Podcast Summary:

The New Yorker Radio Hour — "Three Actors Explain What It Means to Be ‘Presidential’"
Date: August 21, 2018
Host: Michael Shulman (with David Remnick introduction)
Guests: Alfre Woodard, Tony Goldwyn, Bill Pullman

Episode Overview

This episode, recorded during the New Yorker Festival, brings together acclaimed actors Alfre Woodard (“State of Affairs”), Tony Goldwyn (“Scandal”), and Bill Pullman (“Independence Day”) to explore what it means to play the President of the United States onscreen. Hosted by Michael Shulman, the panel reflects on the personal qualities, public expectations, and dramatic stakes involved in portraying American presidents—real, fictional, male, female, and minorities—against the backdrop of evolving ideas about what is “presidential” in American culture.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Sets Playing a President Apart?

• Humanity at the Forefront

  • Alfre Woodard argues that each president brings their personal history:
    “Whoever you are, it's like going to your job. You know, what your job requirement is in the day, and you bring your whole history of who you are and the way you relate to people, and you're more A's with it.” (01:55)
  • She laughs off the generic idea of being “presidential,” calling it surface-level.

• Intensity of Stakes and Attention

  • Tony Goldwyn points out the unending pressure:
    “Playing the President, every minute of every day, the stakes involved in everything that you do are so incredibly high...even in walking down the hallway.” (02:22)
  • “24/7, you are in the public eye,” Goldwyn reiterates, describing the heightened attention inherent to the role. (05:12)

• Evolution of the Presidential Role in Fiction

  • Bill Pullman reflects on the rarity and newness of presidents as central characters:
    “At that point, 95, up until then, the President's part wasn't a desirable part...But to think of a crafted character that's a central character and you're watching the nuances of his psychology and everything, that was fairly new in 95. And since then, it seems to be a character type like Hamlet that everybody wants to take a whack at.” (02:52)

Defining “Presidential”: Physicality, Presence, and Perception

• Authority Without Assertion

  • Pullman describes seeking a presence where others naturally defer, rather than asserting dominance:
    “I didn't want to have to work hard at being president...no matter what they said, they had to triangulate to me...that would be what would happen with the President. It wasn't my assertion of anything that would make that happen. It had to be something in the air.” (04:19)

• Changed Interpersonal Dynamics

  • Goldwyn observes how playing the president changes others’ behaviors even off-screen:
    “People treat me differently. Like all of a sudden, you just come into the room and people. You have all of this gravitas, by definition. So everybody is always looking at you all the time.” (05:12)

Gender, Race, and the Presidential Archetype

• Female Presidents & Cultural Baggage

  • Woodard reflects on playing one of the first Black women presidents and the “mommy” phenomenon:
    “We had this mommy thing where somehow we turned everything over to the moms of the country...But we still couldn't bring ourselves to say, madam President, we don't know what would happen if you had to say that. So I felt responsibility to make sure that she was somebody, first of all, realistically figuring out how it would happen…” (06:01)
  • She describes crafting a detailed backstory for her character Constance Payton, emphasizing military credentials and practical conservatism to ground believability.

• Military Backgrounds as Presidential Legitimacy

  • Michael Shulman notes all their fictional presidents have military history, contrasting recent real-life presidents.
  • Pullman links his role’s backstory to then-current events, e.g., questioning Bill Clinton’s toughness, influencing the decision to make his character a fighter pilot.
    “They made a deliberate choice to have this fighter pilot background…” (08:36)
  • Observes the real-world echo of his film’s imagery when Bush donned a flight suit during the “mission accomplished” speech. (09:23)

The Power—and Burden—of Presidential Oratory

• Bill Pullman’s Iconic “Independence Day” Speech
  • The panel watches the legendary scene (09:40-11:16).
  • Pullman reveals he studied Robert Kennedy’s impromptu speech after MLK's assassination for inspiration:
    “He spoke about that this is a time in which it is understandable for blacks to have bitterness and anger and revenge...But he quoted Aeschylus in talking about how the pain can drop one by drop... until we will begin to have greater wisdom for compassion and love by the awful grace of God...” (11:49)
  • He discusses art and life’s mutual influence, noting real presidents’ behavior post-9/11 sometimes mirrored cinematic drama.

Life Imitates Art—and the “Presidential” Mystique Follows

• Actors Treated Like Presidents
  • Pullman: “When I do I meet presidents, there is a little look in their eye like you're one of us... And I'll go to certain countries, and they love the little theater of saying Mr. President.” (14:34)
  • Goldwyn confirms fans and strangers often address him as “Mr. President.” (15:01)

Sexuality, Power, and the Modern President

• Handling On-screen Presidential Romance

  • Watching a “Scandal” clip prompts discussion of the show’s signature steamy scenes. (16:08–17:23)
  • Goldwyn describes the comedic awkwardness of filming love scenes amid a huge crew, emphasizing that the real focus is emotional connection:
    “You never know. One week you're going to open your script and be like, oh, God, I have to have my clothes off again... But imagine, just imagine having sex with 50 people standing there looking at you, you know, which is what a film crew is and does.” (15:45, 17:39)
  • He asserts Fitz acts for love, not power:
    “It was very important to me as the character developed, to anchor it in someone who was desperately, uncontrollably in love with this woman and was willing to sacrifice all of it for her... it was not a conscious abuse of power.” (18:48)

• Scandal and Context: Clinton Comparisons

  • While the storylines parallel Bill Clinton’s scandals, Goldwyn focuses on differences:
    “The Monica Lewinsky thing, obviously, that's just out there... but from Fitz, his obsessive love for Olivia Pope dominates. He was terribly, completely in love with her, and that was just different than the situation with Bill Clinton.” (20:35)

Bringing Authenticity to “Madam President”

• Preparation and Advocacy Influencing Performance
  • Watching a tense “State of Affairs” situation room scene, Woodard discusses bringing her activist history to bear:
    “I started knocking on doors...with my parents when I was 10 years old. So I've been active in every presidential, municipal, state campaign... But I started to understand what it took to make things happen... With Constance Payton, I would have worked for her... My work was to understand and be able to articulate and act out of a military militaristic point of view, out of a conservative point of view, because my impulse would be the other direction.” (22:21)

Representation and Its Impact

• The Importance of Black Women (and Others) as President
  • Woodard reflects on the impact her casting might have for children watching:
    “We owe our boys possibility as much as we owe our girls. We have to remember that they're watching too, and we're training their expectations the way that we train our girls expectations. So to me, I had a job to do. I'm not conscious ever when I'm playing a character, I'm not conscious of how that character's perceived. I can't be, because then I've stepped out of who that person is.” (25:11)

Notable Quotes

• Alfre Woodard:
  “People talk about being presidential. That just means keep your fingers out of your nose or something.” (01:55)

• Tony Goldwyn:
  “Every minute of every day, the stakes involved in everything that you do are so incredibly high.” (02:22)
  “24/7, you are in the public eye. So how do you handle that?” (05:12)

• Bill Pullman:
  “At that point, 95, up until then, the President's part wasn't a desirable part...But to think of a crafted character that's a central character and you're watching the nuances of his psychology and everything, that was fairly new in 95.” (02:52)
  “When I do I meet presidents, there is a little look in their eye like you're one of us.” (14:34)

• Alfre Woodard (on representation):
  “We owe our boys possibility as much as we owe our girls.” (25:11)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:55 — Actors discuss what sets playing presidents apart from other roles
• 04:19 — Physicality and presence of a fictional president
• 06:01 — Woodard on being a female president and backstory creation
• 08:36 — Military backgrounds and their narrative significance
• 09:40-11:16 — Bill Pullman’s “Independence Day” speech
• 11:49 — Pullman on researching presidential oratory
• 14:34 — How actors are perceived as “presidential” in real life
• 16:08-17:23 — “Scandal” clip and discussion of on-screen romance
• 18:48 — Goldwyn on Fitz’s motivations vs abuse of power
• 22:21 — Woodard's activism and preparation for “State of Affairs”
• 25:11 — Woodard on the impact of representation in media

Memorable Moments

• The panel playfully addressing each other by “Mr./Madam President,” blurring fiction and reality.
• Bill Pullman’s reflection on real-life presidents referencing his iconic “Independence Day” moment.
• Alfre Woodard’s candid remarks about the “mommy” trope and her outspokenness on building a plausible path to the presidency for a Black woman.
• Tony Goldwyn’s sheepish humor about the frequency of his shirtlessness in “Scandal.”

In Conclusion

This lively discussion peels back the curtain on the craft, responsibility, and implications of playing America’s top job on screen. The guests illuminate how fiction both shapes and reflects national anxieties, aspirations, and prejudices about who can be president, exploring the political and personal dimensions of embodying power in the pop culture imagination.