Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour
Episode: "The Green New Deal, and an Unusual Night at the Orchestra"
Date: April 23, 2019
Host: David Remnick
Produced by: WNYC Studios and The New Yorker
Overview
This episode unpacks the rising movement for the Green New Deal, diving into how energized youth activism, political realities, and labor politics are shaping the climate crisis conversation. It features in-depth interviews with Varshini Prakash, co-founder of the Sunrise Movement; commentary from Carol Browner, former EPA head and Obama’s climate czar; and insight from New Yorker staff writers Eliza Griswold and John Cassidy. The episode wraps with a charming, lighthearted segment where writer Patricia Marks tries her hand at conducting an orchestra, exploring the gap between the fantasy and reality of one of music’s most iconic roles.
Segment 1: The Green New Deal and Youth Activism
Young Activists in Action
Discussion starts: [00:09]
- David Remnick introduces a viral moment where young Sunrise Movement activists confronted Senator Dianne Feinstein about the Green New Deal, exemplifying a generational shift in climate advocacy.
- The Sunrise Movement frames climate change in personal, urgent terms, focusing less on distant ecological impacts and more on the immediate stakes for their own generation.
The Role of Sunrise Movement
Eliza Griswold: [01:10]
- Notes that although the Green New Deal had been circulating for years, youth action notably brought new momentum.
- Shares first-hand reporting from the midterms, particularly in Pennsylvania, observing the “number of doors they knocked was incredibly inspiring.” [01:26]
Segment 2: Eliza Griswold Interviews Varshini Prakash
Climate Justice and Coalition-Building
Varshini Prakash: [02:05]
- Explains that earlier climate policies focused narrowly on the environment, failing to build winning coalitions.
- The Green New Deal links climate action with “jobs, the economy, and healthcare”—basic interests relevant to everyone.
- Proposes a 10-year economic mobilization to overhaul the economy, guarantee jobs, and phase out fossil fuels.
“Everyone cares about access to clean air and clean water. Everybody cares about having access to a good high paying job and being able to support their family.” – Varshini Prakash [02:17]
Political Strategy and Challenges
On Getting the Green New Deal Through Congress:
[03:33]
- Political reality demands first electing pro-climate majorities and replacing Trump.
- Movement-building beyond electoral politics is crucial, reminiscent of FDR’s “bold experimentation” approach in the original New Deal era.
“We need to embrace this experimentation...and do whatever it takes to really pass the policies that are gonna prevent us from going over this tipping point.” – Varshini Prakash [04:27]
On Technological Criticism:
[05:32]
- Admits uncertainty about full decarbonization in a decade but emphasizes striving for ambitious goals in the face of an existential crisis.
“I don't know if we can completely decarbonize our economy in the next 10 years...But we have done incredible things in this nation's history before.” – Varshini Prakash [05:38]
Labor and the Green New Deal
AFL-CIO Opposition:
[06:32]
- Navigating union resistance is critical; many union workers are already harmed by climate disasters.
- Advocates for a “just transition,” ensuring the benefits include workers and vulnerable communities.
“Many of these unions actually represent working families...that are already experiencing the impacts of climate change....We need to actually have communication...at the grassroots as well, to bring the majority of folks along.” – Varshini Prakash [07:09]
Intra-Party Dynamics and Political Opposition
On Primarying Unsupportive Democrats:
[08:07]
“Yeah, we will, definitely.” – Varshini Prakash
On Republican Attacks and Public Opinion:
[08:23]
- Despite Republican mockery, the Green New Deal is gaining popularity, even among some conservative voters due to its economic elements.
“The Green New Deal has absolutely skyrocketed into the public conversation...What used to be a relatively niche policy priority is now becoming the number one most popular policy amongst Democratic 2020 caucus goers, and majorities of Republicans, even conservative Republicans...” – Varshini Prakash [08:27]
Addressing Culture-War Soundbites (e.g., “hamburgers”):
[09:32]
- Prakash acknowledges not everyone can be persuaded, but sees hope in reaching working communities, especially in rural America, by focusing on common-ground policies.
Segment 3: Policy, Politics, and History—Carol Browner with John Cassidy
Obama-Era Environmental Efforts
Carol Browner: [11:42]
- Outlines the regulatory gains under President Obama—using the Clean Air Act for vehicle and power-plant standards, pushing for cap-and-trade (Waxman-Markey), and pursuing international climate agreements.
- Credits the Green New Deal for “another big step forward in terms of its aspirations, in terms of its ambitions.” [12:46]
Contrasts with Green New Deal
[13:24]
- "One size fits all...was probably not going to get us what we needed.” Instead, Obama-era efforts targeted sector-specific policies.
- Green New Deal pushes for bolder, more comprehensive ambitions.
Building Blocks and Realities of Change
Incremental Progress:
“The way environmental regulations work is they're building blocks...you make these building blocks that get you where you want to go.” – Carol Browner [14:20]
On Cost and Innovation:
[15:15]
- Skeptical of dire cost predictions, pointing to history where regulatory action spurred American innovation, often outpacing expectations.
“Virtually every single major regulation...has been met for far less money than was originally thought because we're good at finding solutions.” – Carol Browner [15:26]
Coalition-Building and Political Hurdles
[16:23]
- Grassroots campaigns are necessary, but so is engagement with industry—powerful stakeholders in Congress.
- Shareholder and investor pressure is already pushing fossil fuel companies, citing $9 trillion in assets represented by investors backing climate action at Exxon. [17:36]
- Change requires appealing to diverse interests: “I don’t really care why you vote the way you do. I just care that you vote the right way.” – Carol Browner [18:59]
On Optimism:
“I am optimistic in part because I just don’t believe...that my generation is going to give to my grandchildren a problem they can’t solve.” – Carol Browner [19:22]
Segment 4: Patricia Marks Conducts an Orchestra
Begins: [20:57]
A tonal shift brings comic levity as Patricia Marks fulfills her fantasy of conducting the Orchestra of St. Luke’s.
Becoming a Conductor
-
With little preparation or experience, Marks is granted the chance to conduct (with comical anxiety), asking conductor Bernard Labadie about the art's secrets.
-
Learning that, “I’m dancing ahead of the orchestra,” Labadie explains that effective conducting is less about precise gestures and more about communication and musical intention. [23:42]
-
Patricia’s self-deprecating commentary is a highlight:
- “I thought what Bernard said was very reassuring...it really doesn’t matter what you do, as long as you do it extremely, even if it’s offensive.” [24:21]
- After an accidental tempo change:
“That's good, right?”
Bernard Labadie: “Not necessarily. I think it’s supposed to be in the same tempo.” [27:51]
Memorable Antics
- At Labadie’s urging, she experiments with tempo (and humor), eventually breaking into playful gestures—yoga, pointing, glissading, and jokingly “swatting flies.”
- On her performance:
“If there's another baton accident, call me Patty Marks.” [28:35]
Musician Feedback
After her attempt, Marks queries the musicians about her performance. The review:
“There were moments that you did really well, and then there were moments that you had too much fun....shows improvement. Keep your day job.” [32:19]
Notable Quotes by Segment
Varshini Prakash
- “We don't have a choice but to strive. And I think in striving, we can open up all sorts of political opportunities and perhaps technological opportunities than we could have ever before.” [05:55]
- “I will say. I don't think you can reach everybody. I think the key is...to go out and talk to these people on the ground.” [09:32]
Carol Browner
- “You have to set a floor. Not ever be as much as we all hope for, but it will be a step. And then we have to argue for more.” [17:58]
- “I give the new members of Congress a lot of credit for raising their voices.” [19:55]
Patricia Marks
- “But dare I say I've impressed myself. If there's another baton accident, call me Patty Marks.” [28:35]
Key Timestamps
- [00:09] — Introduction: Sunrise Movement confronts Sen. Feinstein
- [01:50] — Climate Justice and the Green New Deal
- [02:05] — Varshini Prakash on broadening the movement
- [03:33] — Political strategy for passing Green New Deal
- [05:32] — Addressing technological feasibility
- [06:32] — Labor’s concerns and the Green New Deal
- [08:07] — On primarying Democrats
- [08:23] — Republican opposition and public opinion
- [11:42] — Obama Administration’s environmental efforts (Carol Browner)
- [13:24] — Green New Deal’s difference from past policies
- [15:15] — Cost and innovation in regulation
- [16:23] — Coalition building and industry’s role
- [17:36] — Investors pressure on fossil fuel companies
- [19:22] — Browner’s optimism and broader response
- [20:57] — Patricia Marks conducts the orchestra
- [22:00] — Learning the conductor’s score
- [27:51] — Trouble with tempo
- [32:19] — Orchestra musician’s feedback
Tone and Style
- The climate segment is earnest, urgent, and policy-focused—driven by the convictions of a younger generation, tempered by experience and realism from veteran policymakers.
- Patricia Marks’ segment is playful and self-aware, balancing laughter and humility as she pokes fun at herself—and, by extension, at anyone who believes their hidden talents are easily realized.
For Listeners New to the Episode
- Why listen?
- Gain an inside view of the political, generational, and practical debates fueling the climate movement’s hottest proposal—the Green New Deal.
- Hear from its youth leaders and seasoned veterans on both its possibilities and pitfalls.
- End with a delightful, humorous lesson in just how hard it really is to be a world-class conductor, even if you can clap on time.