The Art of Cooking with Ina Garten

Summary

The Art of Cooking with Ina Garten – A Detailed Summary

The New Yorker Radio Hour, co-produced by WNYC Studios and The New Yorker, features an engaging episode titled "The Art of Cooking with Ina Garten." Hosted by David Remnick, this episode delves into the culinary journey of Ina Garten, exploring her philosophy, personal experiences, and insights into making cooking accessible and enjoyable for everyone.

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Introduction to Ina Garten

David Remnick opens the conversation by highlighting Ina Garten's widespread acclaim, not just as a celebrity chef but as an authentic and relatable figure in the culinary world. He emphasizes her approachable style and the genuine warmth she brings to her recipes, making complex dishes seem attainable.

David Remnick [01:47]: "Her approach to food is classic and above all, accessible. ... The person you see on TV is the one you get in person."

Ina's Early Culinary Influences and Challenges

Ina Garten reflects on her childhood, revealing a less-than-ideal dinner environment. Her mother, a dietitian, prioritized nutrition over flavor, leading to bland meals that were more about sustenance than enjoyment. This lack of warmth around food shaped Ina's later approach to cooking.

Ina Garten [03:44]: "My mother was making dinner... she had no interest in food. So she would get dinner on the table, but there was no joy in it."

She discusses the absence of culinary guidance from her mother, who did not involve her in the kitchen, leaving Ina to discover cooking independently after marriage. This independence fostered her passion for creating comforting meals for friends and family.

Ina Garten [05:26]: "I was in my room my whole childhood, and I think that’s why now, cooking for Friends and Jeffrey and doing the show... is so satisfying."

Embarking on Her Culinary Journey

Ina shares her initial foray into cooking seriously, motivated by the desire to create joyful meals rather than mere sustenance. Purchasing Craig Claiborne's The New York Times Cookbook marked the beginning of her culinary education.

Ina Garten [06:45]: "I made a challah... I really love things that challenge me that I think I can’t do and then make them and show myself that I can do them."

Developing Accessible Recipes

In her book "Go to Dinners," Ina Garten focuses on simplifying recipes to empower home cooks. She emphasizes that anyone can create delicious meals without intimidation.

Ina Garten [07:54]: "It does come full circle... I was making a recipe every day for Instagram so people could figure out what to do with those white beans that they had in their pantry."

During the pandemic, the necessity to simplify cooking further inspired her, leading to accessible and straightforward recipes that provide comfort during uncertain times.

Ina's Cooking Philosophy

Ina discusses the intricacies of cooking, particularly with ingredients like chicken, which can be unpredictable. Despite her challenges, she finds joy in the process and the satisfaction when meals turn out well.

Ina Garten [06:55]: "Cooking’s hard... I have to make sure it comes out well."

She underscores the importance of confidence in the kitchen, encouraging cooks to trust their instincts and enjoy the process.

Success of The Barefoot Contessa

Reflecting on her store, The Barefoot Contessa, Ina attributes its success to creating an engaging and sensory-rich environment. It wasn't just about food; it was about the overall experience—smells, sights, sounds, and tastes—that made customers return.

Ina Garten [11:05]: "I wanted all of your senses engaged... It was about the feeling of being in the store."

Transition to Television

Ina shares her initial reluctance to transition from bookstores to television, despite multiple offers. Her eventual decision was driven by a desire to connect more deeply with people through the visual medium.

Ina Garten [12:28]: "I didn’t think anybody would want to watch me cook on TV... I just need to be myself on TV."

This authenticity resonated with audiences, establishing her as a beloved television personality.

Engaging with Viewers and Answering Questions

Throughout the episode, Ina addresses questions from listeners, offering practical culinary advice:

• Transforming Potatoes for Party Hors d'Oeuvres: Ina suggests making potato latkes, which can be prepared in advance and reheated, making them ideal for gatherings.

  Ina Garten [15:55]: "You can prepare them in advance, put them on a sheet pan and reheat them in the oven."

• The Role of Bay Leaves: She expresses skepticism about the necessity of bay leaves, noting that in some recipes, their absence doesn't noticeably alter the outcome.

  Ina Garten [16:56]: "I always also wonder whether a bay leaf makes a difference. I’ve never made them without the bay leaves to see if it made a difference."

• Creating Special Meals for Two: Ina recommends roast pork loins paired with potato and apple fennel puree and shaved Brussels sprouts, highlighting simplicity and elegance.

  Ina Garten [17:33]: "Roast pork loins... marinate them and roast them. Serve them with potato and apple and fennel puree and some shaved brussels sprouts."

Evolution of Vegetable Preparation

Ina discusses her pioneering approach to roasting vegetables, which transformed how dishes like Brussels sprouts are perceived. Roasting enhances flavor by caramelizing sugars, making vegetables more appealing.

Ina Garten [18:04]: "I started roasting brussels sprouts instead of boiling them. It’s like crispy french fries. Fantastic."

Personal Touches and Style

Amid culinary discussions, Ina shares personal anecdotes, such as her affection for scarves, illustrating her personable and relatable nature.

Ina Garten [18:46]: "I have drawers and drawers of scarves. I just love having a scarf around my neck."

Closing Thoughts

David Remnick wraps up the conversation by acknowledging Ina Garten's impactful presence in both the culinary and television worlds. Ina expresses gratitude for the opportunity to share her experiences and looks forward to continuing to inspire home cooks.

Ina Garten [19:13]: "So much fun to talk to you as always, David."

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Conclusion

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour offers an intimate look into Ina Garten's life, her approach to cooking, and her journey from a challenging childhood to becoming a culinary icon. Her emphasis on accessibility, simplicity, and genuine passion for food resonates throughout the conversation, providing valuable insights for both seasoned chefs and home cooks alike.

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Notable Quotes:

• Ina Garten [04:43]: "It wasn't a joyful time."
• Ina Garten [05:26]: "I was in my room my whole childhood... cooking for Friends and Jeffrey and doing the show... is so satisfying."
• Ina Garten [07:54]: "It does come full circle... I was making a recipe every day for Instagram..."
• Ina Garten [06:55]: "Cooking’s hard... I have to make sure it comes out well."
• Ina Garten [18:04]: "I started roasting brussels sprouts instead of boiling them. It’s like crispy french fries. Fantastic."

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This summary encapsulates the essence of "The Art of Cooking with Ina Garten", providing a comprehensive overview of the discussions, insights, and personal stories shared during the episode.

Transcript

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[Listener Support]

Listener support wnyc Studios.

[David Remnick]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker.

[Ina Garten]

Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Ina Garten is not just a household name. She's beloved. With the help of her Food Network program, the Barefoot Countessa, not to mention all those viral videos, Garten has 14 million cookbooks in print. Her success doesn't come from pioneering recipes or being in the foodie avant garde. It's got more to do with a confiding, authentic warmth that tells you that you too can make coq a vin or a roast tenderloin, or some roast carrots, even. Just follow the recipe. You can do it. Her approach to food is classic and above all, accessible. I've known her for a while and I must tell you that the person you see on TV is the one you get in person. Funny, unpretentious, a shrewd businesswoman and a master of every chicken recipe known in the history of chicken. When she goes on book tour, she doesn't come to a bookstore. She sells out the Kennedy Center. She's pretty successful. A couple of years back, Ina Garten published A book called Go to Dinners, and I asked her to join me on the program. Now, I have to start out by telling you the last time I had a famous cook on the show. I may have told you this. It was Jacques Pepin. And on the radio with my laptop in the kitchen, I made crepes with him and.

Wow.

Exactly. With my wife Esther laughing at me in the corner of the kitchen. So we're not gonna. We're not gonna cook?

We're just gonna talk? We're not cooking. Okay, we'll cook in person. How's that exactly?

I'd love to do that.

Nothing worse than having your wife laughing at you.

It's a daily.

Your very, very smart wife laughing at you.

It's an hourly occurrence. Now, you write in the preface to this book, early in the book, you said that when you were growing up, you had dreaded dinner time. Why was it dreaded? Was the food so terrible? What was your. Was it your mom that was making dinner?

My mother was making dinner. My father was a ear surgeon, and my mother was very. I think now I might say that she would be diagnosed with Asperger's, didn't have relationships, and she had no interest in food. So she would get dinner on the table, but there was no joy in it.

What was dinner on the table? What was it?

I had broiled chicken, canned peas. What would I say? She was a dietitian by training and didn't believe in carbohydrates. So we never had bread or potatoes or polenta or anything absolutely delicious. I mean, we didn't even have frozen vegetables. We had canned vegetables. I particularly remember Harvard beets, one of my least favorite things in the world. And no child likes Harvard Beach. You might develop a flavor for it, a taste for it afterwards, but not when you're 10.

And it sounds like dinner was not a joyful time.

It wasn't a joyful time. And my parents, particularly, my father was very stern taskmaster and would grill us about whatever was in school. He would criticize us. So when dinner was over, I had a nice knot in my stomach, and they would always want me to eat faster. So they would say, every time your brother takes a bite, you take a bite.

Oh, my God.

I'd be like, ugh, I just can't.

When is the first time you picked up a frying pan in earnest? It wasn't just when you got married.

Later on, 100% was when I got married, I was never allowed in the kitchen, so my mother never taught me how to do Anything. And, I mean, she didn't see any joy in it. She thought. Felt that my job was to study, and it was her job to make dinner. And I think she wasn't comfortable with me being in the same room with her. So she would always say, you go study. And so I was in my room my whole childhood, and I think I was pretty lonely. I think that that's why now, cooking for Friends and Jeffrey and doing the show, Be my guest, where I'm connecting with people is so satisfying.

In other words, you like to cook with people around, not by your lonesome in the kitchen.

I prefer to cook by myself. You do, and I do. Cooking's hard for me. I mean, I do it a lot, but it's really hard. And I just love having the space to concentrate on what I'm doing, so I make sure it comes out well. Cooking's hard. I mean, when you go to the butcher and you order a chicken, it's a different size every time. It's a different kind of chicken. I mean, you know, some chickens, they're allowed to add water to it. You have no idea what you're gonna get. So it's. I mean, just the simplest thing is. Chicken can be complicated. I do find it hard. I really. I'm not confident that it's gonna come out well. And I have to say, I'm surprised when it does, I think.

Do you remember the.

Maybe I have high standards.

Do you remember the first time you made a dinner in earnest for you and Jeffrey?

Well, probably as soon as we got married, because it wasn't like we had the money to go out for dinner. So when we were engaged, before we got married, I remember going out and buying Craig Claiborne's the New York Times Cookbook. And I went to. What was it called? It's a store like. I think it was called Caldor. And I bought entire set of kitchen equipment. And I just was really excited about being able to cook. But I remember within the first month, I made a challah. And I remember thinking, that's what you're gonna start with. But I did. I just. I really love things that challenge me that I think I can't do and then make them and show myself that I can do them.

I get the feeling. And this is far from your first book. You've had many books before this. But Go to Dinners is a book, in a way, made for Ina Garten back then. In other words, these are, in some ways, the least intimidating recipes you could imagine. You're almost Telling the reader, you know, darling, I know you think you can't do anything, but even you can do this.

It actually does come full circle, doesn't it? Because once I've learned how to cook. And then, of course, I got Mastering the Art of French Cooking, both volumes, and worked my way through those. So I learned the French techniques from Julia Child. And I really believe in simplifying things. But what happened in the pandemic is we were also completely stressed. We didn't know what we could do, what we couldn't do. I was making a recipe every day for Instagram so people could figure out what to do with those white beans that they had in their pantry. 3,000 bottles of white beans, Exactly. So many white beans and whatever they had. I was making recipes for my cookbook for this book, and I was cooking lunch and dinner for Jeffrey and me every single day. And by sometime around May or June, I was like in bed with the covers up over my head. And I thought, I really need to simplify. So it is true that I came full circle, but for a different reason.

Now, I've admitted this to you before, but I now admitting it to everybody who's listening to Relax. I don't cook. I watch cooking videos. I watch you. I watch Jacques Pepin. I watch this Szechuan guy who has. Who's going 300 miles an hour making incredible food. But I can't cook. Hold my hand and tell me what I need to know. Initially, if I'm having four people, over six people, whatever it is, what do I need to know? What do I not need to be nervous about? And what would you recommend? I start with?

I think there's one thing everybody should know how to do, which is a roast chicken. And I do it in all different forms. I do it with potatoes and fennel. I do it in this book, I have a spring roast chicken or roast chicken with spring vegetables, things like asparagus. You can put almost any kind of vegetable in a roasting pan and a chicken on top of it and put it in the oven. It's the easiest thing in the world. And the only thing you have to do is make sure you don't overcook the chicken. People get really nasty nervous.

So you think this is the easiest thing. This is the point of entry.

Any kind of roast chicken or the chicken in a pot, which is just as easy as can be. You put it in a big pot with chicken stock and vegetables, and then you add saffron to give it a little heat. And then Orzo. And you've got a whole dinner all in one pot.

Now, I have to ask you, I'm lucky enough to know Jeffrey, but I think for most people who watch you, they see Jeffrey at the end of your show, and he'll be saying something like, this is the best soup I've ever had, or this chicken's unbelievable, or something like that. And you think to yourself, he can't possibly be this nice and this brilliant at the same time.

He's just so appreciative. And I think it's one of the reasons why I love to cook. Because if you cook for somebody who doesn't appreciate it, there's no satisfaction in it. I made him one day, I made him a cup of tea, and he said, oh, this is the best tea I've ever had. And I was like, jeffrey, it's a cup of hot water in a tea bag. It was a particularly good tea. But I mean, still, he just. He. Nothing goes by him. He really appreciates it, which I love.

Now, you ran a store, you owned a store from 1978 to 1996, a long time, the Barefoot Contessa. And why did that hit the way it hit out in the Hamptons? It was an incredible success.

You know, I thought of it as a party. I wanted. When you walked in the door, I wanted all of your senses engaged. I wanted you to smell something wonderful. I wanted you to see a wonderful display of produce or I wanted to hear great music. But it was old fashioned, like Tony Bennett and Frank Sinatra or whatever was fun to listen to. There were samples of things all over the store, so you could taste things, and people would just come in just because it was fun. And I thought, if they're gonna come because it's fun, they'll always come when they're hungry. And I think that's what worked. It wasn't really about the food. It was about the feeling of being in the store.

It seems impossible to imagine, but there was a time, Ina, that you were not as famous as you are now. You started publishing these cookbooks and you were hesitant about doing a television show. I mean, you got offers, I think more than once before you. Before you decided to go forward with it. What was your hesitation?

You know, I didn't think anybody would want to watch me cook on tv. Actually, Food Network kindly made me an offer. And I kept saying no, and they kept coming back. And there was someone there, Eileen Opet, who just kept saying, make me a better offer. And I kept saying to her, no, I just don't want to do this. And she just kept coming back. And finally, I had heard about a show that somebody said was a really good cooking show. And it was Nigella Lawson's show. And unbeknownst to me, they went to London, found her producer, told me that they were coming to East Hampton, like, in two weeks. And I was like, whoa, whoa. I said I wasn't gonna do this. And Eileen said, just. Just do 13 shows, thinking, like, how hard could that be? And they arrived on my doorstep and I thought, okay, let's see what we can do. And one of the things I think about in life is, you gotta jump in the pond. You say no to things without really understanding. Like, I said no to Instagram before I understood what it was. And I kept saying no, that I was just like, I love writing cookbooks. I want to keep doing that. And I can't imagine being on tv.

It always seemed to me that the most successful ones, there was some character involved. Julia Child was a big character. She had personality traits that we could easily list. Graham Kerr did. All kinds of people who've done it. How do you think about that in terms of the personality you put? Because I have to say, being lucky enough to know you, it seems like one and the same person.

I am the same person you see on tv. I found a coach who would teach me how to be on tv. And I have no idea why I knew this, but after one session with her, I thought, that's just awful. Nothing she said made sense to me. And I thought, I just need to be myself on tv. It's the only thing that works. And I don't know why I knew that. I just knew it.

I have to say, though, I'm watching you cook and there's a move that you do. All of a sudden, a stick and a half of butter goes into the pan and you look up, both with mischief in your eyes and a little guiltily, and say, yeah, but it makes a lot of brownies. Okay, go ahead.

Do you know what I believe? I think we should eat real food. And if it's delicious, it's worth cooking for. My favorite expression is if you eat low fat, a low fat diet, it's not that you live longer, it just seems longer. Isn't that true?

Now we have. We have some questions sent by email to you. This comes from Julie Wilson and Maureen Tipping in Comer, Northern Ireland. And this question is from my neighbor Maureen and me, Julie. We're tuning in from Comber, which is a small village just outside of Belfast. During COVID our neighborhood came together into a really lovely, supportive and fun community. We went from being neighbors to. To being friends. This Christmas we would like to co host a party for our street. Our village is famous for potatoes. So we're really keen to know if Ina has any ideas on how to transform the humble spud into a delicious party food. Hors d'oeuvre.

A potato hors d'oeuvre is an interesting thing.

Keep in mind you're giving potato tips to Ireland. That's a tall odd.

Exactly. That's really daunting. You know what I would do is I'd make potato latkes. I think that would be great.

Wow. And you have a great recipe for that.

I should say I do. And what you can do is you can prepare them in advance, put them on a sheet pan and reheat them in the oven. Warm them in the oven.

Sounds delish.

Is that a good one?

From Alex Lewin in Berkeley, California. Dear Ms. Garten, About 10 years ago, I read a short story in Harper's about which I remember nothing. Not the title, the author of the plot, except for a scene in which a character fishes a bay leaf out of a bowl of soup and flicks it away and he tells his dining companion, bay leaves are bs. Ever since then, I've been nagged by the question, are bay leaves bs? Whenever I put them in anything, I can't tell what effect they have. Am I using them wrong? Also, is it true that they should be kept in the freezer?

Okay, I really don't know the answer to this. And I will say that I always also wonder whether a bay leaf makes a difference. And there are a couple of things that I use bay leaves in, and I've always wanted to make them without the bay leaves to see if it made a difference, and I never have. So I. I'm not sure this is.

Can I just say, this is called making news. Ina Garten calls bullshit on bay leaves. I'm. I'm.

I'm with that now.

These are questions from New Yorker Instagram. What to make for two people while still making it feel like a holiday and a special meal. This is from Teresa Nobry.

You know what's really great is roast pork loins, because they're very small and you can marinate them and roast them. Really simply serve them with like a potato and apple and fennel puree and some shaved brussels sprouts. It'd be a great holiday meal. And it's not like cooking a Whole ham.

I have a very important question to ask. When did Brussels sprouts go from being as in my childhood disgusting, I happen to know, into my adulthood? It's like, I can't wait to get more Brussels sprouts. What happened?

What happened was, and I actually started this at the store in the 80s, I started roasting brussels sprouts instead of boiling them. And they were so good because they're like crispy and you know, they're more like french fries. They're fantastic. So then I started thought, well, if you can roast Brussels sprouts, maybe you can roast butternut squash. So we started roasting butternut squash and string beans. And I mean, we roasted everything. And the best part is it's the easiest thing in the world. You put whatever vegetable it is on a sheet pan, olive oil, salt and pepper, and into the oven.

So on asparagus too, you're pro roasting rather than steaming or boiling.

100%. I think it brings out the flavor, it caramelizes the sugars in it and it's much more delicious.

Perfect. Now, this is not exactly a food question. How many scarves do you own? You always have one on Sue Palmer a lot.

I have drawers and drawers of scarves. She's absolutely right. I have them everywhere. I just love having a scarf around my neck. I just think it feels good. David, I was just thinking to myself, can we just do this again tomorrow?

We can do it all now.

It's so much fun. Thank you.

Ina Garten. Thank you so much.

So much fun to talk to you as always, David.

[Listener Support]

Thank you.

[Ina Garten]

I spoke with ina Garten in 2022. Her recent book is a memoir called Be Ready when the Luck Happens. Be My Guest with Ina Garten on the Food Network is in its fifth season. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. More to come.

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[Alex Barish]

I'm erin Moriarty of 48 Hours, and of all the cases I've covered, this is the one that troubles me most. A bizarre and maddening tale involving an eyewitness account that doesn't quite make sense, a sister testifying against a brother, a lack of physical evidence. Crosley Greene has lived more than half his life behind bars for a crime he says he didn't commit. Listen to Murder in the Orange Grove. The Troubled Case Against Crosley Greene. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ina Garten]

I'm David Remnick, and this is the New Yorker Radio Hour. The movie Baby Girl opened on Christmas Day. A pretty bold choice, because elf this is not. It's a movie about an affair between a CEO played by Nicole Kidman and a much younger man at a company. And it's steamy. That might be the euphemism of choice. And the New Yorker's Alex Barish just profiled the director of Baby Girl, Elena Raine, and he spent some time educating himself, as one must in the great tradition of erotic thrillers. Welcome, Alex.

[Listener Support]

Thank you, David.

[Ina Garten]

Now, Alex, what made you want to talk to Alina Rayne.

[Listener Support]

Well, I'd actually read about Baby Girl when it was just entering production and the premise sort of grabbed me immediately. I feel like there's been all of this conversation in recent years about, you know, the state of sex on screen, concerns about power differentials and the workplace and age gap relationships. And here was someone who was sort of throwing herself directly onto the third rail of all of that. Right.

[Ina Garten]

And what's the basic premise, beyond the age differences?

[Listener Support]

The basic premise is that Nicole Kidman is playing this CEO of a robotics company. This woman called Romy and Samuel, played by Harris Dickinson, a young British actor, is an intern at the company. And they have looks to kill. Looks to kill.

[Ina Garten]

Right. So it's an affair between the CEO and an intern.

[Listener Support]

Yes, that's right. It is the most extreme.

[Ina Garten]

HR departments everywhere, the HR department nightmare.

[Listener Support]

Yes.

[Ina Garten]

Oh my God.

I wanted to automate repetitive tasks and.

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[Listener Support]

And, you know, the idea is that she is in this happy marriage, but she has these desires that she dares not even name to her husband. And this young man proves to be the outlet for that. And initially there's the kind of flirtation in the office and they're easing into it and then he sort of tempts her into this kinky affair.

[Ina Garten]

Possibly the most famous cinematic orgasm of the last five years.

[Listener Support]

Oh, yes. It is a three minute long close up on Nicole Kidman's face.

[Ina Garten]

It's three minutes.

[Listener Support]

It's pretty remarkable. They take their time.

[Ina Garten]

Congratulations.

[Listener Support]

Yes, that scene is very intense and deliberately so. It was actually the last day of shooting. They saved it for the end and when I talked to Halyna, she wanted to wait until everyone trusted each other. They knew what they were about. The scene itself is kind of funny and awkward. Deliberately they're defining this dynamic. They're figuring out what the other the person likes. They're testing these boundaries and then something clicks and the take is unflinching. It is three minutes long and originally she wanted it to be even longer. She had hoped for an 18 minute orgasm scene. Although she was quickly called back to reality.

[Ina Garten]

Nicole Kidman's expected to get an Oscar nomination for Baby Girl. Am I right? How unusual is it for an erotic thriller to get an award? Big, you know, an Oscar or very.

[Listener Support]

I mean, you know, Glenn Close was nominated for Fatal Attraction back in the Day, but she didn't win, and that was sort of at the of the genre's power and popularity. So. But as you said, this role really is a showcase for Nicole Kidman's range, and she won best Actress at the Venice Film Festival. She has some momentum behind her, so we'll see if voters are ready for it Now.

[Ina Garten]

Now, what makes an erotic thriller as opposed to a movie that just has a sex scene or two?

[Listener Support]

I mean, if you look at the ones that came out in the 80s 90s, early 2000s, I feel like the hallmarks are these very baroque over the top plots, mostly to justify the sex and also the idea that the danger and the sex are inextricable from each other. You, erotic and the thriller have to go hand in hand. The point is that that's why it's exciting until it decidedly is not.

[Ina Garten]

It's anything but domestic sex.

[Listener Support]

Yes, exactly. I mean, Michael Douglas, who had the kind of erotic thriller hat trick of Disclosure, Fatal Attraction and Basic Instinct, he was the man for the job. They decided, and he said at the time that the ideal audience reaction is, I laughed, I got turned on by the sex scenes, and I got scared.

[Ina Garten]

All right, so in the Pick 3 sweepstakes, your contemporary pick is Baby Girl for Erotic thrill is. What's your next pick?

[Listener Support]

Basic Instinct. We have to go there. It's sort of the apex of the genre. It was released in 1992. It's directed by Paul Verhoeven, who's really the master at this, and he has Sharon Stone and Michael Douglas. So great cast. She plays a novelist whose boyfriend is stabbed to death with an ice pick in circumstances that are very similar to a novel she herself has written. And he's the detective on the case who wisely decides to fall in love with it.

[Ina Garten]

And it was the leg crossing that launched a thousand ships.

[Listener Support]

Indeed. Yes. Very polarizing for a reason.

[Ina Garten]

You like playing games, don't you? I have a degree in psychology. It goes with the turf. Games are fun.

You think it's a good movie?

[Listener Support]

I think it's a great movie. I think it holds up. It is. It is absurd. It is over the top, but it knows what it's doing. I think it's playing with the tropes.

[Ina Garten]

In a fun way with you there. Now your third pick is one of controversy. What is it?

[Listener Support]

Eyes Wide Shut, the Stanley Kubrick film.

[Ina Garten]

Right.

[Listener Support]

Starring Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman. Once again back in the erotic thriller in space.

[Ina Garten]

Now for those unlucky enough not to have seen eyes wide shut, 25 years ago. What was it about? It's about a lot.

[Listener Support]

It is about a lot. And, you know, I think audiences at the time didn't quite know what to do with it because it was marketed as a conventional erotic thriller. And it will not shock you to learn that Stanley Kubrick's take on this genre is a little more esoteric. But Tom Cruise is playing this Dr. Bill Hereford whose wife, Nicole Kidman, confesses to fantasies about another man. And he spirals as a result of this information, I think it's fair to say. And a friend of his tells him about a secret party. He sneaks in and finds out that it's an OG with dangerous consequences for those involved.

[Ina Garten]

May I have the password, please? Fidelio. That's right, sir. That is the password for admittance. But may I ask, what is the.

Password for the house? For the record, you and our esteemed colleague Richard Brody are aligned on this film.

[Listener Support]

It's a rare occurrence, and I think it means something.

[Ina Garten]

What does it mean, do you suppose?

[Listener Support]

You know, if two divergent critical sensibilities can find something to admire in this film then maybe it should be vindicated by history.

[Ina Garten]

Nicole Kidman starred in icy wide shut 25 years ago. And now here she is in Baby Girl. What keeps bringing her to these films?

[Listener Support]

I mean, Nicole Kidman is a very prolific actress and.

[Ina Garten]

Did you ask her about this?

[Listener Support]

I did, yes.

[Ina Garten]

What'd she say?

[Listener Support]

She said that Ryan had given her something that no one's given me. And I don't know that it's the genre itself. I think in this case, it was Helena. You know, she's obsessed with Adrienne Lyne. She's obsessed with Paul Verhoeven. You know, she was in a Verhoeven film herself. She has an idea of what it takes to be in these roles. But she also realized that those films had a lot of sexism in them. And there were these problems. And she wanted something that played with all of those tropes but was also true in its depiction of sexuality and a little more aware of the roles and responsibilities and the archetypes that women are expected to fulfill. It's taking this stuff and it's twisting it and making it a little more modern.

[Ina Garten]

So with all the attention that's being given to Baby Girl are we in for a renaissance, God willing, of erotic thrillers?

[Listener Support]

I hope so. I mean, I think, you know, we.

[Ina Garten]

Those.

[Listener Support]

Those movies were ridiculous at times. You know, often.

[Ina Garten]

No, no.

[Listener Support]

But they also, in their willingness to really go for broke. I think they had the chance to show us something fun and something real. And it'd be nice if people took a few more risks in their filmmaking.

[Ina Garten]

Alex, thanks a lot.

[Listener Support]

Thanks David.

[Ina Garten]

Alex Barish is an editor for the New Yorker, and Baby Girl, starring Nicole Kidman just opened. You can find Alex's profile of the director helena [e-mail] I'm David Remnick. That's our program for today. Hope you had a great holiday. We'll see you in the new year, whatever that may bring.

[David Remnick]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Louis Mitchell. This episode was produced by Max Balton, Adam Howard, David Krasnow, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell, Jared Paul and Ursula Sommer, with guidance from Emily Bottin and assistance from Michael May, David Gable, Alex Parish, Victor Guan and Alejandra Deckett. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Tsarina Endowment Fund.

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