The Country Singer Margo Price Talks with Emily Nussbaum

Summary

Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: The Country Singer Margo Price Talks with Emily Nussbaum
Date: April 11, 2023
Host: WNYC Studios and The New Yorker (David Remnick)
Guest Interviewer: Emily Nussbaum
Guest: Margo Price

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Main Theme

This episode centers on an in-depth conversation between New Yorker critic Emily Nussbaum and acclaimed country musician Margo Price. Their discussion weaves through Price’s reaction to a recent tragedy in Nashville, her creative process for her new album Strays, reflections on the music industry, personal transformation, and the vulnerability shared in her memoir Maybe We'll Make It. The episode is a candid exploration of grief, artistic struggle, Nashville’s changing landscape, and the power of honest storytelling.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Responding to Tragedy in Nashville

• Opening Context: The episode begins on a somber note, referencing the recent mass shooting at Covenant School in Nashville.
• Margo’s Vigil Performance ([01:26]):
  • Price had performed Bob Dylan's "Tears of Rage" “acapella” at the Nashville Remembers vigil earlier that day.
  • She shares her personal connection to the tragedy, recalling, "My children were actually at their first day of school over at a different school near the Covenant School. They were just up the street. And I got the call that there had been a school shooting in Green Hills, and I just fell to my knees."
  • The song choice was influenced by her own experience losing a child and was sung at her son’s wake ([01:47]).
• Discusses the difficulty of selecting a song that is "uplifting" but not "too political" for such an occasion.

2. Speaking Out: Politics and Music in Nashville

• On Challenging the Status Quo ([03:10]):
  • Price reflects on the cultural taboo against musicians addressing political issues in country music:
    "I am a gun owner...But there's gotta be something that changes...No one is saying we're going to take away all the guns ... But there absolutely, something has to change." ([03:36])
  • She points out political realities around gun laws and the influence of the NRA in Tennessee.

3. Exploring the New Album Strays

• Song Genesis: "Radio" ([04:47]):
  • The song emerged in frustration at her record label:
    "I was very frustrated, honestly, at my ... at my label, and I wrote that song, and it just came out like lightning." ([05:07])
  • Collaboration with Sharon Van Etten enhanced the track. Sharon’s subtle changes “had a lot of weight and meaning.” ([05:49])
  • Price describes writing songs as sometimes a matter of necessity.
• On Artistic Struggle:
  • “My first album...was about the struggle. And so I like the struggle. I think if everything were just to come easy for me, then I wouldn’t be Margo Price.” ([06:51])

4. The Nashville Songwriting Machine

• Attitude Toward Co-Writing ([07:54]):
  • Criticizes the prevalence of “a million co-writers for every song” in Nashville.
  • Emphasizes authenticity and personal connection:
    "I can't do it if I don't like someone's art. I just can't work with them." ([08:52])

5. Psychedelics, Sobriety, and Transformation

• Creative Revelations ([09:14]):
  • Three standout songs—"Been to the Mountain," "Change of Heart," and "Light Me Up"—were written after a psychedelic trip with her husband.
  • “We went to this Airbnb, and we took a very large dose of psilocybin and went through all the feelings. ... the songs ... had ... a mystical quality to them.” ([09:14])
• On Giving Up Drinking ([11:36]):
  • A psychedelic experience helped her understand and overcome alcohol addiction.
  • “When you’re drinking, it shuts down your prefrontal cortex ... Once I learned about the science ... it was actually very easy to quit. And I have never felt better. ... I feel like I’m finally healing.” ([11:36])
  • Distinguishes between transformative use of psychedelics and habitual drinking.

6. Reflections on Nashville and Loss

• "County Road" as a Tribute ([12:47]):
  • The song was written for late friend Ben Eystone, envisioning him “up in heaven...with a set of wheels.” ([13:09])
  • The city’s rapid gentrification and loss of community are mourned:
    "This song is kind of like a love letter to that time." ([13:57])

7. Writing Her Memoir: Fear and Self-Acceptance

• Vulnerability in Publishing ([14:58]):
  • After submitting the final draft, Price experienced intense doubt and anxiety:
    “I felt like I just made a terrible mistake...I was convinced that they were going to disown me.” ([15:09])
    • Husband Jeremy advised, “You belong to no one. ... Just say what you need to say and speak your truth.” ([15:36])
  • Approaching 40, she is learning to show self-compassion and let go of harsh self-judgment:
    "I just want to be excited to be alive and ... proud to age ... not being so hard on myself, because I already have enough people judging me out there." ([16:49])

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Gun Reform:
  “No one is saying we're going to take away all the guns ... But there absolutely, something has to change. I don't see how people can just go on living like this.” – Margo Price ([03:36])

• On Collaboration:
  “I can't do it if I don't like someone's art. I just can't work with them.” – Margo Price ([08:52])

• On Healing and Sobriety:
  “Once I learned about the science behind what alcohol was doing to my brain, it was actually very easy to quit. And I have never felt better. It's like a second chance at life.” – Margo Price ([11:36])

• On Creative Process and Struggle:
  “I like the struggle. I think if everything were just to come easy for me, then I wouldn't be Margo Price.” – Margo Price ([06:51])

• On Vulnerability:
  “I just want to be excited to be alive and I want to be ... proud to age ... not being so hard on myself, because I already have enough people judging me out there.” – Margo Price ([16:49])

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:30 – Introduction to Margo Price’s career and Nashville roots
• 01:26 – Margo discusses her performance at the Nashville vigil
• 03:10 – Discussion on politics and music on Music Row
• 04:47 – Story behind the song “Radio” and label frustrations
• 07:54 – Critique of Nashville’s co-writing culture
• 09:14 – Writing key songs under the influence of psychedelics
• 11:36 – Margo on psychedelics vs. alcohol, and her sobriety revelation
• 13:09 – “County Road” as a love letter to old Nashville and a lost friend
• 14:58 – The agony and purpose of writing her memoir, vulnerability, and self-acceptance

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Tone

The episode is intimate, direct, and equally soulful and pragmatic—very much in the spirit of Margo Price's music and Emily Nussbaum's interviewing style. Their exchange balances grief and gratitude, creative grit and personal healing, offering listeners both stark honesty and hope.

Transcript

[Host]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of WNYC studios and the New Yorker.

[Narrator]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick.

[Margo Price (singing parts)]

Let's go back, Tennessee, you and me let's go back Tennessee let's go back.

[Narrator]

Margot Price moved to Nashville from Illinois at the age of 19. After struggling to make it for years, she broke through in 2016 with the album Midwest Farmer's Daughter.

[Margo Price (singing parts)]

Get off your chest what's on your mind.

[Narrator]

It's a raw, kind of rootsy album that established Price as an artist to watch. She works somewhere in the lineage of the outlaw country artists of the 1970s. Price recently put out a new album called Strays with her husband and her collaborator Jeremy Ivey. She's also published a memoir called maybe We'll Make It. Price spoke about a week ago with the New Yorker's Emily Nussbaum, best known as a television critic but also a big fan of country music. There'd been emails back and forth to set up the interview, but on the day that Emily and Margot finally sat down to talk, Margot had just been at a vigilante for the victims of a mass shooting in Nashville.

[Host]

I want to start with what's been going on this week. This has been a terrible week for the city with the tragic shooting at the Covenant School. And I know that this morning you sang Bob Dylan's Tears of Acapella at the Nashville Remembers vigil. And I wondered why that song. And can you tell me a little bit about the occasion?

[Margo Price (speaking parts)]

Yes. My children were actually at their first day of school over at a different school near the Covenant School. They were just up the street. And I got the call that there had been a school shooting in Green Hills, and I just fell to my knees. And, you know, as you know, I have lost a child and albeit under very different circumstances, but my heart just really was aching for those parents who lost their nine year olds and for the seven children who lost their father, who was 61 and the custodian of the school. But that song, it was really hard to know what song is appropriate. And they said, you know, we want something uplifting and, you know, we don't want it to be too political. And so I did kind of have some instructions. You know, I think people were maybe scared of what was going to come out of my mouth. But that song, tears of Rage, was a song that a friend of mine sang at our son's wake. Just being able to get through that without breaking down was a real challenge. Tears of rage, Tears of grief why.

[Margo Price (singing parts)]

Must I always be the thief?

[Host]

It was beautiful. It's interesting that they. I didn't want you to sing something political. I know there's a taboo in town and on Music Row about artists speaking out about politics. And where does that come from? And has it stayed the same? Because it's a striking moment in terms of whether people are gonna speak out about guns. I don't know what your perspective on this is.

[Margo Price (speaking parts)]

I think even when you look back to the 60s and 70s and when John Lennon was, you know, marching against the war, I think people, you know, still probably were telling him to shut up and sing. And one thing that I've really been kind of trying to stress is that I am a gun owner. I have grown up with guns. My father was a hunter. I grew up shooting clay pigeons. I've had a shotgun. I've. I've traveled alone. I've worried about my own protection at times. But we just. There's gotta be something that changes. And we know that, you know, Marsha Blackburn has taken 1.25 million from the NRA. We know that Governor Bill Lee stood and signed a permitless carry back in 2021. And there's just no need for that. No one is saying we're going to take away all the guns and that you can't be a gun owner and you can't go hunting or something. But there absolutely, something has to change. I don't see how people can just go on living like this.

[Host]

Let's talk about the album, and thank you for that.

[Margo Price (speaking parts)]

I'm grateful that we did get to touch on that because it has been heavy on my heart.

[Host]

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about the album. I love Radio, which is a groove about kind of shutting off the world and turning off your phone, turning off the news and taking off your clothes and isolation in general. Tell me a little bit about that song and about your collaboration on that song with Sharon Van Eden.

[Margo Price (speaking parts)]

Oh, my goodness. I was very frustrated, honestly, at my. At my label, and so I was angry at them, and I. And I wrote that song, and it just came out like lightning. It was just one of those songs. I was just walking in the woods I heard the melody, I got my phone out, I made a little demo. Singing through the woods like a crazy person.

[Margo Price (singing parts)]

People try to push me around Change my face and change my sound I can hear and I tune down, I turn down we never know the only thing I have on is the rating.

[Margo Price (speaking parts)]

And then I got home and I sat down with the guitar. And I was like, okay, it's an E. And I just very crudely strummed it out. And then I sent it to Sharon. I said, do you think it needs a bridge? Do you like this? And she's like, man, that's a killer song. And so she helped me change some of the lines. Some very crucial moments in there. And then which lines? Just layered it with a million hearts. Harmony's. Oh, the one that she added is, let's see, I'm saving all my extra money. It used to be, go out somewhere, they'll never find me. But she said, go out, get what they never buy me. And I was like, perfect. It's just very subtle. A couple things that were super subtle that just had a lot of weight and meaning in them.

[Host]

What were you mad at your label about when you were driven to write.

[Margo Price (speaking parts)]

That I might have to plead the fifth.

[Host]

Okay, because I was wondering. Because you have a lot of songs that are payback songs on several of your albums in clear ways. But I hadn't read radio that way. Like, radio felt like maybe it was about the Internet or about, you know.

[Margo Price (speaking parts)]

It'S about that, too. I was mad at everybody, but it was definitely something that kind of went down and people, you know, maybe trying to steer the ship a little too much and. But that's good. I really. Sometimes you just write a song because you need to write a song, but sometimes you write a song out of a necessity of, like, needing to say something very specific. And, you know, my first album, Midwest Farmer's Daughter, that whole album was about the struggle. And so I like the struggle. I think if everything were just to come easy for me, then I wouldn't be Margo Price.

[Host]

You'd said in a profile that I read that you'd sort of scammed the record company a little bit by saying that you were collaborating with one of Taylor Swift's. And I wanted to ask about that. But I also wanted to ask, do you think that there's too much emphasis in Nashville on co writing? Because there are these super sized albums that come out where it's like a million co writers for every song. And I just wondered what you thought about that as a tendency.

[Margo Price (speaking parts)]

I think that the amount of songwriters that some people have on just one song is absolutely ridiculous. And I get having points, and my band is very instrumental in coming up with the arrangements, coming up with 10 tempos, really transforming a song. But when you're actually just talking about the meat and potatoes of writing a song, I think I don't know, too many cooks in the kitchen can maybe be a little bit too much. You know, my husband and I, we've been writing together a really long time, so it's like he can write things from my point of view. He can get into my head in a way that not other people could. You know, they were pushing me to co write with the. I don't know, some guy who'd written with Harry Styles. And I was like, well, that's. That's like, totally fine. But, like, I'm not writing the same kind of songs that Harry Styles is writing right now. And I don't want to just work with somebody just because they're famous. I've turned down working, collaborating with a lot of people that probably I'd have a hell of a lot more Spotify listeners, but I just. I can't do it if I don't like someone's art. I just can't work with them. And it's. That's just how I am. I can't help it.

[Host]

Three of the most towering songs on Strays, Been to the Mountain, Change of Heart, and Light Me up, were all written on the same day. So can you tell me about that day?

[Margo Price (speaking parts)]

Absolutely. My husband and I, we took off on a little trip together, a literal trip. We brought a bunch of mushrooms. We went to this Airbnb, and we took a very large dose of psilocybin and went through all the feelings. We kind of talked about where musically we should go next. And the next day, we woke up, got some coffee, and we began writing. And it was just a really, really incredible week. And the songs, they did have, like, a mystical quality to them. When they came into our lives and we were like, all right, we're onto something good. We're onto something different.

[Margo Price (singing parts)]

I got nothing to prove I got nothing to. I'm not buying what you got I ain't ringing no bell I got a myth in my pocket Got a bullet in my teeth I'm going straight in the fire I'm gonna talk to the.

[Host]

High priest yeah, I love Been to the Mountain. I think that's such an amazing song, and that is kind of a mystical anthem that doubles as a life story. Who do you think of as narrating this song? Is it you? Is it a version of you? Like, how do you think of the narrator of a song like that?

[Margo Price (speaking parts)]

There are definitely pieces of me in it, but I was trying to think a little bit more on, like, a. Just a broader level of how we are all interconnected. I know it sounds very woo woo. But, you know, I think we all come through this life many times, and you think about all the people you've been, and when you have a psychedelic experience, every one of them is different, and everybody's experience is going to be different. I want to say that I'm definitely not advocating for anybody to do anything, you know, but during my experiences, I've just been able to go inside and things that I've buried, things that I've pushed down, things that I've numbed out, those things can come out.

[Host]

You know, it's interesting because obviously psychedelics are a huge part of this album. And I know that a psychedelic trip led you to stop drinking. If I understand. First of all, tell me about how that happened, like in terms of what kind of insights you gained from the trip that caused you to want to give up drinking, which had been a huge part of your life. And the difference you see between drugs and drinking, because a lot of people put them in the same category.

[Margo Price (speaking parts)]

Absolutely. I think I've done every drug under the sun, and I have no shame about it. I have experimented with quite many substances, and nobody is going to want to be on mushrooms every day. It's something that is just. You do it and then you don't need to do it for a very long time, if even ever again. When you're drinking, it shuts down your prefrontal cortex, and then you're relying on your animal brain. Once I learned about the science behind what alcohol was doing to my brain, it was actually very easy to quit. And I have never felt better. It's like a second chance at life. I know that sounds very cliche maybe, but I feel like I'm finally healing. A lot of things that I've just been pushing down and numbing out because they were too painful to process at the time.

[Margo Price (singing parts)]

Hey, kid, where you going? With those brand new wheels you got? You think you're gonna lasts forever Forever.

[Host]

Says unite County Road on the album feels to me like a real local Nashville song. It has references to developers pouring in. You say the band broke up, the boys don't talk, the city's rearranged. And I was wondering if you could tell me a little bit about the song, who it sung to, and also a little bit about how Nashville has changed during the time that you've been there.

[Margo Price (speaking parts)]

Well, Jeremy and I wrote County Road for our friend Ben Eystone, who was a drummer in the band the Lonely Age, and he died of cancer. Ben never had a car, but when we would leave town. He would drive my bass player's car around, and people would say, oh, we saw Ben in your Volvo, you know, and so we thought, maybe he's up in heaven now. And he finally got a set of wheels, and we could just kind of see him driving. And so the song was about how he got out before everything got bad. He got out before the pandemic hit, before the tornado, before it was like, you know, 2020. Everything just kind of came to a screeching halt. And obviously, the. The gentrification and the. The way people are making everything into corporate businesses and condos and, you know, ripping down the local record stores and a lot of the places that we loved. This song is kind of like a love letter to that time.

[Narrator]

Margo Price talking with Emily Nussbaum of the New Yorker. More in a moment.

[Host]

Let's talk a little bit about the book. I know that at the end of writing it, you almost scrapped it. Is that right? And I wondered what was going on. What were you thinking about at that point? And also what were your motivations for writing it? I think you wrote it somewhat simultaneously with the album, right? Are they both. Did they overlap?

[Margo Price (speaking parts)]

Yeah, I had. I don't have panic attacks a lot. I get more. I get depressed. I get some anxiety here and there. But after I send off the final draft, I felt like I couldn't breathe. I felt like I just made a terrible mistake. And I sat outside with Jeremy, and he was sitting by the fire, and I just said, I am worried that I burned all my bridges and I'm never going to find my way home again. I just. I was convinced that they were going to disown me. And he just looked at me and he said, you belong to no one. He's like, you don't even belong to me. He's like, we're only here for such a short moment in time. Just say what you need to say and speak your truth. And as I'm approaching my 40th birthday in just a couple weeks, I've been doing a lot of reflecting over the past year, past two years, just thinking about how hard I've been on myself, how I have just been my own worst critic. And I've just spent so much time, you know, dwelling over things that I can't change or just thinking I'm not good enough because I'm not pretty enough or I'm not successful enough or, you know, like, my career's not where it should be after all this time. And I think being able to read back my words and my memoir. I was really able to give myself a lot of compassion and just let go a lot of that. I just don't want to feel those things in these next few decades. I just. I just want to be excited to be alive and I want to be. I want to be proud to age. I want to be just not being so hard on myself because I already have enough people judging me out there. I don't need.

[Host]

Well, thank you so much. It was great talking to you.

[Margo Price (speaking parts)]

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

[Margo Price (singing parts)]

Let me be alone today.

[Narrator]

Margo Price's new album is called Strays and her memoir of trying to make it in country music is called maybe We'll Make It. You can read Emily [e-mail] thanks for listening today. Hope you'll join us next time.

[Producer/Announcer]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbez of Tune Yards, with additional music by Louis Mitchell. This episode was produced by Max Balton, Breda Green, Adam Howard, Kalalea, Avery Keatley, David Krasnow, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell and Gofen Mputibwele, with guidance from Emily Botin and assistance from Harrison Keithline, Michael May, David Gable and Meher Bhatia. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Cherina Endowment Fund.