U2’s Bono on the Power of Music

Summary

Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour – "U2’s Bono on the Power of Music"

Release Date: July 4, 2025

*Hosted by David Remnick, The New Yorker Radio Hour delves into the life and artistry of Bono, the iconic frontman of U2. This episode explores Bono's personal journey, the band's evolution, their political activism, and the enduring power of music. Below is a detailed summary capturing the essence of the conversation, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps.

---

1. Early Ambitions and Formation of U2

David Remnick opens the discussion by referencing Bono's early vision for U2:
"Early in his career, Bono once told an interviewer about his plans for a band called U2. He said, if we stay in small clubs, we'll develop small minds and then we'll start making small music."
(01:30)

Bono reflects on his youthful ambition:
"Megalomania started in me at a very early age... music was a release from a kind of the pain that a lot of people feel when they don't know what it is that they might have to offer."
(02:52)

2. Personal Loss and Its Impact on Music

The conversation delves into the profound personal losses Bono experienced, particularly the death of his mother, and how these events shaped his musical and personal identity.

Bono shares:
"This wound in me just turned into this opening where I had to fill the hole with music."
(04:42)

He discusses the transformation in his vocal delivery after his father's passing:
"My father used to say, you're a baritone who thinks he's a tenor. And I sort of... After my father died, I felt I kind of became the tenor."
(05:55)

3. Sectarian Violence and Artistic Expression

Remnick brings up the sectarian violence Bono witnessed growing up and its influence on his art. Bono responds by expressing his distrust of religion and nationalism:
"Developed a distrust of religion. Very suspicious of religion."
(07:09)

He elaborates on how his father's perspective influenced his worldview:
"My father was quite accurate... my father didn't fit into the box... my mother, she was a Protestant and they fell in love with each other."
(06:31)

4. The Creation of "Sunday Bloody Sunday"

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the genesis of U2's seminal song, "Sunday Bloody Sunday," and the internal struggles within the band.

Bono recounts the band's spiritual crisis:
"Edge has a kind of spiritual crisis and he's going to leave. And then if he's going to leave, you're going to leave."
(09:18)

He describes the moment of near dissolution:
"We went in and Paul looked over. So you, you've been speaking to God... God has told you that you don't want to be in the band again? You want to break up the band?"
(10:07)

Bono explains the collaborative process leading to the song:
"Edge starts to work on a song that will really explain, will solve the problem. And the song was called Sunday, Bloody Sunday... that became U2."
(17:09)

5. Political Activism and Non-Sectarian Messaging

The episode explores Bono's commitment to non-violent protest through music, specifically addressing the political sensitivity surrounding "Sunday Bloody Sunday."

Discussing the song's reception, Bono notes:
"We were trying to contrast this bloody event in Irish history with Christ on the cross and the kind of stupidity of religious violence."
(20:24)

He reflects on the backlash and personal confrontation:
"Our car was surrounded... angry people... trying to smash the window where Ali was sitting with me."
(23:07)

6. Activism in Ukraine

Bono shares his experiences in Ukraine amidst the conflict, highlighting his dedication to justice and freedom.

He states:
"Justice is something that really is a reason for me to get out of bed... the injustice of what's happening in Ukraine was so hard to take."
(24:12)

Bono describes his interactions with President Zelenskyy:
"He's a great storyteller. I mean, you know this. And he's an actor. He's one of us."
(24:30)

7. Writing a Memoir and Personal Reflections

The discussion touches upon Bono's memoir, "Surrender," and the therapeutic aspects of writing.

Bono explains the motivation behind his memoir:
"The gift it gave me was time on my own... I need more time on my own... I have to slow down my thoughts and they make more sense of me."
(27:18)

8. Long-Lasting Band Dynamics and Financial Management

Remnick compares U2's longevity with that of The Beatles, probing into the secrets behind maintaining a successful band relationship.

Bono shares insights on band harmony and financial arrangements:
"What a fool. Didn't think you would adult anything. It's the best thing ever... Our manager used to say... get that right."
(32:38)

He emphasizes the importance of friendship and mutual support:
"Friendship is what myself and Ali have. When you have romantic love and friendship, that's really something special."
(28:20)

9. Reflections on the Beatles' "Get Back" Documentary

Bono relates his observations from The Beatles' "Get Back" documentary to U2's journey, highlighting the universal challenges bands face.

He remarks:
"They invented reality TV... And you could feel the tension. It's very hard for males and it gets harder to move around each other the older you get."
(30:05)

10. Concluding Thoughts

David Remnick wraps up the conversation, highlighting the enduring legacy of Bono and U2, and promoting the upcoming New Yorker Festival celebrating the magazine's centenary.

Notable Quotes:

• "I find the word surrender... I still find it hard to surrender to my bandmates."
  (08:31)

• "You can die for your ideals, but you shouldn't kill for them, if at all."
  (23:07)

• "We who live in freedom should really, really remember not to fall asleep in ours."
  (26:59)

---

Conclusion

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour offers an intimate glimpse into Bono's life, exploring how personal tragedies, political turmoil, and unwavering dedication to music have shaped U2 into a global phenomenon. Through candid reflections and poignant storytelling, Bono elucidates the transformative power of music as a vessel for both personal healing and social change.

Transcript

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[Bono]

This.

[David Remnick]

Is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker.

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Early in his career, Bono once told an interviewer about his plans for a band called U2. He said, if we stay in small clubs, we'll develop small minds and then we'll start making small music. Now that turned out not to be at all a problem. In the course of a decade, U2 went from playing gigs in small places in Dublin, Ireland, to being one of the biggest bands in the world. And Bono, the fearless and sometimes shameless leader of U2, became among the most definitive rock stars of the modern era, conquering arenas and stadiums around the globe, singing out and often holding forth. Bono is out with a new documentary now on Apple called Stories of Surrender, and I spoke with him at the New Yorker Festival in 2022 before his memoir was released.

[Bono]

When you talk to people who have been in bands when they're 16, no matter what their destiny was, they have no expectations other than to play in a bar, to maybe be the best blues band on in London, like the Stones or whatever, what was the ambition that was fired up in you pretty quickly once this band sort of took shape?

Megalomania started in me at a very early age, David, and the other part of it is desperation and the sense that, you know, from my point of view, this was liberation for me. And I had known as a child that I had melodies in my head and, you know, here and there I'd be good at school, but I was losing concentration and more interested in girls and then music and then, oh, music and girls and a release from. A release from a kind of the pain that a lot of people feel when they don't know what it is that they might have to offer. When I sang in U2, something got a hold of me and it made sense of me. Yeah.

Do you think that some of that feeling, some of that passion came from the loss that you had suffered two years before your mother died at her own father's funeral, or certainly fell ill and then died soon thereafter. Eerily strangely, this is a loss at the same age that Paul McCartney, I think Johnny Lydon, Bob Geldoff, John Lennon's mother died very early. What was in you from that loss? And then a household of three guys, your brother and your father. It seemed there was a great emptiness after that.

It's funny, that thing about rock and roll singers and the mother. I heard somebody say in hip hop, it's more the father. It's interesting. I don't know if that's true or not, but they're both about abandonment and, you know, the heart of the blues. For me, it turned into a gift. This wound in me just turned into this opening where I had to fill the hole with music. And it's a very unscientific theory. I have someone you love's passing, there's sometimes a gift. And the opening up of music came from my mother. And when my father passed, I finally became. I came into a different kind of voice. My father used to say, you're a baritone who thinks he's a tenor. And I sort of. After my father died, I felt I kind of became the tenor.

What do you think of that analysis of your voice? A baritone who thinks he's a tenor?

Very accurate. My father was quite accurate.

Had me down and loved opera himself.

Yeah, he did. He was a tenor and pretty good tenor. And. Yeah, it's interesting. You think about working class Dublin city centre, entered Dublin Catholic, loved his mother. Used to listen to the cricket scores on the radio, like in England, and he listened to opera. They read. It's interesting. And I like the fact that when people don't fit into their box, my father didn't fit into the box. And then just round the corner, my mother, she was a Protestant and they fell in love with Each other. Not remarkable in these days, but in a time when Ireland was nearly at civil war, it became a big. A big thing.

Tell me about, though, your memories of that sectarian violence and the way it fed into your art that was beginning your music.

Developed a distrust of religion. Very suspicious of religion. I still am. And even going back to when I was growing up, you know, it was very male, that energy. And my father was also suspicious of kind of nationalism. My father used to say things like, you know, he'd quote o'. Casey. He say that line from O. Casey, you know, what is Ireland but the only. The land that keeps my feet from getting wet. And when I was writing the book, I found out o' Casey never wrote that. No, he made that up. He really did. It's a great line, though, isn't it?

It's a great line. Your title is Surrender. It's a motif that runs throughout the book. Why did you name the book Surrender?

It's a word I am still grappling with. I'm kind of gathering around. It doesn't come natural to me.

How do you mean?

I find it. I know I was kind of born with my fists up, metaphorically speaking, sometimes literally.

You describe yourself as an angry guy right off the.

A little bit. I'm just. It's not even that. Just a bit suspicious, a bit defensive, maybe, and just have my fists up. And so the word surrender doesn't come natural to me or a lot of Irish people growing up in the 70s. I still find it hard, you know, to surrender to my bandmates. As an older person, as you. It gets even harder to surrender to my wife, you know, to surrender to my maker. I'm. I'm. I'm quite a defiant character. And I. And I'm. But I'm working on that, David. And that's why I wrote the book.

And that's why we're here.

I'm here. Yes. My mother dropped me on my head when I was a baby.

An incredible fraternity and friendship and creative ferment develops in the band. And yet you describe more than once how the band almost breaks up. There's an early.

Only on the good albums. Yeah.

And there's one moment that I wish you'd talk about that, where Edge has a kind of spiritual crisis and he's going to leave. And then if he's going to leave, you're going to leave. And the whole thing seems ready to just dissipate in a moment's time. What happened? It's in the book, I swear to God.

Is tonight a Friday night? It's more of a Sunday morning story, but I will answer that question. Thank you. So we're in a non denominational school. They don't, they're not pushing religion down our throats and yet three of us end up with this very deep faith. We're touched by some of the people we meet at a deep level and we start reading the sacred text. We start exploring this. We meet these, I suppose you'd call them first century radical Christians, kind of punks. And you know, they were, they didn't need many material things. They were very strict in that sense, but they were, they were kind of interesting. And at first we thought that they accepted us for being who we were. After a while they started to get in on us. Maybe this music thing is. You should just put that down. And if, you know, the world is broken really, and it's really broken and if you want to be part of the fixing of it, maybe music is something you should just put away and sing these praise songs. So I'm like, every song we sing is a praise song. What is the story on this? And I can't do the happy clappy. I think, I think God might object to being patronized and lovely. Brilliant. Isn't he brilliant?

Now you figure God already knows.

I think God knows. But I'll tell you what, I'm into worship and I do believe in worship and the worship, even if it starts with brilliant, if you get to the brilliance. The brilliance, ooh, well, that's something. So anyway, we, we're kind of going, we're believing these people. Maybe we're wrong. And Edge is feeling it really badly. He's in a kind of agony, actually. And he rings me up and he says, I don't think I can resolve this. And so I said, well, yeah, I'm having some problems with this too. I want to be useful. I want to be useful in my life. I want my life to add up to something and I want our life to add up to something. I want to be useful to the world. The world is, you know, fucked. They didn't like you saying fucked, but that's how we spoke. But I said, okay, we'll agree, I'll leave. And then Larry was like the same. And then Adam again, all he ever wanted. And he's like, oh, God. And Adam had introduced us to a quite posh manager called Paul McGuinness. And we just had success with our first album called Boy and, and, and we'd go and tell him that it was all over. So he was sitting there and we walked in and Paul looked over. So you, you've been speaking to God. And we're like, yeah, yeah. And God has told you that you don't want to be in the band again? You want to break up the band? Well, in a manner of speaking, yes. Okay, so you've been speaking to God and he doesn't want you being a band. And, and how's God on legal contracts? Because I've signed a legal contract here. And we were just, you know, just completely. Oh, maybe we didn't hear that right. And anyway, so we went back on the road and we. We played the October tour and it was pretty special. But Edge still wasn't resolved. And he was trying to figure out how could we make our music not utility, but useful in the more profound sense. And Ali and I got married and I went away to Jamaica. Chris Blackwell gave us Goldeneye, this place that he. And we were like, whoa. We didn't have much cash to speak on, so this was incredible. And this was the land of Bob Marley. And Bob Marley played a role in our life, though I would never meet him. And here's what it was. Edge, whilst we're away, starts to work on a song that will really explain, will solve the problem. And the song was called Sunday, Bloody Sunday. And he started off, but if you hear it, you'll hear the Jamaican influence. I can't believe the news today I can't close my eyes all on that way how long. And you realize that the reason why Chris Blackwell didn't throw us off Island Records because we'd made a mad religious album, wasn't mad at all, but people were calling it mad. He was used to dealing with Bob Marley. And Bob Marley wanted to sing to God. Bob Marley wanted to sing to girls. Bob Marley wanted to sing to the world around him and protest it. So there it was, a three chord strand that became U2. And that started with Edge. Sunday Bliss Sunday.

[David Remnick]

Bono speaking live at the New Yorker Festival. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour.

[Bono]

And we'll continue in a moment.

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[Bono]

Have people really thought about the fact.

That, you know, with genetic testing we're.

[David Remnick]

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[David Remnick]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick and I'm speaking with Bono, the lead singer of YouTube. He's out with a new documentary on Apple plus called Bono Stories of Surrender. One of the things I wanted to ask about was one of U2's earliest hits, Sunday Bloody Sunday. The lyrics refer to a 1972 massacre in northern Ireland when protesters were killed by British soldiers.

[Bono]

Broken bottles under children's feet.

[David Remnick]

But Bono insists on the song's non sectarian message. He says it was a condemnation of violence on all sides of the conflict.

[Bono]

It's such an interesting song in the, in the, in in so many ways, such a wonderful song. And it was also something that was a little complicated for you politically for, for the public, you would say. You described it once as for Unionists it was a betrayal. For nationalists, it was an ad campaign. What was the political line that you were trying to tread with Sunday Bloody Sunday?

I mean, yeah, it was an odd song because we were trying to contrast this bloody event in Irish history with Christ on the cross and the kind of stupidity of religious violence. And, you know, but we're like 22 and feeling this in our country. And at first people got excited some of the. More the Republicans were like putting up the war album and the posters around Good man. And then. And the Unionists were like, ooh. And then they swapped and was like, no, they're not for the war. And it was like, oh. And we didn't know which side we were on. And then I started to dismantle the Irish flag on stage. I would tear off the gold and then tear off the green and just hold up the white. And these were sort of dramatic acts I learned from, I suppose, studying John Lennon, whatever. But these were powerful acts. And then through reading about the civil rights in these United States and reading about Dr. King, then I started to understand more about non violence. And we went into New Year's Day, we went into a whole. This vein, just a very rich vein in songwriting. But it did in Dublin. There was. And not in Dublin, but around the country. Suddenly it wasn't as. It just wasn't as cool to be into U2. We weren't so much the national team in certain areas. But you.

You would preface the song and performance by saying, this is not a rebel song. Was that alienating? To some, yes. How did you feel it? How did that alienation or rejection or opposition make itself known?

I. I remember a being in a. In a car coming out of one of our concerts in Croke park and our car was surrounded and. And I just dismantled the flag and there was some angry people around the car and they were trying to smash the window where Ali was sitting with me. And I remember thinking that was, wow. And you feel the pain of these people Now I understand the real pain people were in and I wish not to make light of it. I think you can die for your ideals, but you shouldn't kill for them, if at all. But I understand that these people felt they were at a war and that I had betrayed them and our band was betraying them.

You recently appeared, as you do so often in these situations, in Kyiv, in Ukraine.

Oh, yeah.

And I saw you, I believe you were in a metro station, a subway station, and met with politicians. What do you find yourself achieving when you do that? Tell me about your experience in Ukraine.

So it goes back to Sunday, Bloody Sunday. It goes back to. Charity is a thing that we all are part of. But justice is something that really is a reason for me to get out of bed. And the injustice of what's happening in Ukraine was so hard to take, that we just wanted people to know that we were with them. And I'D met President Zelenskyy before he was president. Met him in Ukraine. He's a great storyteller. I mean, you know this. And he's an actor. He's one of us. You know what I mean? Yermak, his. His right hand is a movie, film producer. They're storytellers. They need to get their story out, which is why they're doing all this media, because they know if they disappear from your phones, if they disappear from your screens, then they mightn't get the money from the United States. So when President Zelensky asked us to go, I had to go. And Edge wanted to go. And there was lots of musicians. Remember, Bob Gelder wanted to go. We all wanted to go. But in the end it was the two of us busking in a sort of in a subway. But you know what's interesting? When I saw back, they licit really well, I'm like, they're in a war. And they're like, no, we know what to do here. To make this look Bono, you need to look good. You're going today. It's like, what? And these are incredible people and they love freedom and they love it so much, they're ready to lay down their life for freedom. And we who live in freedom should really, really remember not to fall asleep in ours.

Fano, I should say. I came here several hours ago and people had been lined up outside and they were very eager to ask you questions. And one that I kept hearing was, did you find writing a memoir therapeutic in any way? What was the motivation to do so?

The gift it gave me was time on my own. And it turns out I. I need more time on my own. And it, it changed me, actually. I don't know if it's changed me for. Well, I don't go out as much. And also I'm such a shy typist that when I talk, I talk too quickly and I sort of throw the paint at the canvas when I'm typing. I have to slow down my thoughts and they make more sense of me and I make more sense of them.

This is a wonderful question. You and Ali recently celebrated 40 years of marriage.

[David Remnick]

He's here tonight.

[Bono]

This is great. This is terrific. An Irish newlywed in the audience asks, what's the secret?

A newlywed in the audience. It is, it is. It is quite. It's quite mad getting married.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, I know.

[Bono]

There's a grand madness about it. And there's some. Something. There's something about that. And knowing that you're going against the Odds. But I would say, if you're asking me seriously, that friendship is. Friendship can outpace romantic love sometimes. And, you know, friendship is what myself and Ali have. When you have romantic love and friendship, that's really something special. But I don't want to give you the impression that everything was all easy for us, but any time either of us got lost, the other would get. Would be there to get the other one home. And. And I'm so grateful. And it was brilliant. When we got to 40 and we went, let's not fuck this up now. I mean, you know, a related question.

The other relationship that's 40 years old, we just had the documentary, the Get Back documentary. We watched the Beatles in rehearsal.

Brilliant.

And anybody who was in a band said, it's amazing. They're so creative, they're getting along so well. And then anybody else who's not in a band thought they hate each other.

They're not getting along at all.

When you watched that documentary, how did you relate it to your 40 years in the band? This band has outlasted the Beatles by a factor of four.

Yeah, I couldn't believe it. Get Back. If you haven't seen it. First of all, who knew the Beatles invented reality tv? That was mad. Like, they had little, you know, there was. They had little camera, little microphones in the flower pots. And they're over there, John's talking like this, and they're giving out walking now and they wired. So they invented reality tv. Second thing was like watching Jesus like on the, you know, the Beatitudes or something. And it was, you know, you could imagine. It's like drafting the Beatitude. And the weak will inherit the earth and the meek will inherit the earth. No, no. You know, you could see them actually doing it. I couldn't believe it. And. But yeah, you could feel the tension. It's very hard for males and it gets harder to move around each other the older you get. But males are funny, especially. I think women are better at this. But, you know, I could see it in the Beatles. And I should tell you just a tiny little story that Paul told me, which is brilliant. Like, I hang out with Paul all the time. I don't. But let me tell you, when I do, I pay attention because it's like hanging out with Johann Sebastian Bach. I would carry his guitar case and no question about it, but he was talking about his relationship and he says, you know, it could be really overbearing, I realize. And he says, you know, I was going at John one day. It was going at him, you know, and he just looked up and actually he was wearing glasses just like you. No kidding. And, and he just did this. He went, hey, Paul, it's just me, it's John, it's only me, it's John. And he said, trying to calm me down, he was. And, but bands go at each other and we, you know. But again, it's friendship. It has to be friendship. And that's the thing that has kept you two together.

You did something very unusual for a band in that you split everything up financially, equally.

What a fool. What a fool. Didn't think you would adult anything. Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's the best thing ever. And those songs are made what they are because of edge. Adam and Larry and, and our manager used to say to us, you know, it's not musical differences that break up most bands. It's the moolah. And he said, get that right. And another crackers like, don't be the band who looks too stupid to enjoy being at number one. Smile, for God's sake.

[David Remnick]

That's Bono speaking at the New Yorker Festival in 2022. This year's festival, which takes place in October, will celebrate the magazine's hundredth anniversary. I hope you'll join us for a weekend of live conversation, musical performances, screenings, and much more. You can read more about it at festival.new yorker.com that's the new Yorker Radio Hour for today. Thanks so much for listening. See you next time.

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Louis Mitchell. This episode was produced by Max Balton, Adam Howard, David Krasnow, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell, Jared Paul and Ursula Sommer, with guidance from Emily Bottin and assistance from Michael May, David Gable, Alex Parish, Victor Gwan and Alejandra Deckett. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Tsarina Endowment Fund.

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[Bono]

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