want to do then is maybe if things are really not going well, because that just sometimes happens, doesn't happen, you know, nearly as enough as I thought it would when I would be at this age. But for me, it's more about is at least make my opponent beat me, you know, make him earn it. And then at least I can walk out and say like, okay, the other guy was better. Today wasn't maybe my day, whatever the reasons were. But yeah, fun is always there, but it comes and goes, I guess, a little bit at that level.
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Interviewer
Some fans may not know that when you were a kid, you had a pretty volcanic temper on the court and you willed that away when you watched John McEnroe play or now Nick Kyrgios or somebody like that. You see them lose it on the court. How do you relate to that kind of temperament on the court, which is so alien to you?
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Roger Federer
Well, I laugh about it because I think it's actually good. It's good that guys are showing their temper. Well, I can totally relate to it because that's how I felt when I was younger. And it's nice to see it still exists. I'm also sometimes more like smash rackets. I used to smash rackets, throw rackets, but very clever, you know, so I wouldn't break the racket. So I would throw it into the fence or I would throw it over the fence or into the tree or I don't know what I would do, but not onto the ground where it would break. And I would have to explain myself to my parents and my sponsor maybe and ask for another racket because I smashed it. So I don't know. Look, I understand that, that people get upset because it happens to me still in practice nowadays, you know, when nobody's watching, I get super frustrated as well sometimes because tennis is just a sport where you're going to make mistakes. I don't care who you are, they just happen, you know, I just didn't want to be that kind of player with that attitude because I just felt like so drained once I was like midway through a tournament, I was so tired from getting upset from shouting, commentating every ball I missed, or, you know, for the sake of winning, I changed my attitude. I think basically that's what I did.
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Interviewer
Athletes who have a long career change. Muhammad Ali, when he started off as a professional fighter, was just unbelievably fast. He had the speed of a lightweight and the power of a heavyweight. Later on, he changed his tactics. He became more of a. He paced himself differently as a tennis player and somebody who's 38. What is it that you cannot do anymore? What have you had to give up?
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Roger Federer
Well, for me, it's been not sad, but a bit unfortunate that I had to give up in my spare time going to do other sports. When I was younger, I remember I used to go play squash with my friends for hours after a game or I would go play ping pong even before a match. Or I used to go skiing, you know, after the Australian Open back in Switzerland. And all of a sudden you're like, well, maybe I should stop that just because I don't want to end my career that way. I don't want to break my knee. And then you give it up and actually you realize, well, I can find something else that's a lot of fun. You organize yourself, your life differently. All of a sudden you have children. So instead of going, I don't know where we're going to play squash, well, now you maybe go run around in the park and play hide and seek and play catch, you know, so I don't Know, it becomes a totally different life that you're living and. But, yeah, I mean, I do miss, you know, the years where I was a teenager, too, and I just did anything just because I could. And I was still trying to understand, what does professionalism really mean?
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Interviewer
I notice sometimes at a tournament, you'll drop a set and pretty decisively in the very beginning, you're almost getting warmed up, and you start to think, well, maybe the difference between Federer and this other guy who's playing is not so significant. And then the tide just completely turns, which leads me to think that maybe the biggest difference between somebody who's at your level or Djokovic's level or Nadal's, and then the next layer down is more mental than physical. Do you see that that's the case?
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Roger Federer
Not so much, to be honest. I think actually margins are much slimmer than people think they are. If you win 53% or 55% of the points, you are winning the match and actually dominating. If you're winning 55 or 60% of the. The points played. And if you. If I'd asked you now, like, how. How much do you think I win? Of all the points played, you would think maybe 70% if you're winning 6 4, 6, 6 3. But actually it's much less than that, you know, And I think what you want to try to create as a player is that you're not playing at the limit of things. That. That your base is so high that you can always rely on it and that you have a several strengths, you know, in your game, that if one also goes away, that you still can absorb it with a different shot, let's say. And I think that's what separates the absolute greats and the best of our game to the other players, you know, is that we can rely on several things to keep us alive in a match.
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Interviewer
What drives your obsession for tennis right now? Is it records? Is it. Do you need the thrill of winning a tournament over and over again? Is it money? What is it?
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Roger Federer
Yeah, I mean, sometimes the motivation can be records, sometimes it is beating, you know, the new generation. Sometimes it is proving to myself that I can do it again. And I mean, just in my heart, I just like playing tennis, you know, may it be practice or matches, I like being out there, you know, and as long as I'm really enjoying myself and I feel that way, I think it's nice to keep on playing and sort of really squeezing that last drop of lemon out of it, you know, and not leaving the game of Tennis feeling like I could have or should have stayed longer, you know, on the tour, because, you know, I feel like I missed out.
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Interviewer
Now, when you're playing, you've got a life of activity and busyness and upheaval and attention and press and all the rest. And then when you stop, you stop when you think ahead to that point, whatever it is, when you're 40, when you're 45, God knows what will life be like, and are you looking forward to that?
- [10:05]
Roger Federer
It will be different. It will be different for sure. You know, I don't think I will have a major struggle being away from the game of tennis that I love so much, because I feel like I was able to keep a really great friendships throughout my career. So I think that's gonna. Gonna catch me in a nice way coming back to a more normal life, a more structured life, you know, I think I'll be, you know, in business in some shape or form. I hope to be in tennis also, just at least a little bit. I could see myself in a mentoring role. I don't see myself commentating or coaching per se, but, you know, helping and giving tips and advice. Totally. I can see that. Philanthropy, of course, my foundation, super important to me. So I know I be doing that in the future. And I know I will be living in Switzerland, my home, where all my friends are. I love my country so much.
- [11:03]
Interviewer
Now.
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David Remnick
David Foster Wallace, who we remember best as a novelist, also wrote a lot about tennis, and he was a big tennis player, and he was a fan of yours, and that's putting it lightly. In a piece in the New York.
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Interviewer
Times, he said that watching you play.
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David Remnick
Tennis was like a religious experience, and that on the court that you looked.
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Interviewer
Like, and I'm quoting here, a creature.
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David Remnick
Whose body is both flesh and somehow light. How do you respond when somebody writes something like that about you? Is it thrilling or embarrassing or what?
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Roger Federer
Yeah, it's a bit embarrassing. I remember the interview with him, and I walked away from the interview thinking, like, ooh, I don't know if this piece is gonna be a most incredible piece or the worst piece. It was really hard to tell, you know, and he wrote this most unbelievable piece about me that almost got me definitely a bit embarrassed, you know, because at the end of the day, I'm just a tennis player, you know, But I know that tennis in the theater sort of feeling we have, you know, we can hear a pin drop. It can be quite a magical sort of feeling, you know, for somebody who's not a tennis player. And even for us It's a great reminder sometimes playing these great arenas around the world, what people think and feel watching sports. And I get it too, because I'm also a sports fan. I also watch it and I get maybe more nervous watching other sports and actually playing it myself.
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David Remnick
You're coming to New York to play in the US Open very soon. And the difference between the atmosphere at, I don't know, strawberries and cream, Wimbledon.
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Interviewer
And a beer and a hot dog.
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David Remnick
US Open is pretty different. Sometimes it seems like the difference between, I don't know, a church service and, you know, feeding time at the zoo. How do you adjust to that? Is one place preferable to you?
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Roger Federer
Well, I think the church is more consistent, let's put it that way. But I love playing there. I love playing in New York. Crowds have been always terrific with me, and I can't wait to come back this year.
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David Remnick
Well, I look forward to it, Roger.
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Interviewer
And thank you so much.
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Roger Federer
It's my pleasure. Thank you, David. I hope I see you there.
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David Remnick
Roger Federer is playing in his 19th US Open this week. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. Stick around. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. And before we go, we've got one more thing to do today. Staff writer Hwasu covers music from a particularly wide perspective. He's written about everything from his first memories of hearing George Michael in Taiwan to the use of classical harps in pop music. So I've come to expect the unexpected from Hua, but I've never heard anything quite like what he played for me recently. Songs from about 50 years ago by a vocalist named Stephen Chang.
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Hwasu
So Stephen Chang recorded a single in the late 60s for Jamaican record label. It had the sort of typical rock city style, you know, like the loping bass line, sort of guitarist cranking out this skank rhythm. But what was weird about it is that he was singing in Mandarin. So Always Together is the track that a lot of if. If you know who he is, you probably know him because of this song. And for years collectors knew about this song. It was just this mystery as to who this guy was. You know, Jamaica does have this robust Chinese Jamaican population. People assume that he had come from that population. So I just became really curious about this song.
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David Remnick
So who is Steve Chang? He's from Shanghai, born in the twenties to a well to do family. How did he get involved in music?
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Hwasu
So he left China, went to Hawaii where he had some family, and then eventually ended up in New York City. And there he became really interested in performance. He did theater, perform music, and eventually he became Fascinated with this idea that he could invent this new style of music. Chinese folk rock is what he called it.
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David Remnick
What period is that?
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Hwasu
This was in the late 60s and early 70s. So he'd already toured quite a bit throughout Trinidad and Tobago, Jamaica. He was actually quite a big star there, particularly among the Chinese immigrant communities. He thought that maybe the style of Chinese operatic singing that he was bringing would be annoying to people. You know, he acknowledged that, but that's just sort of what he wanted to do. He wanted to bring these two different musical approaches into conversation.
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David Remnick
Where was this music produced? Tell me a little bit about the background of it.
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Hwasu
So this song came about because Steve was this performer. He played a lot of, like, hotel lounge shows. Wherever there were Chinese immigrants, he would. He would have a gig, and he ended up in Jamaica. The Chinese Benevolent association brought him out, and he linked up with Byron Lee, this famous Chinese Jamaican musician, and together they recorded this track.
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David Remnick
Now, how did you first hear about him?
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Hwasu
After? Always Together got on my radar. I'd been curating this show at the Museum of Chinese America. We found Stephen Chang's children, and they told us about this band, and his children had no idea about Always Together. It was the YouTube algorithm that served it to them. On the sidebar, one of his kids noticed, like, Stephen Chang, Always Together. Rocksteady. He clicked on it, and he's like, that's my dad.
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David Remnick
They had no idea.
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Hwasu
They had no idea. They knew he had gone to Jamaica. He'd spent time there, maybe even collaborated with local musicians, but they didn't know he had ever cut a. Rocksteady, wait.
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Interviewer
Clicking around on YouTube, all of a.
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David Remnick
Sudden, you discover that your dad was a.
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Interviewer
A rock star of some dimension. That's pretty cool.
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David Remnick
Well, let's listen to Butterfly Love as one of his signature love songs.
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Hwasu
Oh, Butterfly, how I love to play.
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Roger Federer
With you How I love to dance.
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Hwasu
With you.
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David Remnick
Tell me your reaction to your first time you heard that.
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Hwasu
Maybe it just. I just couldn't help but hear, you know, the imperfections, the accent. There's some, like, tense slippages. And yet he sounds so kind of confident and sincere. And sincere and brave as he's doing it. I mean, things where he just sings kind of louder and louder and with more and more gusto, and.
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Roger Federer
It'S incredibly.
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Interviewer
Corny, but it kind of makes you happy.
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Hwasu
Yeah, he just sings with a kind of zeal. It's so over the top. And all of his music has this interesting depth of meaning because he's often trying to translate into English. Sometimes he's singing in Chinese. Chinese stories, Chinese figures, Chinese archetypes into this English song style like the Chinese Romeo and Juliet is the story of the butterfly lovers.
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Interviewer
What's the tongue roll about? That's the key move there.
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Hwasu
I think that's just a Stephen Chang signature move right there.
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David Remnick
Music of the late Stephen Chang. He died in 2012.
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Hwasu
And you can.
- [19:05]
David Remnick
Find Hwasu's article about Chang@newyorker.com I'm David Remnick. Thanks for listening to the New Yorker Radio Hour today. Have a great week.
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Narrator/Producer
The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Toon Yards with additional music by Alexis Cuadrado. Our team includes Alex Barron, Emily Botin, Ave Carrillo, Rhiannon Corby, Jill Duboff, Karen Frillman, Kal Aliyah, David Krasnow, Caroline Lester, Louis Mitchell and Stephen Valentino, with help from Meng Fei Chen and Emily Mann. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Cherina Endowment Fund.