The Next Level Podcast - Episode 1001: "Evil Is As Evil Does" | Detailed Summary

Release Date: July 25, 2025

In the 1001st installment of The Next Level podcast by The Bulwark, hosts Sarah Longwell and Jonathan V. Last (JVL) delve into a multitude of pressing cultural and political issues. This episode, titled "Evil Is As Evil Does," offers listeners a blend of nostalgic reflections, critical analyses of high-profile scandals, and speculative discussions on current political maneuvers. Below is a comprehensive summary of the episode, structured into key segments for clarity.

1. Introduction to the Secret Podcast

The episode opens with JVL and Sarah introducing their "Secret Podcast," an exclusive segment aimed at subscribers who seek deeper conversations beyond the main show.

• JVL [01:06]: "This is not the Next Level. You're getting this in the Next Level feed, but this is actually the secret show that Sarah and I do together..."

• Sarah [01:25]: "If you've ever listened to TNL and thought, you know what I'd like? I'd like to listen to just Sarah and JBL fight about the things that they fight about."

2. Memorializing Hulk Hogan

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the reported passing of Hulk Hogan, a cultural icon from the hosts' childhoods.

• JVL [03:01]: "TMZ reported that Hulk Hogan... has passed away at the age of 71."

• Sarah [03:34]: "Hulk Hogan is part of my childhood... I had a Hulk Hogan poster."

The hosts reminisce about Hulk Hogan's influence, sharing personal anecdotes about memorabilia and the role wrestling played in their early lives.

3. Hulk Hogan’s Legal Battles and Peter Thiel’s Involvement

The conversation shifts to Hulk Hogan's legal issues, notably his lawsuit against Gawker Media, and Peter Thiel's instrumental role in funding this legal action.

• JVL [08:01]: "Hulk Hogan is the key figure in Trump and MAGA, and he's allied with Peter Thiel... to kill Gawker Media."

• Sarah [10:42]: "That's it. That's the story that I remember. That was the last time I saw Hulk Hogan pack until I saw him at the Republican National Convention."

They explore the implications of Thiel's support, noting how it intertwines with broader political movements and media dynamics.

4. Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, and Political Conspiracies

A substantial segment is dedicated to the Jeffrey Epstein scandal, focusing on Ghislaine Maxwell's potential impact on political figures, including former President Trump.

• JVL [13:09]: "There is a piece out by Jonathan Turley... he is just calling balls and strikes... Jonathan Trulli games out the ways in which Maxwell could be."

• Sarah [14:37]: "I don't owe the due deference of correct pronunciation to the sex trafficker who aided Jeffrey Epstein."

The hosts discuss theories around Maxwell's testimony and its possible ramifications, including the exposure of high-profile individuals allegedly involved in illicit activities.

5. Speculations on MAGA’s Maneuvers and Trump's Strategies

Sarah and JVL speculate on how the MAGA movement and Donald Trump might leverage ongoing scandals to their advantage.

• JVL [17:17]: "The Maxwell Gambit could work... they get to say the conspiracy goes so much deeper... it's a much more saleable proposition for Trump."

• Sarah [22:20]: "People got a long way to go. He's got three and a half years."

They analyze potential strategies, such as discrediting Maxwell's credibility or shifting public focus to other alleged conspiracies involving Democratic figures.

6. Challenges to Maxwell’s Credibility and Media Narratives

The discussion emphasizes the difficulties MAGA proponents may face in convincing the public of Maxwell’s reliability as a witness.

• Sarah [20:37]: "She is not a credible witness. She, she, she did some bad things while she was under the spell of that, that evil Jew."

• JVL [24:33]: "Whatever they need her to."

The hosts express skepticism about the effectiveness of MAGA's potential tactics, highlighting the complexities involved in public perception and media influence.

7. Connections to Broader Political Figures: Elon Musk and Others

Touching on the interconnectedness of various political and business figures, Sarah mentions recent statements by President Trump regarding Elon Musk.

• Sarah [18:50]: "Did you see Trump's tweet about Elon this morning?"

• JVL [19:57]: "The Maxwell Gambit could work, though..."

This segment underscores the entangled relationships between influential personalities and their impact on political narratives.

8. Upcoming Topics and Community Engagement

Towards the end of the episode, the hosts tease upcoming discussions, including the story of Derek Huffman, who moved his family to Russia due to perceived "woke" culture in Arizona and Texas.

• JVL [26:13]: "Now we gotta talk about Derek Huffman... and enlisted in the Russian army."

• Sarah [27:08]: "So you got to go behind the wall for this."

They encourage listeners to support their community and subscribe for more in-depth content.

9. Advertisements and Sponsorships

The episode features brief advertisements for Aflac and Energy Trust of Oregon at the beginning, as well as a LifeLock ad towards the end. These segments are non-content sections and are thus omitted from the main summary.

Notable Quotes:

• Sarah Longwell [05:11]: "Like, you pay for fake wrestling."

• JVL [06:36]: "But again, the winning. You only care about because you know the story."

• Sarah Longwell [14:37]: "I do have to just dig into this weird story for one second."

• JVL [17:17]: "I think this is coming. I think this is going to be OJ searching for the real killers and MAGA is going to be there for it."

Conclusion: Episode 1001 of The Next Level provides a deep dive into the intersections of pop culture, legal battles, and political conspiracies. Through candid dialogue, Sarah Longwell and JVL offer listeners a critical perspective on influential figures and ongoing scandals, while also setting the stage for future exclusive content. This episode is particularly insightful for those interested in the behind-the-scenes dynamics of American politics and media.