Podcast Summary: The Next Level
Episode: 1008: Gavin Goes FULL TRUMP! Tucker DROOLS Over Dictatorship! Trump’s CULT Has COPS?!
Date: August 20, 2025
Hosts: JVL (Jonathan V. Last), Tim Miller, Andrew Sullivan (sitting in for Sarah Longwell)

Main Theme / Episode Overview

This episode is a layered, satirical yet deeply serious analysis of recent political and cultural shifts, focusing on:

• The alarming normalization and theatricality of federal police/militarization in D.C. under Trump
• The right’s open flirtation with authoritarianism, as showcased by Tucker Carlson and others
• Gavin Newsom’s adoption of “Trumpist” online persona tactics, and the broader implications for Democratic strategy and political culture
• The rise of media-hungry MAGA state officials and their influence on GOP politics
• The complicated quest for Democrats to rebrand and recapture working- and middle-class authenticity, as illustrated by a new Senate candidate in Maine

The conversation weaves together real-time news, sociopolitical analysis, and pop culture, maintaining the Bulwark’s signature mix of urgency, sarcasm, and banter.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s “Federal Police” and D.C. Militarization

• JVL introduces the recent viral video revealing “agents of the state” violently arresting a delivery man in D.C. (02:00). Both he and Tim Miller warn that the growing normalization of “armed thugs” policing the nation’s capital should not be brushed off as a distraction:

  “It's not actually a distraction when the nation's capital has militarized by a federal police force and armed thugs are jumping out of cars…tackling random doordash drivers. I think that's something that we should engage with on the merits.” — Tim Miller (02:25)

• The expansion and public pervasiveness of ICE, including new “ICEmobiles” branded with Trump’s name, are discussed as political theater, both menacing and carnival-esque. Andrew Sullivan points out:

  "The end game here is not…to get crime rates down...the point of conflict is the point of it. That kind of explains why they are behaving the way they are after these arrests." (08:25)

• All hosts agree that this spectacle—part security, part show—serves both as red meat for MAGA tourists and a recruitment drive for more agents, while incidentally exposing the cultishness of the Trump regime.

Memorable Moment:

“I bet...they're kind of like Disneyland characters…like Beetlejuice at Universal…closer to a Universal Studios character…than they are law enforcement.” — Tim Miller (13:52)

2. Authoritarianism, Caesarism & Right-Wing Thought-Leaders

• The team analyzes Tucker Carlson’s alarming podcast remarks about the inevitability of "Caesarism" (dictatorship), and how such ideas are gaining mainstream traction on the American right:

  "I think Caesarism is a natural life cycle of any civilization." — Anonymous guest (played by Tucker Carlson, 23:48)

• Andrew Sullivan and JVL stress that while the right-wing warns against an oligarchic left, in reality, plutocrats seem quite content under Trump-style strongman rule:

  “At this moment, the strongman and the oligarchs are getting along just fine.” — Andrew Sullivan (25:05)

• Tim Miller is especially bothered by the intellectual normalization of right-wing authoritarianism by influencers like Ben Shapiro and J.D. Vance:

  "It's gone from, 'This is crazy and alarmist' to, 'It is inevitable—and I'm kind of here for it.'" (30:43)

• The panel reflects on how the concept of “oligarchs” is redefined by the right to mean anyone with a college degree or professional standing, rather than true economic elites.
• JVL notes this shift from “authoritarian means dressed up in the language of democracy” to a new, open embrace of anti-democratic language by right-wing figures. (33:16–34:33)

3. Gavin Newsom’s “Full Trump” Schtick and Dem Political Culture

• The panel discusses Gavin Newsom’s new online persona, which apes Trump’s social media style (ALL CAPS, performative aggression), questioning if this is savvy, cringe, or dangerous:

  “It exposes the weird double standard whereby we believe that Donald Trump is a force of nature…but everyone else has agency and must be held to…standards of conduct.” — JVL (39:04)

• JVL and Tim see strategic merit, noting that “voters reward candidates who are really hungry” and that Democrats lack counterpunchers. Andrew Sullivan is skeptical—both on policy substance and whether “vibes” alone (as opposed to actual governing) should win elections.
• Tim’s worry: “It’s working too well…Gavin positioning himself as the one man who's fighting Trump becomes self-fulfilling…The train gets out the station…” (47:41)
• The hosts agree that “buddy fights” (oppositional showmanship) are, for now, what the political moment seems to reward, but they all express dyspepsia about its long-term consequences.

4. The MAGA State Official as Conservative Influencer: The Ryan Walters Story

• Andrew Sullivan reports on Oklahoma’s notorious Superintendent Ryan Walters, whose main focus is viral performance—not governance. Walters orchestrates minor culture war outrages designed to make national headlines (like demanding California/New York teachers pass PragerU tests or mandatory classroom “prayers for Trump”). (58:16–61:49)
• Even Oklahoma’s GOP leadership is exhausted with Walters, but his social media virality means he may yet “fail upwards.”

  “Even though he’s a total failure at the level of his state, he is still getting notoriety…not just from us…” — Andrew Sullivan (62:27)

• The team debates whether media coverage of such figures is useful or just feeds the outrage machine.

5. Reinventing the Democrats: The Case of Graham Platner in Maine

• Discussion of Maine’s new Senate candidate, Graham Platner—a grizzled, swearing, working-class, marine-vet/oysterman with left-populist policy positions. Is this the blueprint for a new Democratic brand?
• JVL: The mix of pro-worker, anti-oligarch, anti-forever war, but also not-supporting Dem leadership, is “half AOC, half Joe Rogan,” illustrating potential growth for Dems among blue-collar and male voters.
• Tim raises doubts about authenticity and the need for Dem “outsiders" who actually do break with party orthodoxy:

  “I want people who are like, ‘I fucking hate Donald Trump…and I also do think it’s crazy that trans girls are in boys sports…’” — Tim Miller (77:19)

• Andrew observes the “chicken and egg” problem: Democrats want such figures to “rebrand,” but until more are in office, the Dem label remains a “millstone.”
• All agree that Democrats need more authentic working-class voices to counter the perception that the party is solely the domain of college-educated elites.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On DC Policing

• “I do not like thugs who happen to have been given the ability to use deadly force on behalf of the state.” — JVL (04:21)

On the ICE-Mobiles Spectacle

• “These things are walking billboards…come work for ICE and you can whale on brown people and get to drive this really cool souped up Ford Mustang.” — JVL (11:26)

On the Campiness of Authoritarianism

• “Fascism is camp. Mussolini was camp. Gaddafi—who is more camp than Gaddafi?” — Tim Miller (15:13)

On Authoritarian Drift

• "Tucker is like essentially saying…we probably want it to be a friendly dictator. Like is essentially the point here…and like that there going to be violence…" — Tim Miller (29:59)

On Mainstreaming the Strongman

• “The Venn diagram of his supporters includes both people who believe he is an authoritarian and want it, and also people who believe that he's the only bulwark against authoritarianism from the left.” — JVL (26:34)

On ‘Buddy Fights’ and Voter Appetite

• “There is something in politics where voters reward candidates who are really hungry and…would run over their own grandmothers to be elected president.” — JVL (51:31)

On the Anxiety of Political Performance

• “I would like the fighting not to be the end in itself. I'd like…the fighting to be for something better, you know, something more aspirational…” — Tim Miller (49:09)

On the Chicken-and-Egg of Dem Rebranding

• “…Until you have some of these guys like in power as...figureheads…that has already started to change, the whole Democratic brand is still kind of a millstone around these guys necks.” — Andrew Sullivan (74:19)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• News of “Trump’s Cops” in DC: 01:52–18:51
• ICE-mobiles, spectacle, and political theater: 09:37–15:42
• Camp/Clownishness as camouflage for authoritarian drift: 14:05–15:42
• Open Authoritarianism & Tucker Carlson Clip: 22:52–35:21
• Democracy vs. Caesarism/Authoritarianism: 23:48–35:21
• Branding and incentives in conservative media: 31:56–33:36
• Gavin Newsom's new Trump-ish persona: 38:07–51:31
• Dem hunger for counter-punchers & “buddy fights”: 45:56–51:31
• Voters rewarding political hunger (analysis): 51:31–54:10
• MAGA influencer officials: Ryan Walters segment: 57:22–66:19
• Dem working-class rebranding: Graham Platner/Maine Senate segment: 67:59–78:42

Tone and Highlights

• The tone is a mix of gallows humor, exasperated warning, and searching for optimism amid “dystopian” developments.
• The hosts poke fun at political theater (ICEmobiles as theme park mascots), call out doublespeak, and emphasize the importance—yet the peril—of meeting right-wing showmanship with left-wing swagger.
• Throughout, the panel maintains their trademark skeptical urgency and deep concern for liberal democratic norms, even as they embrace moments of absurdity and humor.

Conclusion

This episode of The Next Level deftly excavates the interplay of authoritarian spectacle, right-wing influence, and the Democrats’ struggle to reinvent themselves without sliding into mere imitation or empty vibes. Using recent news as launchpads, the crew’s sharp banter and insightful analysis expose both the normalization of illiberal trends and the fraught search for authentic populist appeal in American politics.