With “The Warriors,” Lin-Manuel Miranda Takes on Another New York Story

Summary

The New Yorker Radio Hour: Lin-Manuel Miranda and Issa Davis Reimagine "The Warriors"

Episode Title: With “The Warriors,” Lin-Manuel Miranda Takes on Another New York Story
Release Date: October 18, 2024
Host: David Remnick
Guests: Lin-Manuel Miranda and Issa Davis

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Introduction

In this captivating episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour, host David Remnick engages in an insightful dialogue with Lin-Manuel Miranda, renowned for his groundbreaking musical Hamilton, and Pulitzer Prize finalist Issa Davis. The duo delves into their ambitious new project: a concept album titled "The Warriors," which reimagines the 1979 cult classic film as a rich, diverse song cycle. This album serves both as a homage to the original film and a fresh narrative infused with modern themes and eclectic musical influences.

The Concept Behind "The Warriors"

Lin-Manuel Miranda introduces the project as a "love letter" to the original film, transforming its action-driven storyline into a musically driven narrative. Unlike traditional musicals, "The Warriors" is designed to exist solely as a record, offering listeners an immersive experience without the constraints of stage or screen adaptations.

Lin-Manuel Miranda [03:35]: “We have written 26 songs basically musicalizing this story.”

Issa Davis elaborates on their creative vision, emphasizing the album's dual homage to both the film and the cultural tapestry of 1970s New York.

Mythic Inspirations and New York Specificity

David Remnick prompts the guests to discuss the origins of "The Warriors," drawing parallels to the ancient text Anabasis by Xenophon—a narrative about soldiers striving to return home through hostile territory.

Issa Davis [04:57]: “It's Homeric. And what I loved about the movie was it was filled with the specificity of the New York I was growing up in.”

This blend of the mythic and the specific allows "The Warriors" to resonate deeply with listeners familiar with New York’s multifaceted landscape while maintaining a universal narrative of struggle and resilience.

Collaborations and Musical Diversity

Miranda and Davis assembled a stellar lineup of collaborators, including legends like Lauryn Hill, Nas, Marc Anthony, Ghostface Killah, RZA, and Busta Rhymes. Each artist brings a unique flavor, representing different boroughs of New York City and contributing to the album’s rich musical diversity.

Issa Davis [06:29]: “We have Chris Rivers playing the Bronx, Nas representing Queens, Cam'ron for Manhattan, Ghostface and RZA from Staten Island, and Busta Rhymes for Brooklyn.”

The album weaves various genres—salsa, rock, R&B, metal—reflecting the eclectic musical scene of 1970s New York.

Lin-Manuel Miranda [09:48]: “We just started giving each other playlists and really wanted to go after the diversity of genre.”

Addressing Modern Issues: Gender, Sexism, and Homophobia

One of the album's standout features is its deliberate gender swap, transforming the Warriors into a femme gang led by a female Cyrus. This creative choice allows Miranda and Davis to tackle themes of sexism and homophobia, presenting a narrative of women navigating and overcoming societal obstacles.

Lin-Manuel Miranda [14:14]: “It's her. Or, you know, nobody. You know, we just had to have her.”

Issa Davis reflects on how this approach not only modernizes the story but also pays tribute to the pivotal role of women in the cultural origins of hip-hop.

The Creative Process and Lauryn Hill's Involvement

The album's creation was marked by meticulous collaboration, particularly with Lauryn Hill, who brought unparalleled depth to the character of Cyrus. Their process was largely remote, relying on email exchanges and virtual collaborations, which added a layer of spontaneity and authenticity to the final product.

Issa Davis [24:35]: “She had created these additional choral arrangements with background vocalists that she had added on top of what we had sent her. Just unbidden.”

Despite logistical challenges, Lauryn Hill's contribution elevated the album, adding layers of complexity and emotion that might not have been possible otherwise.

Lin-Manuel Miranda [22:32]: “She is truly one of the greatest MCs and greatest singers that ever graced this planet.”

Reception and Future Plans

The album has been designed to stand on its own, allowing both fans of the original film and newcomers to appreciate its narrative and musical intricacies. Miranda and Davis express confidence that "The Warriors" will inspire listeners to revisit the film while also carving out its own unique space in the musical landscape.

Issa Davis [21:20]: “We carved out our own lane as a companion piece.”

While there are no immediate plans for a stage or film adaptation, the potential for such expansions remains open, hinting at future possibilities without detracting from the album's standalone strength.

Conclusion

Lin-Manuel Miranda and Issa Davis have successfully transformed a beloved cult classic into a dynamic and multifaceted musical experience. "The Warriors" not only honors the original film but also redefines it through contemporary lenses, addressing enduring social issues and celebrating the rich cultural heritage of New York City. This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour offers a deep dive into their creative journey, highlighting the passion and innovation that define their work.

David Remnick [31:21]: “It's a wonderful thing and I really appreciate you being here. Thanks so much.”

Listeners are left with an appreciation for the artistic endeavor behind "The Warriors," eager to explore the album's melodies and narratives that breathe new life into a timeless story.

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Notable Quotes:

• Issa Davis [04:57]: “It's Homeric. And what I loved about the movie was it was filled with the specificity of the New York I was growing up in.”

• Lin-Manuel Miranda [14:14]: “It's her. Or, you know, nobody. You know, we just had to have her.”

• Issa Davis [21:20]: “We carved out our own lane as a companion piece.”

• Lin-Manuel Miranda [22:32]: “She is truly one of the greatest MCs and greatest singers that ever graced this planet.”

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Timestamps Reference:

• Introduction and Concept: [01:35] – [07:06]
• Mythic Inspirations: [04:57] – [09:48]
• Collaborations: [06:29] – [16:00]
• Addressing Modern Issues: [14:14] – [16:00]
• Creative Process: [22:12] – [31:21]

Transcript

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[Lin Manuel Miranda]

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[Justin Wines Announcer]

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[Issa Davis]

Listener Supported WNYC Studios.

[David Remnick]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker.

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour and I'm David Remnick. Since the blockbuster success of his musical Hamilton, Lin Manuel Miranda has been more than a little busy. He's acting, directing, composing for Disney projects, including the upcoming Lion King movie. But his new project is kind of a throwback in the best possible sense. It's a concept album.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Yeah, right.

[Issa Davis]

Refs.

[David Remnick]

And what he's done is reimagine a film, the 1979 cult classic the warriors, which I loved back in the day. And he's re envisioned it as a song cycle. To do it, Miranda brought together a cast of legends, including Lauryn Hill, Nas, Marc Anthony, members of Wu Tang, and many more. To be clear, the warriors wasn't originally a musical, though it's got a great soundtrack. It's an action movie about a gang that's fighting their way through New York City. And Miranda tells the story and song along with his writing partner, the actor and playwright Issa Davis. Hey, how are you?

[Issa Davis]

Hello.

[David Remnick]

Welcome. Nice to see you.

[Issa Davis]

How are you? Good to see you.

[David Remnick]

So in 1979, the warriors comes out. I saw it then. Yeah, you guys saw it when?

[Issa Davis]

I saw it probably around 1984. That's respectable. A friend's older brother had the VHS.

[David Remnick]

Okay.

[Chris Morocco]

Yes.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

And I saw it in January of 2022.

[David Remnick]

More recently.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Yes.

[David Remnick]

Well, for those folks who don't know the story, why don't you tell us what the story is?

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Yeah.

[David Remnick]

Just kind of set things up, since.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

It'S something that's fresher for me. For those of you who don't know, when I saw it in January 2022, I was really taken by this group of, you know, multicultural men in the film who are called up to the Bronx to Van Cortlandt park for a truce meeting, a peace meeting. That. Yes, that. Yes. The music by Barry Dvorjan. Yes. That amazing synth. Ye. And everyone. Everyone around the city, not just this one gang from Coney, but all these gangs and all these amazing outfits go up to Van Cortlandt park, and here, Cyrus give this amazing speech about how to create peace with all of the gangs in the city. Ceasing fire, stopping to fight. Nobody is wasting nobody. That is a miracle. And miracles is the way things ought to be.

[Alexis Ohanian]

Digging.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Can you dig in? And then Cyrus is assassinated. The person who assassinates Cyrus blames the warriors for doing so. And then they have.

[David Remnick]

The warriors are.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

The warriors are a gang from Coney island, and they have to fight their way from the Bronx all the way back down to Coney island in the course of the film.

[Issa Davis]

Yeah, but then the tale is an old tale. Like, it's. Saul Urich, who wrote the novel the movie's based on, based it on the Anabasis, which is a soldier's account of trying to get back home from war.

[David Remnick]

Tell us about Anabasis, Lin Manuel the Greek sourcing for this novel from 1965 by Saul Urich.

[Issa Davis]

Yeah, I mean, it's this mythic story. It's a story about these soldiers who are fighting their way through enemy territory to get back home. Like, it doesn't get more clear than that as a plot line. It's Homeric. And what I loved about the movie was it was filled in with the specificity of the New York I was growing up in. I remember, you know, my parents. When I was born, my parents lived in NYU housing. They were NYU grad students. And so I still went to nursery school down in the Village, even though we had moved all the way up to northern Manhattan. So I would take the A train from West 4th street to 200th Street.

[David Remnick]

You were living in the Heights and then.

[Issa Davis]

Yeah, yeah. And commuting from the Village for nursery school. And I remember Just tracing the arc of the Warriors. And I knew I lived closer to where Cyrus spoke than to where Coney island was. And so there's this mix of the mythic and the specific. I mean, when I watch this, I love seeing the New York I grew up in. I love seeing Grace Papaya at 72nd Street. I love seeing the Wonder Wheel still there. Still, I love seeing the Wonder Wheel at the top of the movie. And so, you know, it really created my first mental map of the New York I hadn't seen yet growing up at the top of Manhattan. And we've written 26 songs basically musicalizing this story. The opening song, we decided to have an emcee from each borough represent that borough.

[David Remnick]

Who do you got?

[Issa Davis]

So we have Chris Rivers, who is, you know, an incredible mc and also, you know, son of the legendary Big Punisher, the first Puerto Rican rapper to go platinum and one of my MC heroes. He plays the Bronx. We have Nas representing Queens.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

We have also executive produces the album.

[Issa Davis]

Yes, because as much as I love warriors, he loves it twice as much. We have cam'ron representing Manhattan. We have, of course, Ghostface and RZA from the Wu Tang Clan representing Staten island, as they have for so many. And then we have Busta Rhymes representing Brooklyn and introducing the warriors, since that's their homeborough.

[David Remnick]

So, Lin Manuel, the whole wide world knows you for Hamilton, but of course, before that is in the Heights. And I wonder how in the Heights relates to the warriors in your mind, either just thematically and in your kind of creative universe.

[Issa Davis]

Yeah, well, I think I could write about New York for the rest of my life and never get bored because there are so many New Yorks inside New York, and, you know, that given the publication you work for. But, you know, in the Heights was my first musical. I started writing in college. It was the classic. Write what? You know, I thought I live in the most musical neighborhood I've ever been in, so that seemed like a great place to set a musical. And then imagine my surprise after reading Ron Chernow's book.

[David Remnick]

Chernow's biography of Hamilton.

[Issa Davis]

Yeah, so much of it took place in New York that, like, oh, Burr lived on 162nd street for a year and that, you know, there was a cabinet meeting in Washington Heights before, you know, the Capitol relocated to Philly and then dc. The fact that the entire story was just a few layers of topsoil underneath the city I'd grown up in. And then with warriors, it was a chance to go to a totally different era. And the fun for Us in crafting the score was there's the score that the movie gives us, which is this amazing synth rock score that we nod to many times. But there's also all these other subcultures happening in New York in the 70s.

[David Remnick]

Do talk about the music in the original score of the warriors, because most of our listeners will not recall it or know it.

[Issa Davis]

Yeah, no, I mean, it's very particular, an incredibly like of its time synth intro. But you've also got this beautiful rock song in the last scene by Joe Walsh called In the City. And uh huh.

[David Remnick]

I forgot that Joe Walsh was on that soundtrack.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Yeah, yeah, the finale.

[Issa Davis]

Wow.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

When they're walking down the Strand, Coney.

[Issa Davis]

Island, they've made it to the sea.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Mm.

[Issa Davis]

And so, you know, but again, like for us, New York in the late 70s was a musical playground. So, you know, there's a. There's a gang in the South Bronx in the movie called the turnable ACs. In the movie, they're skinheads. In the 70s in New York, Fania was revolutionizing salsa music. And all those musicians like, lived in the South Bronx. Hector Lavo and Willy Colon and you know, it's such a South Bronx story. So we took the license to write like a salsa tune for that gang and basically made New York our musical playground.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Warriors, you want to run? I mean, that was really the first thing that we did as collaborators was we just started giving each other playlists and, you know, really wanted to go after the diversity of genre. And so on the album we see all of the songs that, you know, sort of were inspired by what our playlists were. So, you know, we've got this salsa tune and we've got, you know, rock and we've got R and B and then we have metal that shows up there as well. And something that was really important to us as well was having Shanti, who is our DJ in the movie. It was Lynne Thigpen who played the DJ and kind of kept track of everything. Yeah. Hey, Bumpers. I know. It's so perfect to do that in here on the mic in the studio.

[David Remnick]

There'S a radio station that figures into the plot. It's how they put alerts out about the warriors movements around the city.

[Issa Davis]

It's also a handy dramaturgical device, let you know where you are in the city at any given point.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

They actually put that in after the fact when they needed a little bit more continuity exposition.

[David Remnick]

Well, let's listen to a clip from the film.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Great.

[Issa Davis]

All right, now for all you boppers out there, in the big city, all you street people with an ear for the action. I've been asked to relay a request from the Gramercy Riffs. It's a special for the Warriors. That's that real live bunch from Coney, and I do mean the Warriors. Here's a hit with them in mind.

[David Remnick]

There you go.

[Issa Davis]

Yeah. It's never been as menacing as in this context. Yeah.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

That's such a great montage in the movie. Oo.

[David Remnick]

Where does this figure into the whole story?

[Issa Davis]

It was useful to the filmmakers, and it was useful to us as well.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Yeah. What Shancia does is she really animates the fact that, you know, there are these really strong Jamaican roots to hip hop. And in a lot of ways, you know, this is an album that's a love letter to the film, but it's also a love letter to a moment in the cultural origins of hip hop. Got a word and the waves breaking from the station boppers ears open we in a condition truce is broken Peace meeting go heavy and Cyrus the one and only Dead to the world the reign it fall and vengeance panderize Little Coney island crew, they coming for you warriors, you want to run.

[David Remnick]

You think the film will get another viewing in some way? People go back to the film.

[Issa Davis]

I think so. I mean, you know, I think one of the strengths of our collaboration was Issa was coming into it fresh, and this movie was, like, written on stone tablets in my mind. And I think what we've written is somewhere in between. Like, I think fans of the movie will totally appreciate the moments they love and the lines they love, and that's all in there. And yet, I think that Issa really came at it with a lot of dramaturgical innovation and really opened up. And it could also be this, I think, chief among them being the fact that all these gangs are lured to the South Bronx with the promise of peace. And in the movie, the thought of peace dies when Cyrus is shot. But Issa's found a way, really beautifully, to keep that promise alive. The fact that that's what got us out of our neighborhoods in the first place and sort of put some hope through it in a way that's really, I think, very moving. And exc.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

That came up as we were adapting this was the idea that I could be really irreverent with it and really, you know, go after the sexism that's there in the film, the homophobia that's there in the film. It was Lin's idea, actually, to have the gender swap where the warriors as a gang are a femme gang, you know, they're women and girls and that Cyrus is a woman. And then what we got to do with that was, you know, just really go after what a specific experience of women fighting their way back but unarmed, you know, just only having their bodies and their wits and, you know, just facing all of the obstacles along the way. And I worked on a show called Justified City Primeval, which is an adaptation of an Elmore Leonard novel. And something that he said in Adaptation is that you can just hang it up the host text and strip it for parts. And I feel like that's something that I got to do again here with warriors is really just reach for what was important to me about, you know, women in this particular experience. And also thinking about, you know, how like black girls on the playground, you know, doing a little roll call. You hear that Warrior cypher track, the third track, you know, we're going, ah chica, ah chica. And that's something that I used to do as a kid, right? And then that again is also part of what gives birth to, you know, what we know of as hip hop as this international cultural force.

[David Remnick]

Issa Davis with Lin Manuel Miranda talking about their new album the Warriors. We'll continue our conversation in a moment. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

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[Justin Wines Announcer]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported by Justin Wines. Since 1981, Justin has been producing their signature Bordeaux style wines from Paso Robles on California's Central coast. With a rich history of accolades, Justin produces exceptional wines and is proud to be America's number one luxury Cabernet. Whether you're a first time wine drinker or a wine aficionado, Justin has a wine for every celebration and occasionally visit justinwine.com and enter Radio 20 for 20% off your order.

[Alexis Ohanian]

Hi, I'm Alexis Ohanian. You may know me as one of the co founders of Reddit, but more recently, a large part of my identity is being a father to my wonderful daughters. In my podcast Business Dad, I hope to open the conversation about working parents a bit. You'll get to hear from a wide range of business dads, from Rainn Wilson and Guy Raz to Todd Carmichael and Shane Battier to find out how they balance being a dad with a successful career. Business dad is available now, so be sure to listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Remnick]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick and I've been speaking with Lin Manuel Miranda, who you of course know as the creator of Hamilton, along with Pulitzer Prize finalist Issa de Davis on a new album called the Warriors. Miranda and Davis have reimagined the cult classic from 1979 as a song cycle, and they describe the album to me as a love letter to the film rather than as a remake. So for now it exists only as a record, although I can't quite believe it's not going to be on stage or on film before long. There's so much fashion, just out and out fashion in the film version. Since the movie is so visual, did you rely on different styles of music throughout the album to evoke some of this sense of style and fashion?

[Issa Davis]

Sometimes the fashion gave us clues as to what the music would be. You know, I think that having the gang on skates that we meet in Canyon Square, move up to 96th street, you know, we also know that like Paris, the events of Paris burning are taking place around this time. There's this amazing queer nightlife subculture happening. And so we made that the House of Hurricanes and had this incredible moment with this gang. But I also, what was freeing about doing this as an album is I really think it's a love letter to the movie in a real big way. I would never dream of remaking this film. I was going to ask.

[David Remnick]

This is not a preface to.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

No, not at all.

[Issa Davis]

No, not at all. On the contrary, it's a love letter to the movie. And it was so freeing to basically find the music that would create this story in your head.

[David Remnick]

You weren't tempted at all, either one of you, to, once this project had hit its stride, to say, now I see this as the soundtrack of a film or something on stage.

[Issa Davis]

No, to me, I was adapting the film like it was for me. I was, you know, we were picturing our own version of this movie and.

[David Remnick]

Do you think you need knowledge of the film in your head when listening to the album?

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

I mean, no, not at all.

[Issa Davis]

That's been the fun litmus test is in playing it for people. I like playing it for Die Hards of the film and seeing them nod at the references. And I like playing it for people who have never seen it.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Young people.

[Issa Davis]

Yeah. I played it for this one young person who was like. Who called me, who counts as young lin Manuel, like 20 something and like, produces a podcast.

[David Remnick]

There it is.

[Issa Davis]

And had never heard of the movie.

[David Remnick]

The Producers, the podcast part.

[Issa Davis]

And she came to me and she said, I googled this after you played it for us. And like, they're dudes. How does it work if they're dudes? Which means we did our job because it means the warriors in our telling, you know, we sort of carved out our own lane. That is not. You know, I think the pitfall of a lot of adaptations is you're waiting for that part you like from the.

[David Remnick]

Movie to happen and to be the same thing.

[Issa Davis]

Yeah. And so I think this has lots of, like, if you were a fan of this movie, you're gonna love this album. But it also carves out its own lane as a companion piece.

[David Remnick]

And let's just point out Lauryn Hill.

[Issa Davis]

Yes.

[David Remnick]

Performs a song called if youf Can Count, which features Cyrus, AKA Lauryn Hill. Let's hear a little bit of that.

[Issa Davis]

Can you dig it?

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Can you dig it?

[Issa Davis]

Remember what you had to do to earn your block. And Freddy's break hands non stop making mission competition so your click is on top. Imagine what I had to do to stay on top.

[David Remnick]

After all these years. It's so great to hear her.

[Issa Davis]

It is.

[David Remnick]

It's so great to hear her. And she performs only rarely. And tell me a little bit about why she's the right Cyrus for the album. I think she might be the right thing for everything.

[Issa Davis]

We had no plan.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

We didn't. We were just like, it's her. Or, you know, nobody. You know, we just had to have her. And it's because she is truly one of the greatest MCs and greatest singers that ever graced this planet. You know, she's in everyone's top five MCs. You know, the Miseducation of Lauryn Hill is a classic album that of course, recently Apple Music named their number one album. And she just has a kind of authority, she has a kind of gravitas. And I think that, you know, she, as Cyrus, asking for this call for peace is exactly right. It's exactly right. And we have to.

[David Remnick]

She had a complicated career.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

She has.

[David Remnick]

And why did she say yes, other than your enormous talents and powers of persuasion?

[Issa Davis]

I mean, when you just played that clip, I turned to Issa off mic and was like, it's real. It's like, we still can't believe that she did it, that Ms. Hill sang a song we wrote, you know, because even more spectacular than the fact that she said yes, she's one of the great writers as well, one of the great songwriters. So that she. You know, basically the way it happened was I met her manager at a social function, and her manager mentioned that she had admired Hamilton, and I said, great. Cause do I have.

[David Remnick]

It didn't take long.

[Issa Davis]

And Issa and I carefully crafted our letter to Ms. Hill of, like, why we thought she was. Why she was our only choice to play Cyrus on this album. And so I would just text the manager every week, just, hey, you have the tracks. Let us know when she can get in the studio. And it wasn't until earlier this year that we. Instead of getting a text back saying, she's in Brazil, she's in London, we just got a text that was a Dropbox, and it had all the vocal files, and she had created these additional choral arrangements with background vocalists that she had added on top of what we had sent her. Just un.

[David Remnick]

Unbidden. It just happened.

[Issa Davis]

Yeah. And it was. And it was both in the spirit of what we had written, and also she had added these layers that we could never have dreamed of, because she's Ms. Lauryn Hill and we're mortals.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

But it was definitely Bidden. I mean, we were praying. We were asking, like, you know, just, can we give you our first unborn child?

[Issa Davis]

You know, and we were slowly finishing the rest of the album.

[David Remnick]

And we were just a whole creative process through email.

[Issa Davis]

I mean, you were sending.

[David Remnick]

Whether you were in a studio.

[Issa Davis]

Pretty much the only one that was through email. We kind of. I remember reading about this last.

[David Remnick]

But with her, it's all that way.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Yes, with her, exactly. She was the wizard behind the curtain. Like, we never got.

[David Remnick]

So you never got to meet her?

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Yeah, I mean, I'd met her before in the past when I was.

[David Remnick]

Makes it cooler, doesn't it?

[Issa Davis]

If she calls for a meeting in the Bronx, I'll go, I'll be there. And so, with the exception of Ms. Hill, we were in the studio with everybody. So we went to Staten island to go record Ghostface. We went to LA to record rza. We really went to meet people where they Are A lot of people came and met us at Atlantic Studios. And again, like, selfishly, as songwriters, like, when you write a piece of theater, you write it and then you cast it. Whereas with this, I really wanted to explore the musicianship of the people I was working with. We spent two weeks with our third partner in crime here, Mike Elizondo, who's the producer of the album, and he lives in Nashville, and we just played with his band for two weeks to create all the songs before we got all the vocalists, which never happens on a cast album. On a cast album, you're pressed for time and you're recording it between eight shows a week.

[David Remnick]

And it's a precise song, scheduled piece of work, 100%.

[Issa Davis]

Whereas we actually got to explore the sound of what this is first and foremost.

[David Remnick]

So it takes a while.

[Issa Davis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We spent pretty much this year recording it.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Yeah.

[David Remnick]

Let me ask you this. It's wonderful to have a gigantic success like Hamilton in all kinds of ways.

[Issa Davis]

First line of the obituary, no matter what I do.

[David Remnick]

Fair enough. But you're still young. And are you able to work on the next thing and the next thing without self consciousness or concern about that hanging on your shoulders?

[Issa Davis]

Yeah. I mean, I think what's interesting about Hamilton is that no one I talked to thought it was a good idea when I was writing it, but I could see it, and it was the idea that wouldn't leave me alone. And similarly with warriors, that's a movie I spend a lot of time watching. I had a college classmate who actually pitched me this back in 2009 after my first show in the Heights.

[David Remnick]

Pitched you this idea?

[Issa Davis]

Yeah, he said warriors, the musical. He had gotten a job working for. His name is Phil Westgren. He'd gotten a job working for the producer of the film, Larry Gordon. And I wrote him back an email in 2009 saying, here's why it could never work. And most of my objections were just about action sequences and songs fighting for the same real estate. But that email, what does that mean.

[David Remnick]

Songs for the same real estate?

[Issa Davis]

Well, I think porno movies, action movies and musicals are all fighting for the same story, real estate. When you can't talk anymore, you sing, you fight, or you fuck. It's similar structure at work, which is which, again, your mileage may vary. And so for me, that, to me, was like, I've never really seen a convincing fight sequence in a musical. It's always kind of Jerome Robbins dance ballet. And so, you know, until Outsiders, Until Outsiders last year, which actually had incredible fight sequences. Right. Props to them. And so. But again, that idea kind of was in my head. And then by the time I'd come up for air after performing in Hamilton for a year and started to actually think about what I wanted to do next, there was a whole section of my brain raising its hand. Being like that warriors thing you said no to was actually a very good idea.

[David Remnick]

That was the thing.

[Issa Davis]

Yeah, that was the thing. And we've been working on it and we have some ideas. So again, I chase the ideas that don't leave me alone, the ones that just keep coming back around. And I think part of learning your craft as an artist is learning to listen to your gut when it's going over here, over here. There's something here.

[David Remnick]

You know more than anybody how most people listen to music now. They listen to singles, they listen to songs. The way to listen to this is as this extended sequence all the way down, which runs how long?

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

It's like 81 minutes.

[David Remnick]

So that's a healthy, lengthy time.

[Issa Davis]

I joke that we've built a new Zoe Trope. It's like a thing people do. Look through this slot. We're very excited about it.

[David Remnick]

If only this had been the soundtrack for Megalopolis.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Oh, my goodness.

[Issa Davis]

It's a love letter to the concept albums of the 70s that I grew up with. When Jesus Christ Superstar, Tommy, Tommy the Lamb Lies down on Broadway by Genesis. And then there are even hip hop concept albums. Like Prince Paul had an amazing album called A Prince Among Thieves.

[David Remnick]

But do you think you're going uphill asking people to listen to 80 odd minutes of music as opposed to 4 minutes? 4 minutes.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

But I don't know. I think. I mean, I think there was a ritual that people had in watching the warriors on vhs, which is how Lin saw it. You know, it's like, oh, it's Friday night. Let's like, throw that in and watch it again. And I think there is an appetite to see something like that or listen to something like that, you know, and we want people to listen to the album in that way.

[David Remnick]

I totally get that. But there's gonna come a time, if it hasn't happened already, where the world's gonna tell you, the market's gonna tell you, somebody's gonna tell you who's coming. This is fantastic. Let's make a movie.

[Issa Davis]

Yeah. Again, not interested in a movie. I'd be. I mean, we're both theater artists, so I'd be very interested in exploring what the stage version of this would look like.

[David Remnick]

So you're not close to that we.

[Issa Davis]

Have literally no plans. But I'll tell you, I remember the real watershed moment for Hamilton wasn't actually when we started playing at the Public. It was when the soundtrack came out in October and you started having those kind of closed performances. Watch the front row start to know all the words better than I did. Like, I watched that happen nightly in real time, which meant they were listening to the whole thing because they couldn't get in the room, but that Hamilton sung through. So they would listen to the album top to bottom. And so, you know, for me, this is like, well, this is not the oral recording of a thing you can't see. This is the thing we made. It is designed for you to listen to it. You all have the thing we made at the same time, which is enormously freeing for me. Coming off of Hamilton where it was like, so hard to get in for a while.

[David Remnick]

It was.

[Issa Davis]

I remember it's like, now we all have the same thing that we've been working on for the whole time. And that feels wonderful.

[David Remnick]

Well, it's a wonderful thing and I really appreciate you being here. Thanks so much.

[Issa Davis]

Thank you. Thank you.

[David Remnick]

That's Issa Davis and Lin Manuel Miranda. Their new album the warriors just came out. That's the New Yorker Radio Hour for today. I'm David Rednick. Thanks for listening. See you next time.

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Louis Mitchell. This episode was produced by Max Bolton, Adam Howard, David Krasnow, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell, Jared Paul, and Ursula Sommer, with guidance from Emily Bottine and assistance from Michael May, David Gable, Alex Barish, Victor Guan, and Alejandra Deckett. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Cherina Endowment Fund.

[Chris Morocco]

Hey, podcast listeners. I'm Chris Morocco, food director of Bon Appetit and Epicurious and host of the Dinner SOS podcast. Every week on Dinner sos, we help listeners tackle cooking challenges.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

I cannot manage pork in, like, any fashion.

[Chris Morocco]

And with all the big cooking holidays coming up, there's a lot of home cooks who need our help.

[Issa Davis]

We're doing a Thanksgiving with 15 friends, and the friend with the biggest house is hosting. But unfortunately, that house also has the teeny, tiniest pigeon.

[Chris Morocco]

Christmas morning, I flipped him over, walked.

[Issa Davis]

Away, and one load collapsed onto the floor.

[Chris Morocco]

Luckily, I come prepared with the over 50,000 recipes in the Bon Appetit and Epicurious archives, plus my incredible co hosts from the test kitchen and beyond.

[Sponsor Announcer]

I was almost over excited about the.

[Lin Manuel Miranda]

Options that we had. There were so many options too. Okay, great. Nelson, you're in a great place.

[Issa Davis]

I love it.

[Chris Morocco]

Listen to and follow dinner SOS wherever you get your podcasts. Happy cooking.