The New Yorker Radio Hour: What Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., Doesn’t Understand About Autism

Release Date: June 6, 2025
Host: David Remnick
Produced by WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour, host David Remnick delves into the controversial assertions made by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the newly appointed Secretary of Health and Human Services. Kennedy has positioned himself at the forefront of the ongoing debate linking vaccines to autism—a theory long discredited by the scientific community. Remnick engages with Dr. Alicia Halladay, Chief Science Officer of the Autism Science Foundation, to unpack the complexities surrounding autism research and the political ramifications of Kennedy's claims.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s Assertions on Autism

From the outset, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. sets a provocative tone:

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [00:53]: "When you hear 10,000, it was 1 in 10,000, and now it's 1 in 31 for autism. I think that's just a terrible thing. It has to be. Something on the outside has to be artificially induced. Has to be."

Kennedy's statement underscores a dramatic increase in autism prevalence, which he attributes to external, artificially induced factors. As the episode unfolds, it's revealed that Kennedy’s stance centers on the discredited notion that vaccines are responsible for the surge in autism rates.

The Discredited Vaccine-Autism Link

David Remnick addresses Kennedy's conspiracy theory:

David Remnick [01:08]: "Donald Trump's operating procedure involves dismissing expertise of all kinds... But when he made an alliance with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. He brought one particular conspiracy theory into the center of the MAGA agenda, the idea that vaccines are responsible for the rise in autism rates."

Kennedy’s claims have significantly influenced public perception, with surveys indicating that up to one in four Americans now believe vaccines are linked to autism. This belief persists despite overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary.

Interview with Dr. Alicia Halladay

Dr. Alicia Halladay shares her extensive background in autism research and her personal connection to the subject:

Dr. Alicia Halladay [03:47]: "As a scientist, yes. And actually studying whether or not vaccines did cause autism back in 1999. And then I got into nonprofit and had two twin girls in 2010, and one of them was diagnosed with autism in 2013."

Halladay emphasizes the complexity of autism, highlighting that it is a spectrum disorder with varying degrees of severity and manifestations. She critiques the oversimplification of autism as a singular condition caused by vaccines.

Understanding the Autism Spectrum

Halladay elaborates on the evolution of autism terminology and the importance of nuanced language:

Dr. Alicia Halladay [05:19]: "Prior to 2007, terms like Asperger's and PDD nos were used to designate different levels of functioning. Now, it's all under autism spectrum disorder."

She discusses the shift towards identity-first language ("I am autistic") versus person-first language ("person with autism"), reflecting differing perspectives within the autism community.

RFK Jr.'s Blanket Statements on Autism

Kennedy's recent statements have caused significant concern:

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [11:01]: "These are kids who will never pay taxes, they'll never hold a job, they'll never play baseball, they'll never write a poem, they'll never go out on a date."

Dr. Halladay critiques these sweeping generalizations:

Dr. Alicia Halladay [11:28]: "When he makes these broad generalizations... it can be misleading... and offend individuals across the spectrum."

Her analysis underscores the diversity within the autism spectrum, challenging Kennedy’s monolithic portrayal of individuals with autism.

The Legacy of Andrew Wakefield and Thimerosal

A significant portion of the episode revisits the origins of the vaccine-autism myth, centered around Andrew Wakefield's discredited study:

Dr. Alicia Halladay [15:53]: "The Lancet has apologized many times... Wakefield has had his license revoked."

Wakefield's research erroneously linked the mercury-containing preservative thimerosal in vaccines to autism, a claim thoroughly debunked by subsequent studies. Despite retractions and official apologies, Wakefield's legacy persists, fueling ongoing vaccine hesitancy.

Kennedy's Upcoming Study and Its Implications

Kennedy has promised to unveil the "cause" of autism by September:

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [19:22]: "We've launched a massive testing and research effort that's going to involve hundreds of scientists from around the world."

Dr. Halladay expresses skepticism about the feasibility and transparency of this study:

Dr. Alicia Halladay [20:43]: "He has no formal training... He's been running this children's health defense fund... He's staked his career on whether or not vaccines cause autism."

She questions the credibility of using existing data to conclusively determine autism's causes within such a short timeframe, noting:

Dr. Alicia Halladay [21:10]: "These combination of things doesn't always present as the same thing in every person."

The Future of Autism Research

Dr. Halladay advocates for a comprehensive approach to autism research:

Dr. Alicia Halladay [22:32]: "We know that the way that these brain cells connect to each other is altered. It can be influenced by genetics and the environment... The core of autism is connection differences in the brain."

She warns against the narrow focus on vaccines, emphasizing the multifaceted nature of autism and the importance of exploring genetic and diverse environmental factors.

Concerns Over Political Influence and Misinformation

Halladay voices her fears regarding the intersection of politics and autism research:

Dr. Alicia Halladay [25:52]: "What I'm afraid of is that we continue down this vaccine road... It's a big concern for me is that people lull into a false sense of security, thinking that there's one thing that they should have done that they did differently..."

She highlights the tangible dangers of misinformation, including reduced vaccination rates leading to outbreaks of preventable diseases and neglect of essential autism services.

Conclusion

David Remnick wraps up the episode by reinforcing the critical need for evidence-based approaches to autism research:

David Remnick [31:00]: "Alicia Halladay is chief science officer of the Autism Science Foundation. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. See you next time."

The conversation serves as a cautionary tale about the dangers of politicizing scientific issues and the profound impact misinformation can have on vulnerable populations.

Key Takeaways

• Autism is a Spectrum: Autism varies widely among individuals, necessitating personalized approaches rather than blanket statements.

• Debunked Theories Persist: Despite overwhelming evidence against the vaccine-autism link, conspiracy theories continue to influence public opinion.

• Political Ramifications: The appointment of figures like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to influential positions can legitimize and propagate harmful misinformation.

• Comprehensive Research Needed: Autism research must consider multiple genetic and environmental factors to understand its complexity fully.

• Impact of Misinformation: Misinformation can lead to public health risks and inadequate support for those with autism and their families.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [00:53]: "When you hear 10,000, it was 1 in 10,000, and now it's 1 in 31 for autism. I think that's just a terrible thing. It has to be. Something on the outside has to be artificially induced. Has to be."

• Dr. Alicia Halladay [03:47]: "As a scientist, yes. And actually studying whether or not vaccines did cause autism back in 1999..."

• Dr. Alicia Halladay [05:19]: "...it's all under autism spectrum disorder. So if you were, however, diagnosed with Asperger's... people want to keep that term."

• Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [11:01]: "These are kids who will never pay taxes, they'll never hold a job, they'll never play baseball, they'll never write a poem, they'll never go out on a date."

• Dr. Alicia Halladay [15:53]: "The Lancet has apologized many times... Wakefield has had his license revoked."

• Dr. Alicia Halladay [22:32]: "What we know about autism is that the way that these brain cells connect to each other is altered..."

This episode underscores the critical importance of relying on credible scientific research over unproven theories, especially when public health and the well-being of individuals are at stake.