Special Preview: How the N.R.A. Uses Fear to Sell Guns

Summary

The New Yorker Radio Hour: Special Preview — How the N.R.A. Uses Fear to Sell Guns
Host: Evan Osnos | Guest: Mike Weiser
Date: June 22, 2016

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Episode Overview

In this special preview, New Yorker staff writer Evan Osnos interviews gun blogger, former dealer, and lifelong NRA member Mike Weiser. The discussion centers on how the National Rifle Association (NRA) utilizes fear—of crime, of social chaos, of government regulation—to shape the debate around gun regulation and drive gun sales in the United States. The conversation is set against the backdrop of the recent Orlando mass shooting, addressing culture, industry, and politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Weiser’s Early Relationship with Guns & the NRA

• Lifelong fascination: As a child in 1950s Washington, D.C., Mike Weiser had three main hobbies: toy soldiers, toy guns, and toy trains. He gravitated to guns early and joined an NRA-sponsored rifle team at age 11.
  • Quote: “I stayed with the guns.” ([00:32])
• Gun culture in the '50s: Walking home in D.C. with a rifle in a sack “was not unusual…for the way in which people thought and dealt with guns back in those days.” ([01:41])

The True Size of the American Gun Industry

• Small industry, big influence: Although culturally prominent, American gun manufacturing is relatively tiny, with six companies accounting for 80% of the market.
  • Quote: “Smith and Wesson has... 1800 employees. Ruger, maybe a couple of thousand. Ditto Remington. These are small companies.” ([02:13])
• The public perception: There’s a vast gap between the small industry’s actual scale and its enormous political/cultural profile—unique compared to “Big Oil” or “Big Tobacco.” ([02:38])

Mass Shootings and the Rise of Fear-Based Messaging

• Catalyst for NRA power: The political weight of the gun industry/ownership has grown mainly due to mass shootings, not everyday gun violence, which is often overlooked, as it’s “focused on inner city areas.” ([03:10])
• Shift in NRA focus: The NRA evolved from a focus on sport shooting and hunting to one on “crime, urban crime” from the mid-1980s onward.
  • Quote: “What they really began doing in the mid-80s was shift people’s attention towards the whole issue of crime, urban crime.” ([04:01])

Historical Moments: Fear, Race, and Gun Sales

• Rodney King riots: Televised violence during the 1992 Rodney King riots sparked gun purchases motivated by racial anxiety and urban fears.
  • Quote: “The day that that verdict was announced... you couldn't get into a gun shop to buy a gun because they were all sold out.” ([05:52])
• Lasting impact: The real legacy wasn’t just a sales boom, but the entrenchment of “the whole notion of using a gun or keeping a gun to protect yourself” and advocacy for concealed carry. ([06:13])

NRA Messaging: Fear, Patriotism, and Fact vs. Perception

• NRA rhetoric: Osnos plays audio of Wayne LaPierre framing urban crime as a direct threat to “ordinary” citizens and disparaging political “elites.”
  • Quote: “The elites and their families will always be protected. It’s the law abiding average Californians who... fight nightfall alone with their faith and what’s left of their guns.” — Wayne LaPierre ([07:06])
• Weiser’s analysis: NRA’s message “is a consistent attempt to marshal support on a basis of fear...and patriotism,” but not grounded in reality ([08:19])
• Why do people buy guns?
  • Most buyers aren’t acting out of real need or specific defense; they are influenced by messaging and repetition.
    • Quote: “Nobody wants to admit that they just spent 500 bucks on something they didn’t need. So they’ll just throw out whatever is in their head... Oh, I need a gun for self defense.” ([08:35])
  • Actual defensive gun use is “a very, very tiny fraction” of owners. ([08:56])

The True Driver of Gun Sales: Fear of Regulation

• Main factor: The only reliable spike in sales comes from “the fear that you won’t be able to get a gun.” ([09:59])
  • This has persisted throughout the Obama presidency, despite many gun laws relaxing, not tightening.
  • Quote: “There’s only one thing which spikes gun sales... that’s the fear you won’t be able to get a gun.” ([10:13])

Manipulating Perception Through Information

• Disconnect between crime rates and fear: Violent crime has decreased, but “the percentage of people...who say violent crime is going up grows.” ([11:25])
• NRA uses dual message: Guns as mainstream, but gun owners as “a persecuted minority.” This isolation helps to “rev them up.” ([12:19])
  • Quote: “The moment that you can make people think they’re a persecuted minority, you can really rev them up.” ([12:27])

The Role of Disasters & Entertainment in NRA Messaging

• Disaster response marketing: After natural disasters or unrest, the NRA intensifies messaging about self-reliance and danger, invoking events like Hurricane Katrina to push laws like stand-your-ground.
  • Quote: “The hurricane was invoked as a reason to pass the stand your ground law, which... removed the requirement to retreat...” ([14:04])
• Weiser’s skepticism: In practice, he observed townspeople buying food, not guns, before storms. He sees the NRA’s dramatic “Freedom’s Safest Place” videos as “pure entertainment” serving a specific subculture. ([16:10])
  • Quote: “You’re playing to that culture and you know, go to an NRA show and that’s who’s walking around.” ([16:32])

Regionalism and Gun Culture

• Concentration: Two-thirds of American guns are owned by residents of the 13 Confederate states, three border states, and rural parts of four Midwestern states. ([16:17])
• Culture war: The podcast discusses regional identity, with gun culture tied deeply to the rural and Southern/American heartland. ([16:52])

Consequences of a Fear-Based Approach

• Promotion of division: Fear-based and inflammatory messaging increases division, particularly around immigration and “otherness.” It stokes the idea that “I’m afraid, I’d better get a gun.” ([17:22])
  • Quote: “What’s really being pumped up in the immigration is fear of people who are unlike us... that unfortunately then flows right back to the whole notion of—well, I'm afraid I'd better have a gun.” ([17:33])
• Personal effect on Weiser: He now strongly disapproves of the modern NRA focus on self-defense and fear. He finds no credible evidence that armed citizens increase safety, arguing “You don't sell a consumer product that creates risk.” ([18:18], [18:55])

Legislative Change & the Future

• Difficulty of passing gun control: Major legislation has only occurred when Democrats with Southern ties held the White House and Congress, as in 1968 and 1994. Lacking this, even mass shootings seldom drive new laws. ([19:44])
  • Quote: “We did not have that after Sandy Hook. Without that constellation, I don’t see a gun bill passing.” ([19:44])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There’s no reality to any of this. What there is is a consistent attempt to marshal support on a basis of fear on the one hand, and patriotism on the other.” — Mike Weiser ([08:19])
• “There’s only one thing which spikes gun sales... that’s the fear you won’t be able to get a gun.” — Mike Weiser ([10:13])
• “The moment that you can make people think they’re a persecuted minority, you can really rev them up.” — Mike Weiser ([12:27])
• “[Regarding self-defense:] I have never seen one piece of credible research which shows, or even remotely shows, that walking around with a gun protects you from crime or protects you from anything else... the research simply does not support the point of view that armed citizens are doing anything to make our community safe, if anything to the contrary.” — Mike Weiser ([18:18])

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Important Timestamps

• 00:32 — Weiser reflects on childhood and early gun culture.
• 02:03 — Overview of the true size of the gun industry.
• 04:01 — Historical NRA focus shift from sport to crime.
• 05:52 — Impact of Rodney King riots on gun buying.
• 07:06 — Wayne LaPierre’s fear-based NRA messaging (audio clip).
• 08:19 — Weiser critiques NRA’s marketing as based on fear and patriotism.
• 09:59 — The role of regulation fear in spiking gun sales.
• 11:25 — Discussion of public fear versus actual crime statistics.
• 14:04 — Disasters’ role in justifying gun advocacy.
• 16:10 — Weiser: NRA’s “Freedom’s Safest Place” video is “pure entertainment.”
• 17:22 — Secondary effects: fear leading to division and othering.
• 18:18 — Weiser’s position on responsible gun ownership and the lack of evidence for self-defense benefits.
• 19:44 — Why mass shootings rarely move the legislative needle.

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Tone and Style

This episode blends Osnos’ incisive questioning with Weiser's candid, often wry, and deeply informed responses. Both maintain a respectful but probing tone throughout. Weiser, as both an insider and a critic, offers uniquely nuanced insight.

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Ideal for listeners interested in American politics, gun culture, and the psychology of fear in public life, this episode critically examines the ways the NRA’s rhetoric has reshaped the American relationship with guns — and with each other.

Transcript

[A]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour with a special preview. In the next episode of the Radio Hour, staff writer Evan Osnos talks with gun blogger Mike Weiser about how the NRA uses fear to influence the debate on gun regulation. Weiser's a former gun dealer, gun safety instructor, and a lifelong NRA member. They talk shortly after the mass killing in Orlando. This interview will be part of the New Yorker Radio Hour's June 24 episode.

[B]

You know, as a typical kid in the 50s, I had three hobbies, which was toy soldiers, toy guns, and toy trains. My mother threw out the trains, which is why Lionel trains are worth so much. And I'm not sure what happened to the stamp collection, but I stayed with the guns.

[A]

What was it, do you think about guns beyond the obvious little kids, you know, love to pick up a plastic.

[B]

I think, you know, I don't think that that's obvious in the sense that I think the little kids, you know, having the gun playing, thinking of all the fantasies that it involves, I think it just stays with you into adulthood. It's really no different. I mean, if you were to go to a model train show, you'd see the same crowd.

[A]

Did you grow up hunting? Were you in a place?

[B]

No, I did hunt a lot. I have hunted a lot over the years. But I grew up actually in the middle of Washington, D.C. and as a matter of fact, when I grew up in Washington, which was in the 50s, that's when I joined the NRA when I was 11 years old, because I was a member of a rifle team, an NRA sponsored rifle team that we shot in the rifle range in my brother's junior high school, McFarland Junior High School. And I would take the gun home Fridays in a little sack, walk home for a mile, clean it, play with it, bring it back Monday. And this is the middle of Washington, D.C. and that was not unusual for the way in which people thought and dealt with guns back in those days.

[A]

You now live outside Springfield, Massachusetts, home of Smith and Wesson. It's really sort of in the center of the gun world in America. How big of an industry are we talking about? How many?

[B]

It's actually a very tiny industry. I mean, there are, you know, there are five companies that together, if you go into any gun shop, these five companies are maybe six companies. 80% of the guns that are in these shops are made by these six companies. Smith and Wesson has, I don't know, 1800 employees. Ruger, maybe a couple of thousand. You know, ditto Remington. These are small companies. The contrast between the size of the industry in terms of the dollar amounts, as opposed to the public concern about the industry, is extraordinary. There's no other industry like that.

[A]

How do we then understand the fact that when we talk about the gun industry in America, often we associate it in the same breath with things like big Oil and Big tobacco, these vast industrial and political enterprises. So how is it that in fact, this tiny industry, as you put it, has accumulated such a large political profile.

[B]

Largely because of one thing and one thing only, and that's the mass shootings.

[A]

The mass shootings. Tell me more what you mean.

[B]

This year, okay, roughly 200 people a day will be seriously injured because somebody pointed a gun at them and pulled the trigger. And this has been going on with this level of violence since the mid-80s. But because it's, for the most part, focused on inner city areas, it's not the kind of thing that gets into the paper because we always think of the inner city as being a place of crime. So what else is new? So it's not the fact that you have this kind of daily in and out, you know, shootings. It's more when something that really newsworthy occurs, and that's obviously when you get a mass shooting.

[A]

You joined the NRA when you were 11 years old. Is it a different organization today than it was back then?

[B]

When I joined the nra, the organization overwhelmingly focused on sport shooting and hunting. And that's why most people own guns. I mean, in 1955, three quarters, maybe almost 80% of all the guns that Americans owned were long guns, shotguns and rifles. And they were owned because the population was overwhelmingly still either rural or it was, you know, farming. And the NRA reflected that. What they really began doing in the mid-80s was shift people's attention towards the whole issue of crime, urban crime.

[A]

In the history of guns in America, the Rodney King verdict and the riots that followed are important. Tell us the story of what happened.

[B]

Rodney King was arrested and then severely beaten up by a group of lapd. The beating was actually caught. Somebody was filming it. Three or four of the cops were charged with assault, and the jury came back with a not guilty verdict. And the day that that verdict was announced, by that evening, there were whole sections of downtown LA that were up in flames. And there had been riots after Martin Luther King had been shot, too. But in the 1960s, you didn't have video, but I remember sitting in front of my TV set and there was a camera, a news camera in a helicopter, and a car pulled up at an intersection, and three or four African American young men pulled this white driver out of the car and began punching him in the the middle of the street. And the helicopter with the camera was up there broadcasting it live. And that broadcast and the subsequent broadcasts were seen in every household in America.

[A]

And what effect did it have on.

[B]

Gun sales the next day? You couldn't get into a gun shop to buy a gun because they were all sold out.

[A]

Did the impact of that, the idea behind that surge in gun sales, in effect that was prompted by that racial anxiety and the vision of crime in the city. Did that continue or was it a short term phenomenon?

[B]

It wasn't. The actual sales weren't. It was the whole notion of using a gun or keeping a gun to protect yourself. That's what continued and grew in terms of the dialogue, in terms of the culture. That's when state level NRA organizations began pushing for concealed carry. That's when a group of right wing lawyers first began planning a case that would eventually get to the court, which it did in 2008. So it wasn't so much that the gun sales continued at a high level, but it was more that the whole kind of culture of the industry and the whole discussion about guns changed and continued.

[A]

If we want to get a window into how the NRA talks about crime and the fear of crime, it might be useful to listen to a clip from Wayne LaPierre. The NRA tragedy introduced us to the.

[C]

Heroes of San Bernardino's police department. But tragedy is routine in their city where politicians slash their budget and cut their ranks. Now violent gangs wage bloody turf wars every night. They have all the guns they want. But law abiding California citizens live in fear. Their governor says he serves them While he releases 2,300 convicted murderers back to the same streets they terrorize. The elites lecture about compassion. But if there was even an inkling that these killers would head for Beverly Hills or Berkeley, they'd die behind bars. The elites and their families will always be protected. It's the law abiding average Californians who fight face nightfall alone with their faith and what's left of their guns. I'm the National Rifle association of America and I'm freedom's safest place.

[A]

Mike. We hear in that a whole range of different kinds of artifacts of this moment, different kinds of threats, presumably to people's safety. Can you explain what it is that's going on there? What would inspire that message and what does the NRA hope people will get from it?

[B]

There's no reality to Any of this, okay? What there is is a consistent attempt to marshal support on a basis of fear on the one hand, and patriotism on the other.

[A]

How much do people believe it and how much do they say this is nonsense?

[B]

Here's the problem, you know, I mean, I sold guns to over 9 or 10,000 people in my gun shop, okay? And I can tell you when they walked in and they bought the gun. They walked in to buy the gun because they wanted to buy a gun. You're not buying something that you need, okay? It's something to buy, okay? And nobody wants to admit that they just spent 500 bucks on something that they didn't need. So they'll just throw out whatever is in their head. And whatever is in their head is usually what they heard from somebody else. Oh, I need a gun for self defense. But the bottom line is that the number of people who really ultimately use a gun in self defense is a very, very tiny fraction of the number of people who own and number of people who buy guns. And as far as the idea of the, you know, the patriotic side, I mean, you can use a patriotic argument for really anything. I mean, when was the last time you went to the super bowl and at the end of the halftime show didn't see the Blue Angels fly overhead? Now, that's not an appeal to patriotism. Of course it is. What does it have to do with the Super Bowl? Nothing.

[A]

So if we want to understand what sells guns, it seems that these days, and gun companies these days are setting records. In fact, what are the factors that actually have contributed to this?

[B]

There's only one thing. There's only one thing which spikes gun sales. And this has been historically true since as long as I've been in the gun business, which is 50 years, and I. And that's the fear that you won't be able to get a gun.

[A]

The fear that you won't be able to get a gun.

[B]

Correct. And that fear, of course, has been ongoing over the whole Obama administration.

[A]

But hold on, because in the same period that Obama's been in the White House, the laws on guns have in fact been relaxed in a whole variety of ways in various states, allowing, making it easier, for instance, to be able to get a concealed carry permit. So how is it that if the laws are, in fact getting more money.

[B]

Do you think that there's any relationship between the marketing slogans and the marketing campaigns of the gun industry? And fact, I mean, are we in the same conversation here? Listen, you know, in my town, in my town, which has the most deliciously clean drinking water that you can imagine. You should see people who line up and. And buy bottled water. Okay. There's no relationship.

[A]

So when you listen to Wayne lapierre talking about the things that he's afraid of in America, you hear over and over again this emphasis on fear, that one should be afraid, that one has to be afraid, and that one has to protect themselves against.

[B]

You know, it's not. I need to interrupt you right there. You said listen, Wayne Pierre. Wayne lapierre. What he's afraid of? No, it's not what he's afraid of. It's what the public opinion surveys tell him. People are afraid. Both Pew and Gallup, but I take Pew to be a little more scientific, although not much, are astonished to discover that as the rate of violent crime continues to go down, the percentage of people that they survey who say that violent crime is going up grows. But the fact is that the ability to create, you know, in the public mind, a reality that may not really match the facts and happens all the time and not just in the gun world.

[A]

One of the things that we heard in that clip is that Wayne lapierre talked about, quote, what's left of our guns, which is sort of a surprising thing to say. We have 310 million guns in America. Never had more. What is he talking about? What sort of message is he trying.

[B]

To say, what he's trying to do? And this has been a very successful message. Okay. Is the idea that, you know, they play it both ways. They want guns to be a mainstream, ordinary thing that everybody accepts, and yet at the same time, they want all the gun owners to think that they are this persecuted minority. And the moment that you can make people think that they're a persecuted minority, you can really rev them up. So that's what that part of that clip was about, was to remind the gun owners that they are in peril and they are vulnerable because the elites, the policymakers, whatever you want to call them, don't like guns. And if they turn their backs for one second, they're going to take them away. Right.

[A]

To play another clip here, which is from an NRA video series called Defending Our America, New Orleans is a perfect example of how fast law enforcement was overrun and how fast they turned to their primal instincts, because New Orleans PD had a huge chunk of officers that just said, I'm done. I'm going home with my family, because I can't do this. And when you have an environment where law enforcement can't effectively enforce the law, the Predators are going to start to take over and they'll move in and take over an area faster than anybody can even comprehend. Well, what I'm interested in, if you look back over the history of the nra, oftentimes natural disasters or any kind of disruption in social order, if you want to call it that, becomes an opportunity to reach out to people. And you've seen this in Florida, for instance, after a hurricane. The hurricane was invoked as a reason to pass the stand your ground law, which as we know removed the requirement to retreat, gave people greater latitude to.

[B]

Use a gun, also increased the homicide rate. But that's okay.

[A]

Mike, what do you think the effect is on people of hearing messages like that? Do you think they believe it?

[B]

You know, remember that the NRA is kind of like everybody else these days. You're on the Internet, you got to stay on all the time. You have to have a new message every day or it gets stale. I don't think people listen that closely. I'm sure there's a segment of the population that's going to go buy that freeze dried food from the Glenn Beck show. But you know, I can tell you that whenever there was around the town where my gun shop is, whenever there was a word that there was going to be a big storm coming in, a really bad one, where you know there's going to be disruption of basic services, what everybody did was run to the supermarket and buy food. I didn't notice them coming into the gun shop to buy an extra gun.

[A]

We're going to play one other clip here which is from the NRA's video series called Freedom's Safest Place to the.

[C]

Ayatollahs of Iran and every terrorist you enable. Listen up. You might have met our fresh faced flower child president and his weak kneed Ivy League friends, but you haven't met America. You haven't met the heartland where the people will defend this nation with their bloody calloused bare hands. That's what it takes. You haven't met the steel workers and the hard rock miners or the swamp folks in Cajun country who can wrestle a full grown gator out of the water. You haven't met the farmers, the cowboys, the loggers and the truck drivers. You don't know the mountain men who live off the land or the brave cops who fight the good fight in the urban war zones. No, you've never met America. And you ought to pray you never do. I'm the National Rifle association of America and I'm freedom's safest place.

[B]

Welcome to Grand Ole Opry.

[A]

Mike, what do you make of that?

[B]

It's pure entertainment.

[A]

Is that how it's intended, do you think?

[B]

Two thirds of all guns are owned by. By the residents of 13 Confederate states, three border states, and rural parts of four Midwestern states. Okay. That's gun culture.

[A]

So when you play Charlie Daniels, you are.

[B]

You're playing to that culture and you know, go to an NRA show and that's who's walking around. He's right. That's not where the Ivy League. What did he call?

[A]

I think, Fresh face.

[B]

That's not where they are.

[A]

Fresh faced flower child, you know, Exactly.

[B]

And you know, this country has always been much more a regional than a national country. And the regionalism involved in guns is very, very intense and hasn't really changed.

[A]

Do you think there is secondary effects of marketing on the basis of fear, of promoting fear, and frankly, a kind of hatred when it comes to our culture or any culture? I mean, what is the future?

[B]

I think, unfortunately, that that is what may emerge out of this, you know, the very recent coincidence of fear and this whole immigration thing. Because what is really coming out, you know, what's really being pumped up in the immigration is fear of people who are unlike us. And to the extent that Muslims are much more unlike us. So it's claimed. It's not true, but. So it's claimed. And that unfortunately then flows right back to the whole notion of, well, I'm afraid I better have a gun.

[A]

Over the years, you have seen that the NRA has placed a greater emphasis on the role of fear, on the effects of fear, and frankly, on the opportunities presented by fear. Has that changed the way you look at the nra?

[B]

Oh, yeah, definitely. You know, if the NRA would be supporting guns on the basis of what I believe they should be used for by civilians, which is shooting sports and hunting, they'd get no argument from me. I have never seen, and I'm very serious about this, I have never seen one piece of credible research which shows, or even remotely shows that walking around with a gun protects you from crime or protects you from anything else. And I'm not going to get into an argument because somebody comes up with an anecdote here and an anecdote there. Either we have research or we don't. And the research, and I've seen it and I've read all of it, the research simply does not support the point of view that armed citizens are doing anything to make our community safe, if anything to the contrary. And as far as I'M concerned you don't sell a consumer product. That creates risk.

[A]

We can't talk about guns today without talking about mass shootings. We are, after all, talking just a few days after a massacre in Orlando, Florida, the largest mass shooting in American history. And I wonder whether, in fact, this will have a meaningful effect on our discussion of guns in America, or will it become just another, another name, another place on the list.

[B]

We have had two major gun control pieces of legislation at the federal level, 1968 Gun Control act of 68, which set up the whole regulatory environment. And then, of course, 1994 with Brady. Both of those laws happened with liberal Democrats who were Southerners in the White House, and Democratic control of Congress. We did not have that after Sandy Hook. Without that kind of constellation, I don't see a gun bill passing.

[A]

But if you had that kind of constellation, then absolutely.

[B]

Oh, there's no question about it. I mean, if the doomsday scenarios that are being painted about Trump's candidacy hold true, and if he not only goes down the tubes but brings a lot of Republicans with him, then you could possibly have that kind of a constellation back in power in Washington. And I'm for sure there'd be a gun bill.

[A]

Mike, thank you very, very much for talking with us.

[B]

My pleasure. Anytime.

[A]

That's New Yorker staff writer Evan Osnos in conversation with Mike Weiser. He blogs as Mike the Gunguy.

[B]

Don't.