The Stakes for Abortion Rights, from the Head of Planned Parenthood

Summary

The New Yorker Radio Hour: "The Stakes for Abortion Rights, from the Head of Planned Parenthood"

Release Date: October 22, 2024
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Alexis McGill Johnson, President and CEO of Planned Parenthood

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Introduction

In this pivotal episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour, host David Remnick engages in a comprehensive dialogue with Alexis McGill Johnson, the President and CEO of Planned Parenthood. The conversation delves into the critical landscape of abortion rights in the wake of the Supreme Court's Dobbs decision, exploring the political, social, and human ramifications of this seismic shift in reproductive rights.

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The Current State of Abortion Rights

Impact of the Dobbs Decision

The Supreme Court's decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, which overturned Roe v. Wade, has significantly altered the abortion rights landscape in the United States. Alexis McGill Johnson underscores the profound voter response following this decision:

"More voters than ever before call abortion their most important issue, especially women under 30."
— Alexis McGill Johnson [01:36]

This shift has energized pro-choice advocates and reshaped electoral dynamics, making abortion a central issue in the current election cycle.

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Political Landscape and Election Strategies

Democratic Momentum

Despite predictions, Democrats have surpassed expectations in the 2022 midterms, with reproductive choice initiatives winning across various states, including traditionally conservative ones like Kansas. McGill Johnson highlights the strategic importance of Planned Parenthood's efforts in mobilizing voters:

"Planned Parenthood has always been about healthcare... politics got us into this situation. Abortion is not a partisan issue."
— Alexis McGill Johnson [07:14]

She emphasizes that reproductive rights transcend traditional party lines, uniting Democrats, Republicans, and independents around a common cause.

Republican Backpedaling and Defunding Plans

The Republican ticket, led by Donald Trump and J.D. Vance, has shown signs of wavering on their stance to defund Planned Parenthood. McGill Johnson critiques this stance as inconsistent and harmful:

"Defunding Planned Parenthood would mean taking away access to Medicaid reimbursements... it would be devastating."
— Alexis McGill Johnson [03:47]

She argues that such measures would strip away essential healthcare services for millions who rely on Planned Parenthood.

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Planned Parenthood's $40 Million Campaign

Allocation and Objectives

Planned Parenthood is channeling over $40 million into this election cycle through its Action Fund and Planned Parenthood Votes initiative. McGill Johnson outlines the purpose of this substantial investment:

"It's to communicate to the 19 million people who show up and take action every single week on behalf of Planned Parenthood... ensuring that a future President Harris also has a reproductive freedom majority."
— Alexis McGill Johnson [05:25]

The funds aim to bolster voter outreach, support pro-choice candidates, and advocate for federal legislation to restore and protect reproductive rights.

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Human Cost of Overturning Roe v. Wade

Devastating Consequences

The discussion takes a somber turn as McGill Johnson shares the human toll resulting from the Dobbs decision, highlighting tragic cases to illustrate the stakes involved:

"One was afraid to go to the hospital... the other went to the hospital and was essentially denied care until it was too late. It really puts into perspective how horrific these bans are."
— Alexis McGill Johnson [11:03]

These personal stories underscore the immediate and life-threatening consequences of restricted abortion access, emphasizing the urgent need for legislative action.

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The Role of Kamala Harris

Advocacy and Leadership

Vice President Kamala Harris has emerged as a vocal champion for reproductive rights. McGill Johnson praises Harris's proactive engagement and personal commitment:

"She is the one who took this on right after Dobbs. She is the first sitting vice president to come to a Planned Parenthood health center... she brings so much of her lived experience into the conversation."
— Alexis McGill Johnson [18:06]

Harris's efforts include traveling nationwide, engaging with state legislatures, and advocating for comprehensive healthcare and reproductive freedom legislation.

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Legislative Priorities Under a Democratic Administration

Path Forward with a Trifecta

McGill Johnson outlines the strategic goals if the Democrats secure control of both the presidency and Congress:

"Federal legislation to restore reproductive freedom... ensuring that if we elect Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, we can fight to get, you know, restore all of the protections for reproductive freedom."
— Alexis McGill Johnson [08:47]

Key objectives include enacting laws that protect abortion rights federally, thereby ensuring consistent access across all states and combating judicial challenges.

Partial Wins and Continued Advocacy

Even without a complete trifecta, McGill Johnson believes there are avenues for progress:

"There still is a lot that we can do... more protections to things like family planning, more protections to things like maternal mortality."
— Alexis McGill Johnson [09:48]

She emphasizes the importance of incremental victories and maintaining momentum to force critical conversations and legislative actions.

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Concerns About the New Trump Administration

Project 2025 and its Implications

McGill Johnson expresses deep concern over former President Trump's Project 2025, a comprehensive plan aimed at overturning reproductive rights and enforcing restrictive laws:

"They are likely to direct the DOJ to enforce the Comstock Law... effectively a nationwide abortion ban."
— Alexis McGill Johnson [22:14]

She warns of potential draconian measures, including surveillance and the criminalization of abortion-related healthcare, highlighting the severe threats posed by such policies.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with a stark reminder of the high stakes involved in the ongoing battle for abortion rights. Alexis McGill Johnson underscores the resilience and strategic efforts of Planned Parenthood in safeguarding reproductive freedoms, emphasizing the critical role of voter engagement and legislative advocacy in shaping the future of healthcare and women's rights in America.

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Notable Quotes:

• "More voters than ever before call abortion their most important issue, especially women under 30."
  — Alexis McGill Johnson [01:36]

• "Defunding Planned Parenthood would mean taking away access to Medicaid reimbursements... it would be devastating."
  — Alexis McGill Johnson [03:47]

• "Sch they believe we're still up in arms, that we are no longer equal in the eyes of the Constitution."
  — Alexis McGill Johnson [04:35]

• "This is the first presidential election since the Dobbs decision... the outrageous horror of what's happening to women across this country."
  — Alexis McGill Johnson [06:11]

• "Federal legislation to restore reproductive freedom is going to be paramount."
  — Alexis McGill Johnson [08:47]

• "We are very sober around the long term plan... we have to stay vigilant, state by state, living room by living room."
  — Alexis McGill Johnson [20:13]

---

This episode serves as a crucial examination of the ongoing struggle for reproductive rights in the United States, offering listeners an in-depth perspective on the strategies, challenges, and human impacts at the heart of this national issue.

Transcript

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[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Listener Supported WNYC Studios.

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[David Remnick]

Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Ever since the Supreme Court ended Roe versus Wade in the Dobbs decision, voters have been pushing back hard. Democrats outperformed expectations in the 2022 midterms and every ballot measure that's been up for a vote, even in the red state of Kansas, has gone for reproductive choice. More voters than ever before call abortion their most important issue, especially women under 30. If Kamala Harris prevails in the election, it will likely be on the strength of the pro choice vote. Donald Trump is frantically backpedaling from his success in overturning Roe, but he doesn't seem to be on the same page as his running mate, J.D. vance, who recently called for defunding Planned Parenthood. The president and CEO of Planned Parenthood is Alexis McGill Johnson, and the group is spending upwards of $40 million in this election to try to secure abortion rights once again. Just a few days ago, just a While back, Senator J.D. vance, the Vice presidential nominee for the Republicans, said this on the question of defunding Planned Parenthood, look, I mean, our view is we don't think that taxpayers should fund late term abortions that has been a consistent view of the Trump campaign the first time around, and it will remain a consistent view. What do you make of the Republican ticket rolling out this idea really late in the campaign while kind of hedging on what its own history is on this issue?

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Well, you know, the opposition has been trying to defund Planned Parenthood for a long time. That is just one of the tactics in their book. You know, I sit and I listen to the guy who is trying to shame childless cat ladies and, you know, curry more favor with the American public by saying, let's just take away healthcare from, you know, the millions of American who come to Planned Parenthood health centers every single day for STI testing and birth control and access to lifesaving breast cancer. Like, is that really your strategy?

[David Remnick]

What would that mean in dollar and cents terms? And what would it mean for the people that benefit from Planned Parenthood?

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

So defunding Planned Parenthood would mean taking away access to Medicaid reimbursements. It would mean trying to continue to find ways to make us spend money through litigation. All of that is impacting the 2 million patients that come to Planned Parenthood every single year. It would be devastating, of course.

[David Remnick]

You watched the vice presidential debate.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

I did.

[David Remnick]

So Vance said this about abortion. We've got to do so much better of a job at earning the American people's trust back on this issue where they, frankly, just don't trust us. That was a very, very weird thing to say.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

No, it is weird. I know, I know that's like the word of the election, but it is kind of weird.

[David Remnick]

Yeah. I mean, what's it masking?

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

I don't know. Some kind of surprise that they think we still actually care about our fundamental freedoms? You know, I think it's probably one of the number one questions I get often from journalists is, do you think that, you know, women still care about abortion this cycle? I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, they just took it away two years ago, and still, you know, we're watching the impact. So I think it is masking this just complete surprise that we are still up in arms, that we are no longer equal in the eyes of the Constitution.

[David Remnick]

You've been president, CEO of Planned Parenthood now for five years.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

For five years. I stepped in during a transition in 2019 as acting president, and I became permanent president the following year.

[David Remnick]

Now, a lot's changed since then, and it's been reported that Planned parenthood is spending $40 million on this election cycle.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Correct.

[David Remnick]

What's the $40 million for the $40.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Million that is being spent in the Action Fund and our Planned Parenthood votes work is to communicate to the 19 million people who show up and take action every single week on behalf of Planned Parenthood, on behalf of fighting for reproductive freedom. It's to focus on ensuring that, you know, not only do we see a Harris Walls in the White House, but that a future President Harris also has a reproductive freedom majority so that she can govern and that we can fight to get, you know, restore all of the protections for reproductive freedom.

[David Remnick]

What is the for Planned Parenthood? What's on the line this time around?

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

This is the first presidential election since the Dobbs decision.

[Advertisement Announcer]

Right.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

And you have seen since 22, every time reproductive freedom has been on the ballot, we have won. And that is because of the outrage, the horror of what is happening to women across this country. Just, you know, a few weeks ago, we learned the names of Amber Thurman and Candy Miller. You know, now we know that abortion bans don't stop people from seeking access to abortion. Abortion bans have made pregnancy more dangerous. And so we are involved as deeply as we are because we believe that electing Kamala Harris and Tim Walz is key to restoring reproductive freedom, to getting federal legislation that will allow us to end this nightmare.

[David Remnick]

Your predecessor at Planned Parenthood appeared uneasy with the partisan politics that Planned Parenthood had been comfortable with and wanted to shift the focus a bit. I think this is fair. Away from abortion. And then was pushed out of leadership less than a year later. You're taking a very different approach.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

So I may disagree slightly with the characterization. I think that Planned Parenthood has always been about healthcare. Right. We are the nation's largest sexual reproductive healthcare provider. And the reality is healthcare is politicized. You don't ask UnitedHealthcare to end its lobbying arm right. In Washington, D.C. you don't ask that of any major Walgreens or CVS because they understand how important it is to engage in policy and politics in order to protect the care that they provide. And I think that my position, particularly in this moment, is that politics got us into this situation. Abortion is not a partisan issue. There is no way we would have won in Kansas and Kentucky and Montana and Ohio and Michigan, all of those ballot initiatives, if you were not bringing along Republican and independents into the conversation. Right. And uniting them, because it is across the board. That's what all the polling indicates. So I don't see this as a partisan issue.

[David Remnick]

Now, the Dobbs decision undid Roe vs Wade, and even if the Democrats win, you still have the court that you have. What can a Harris administration do within the realm of the likely Congress that is probably at best split?

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Well, the goal is to get to a trifecta, right. A reproductive freedom majority in the, you know, in the House.

[David Remnick]

And if that happens, what can happen?

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Federal legislation to restore reproductive freedom. It should not be the case, for example, that I go to visit my mother in Georgia with my daughters, and all of a sudden I'm less free there than I am when we wake up here in New York City. And so the importance of having federal legislation to protect those freedoms and to restore that is going to be paramount. That's what we're working towards. And we also know that it is quite possible that federal legislation could be contested and brought up to the court. But we would be forcing the court to take away this right again and again, and we would be forcing people to bring that case when we know where the American public is.

[David Remnick]

Let's say you don't win the trifecta. In fact, the likelihood is you don't that the Democratic Democrats do not have both houses of Congress and the White House. If they do win the White House, Democrats win the White House and one house of Congress, one chamber of Congress. What's the best that can happen?

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Look, I think there still is a lot that we can do that the vice president can do in supporting and bringing more protections to things like family planning, more protections to things like maternal mortality.

[Advertisement Announcer]

Right.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

You know, the other kind of concurrent crises that are happening, along with the public health crisis, of losing abortion access. And so there are a lot of conversations that can be had. And, you know, at the end of the day, it will be very whatever the margin is. We know we won't get to a 60 majority in the Senate, but it will allow us, I think, an opportunity to force some very hard votes and very hard conversations with those senators.

[David Remnick]

The stakes of this are enormous and sometimes overlooked, at least by people not paying attention. Stefania Taladrid, a reporter for the New Yorker, as well as ProPublica more recently, have made it quite plain that the stakes of what's happened are that people die.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Yes. Yes.

[David Remnick]

Tell me a little bit more about that. Our understanding of what has been the cost, the human cost of the end of ro.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Yeah, I remember right after the leak In May of 22, the leak of the Supreme Court decision about jobs, Lancet Medical Journal to Premier Medical Journal, the COVID read, women will die. And while we know that, while we knew that, remember, we had been living a year into SB8 in Texas and we were seeing, it was the first time I was hearing stories about patients being sent to parking lots in hospitals to wait for sepsis before doctors would provide the care. You knew that the human costs would happen soon after, whether or not we'd be able to tie the abortion bans to the actual, to the deaths that we would see. Or we knew we would have to wait until the maternal morbidity data was collected to actually be able to make the argument to now have names of women like Amber Thurman and Candy Miller to know their stories. Right. They're, you know, leaving behind families, leaving behind children the fear that they had. One was afraid to go to the hospital when she knew something was wrong because she feared criminalization, getting health care. The other went to the hospital and was essentially denied care until it was too late. And so I do think that the devastating consequences, which I'm sure extend beyond Amber and Candy, of course they do. Those are the only ones we know about. It really puts into perspective how horrific these bands are.

[David Remnick]

I'm Speaking with Alexis McGill Johnson of Planned Parenthood and we'll continue in a moment.

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[David Remnick]

I found it very interesting when you spoke at the Democratic National Convention. You said we cannot call ourselves a free nation when women are not free. And you also chose to highlight the story of a woman who sought an abortion not because of a life or death situation. Yes, which is what Kamala Harris did in the debate, but in your words, because she, quote, realized that she was pregnant and didn't want to be. Why was that the story you chose to highlight?

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Because being able to elect what you want to do with your body is fundamental to freedom. And if I am free and equal, I should be able to speak about an elective abortion.

[David Remnick]

But I ask that not because I object to you.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

No, no.

[David Remnick]

What I'm saying is that it's very interesting to watch even politicians that one knows to be pro choice that they pick as examples when there is a life and death situation, as opposed to someone who doesn't choose to be.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Because the reality is the majority of people who seek access to abortion are making these decisions because they do want to have an abortion, because they have made some decision around what their life plan is and they do not see having a child in whatever particular moment as where they would like to go. The majority of people who seek access to abortion are already parents, so they have full sense of what that means in terms of the impact to their family and to their lives and their communities. And so I think it is actually very important to normalize the circumstances of elective abortion because they are, in fact, you know, a great majority of the decisions that people are making. And quite frankly, honestly, it's no one's business. That was the other point. Right. It's literally no one's business.

[David Remnick]

As a policy matter, President Biden and Vice President Harris didn't differ, but as a matter of emotion and emphasis, they did. President Biden in fact, had a reference to abortion in one major speech and he excised it, whereas Vice President Harris has had a long record on this issue. What do you make of her rhetoric around the issue of abortion access?

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Without question, the vice president is the the most kind of vocal and profound elected speaking about abortion as a surrogate on the issue. Right. She is the one who took this on right after Dobbs. She is the one who traveled around the country, met with hundreds of state legislatures and providers and patients to really understand full circle what the impact was. She is the first sitting vice president or president to come to a Planned Parenthood health center, to come to an abortion clinic and really understand the conversations that have been happening on the ground. And please do understand that when we talk about a clinic such as this, it is absolutely about healthcare and reproductive healthcare. So everyone get ready for the language uterus. That part of the body needs a lot of medical care from time to time. And I think the marked difference isn't just her ability to wrap her arms around it. It's the fact that she brings so much of her lived experience, her professional lived experience into the conversation. So you'll hear her talk about prosecuting sexual assault cases and her own personal experiences growing up. You'll hear her talking about what it took to pull together the Momnibus bill to focus on maternal mortality and the wide range of abortion circumstances and pregnancy related circumstances. You heard her grilling Justice Kavanaugh, right? To say what other procedure for men. Right. Is as heavily regulated and legislated like, can we name one? Right. No, because there aren't any. And we've seen her, I think, as a, as a vice president, really sit strongly with movement leaders and with other party leaders and corporate leaders to talk about the broad impacts.

[David Remnick]

It's your best issue, is it not?

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Yes, 100%.

[David Remnick]

But it's her best issue. And then her ability to move the dial legislatively if and when she's elected is at best contingent. Is there a possibility that could lead to a great deal of disappointment?

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Look, I think that's our job. Our job is to get her a governing majority and ensure that we get the federal legislation that she can sign. And I think we have to continue to explain to Americans that she is the best on this issue. We know she will fight and we know she will sign legislation. And look, we are very sober around the long term plan. Right. That we didn't get here overnight. We didn't get here simply because of the Trump administration issued in these abortion bans. This was a long term strategy of taking over state houses, taking over federal judiciary, and got expedited, literally in four years under the Trump administration. And so we know who to blame. And we also know that to do the work, it will require us to stay vigilant, state by state, living room by living room.

[David Remnick]

What would happen with the new Trump administration? Well, you know, for the record, your eyebrows are soaring, your hands are now shaking.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

My head's on fire. Yeah, just definitely chalk that up to post traumatic stress or pre traumatic stress. Pre traumatic stress, exactly. Look, I mean, they've laid it out in Project 2025, right? How confident do you have to be to lay out a 900 page playbook on what you would do on so many issues, but particularly on issues of reproductive freedom. We're talking about, for the record, he's.

[David Remnick]

Disingenuously or not disavowed Project 2025.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Again, he does two things, right. He says he's disavowing it.

[David Remnick]

Are you saying he's lying?

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

But right before that, he also says, you know, this is really bad for us, so now I'm going to disavow. So, like we're watching him have these machinations in public, which is exactly why I might say, yes, he's being disingenuous at best.

[David Remnick]

What do you think he would do? Or what do you think he could do with control of Congress?

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Well, what Project 2025 would do would be. You couldn't affect.

[David Remnick]

Nationwide ban.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Nationwide ban, not just through federal legislation. Right. But by enforcing the Comstock Law. And I think that.

[David Remnick]

Explain that.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

The Comstock Law, which is a 1800s law against pornography, prohibiting the kind of distribution through the mail of pornographic products. He would likely direct the DOJ to.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, but how does that relate to abortion? To include abortion. Penthouse magazine through the mail.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Yeah, exactly. To include something like mifepristone. In broad sweeping. Yes. In the suite of things that.

[David Remnick]

That's the next target.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Obscene. Yes, exactly. Mifepristone. So again, effectively a nationwide abortion ban, given that more than half of abortions are done through mifepristone. The pregnancy czar. Right. Like a database of pregnant people where they could.

[David Remnick]

I'm sorry, a pregnancy czar.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Pregnancy czar, yes. That would live in instead of health and Human Services, which we know as hhs. I believe the new designation would be the Agency for Human Life or some. Some sort which could include a pregnancy czar that would monitor pregnant people's pregnancies. Like, I say that as if that's like some dystopian nightmare. But the reality is Planned Parenthood in Missouri, there was the state health commissioner was actually tracking patient menstrual cycles. So this kind of level of surveillance and invasion of privacy into private healthcare medical decisions is. Is work they have been testing in order to essentially codify that inequality in government agencies. Is that scary enough for you?

[David Remnick]

It is, yes. It is sufficiently scary.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Explain my eyebrows.

[David Remnick]

Alexis McGill Johnson, thank you so much.

[Alexis McGill Johnson]

Thank you for having me.

[David Remnick]

Alexis McGill Johnson is the president and CEO of Plan Parenthood, the health care provider, as well as the Planned Parenthood Action Fund, the group's lobbying arm. That's the New Yorker Radio Hour for today. I'm David Remnick. Thanks for listening. See you next time.

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