Podcast Summary: War and Peace and Pandemic, and Roger Angell on Baseball Seasons Past

Podcast: The New Yorker Radio Hour
Host: David Remnick
Guests: Ian Lee, Josh Rothman, Roger Angell
Date: April 14, 2020
Episode Overview:
This episode explores how classic literature and beloved pastimes can bring comfort and connection in times of turmoil. The first half features writer and professor Ian Lee discussing her community reading project, "Tolstoy Together," launched during the pandemic, and the profound resonance of War and Peace. The second half is a wide-ranging, intimate conversation between David Remnick and legendary baseball writer Roger Angell, reflecting on his career, writing, aging, and the lost baseball season.

1. Reading War and Peace During a Pandemic: Ian Lee and “Tolstoy Together”

Setting the Scene

• Ian Lee, a Princeton creative writing professor and frequent New Yorker contributor, started rereading War and Peace at the onset of the coronavirus lockdown.
• The project “Tolstoy Together” quickly grew from a small book club to a global communal read attracting thousands of participants.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why War and Peace?

• War and Peace is a substantial, structured book that offers a sense of stability amid chaos.
  • Ian Lee (01:41):
    “War and Peace has this reliable structure. Peace and War and Peace and War. I feel like I can just put my trust into Tolstoy’s words... It has that kind of support for a mind.”

A Global Reading Community

• The project went viral; an estimated 3,000 participants from 20 countries joined, using Twitter and Instagram to share thoughts and questions.

  • Ian Lee (02:51):
    “Our estimate is on and off maybe about 3,000 people... probably 20 countries, all the continents except Antarctica.”

• The community reads 12-15 pages per day, and Ian Lee kick-starts daily discussions with three thoughts on social media.

  • Ian Lee (03:08):
    “At the beginning of the day, I would post three thoughts from me. This happened on Twitter and Instagram. And then for the rest of the day, people would chime in... it’s quite like a big party.”

The Relevance of Tolstoy in Crisis

• Parallels are drawn between the anxieties of the pandemic and the uncertainties of Tolstoy’s world.

  • Ian Lee (00:53):
    “This is the only time I thought, oh, you know, a cough really means something. And these people really should be careful about life.”

• The reading experience offers an escape and a source of comfort.

  • Ian Lee (10:26):
    “There’s so much comfort... if they can read slowly, 12–15 pages and they all talk... it just offers something for people to talk about other than what’s happening outside.”

The Enduring Vibrancy of War and Peace

• The book’s energy and emotional range are highlighted, countering its ‘dull’ reputation.

  • Ian Lee (06:06):
    “I love a lot of books, but I never get bored reading War and Peace. Every page there’s something new... something that engages my curiosity or something makes me laugh.”

• A reading of a passage illustrates Tolstoy’s observational power and beauty:

  • Ian Lee (06:37):
    “‘At the bend of the Danube, one could see boats and an island and a castle... then all of a sudden we actually saw the French patrols just inside. You know, I think he... Tolstoy certainly is the best seer, and he sees everything.’”

Life Goes On—Even in Wartime

• Life’s continuity through crisis is a major theme, resonating in both Tolstoy and the present.
  • Josh Rothman (07:43):
    “Even though the war is happening, people still are falling in love. They’re singing songs, they’re living in nature.”
  • Ian Lee (09:03):
    “People are still living their lives during that war.”

2. Roger Angell on Baseball, Writing, and Aging

The Loss of Baseball and Its Meaning

• David Remnick laments the absence of baseball during the pandemic, calling it “a bitter pill... the deprivation of a really beautiful distraction.”
  • David Remnick (12:00):
    “Not the worst casualty of this pandemic by far. But for a fan, the loss of baseball is a bitter pill, the deprivation of a really beautiful distraction.”

Roger Angell’s Career & Baseball Writing

The Hall of Fame Moment and Early Anxieties

• Roger Angell (at age 99) reflects on his Hall of Fame induction and early nervousness in covering baseball.

  • Roger Angell (13:00):
    “...it always goes back to baseball itself, which turned out to be so familiar and so startling, so spacious and exacting, so easy looking and so heartbreakingly difficult...”

  • Roger Angell (14:03):
    “I approached it with sheer terror. I didn’t know what I was doing... I was very self-conscious talking to the players, really quite scared.”

Finding a Voice: The Fan’s Perspective

• Angell felt like an outsider in the press box, so he began by writing as a fan in the stands—a perspective that set his writing apart.
  • Roger Angell (15:14):
    “I could sit in the stands and be a fan and also be a writer.”

The Art of Sportswriting

• Angell rejects sentimentality and tough-guy posturing; his style is relaxed yet attentive.
  • David Remnick (15:22):
    “You have a tone of a happy man... someone just in love with what he’s watching.”
  • Roger Angell (15:48):
    “It developed over the years. I didn’t really plan it in advance. It was just—some kind of me.”

Changes in Clubhouse Culture

• Over the decades, direct and candid conversations with players became rarer as athletes grew more distant.
  • Roger Angell (17:00):
    “When I got over 80, it was impossible for me to talk to players, really, because they would say sir... the habit of talking openly as a person, not as a very well paid celebrity... is pretty well gone.”

Memorable Anecdotes

• Angell finds gold in the small moments, like a coach’s poetic remark about George Brett’s hitting.
  • Roger Angell (17:27):
    “‘Everything that George hits goes through the infield like a stream of milk.’”

A Life at The New Yorker

Literary Heritage

• Angell reflects on growing up amidst magazine galleys, his mother (editor Katherine White), and his stepfather, E.B. White.

  • Roger Angell (18:50):
    “My mother and stepfather’s house was full of galleys and pencils... conversation about the magazine and about Harold Ross and about the writers of the day.”

• He shares editing stories—like Harold Ross’s obsession with clarity and commas—with humor.

  • Roger Angell (20:25):
    “Ross... was not classically or much educated, but loved clearness... He always had about 20 or 30 queries about every piece of copy.”

On Writing, Memory, and Aging

Writing in Old Age

• Angell acknowledges the challenges of physical decline but continues blogging and shorter writing.

  • Roger Angell (21:03):
    “I’m aware of my waning powers... but I’m not writing long pieces... I’m very happy to fall back and do posts and blogs.”

• He likens blog-writing to making a paper airplane—brief, ephemeral, and joyful.

  • Roger Angell (21:55):
    “It’s sort of like making a paper airplane... and that’s like a blog.”

The Personal Essays: Loss and Renewal

• Angell discusses his essay collection This Old Man, which weaves humor with frankness about aging and loss.

  • Roger Angell (23:40):
    “I describe some of the everyday debilities of age and I didn’t quite know what I was doing, but I knew that loss was at the middle of this...”

• He shares powerful lines about grief, referencing the poet Kenneth Koch (“les mort ven vite”—the dead go quickly) and the universal weight of loss as we age.

  • Roger Angell (24:44):
    “Ed Hirsch... says that anybody over the age of 65 has a 100 pound bag of cement of loss on his shoulders.”

• Yet, there is also the discovery of new love late in life; Angell insists on nature’s ongoing vitality.

  • Roger Angell (26:40):
    “Old people are like everyone else. We need connection. We need love.”

• On writers revisiting the same material, Angell observes how memory and life stories recur, and how writing can release those memories.

  • Roger Angell (29:24):
    “Once I put them down and get them published, I don’t think about them anymore. It goes away.”

The Ongoing Writing Life

• Angell considers, but resists, the idea of retiring from writing.
  • Roger Angell (30:04):
    “No, I don’t want to stop. I like to have it still going on a little bit. And then this way, once again, I think I’m extremely lucky. I’m 95 and still writing. My goodness.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ian Lee (01:41):
  “I feel like I can just put my trust into Tolstoy’s words... It has that kind of support for a mind.”
• Roger Angell (13:00):
  “Baseball itself, which turned out to be so familiar and so startling, so spacious and exacting, so easy looking and so heartbreakingly difficult...”
• Josh Rothman (07:43):
  “Even though the war is happening, people still are falling in love. They’re singing songs, they’re living in nature.”
• Roger Angell (24:44):
  “Anybody over the age of 65 has a 100 pound bag of cement of loss on his shoulders.”
• Roger Angell (26:40):
  “Old people are like everyone else. We need connection. We need love.”

Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:10: Introduction to Ian Lee and the context for reading War and Peace
• 01:17: Launch and growth of “Tolstoy Together”
• 03:08: How the group read and discussed the book across social media
• 06:06: The enduring energy of War and Peace
• 07:43: Discussion of life’s continuity in crisis
• 13:00: Excerpt of Roger Angell’s Hall of Fame speech
• 14:03: Angell’s early anxieties about baseball writing
• 15:14: Writing from the fan’s perspective
• 17:27: Memorable anecdote about George Brett
• 18:50: Reminiscence about The New Yorker’s editorial legacy
• 21:03: Reflections on aging and continued writing
• 23:40: Discussion of loss, grief, and humor
• 26:40: The persistence of love and human connection in old age
• 29:24: Writing, memory, and letting go

Episode Takeaways

• Literature and art—whether Tolstoy’s novels or the ritual of baseball—provide essential stability, comfort, and connection during times of crisis.
• Communal engagement with classic works can offer meaningful distraction and mitigate anxiety.
• The act of writing, like memory, is an ongoing process shaped by loss, love, and the desire for connection, persisting even into extreme old age.
• Roger Angell’s wisdom and humor, combined with Ian Lee’s initiative, illustrate how storytelling and dialogue sustain us, especially in uncertain times.