The Unfolding Genocide in Sudan

Summary

The New Yorker Radio Hour: The Unfolding Genocide in Sudan

Host: David Remnick
Reporter: Nicholas Niarchos
Release Date: June 17, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "The Unfolding Genocide in Sudan," David Remnick brings to light the harrowing civil war in Sudan, a conflict the U.S. State Department has designated as genocide. Despite its severity, the crisis has remained underreported compared to other global conflicts. Nicholas Niarchos, a seasoned contributor to The New Yorker, provides an in-depth exploration of the situation, offering firsthand accounts from war-torn regions.

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Background of the Conflict

The civil war in Sudan, reignited in April 2023, involves a fierce battle between the Sudanese army and the Rapid Support Forces (RSF), a paramilitary group led by billionaire Mohammed de Galo, also known as Hemeti. Former allies, these factions now occupy different territories, leading to widespread destruction and atrocities, especially targeting Sudan's black ethnic groups. According to Human Rights Watch, the conflict has resulted in over 9,000 civilian deaths and displaced more than 5 million people in the past two years.

Nicholas Niarchos recounts his arduous journey to the conflict zone:

“I joined up with a Human Rights Watch team and flew to South Sudan. And then we took trucks for five days through rebel territory, crossing the border.” [00:01:46]

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Journey to the Nuba Mountains

Niarchos's reporting took him to the El Hilu refugee camp in the Nuba Mountains, a region of strategic and symbolic significance to the Nuba people. The mountains have historically provided a sanctuary, allowing the Nuba to resist genocidal forces by hiding among the peaks.

Upon arrival, Niarchos describes the stark contrast between the serene landscape and the grim realities faced by the inhabitants:

“You start seeing the children with their distended bellies. And you start hearing the stories of the people who fled.” [00:03:28]

The refugees, including families like Wanis and Intisar, have endured traumatic journeys, fleeing their homes to seek safety in the mountains. Wanis, a former courier and community pillar, shares his harrowing experience:

“They brought my mother in front of me, and they raped her because they want to see how I react if I am a soldier. So it will bring... Maybe bring guns or something like that. I just kept quiet, and they were raping her.” [00:15:02]

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Key Players and Their Motivations

The conflict's roots trace back to power struggles following the ousting of dictator Omar al-Bashir in 2019. A transitional government emerged, offering hope for peace after decades of civil wars and dictatorships. However, power dynamics shifted when the RSF, led by Hemeti—a former camel herder turned military leader notorious for his role in the Darfur genocide—attempted a coup to seize control in Khartoum [00:04:17].

Hemeti, leveraging his wealth from gold mining and control over vital supply routes, amassed significant power, becoming a billionaire in the process. His rivalry with General Abdel Fattah al Burhan, head of the Sudanese army, culminated in open conflict. According to Niarchos:

“There was this great animosity that developed between both Burhan... and Hemetti... it was basically as if Hemetti... was not allowed into the country club.” [00:07:56]

This personal and power-driven conflict has exacerbated ethnic tensions, with the predominantly Arab leadership oppressing Sudan's black ethnic groups in regions like Darfur and Kordofan [00:08:25].

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Human Impact and Atrocities

The civil war has unleashed widespread atrocities, including mass killings, sexual violence, and systemic displacement. Niarchos highlights that sexual violence is systematically used by RSF troops as a means of terrorizing and controlling the population. A Sudanese civil society activist explains:

“Rape was used as a way of rewarding troops... there’s a toxic mix of both supremacist ideology and a culture of giving spoils to troops in lieu of paying them.” [00:13:58]

Survivors recount traumatic experiences, underscoring the brutality of the conflict:

“They will kill you like dogs.” [00:12:16]

The refugee crisis is dire, with approximately 1 million people seeking refuge in the Nuba Mountains and tens of millions suffering from malnutrition and lack of basic necessities [00:13:05].

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International Response and Challenges

Efforts to quell the conflict have been largely ineffective. The U.S. has attempted to support peace negotiations, but both the Sudanese army and RSF remain uninterested in dialogue. Nicholas Niarchos notes:

“It has been fairly futile because the Sudanese armed forces don't really want to negotiate. Neither do the RSF.” [00:16:15]

Sanctions against countries like the UAE or Saudi Arabia, which are believed to back the RSF, could potentially alter the conflict's trajectory, but Niarchos expresses skepticism about such measures in the near future [00:16:39].

Additionally, cuts to local aid organizations, exacerbated by previous U.S. administration policies, have worsened the humanitarian crisis. While the U.S. State Department has maintained some aid, grassroots organizations have suffered significant funding losses, impacting food distribution and essential services [00:17:04].

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Prospects for Resolution

The outlook for peace in Sudan remains bleak. A U.S. official described the conflict as a "fight to the death," indicating that deep-seated animosities between Burhan and Hemeti leave little room for compromise [00:18:03]. Niarchos suggests that without substantial intervention, Sudan may continue to experience increasing violence and humanitarian suffering [00:18:27].

Proposals for a United Nations peacekeeping mission have been floated, aiming to prevent further genocidal violence. However, skepticism remains regarding the effectiveness of such missions, which historically often only temporarily halt conflicts without addressing underlying issues [00:19:16].

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Conclusion

Nicholas Niarchos's reporting from Sudan paints a grim picture of a nation torn apart by power struggles, ethnic tensions, and relentless violence. The lack of international intervention and the internal intransigence of Sudan’s leaders suggest that the conflict may continue to escalate, deepening the humanitarian crisis. As the global community grapples with numerous crises, the Sudanese genocide remains a pressing yet under-addressed tragedy.

For further reading, refer to Niarchos's article, "Escape from Khartoum," available at newyorker.com.

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Notable Quotes:

• Nicholas Niarchos [00:15:02]:
  “They brought my mother in front of me, and they raped her because they want to see how I react if I am a soldier. So it will bring... Maybe bring guns or something like that. I just kept quiet, and they were raping her.”

• Wanis [00:12:16]:
  “God, be patient, because they'll kill you too. It's appalling to hear, and there doesn't seem to be anyone to defend them from these atrocities.”

• Nicholas Niarchos [00:16:39]:
  “Well, the day that the US puts sanctions on the UAE or on Saudi Arabia is the way that this conflict will probably change. But I don't see that coming.”

---

This summary aims to provide a comprehensive overview of the podcast episode for readers who have not listened to it, capturing the essential discussions and poignant testimonies surrounding the Sudanese genocide.

Transcript

[Unknown Host]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker.

[David Remnick]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Your news feed is undoubtedly filled with the crises in Los Angeles and Washington. From abroad, it's likely filled with stories from the Middle east and Ukraine. But the civil war in Sudan, which the State Department has called a genocide, receives relatively little attention. Recently, the New Yorker published a brilliant report from Sudan by a longtime contributor, Nicholas Niarchos. The civil war pits the Sudanese army against a militia group controlled by a billionaire general. The groups were formerly allies, but now they occupy different parts of the country, destroying infrastructure in the opposing group's territory and committing atrocities against civilians, atrocities that are directed in particular against members of Sudan's black ethnic groups. At least 9,000 civilians have been killed in the last two years. Over 5 million people have been displaced. That's all according to Human Rights Watch. And I want to mention that our story today addresses widespread sexual violence carried out by soldiers and may not be appropriate for some listeners. Our writer, Nicholas Niarchos, did his reporting from a refugee camp deep in Sudan's Nuba Mountains. Nick, the war in Sudan is something that has not been covered nearly enough. And you did a remarkable piece in the New Yorker, and you were recently there. How did you get there and what did you see?

[Nicholas Niarchos]

I joined up with a Human Rights Watch team and flew to South Sudan. And then we took trucks for five days through rebel territory, crossing the border.

[Unknown Contributor]

Into the Nuba Mountains.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

This was a very, very muddy part of the rainy season, and many of.

[Unknown Contributor]

The roads were flooded.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And they had this sort of remarkable way of attaching tractors to trucks and then sort of dragging them out of the mud. And you had this sort of metal.

[Unknown Contributor]

Bark that had been welded together in the market.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And then you'd always have a tractor with you, and they would basically rev the tractor until it just jerked you.

[Unknown Contributor]

Out of the mud.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And it was incredibly unpleasant, but actually quite effective, if fairly slow. Essentially. Yeah, we went, we were traveling for.

[Unknown Contributor]

Days and days in this way.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

We arrived at the El Hilu camp in an area that, you know, on first impressions, looks incredibly beautiful. You.

[Unknown Contributor]

You see these mountains.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

It's essentially sort of dry grassland with these sort of these peaks looming above you. And they're peaks that are very significant.

[Unknown Contributor]

To the Nuba people because they're peaks.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

That have sheltered them for generations. And they feel safe being there because they have managed to resist genocide before.

[Unknown Contributor]

By hiding in these mountains.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And then you start seeing the children.

[Unknown Contributor]

With their distended bellies. And you start hearing the stories of the people who fled.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And you start seeing the fear in the faces of young mothers who have. Have brought their babies in suitcases, essentially, and had their babies sitting outside in.

[Unknown Contributor]

Cribs that have been improvised out of suitcases.

[David Remnick]

Let's start with the basics. This is a very complicated conflict. And tell me what's at stake, who's fighting whom, and what are the perils?

[Nicholas Niarchos]

So the conflict in Sudan started in April of 2023 in earnest, when a.

[Unknown Contributor]

Paramilitary faction called the Rapid Support Forces, the rsf, started to try and take.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Power in Khartoum through coup d' etat. And they attacked the presidential palace and the airport, and then began this very.

[Unknown Contributor]

Very violent campaign in the countryside.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And the army fought back against the rsf.

[Unknown Contributor]

And this has basically led to a fragmentation of the country.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And a whole bunch of local militias have essentially become empowered and have been.

[Unknown Contributor]

Given weapons by different actors.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And the conflict has devolved into what.

[Unknown Contributor]

The State Department has called genocide.

[David Remnick]

But what led up to the RSF attack that began this conflict in the first place?

[Unknown Contributor]

The war started really as a clash of personalities. The dictator, Omar al Bashir, had been deposed in 2019. There had been this transitional government, this.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Moment of great hope for Sudan, which is a country that has been through three civil wars.

[Unknown Contributor]

It's been through dictatorship after dictatorship.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And the army decided that they were going to take power, and they concentrated their power in the figure of Abdel Fattah al Burhan, a former military intelligence officer who had worked in Darfur, West Darfur, during some of the worst days of the genocide. But also another very, very popular general.

[Unknown Contributor]

One news report called him A star of the new militarism.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Was Mohammed de Galo.

[Unknown Contributor]

He is known as Hemeti, which means little Muhammad. And he essentially started life as a.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Camel herder and then took part in the war in Darfur and took part in some of the. Really some of the most shocking examples of the genocide.

[Unknown Contributor]

And he rose through the ranks of.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

The Sudanese army and was sort of.

[Unknown Contributor]

Used as a tool during the 2010s.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

By both the UAE and the Sudanese.

[Unknown Contributor]

Army to quell dissent at home and to fight the war in Yemen.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And he, at the same time as doing this, solidified his own wealth.

[Unknown Contributor]

He basically used his militia to take.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Over gold mining areas.

[Unknown Contributor]

He used his militia to.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Seize control of important supply routes, and he became a billionaire.

[David Remnick]

So the leaders of the warring parties are both from Sudan's dominant Arab ethnic group. They actually work together to take down the former dictator. What made them turn on each other.

[Unknown Contributor]

This was a situation in which you had this one very powerful, very rich.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Person coming to Khartoum and you had.

[Unknown Contributor]

The army taking power.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And you could see that sort of developing into a situation in which they.

[Unknown Contributor]

Both decide to share power or they both decide to rule together.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

But of course, that's not what happens. There's this great animosity that develops between both Burhan, the general at the head of the army, and Hemetti, who's the.

[Unknown Contributor]

General at the head of the rsf.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And as one official who has been.

[Unknown Contributor]

Involved in peace talks in Sudan told.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Me, it was basically as if Hemetti.

[Unknown Contributor]

Despite his wealth, despite his power, he was not allowed into the country club.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And there was this sort of deep resentment that built up and he thought.

[Unknown Contributor]

Look, I'm better than you and decided to try and seize power.

[David Remnick]

But how is Sudan divided up ethnically and in terms of language, in terms of race and in terms of politics?

[Nicholas Niarchos]

So Sudan is an Arabic speaking country. It is a country that has a majority of Arabs, but you have this black population in the south and in.

[Unknown Contributor]

The west in a region called Darfur and in a region called Kordofan.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Those populations are sort of treated as second class citizens or worse by the supremacist Arab populations.

[David Remnick]

Nicholas Nyarchos reported recently from Sudan for the New Yorker. We'll continue in a moment.

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[Ira Glass]

This is Ira Glass on this American Life. Sometimes we just show up somewhere, turn on our tape recorders and see what happens.

[Unknown Contributor]

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Like at this car dealership trying to sell its monthly quota of cars and it is not going well.

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I just don't want one balloon to a car balloon the whole freaking place. So it looks like a circus.

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This is American Life. True stories. Really good ones every week. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Remnick]

In your piece in the New Yorker, Nick, you focused on a couple whom you met by the name of Wanis and Intisar, as well as their children. The family made an extremely dangerous journey through the war zone to the Nuba Mountains where you met them.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Wannis had actually been a courier And.

[Unknown Contributor]

A baggage handler at the airport in Khartoum. He was a sort of simple guy.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

But also a kind of pillar of his community and was known as somebody who would help out in this very, very poor community of Nuba African. And these are black skinned African population who live in various parts of Sudan.

[Unknown Contributor]

But they're originally from this area called the Nuba Mountains.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

So these people were living in a.

[Unknown Contributor]

Suburb of Khartoum, which was taken by the rsf, by this paramilitary group.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

They saw people that they knew, their neighbors and people who looked like them.

[Unknown Contributor]

A lot of Nuba people being targeted specifically for their race.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

They saw, for example, people being shot in the market. They heard stories about rapes that had taken place.

[Unknown Contributor]

And one decided to get his family out of Khartoum.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And on the other side as well.

[Unknown Contributor]

The Sudanese armed forces fighting back against the paramilitary group would often indiscriminately shell their neighborhood or fire mortar rounds into.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Their street and so on.

[David Remnick]

I mean, in a sense, their story is one of the oldest stories in war anywhere is the displacement. You see this in Gaza, you see this in Ukraine, and you're obviously seeing it at extraordinary levels in Sudan. At one point, the RSF has stopped them over and over again. And in one instance, Juana says threatened after telling the RSF soldiers where they're headed. Let's listen to him here.

[Wanis]

And he told me, why are you going there? Most people migrate to Egypt, other countries. And why you are going there? And I told him, this is my land. If I die, I can die in my land. He told him that if you go to Nuba Mountains, we will reach you there. We're supposed to kill you like dogs.

[David Remnick]

If they go to the Nuba Mountains, they'll be killed like dogs. How many people are in that kind of circumstance in Sudan today?

[Nicholas Niarchos]

So there are about a million people.

[Unknown Contributor]

Who fled to the Nuba Mountains.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And there are tens of millions of more people who are desperately malnourished. But the Nuba Mountains is particularly complicated because you just have this huge influx of refugees, especially black southern Sudanese refugees who had come to Khartoum to make a better life and then were targeted.

[Unknown Contributor]

For their ethnicity by these invading forces.

[David Remnick]

One of the things that you were hearing a lot about was stories of sexual violence. Why does the rsf, the militias, abuse the civilian population in that way? And what's being done about it?

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Yeah, so I actually spoke to a Sudanese civil society activist. She said that that essentially rape was.

[Unknown Contributor]

Used as a way of rewarding troops.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And then this supremacist ideology which has.

[Unknown Contributor]

Existed in Sudan for a long time.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Sort of comes into play as well. There's this kind of sense that these people are almost subhuman. I think that there's this very, very toxic mix of both supremacist ideology and a culture of giving spoils to troops in lieu of paying them, because these.

[Unknown Contributor]

Militias are often very poor themselves.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

I mean, everybody had a story about either they were raped or that they.

[Unknown Contributor]

Knew people who had been raped or they had seen people raped in front of them.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

I spoke to a man from Darfur.

[Unknown Contributor]

Named John who had seen his mother.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Raped by multiple men from the RSF.

[Unknown Contributor]

In front of him.

[Wanis]

They brought me, and they asked me, are you a soldier? I told them no. They told me, whom do you have here? They told them, I have my mother here. They brought my mother in front of me, and they raped her because they want to see how I react if I am a soldier. So it will bring. Maybe bring guns or something like that. I just kept quiet, and they were raping her. My mother advised me, told me, my son, be patient. Ask. These things happen to us or to me. You need to be patient, because if you are not patient, so they will kill you too.

[David Remnick]

God, be patient, because they'll kill you too. It's appalling to hear, and there doesn't seem to be anyone to defend them from these atrocities. Have any other countries attempted to step in and try to stop the killing?

[Nicholas Niarchos]

You know, the US has tried to.

[Unknown Contributor]

Especially under the Biden administration, has tried.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

To support a peace process, and the.

[Unknown Contributor]

State Department continues to try and do.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

So, but it has been fairly futile because the Sudanese armed forces don't really want to negotiate.

[Unknown Contributor]

Neither do the rsf.

[David Remnick]

What about something like sanctions on countries that are bankrolling the rsf?

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Well, the day that the US Puts sanctions on the UAE or on Saudi Arabia is the way that this conflict will probably change. But I don't see that coming.

[David Remnick]

We know what's happened to US Foreign aid under the Trump administration. And there have been DOGE cuts that have nearly obliterated usaid. What's been the impact of that on the people in Sudan?

[Unknown Contributor]

At the beginning, there was a lot.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Of chaos, and the ambassadors to Sudan had to reaffirm that because of the.

[Unknown Contributor]

Gravity of the situation, US USAID to Sudan would not be cut. However, there are many organizations, local organizations, which were sponsored through grants, and those organizations, which are often, you know, frontline soup kitchens and things like this, did have their funding cut.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And so therefore, there's a great deal.

[Unknown Contributor]

Of effect on the situ, on the situation.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And people are not getting food in.

[Unknown Contributor]

The way that they used to.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And they, the way they used to.

[Unknown Contributor]

Was not particularly sufficient either.

[David Remnick]

What would it take to end this conflict? Do you see any sign of a resolution in Sudan?

[Nicholas Niarchos]

I was speaking to a US Official in Washington the other day and he was saying that he thinks it's a.

[Unknown Contributor]

Fight to the death.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Basically, it's this rivalry. They hate each other and that is.

[Unknown Contributor]

Going to be the end to the conflict. One of them is going to die. So I think that Sudan is really.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Really on its own.

[David Remnick]

So it sounds like we're going to see a great deal more bloodshed and suffering, misery and hunger in Sudan for some time to come, unfortunately.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

I think that's what we're going to see. Yeah, I think that there's, you know, there has been this idea of and.

[Unknown Contributor]

This was something that the Human Rights Watch team that I went with was.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Very pro, this idea of putting in.

[Unknown Contributor]

A UN Peacekeeping mission.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And UN Peacekeeping missions have a mixed.

[Unknown Contributor]

History, but they're certainly not liked by the Trump administration.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

And the idea of a peacekeeping mission.

[Unknown Contributor]

Would be to keep the warring parties away from one another.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

But the question is, would that just freeze the conflict and put it off to another day, or would that seriously.

[Unknown Contributor]

Resolve some of the deep differences between the different warring groups?

[David Remnick]

History shows that it tends to do the former, not the latter.

[Unknown Contributor]

That is true.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

But if it staves off the genocidal violence, perhaps there might be a more.

[Unknown Contributor]

Pressing short term need for it.

[David Remnick]

Nicholas Niarchos, thanks for your reporting. It's always good to see you.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Thank you very much, David.

[David Remnick]

Nicholas Niarchos has been reporting from Sudan and you can read Escape from Khartoum, which is focused on walness and into Sar's journey to the Nuba Mountains. @newyorker.com I'm David Remnick. Thanks for listening. I hope you'll join us next time.

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And that's Commercial break. Nice. Ooh, hear that? My neck cracked. So satisfying. Speaking of satisfying I just use a Clorox toilet wand.

[Nicholas Niarchos]

Ooh.

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With the cleaner already in it. Yes. All in one. The brush just clicks on. Click. Then you swish.

[David Remnick]

Ah.

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And pops right off into the trash. Just click, swish, pop. Clorox. Clean feels good. Clean feels good. Oh, we're back. Use as directed.

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