Zadie Smith on Politics, Turning Fifty, and Mind Control

The New Yorker Radio Hour with David Remnick
Date: October 24, 2025

Overview

In this revealing and wide-ranging conversation, acclaimed novelist and essayist Zadie Smith joins host David Remnick to discuss her new essay collection, Dead and Alive, as well as the 25th anniversary of her classic debut novel White Teeth. Smith reflects on how her outlook has evolved with age, weighs in on debates around fiction and representation, navigates her nuanced left-wing politics, and issues a stark warning about the manipulative power of digital technology. The discussion weaves together personal anecdote, cultural commentary, and a sharp analysis of the present moment.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Revisiting ‘White Teeth’ and Self-Reflection at Fifty

[01:42 – 05:30]

• Smith describes feeling distant from her 25-year-old self, the “girl” who wrote White Teeth, and is grateful but acknowledges her own evolution.
• She contrasts her youthful, exuberant energy with her current, more contemplative self:

  “I am quieter inside than that person. She was really like...Gene Kelly, like running into New York, like Gotta dance. That was my vibe, age 24, and I'm just not there anymore.” (Zadie Smith, 03:17)

2. The Role of Essays and a “Slow Food” Approach to Culture

[04:40 – 05:58]

• Smith sees essay writing as an act of “listening,” maintaining distance from the frantic pace of digital discourse.
• She aligns her process with the “slow food movement,” taking time to think rather than engaging in online posting or quick responses.

• “I'm like the slow food movement of writing. It just takes me a minute to think.” (Zadie Smith, 05:36)

3. Fiction, Representation, and Creative Freedom

[05:58 – 10:20]

• Fascinated to Presume: In Defense of Fiction: Smith discusses anxieties about who "gets to tell" stories, arguing that fiction should not be constrained by contemporary notions of representation:
• Discusses her experience writing characters outside her own identity, and how some forms of appropriation are scrutinized unequally:

  “My pride is hurt by the idea that...there’s nothing you can take from a white man...But anyone can take anything from me...If I'm going to appropriate, I hope that I should be able to appropriate from a middle aged white man, that I'm able to take him, make him, create him. That's part of my M.O. as a novelist.” (Zadie Smith, 07:39)

• She acknowledges that modes of fiction and literary trends change, and not everyone will enjoy the way she approaches fiction.

4. The Complex Legacy of Literary Icons (Virginia Woolf)

[10:20 – 14:10]

• Smith reflects on the tendency to judge historical figures by current ethical standards, emphasizing instead the importance of engaging critically and structurally with their work:

  “There's very few things about a person which makes me turn away completely. Like, there's so much to love in Virginia, so much to value, so much vulnerability, so much sadness, so much heroism.” (Zadie Smith, 11:20)

• Woolf’s “Room of One’s Own” influenced Smith’s own feminism, particularly in understanding systemic versus individual barriers.

5. Trans-Atlantic Politics and the Concept of the Left

[17:55 – 24:17]

• Smith contrasts the American and European understandings of left-wing, democratic socialist politics, pointing out that what is seen as “radical” in the US was once mainstream across Europe—even for conservatives.

  “That social compact that [he] was trying to describe of decent housing equal and free education and free health care is what I grew up in... So to call someone like him a communist is mind blowing from a European perspective.” (Zadie Smith, 20:52)

• She warns that such policies in the UK are currently being “unpicked”, and hopes that a progressive compact can be rebuilt without necessitating the devastation of “apocalypse”.

6. Authoritarianism, Dreams, and the Rise of Mind Control

[24:17 – 28:50]

• Discussion turns to Smith’s essay on the psychology of living under authoritarianism (“The Dream of the Raised Arm”) and the eerie relevance to current U.S. politics.
• Smith draws a parallel between Nazi-era propaganda and the vastly more powerful manipulations possible via today’s digital platforms:

  “Such were the paltry propaganda tools. Hitler turned to his advantage in spectacular fashion, though they were like crayons on paper compared with what a man like Elon Musk now has at his disposal.” (Zadie Smith, 25:17)

• She emphasizes the scope of digital manipulation:

  “Everything digital, everything online has been talked about as if it’s not ideological, as if it’s neutral. These are neutral tools, and then we'll do our politics on them. But it was never neutral.” (Zadie Smith, 27:17)

7. Screen Time, Class, and Regulation

[28:50 – 32:03]

• Smith describes meeting teenagers in Barcelona and encouraging them to “look away” from their screens as an act of resistance:

  “…to seriously damage the billionaire empires that have been built on your attention and are now manipulating your democracies...all you guys would need to do is look away and thus give a new meaning to the word woke.” (David Remnick paraphrasing, 29:14)

• She highlights the class divisions inherent in digital consumption, noting that screen overuse disproportionately affects less-privileged children.
• Parenting can’t compete with systemic influences—the question of regulation is raised:

  “Why is this a parent's job? Like, it’s a regulator's. It’s a regulator's job.” (Zadie Smith, 30:42)

• Suggests regulation of children’s access to certain platforms; notes that perspectives shift markedly once people have children of their own:

  “It was only whatever it is now, 15 years ago, where the idea would have seemed like science fiction. I don't think it's too much to create some regulation...” (Zadie Smith, 31:02)

• Her optimism comes from a belief that people ultimately want “joy and freedom,” and this is not it.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On creative evolution:

  “I'm grateful to that girl because she wrote a book which enabled my life...But as you get older...It gets quieter inside, you know, I am quieter inside than that person.” (03:17)

• On representation debates and creative pride:

  “If I'm going to appropriate, I hope that I should be able to appropriate from a middle aged white man...That's part of my M.O. as a novelist.” (07:39)

• On the legalistic view of fiction:

  “The voice of fiction doesn't come from a single legal entity who can be stood up in court and defended. The voice of fiction is diffuse anyway.” (06:25)

• On judging literary legends:

  “There's so much to love in Virginia, so much to value...And then there are all these blind spots. But as a human, what's the mode of thinking?” (11:20)

• On politics and the welfare state:

  “...the very least that we imagined in 1946, all over Europe...is what we call government around here. So I'm always trying to remember that about my American audience, that they've no reason to know that they've never lived in it...” (20:52)

• On the normalization of digital manipulation:

  “Everything digital, everything online has been talked about as if it's not ideological, as if it's neutral. But it was never neutral.” (27:17)

• On regulating screen time:

  “Why is this a parent's job? Like, it's a regulator's. It's a regulator's job.” (30:42)

• On hope for the future:

  “I think people will want it at some point because I, I think people want to go towards joy and freedom. And I don't think this is joy or freedom.” (31:52)

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Time | Segment | |-------------|------------------------------------------------------| | 01:42–05:30 | Zadie on turning 50 and looking back at White Teeth | | 04:40–05:58 | Why Smith writes essays; slow approach to information| | 05:58–10:20 | Representation in fiction and creative boundaries | | 10:20–14:10 | The complexities of Virginia Woolf | | 17:55–24:17 | Politics of the left USA vs. UK, welfare philosophies| | 24:17–28:50 | Dreams under authoritarianism & power of tech | | 28:50–32:03 | Screen time, class, regulation, and hope |

Conclusion

This episode is a rich and candid intellectual exchange, with Zadie Smith offering nuanced, sometimes provocative reflections on literature, politics, and technology. Listeners are treated to her characteristic blend of humility, wit, and incisive cultural critique.
Whether you’re interested in writing, social structures, or just what it means to live in our current moment, Smith’s perspective is thoughtful and indispensable.