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- [00:00]
A
Hey guys, it's JVL and Sarah. We did a bonus secret pod for the next level listeners this week because.
- [00:09]
B
Because there's Epstein stuff to talk about.
- [00:11]
A
And we wanted to talk about it and this is all the gory details. This is because I don't know that we can do this on YouTube where like the algorithm doesn't want you to say a bunch of stuff and. But this is the fully not safe for work version.
- [00:26]
B
Not safe for work. Don't listen with your kids in the car.
- [00:29]
A
Here's the show. Hello everyone. This is JVL here with my best friend Sarah Longwell. We have taken over just between us. Mona is out with some qualifying life events as. As the euphemism goes, which we are not going to share here. Sorry, but it's all. All good things. All good things.
- [00:49]
B
All things. All things for congratulations and love.
- [00:52]
A
Yes, Sarah, Yesterday, kind of a big day. We got the Epstein birthday book. I mean, I just want to let you go. I mean, I guess I have lots of questions, but let's start with this stuff in the book. People are fixating on the Trump contribution, as they should. It's the most important part. Part. But we've now gone through the rest of the book.
- [01:24]
B
Yeah.
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A
And it's really bad.
- [01:28]
B
Yeah, it's disgusting.
- [01:29]
A
I mean it's. But it's not just. If I could, I'm going to be a little judgy here. It's not just like disgusting in a gross out comedy way. It's disgusting in a this guy was obviously a psychopath way and everybody around him in this book understands that he's a psychopath and they are also, also psychopaths or they were just playing along as they thought it was fun. Because no normal human being could be talked about or depicted in the way that Epstein is depicted by basically everybody who knows him.
- [02:11]
B
So this is, this is what's in the book that I think when you take it in its totality, there are a number of things that are very consistent across the birthday wishes, which is that a great many people made jokes about women and girls. There are pictures of young girls, one per. Now they're all redacted and so you can't get all the context from it. But taken as a whole, you see that it was an entire culture in which everyone knew that Epstein was sleeping with underage girls, that he was obsessed with it. Yeah. And. And that they too took it as a joke. So for example, there's a couple things that, that jump out in, in this level of grossness one is. There is. Somebody did a sketch of him, Jeffrey Epstein in 2000 or, like, 1985 or whatever it was.
- [03:09]
A
It's 1983.
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B
1983.
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A
Okay. So he is handing balloons to small children, and he's wearing tattered jeans.
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B
Small female children.
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A
Small female children. Yes. Balloons and a lollipop and a sucker. And he's, like, all busted because he's poor.
- [03:27]
B
And then it cuts to the. It, like, then there's another painting scene drawing of it being 2003, which is when this book was put together for his 50th birthday. And it is a bunch of what is meant to be. Those same young girls, I guess, or just young girls.
- [03:52]
A
Different. Different young girls. Because we've gone from three of them to four. We can put this in the. In the video.
- [03:58]
B
Yeah, and they are. One of them appears to be going down on him. One of them is massaging his feet. They're all in skimpy thong bikinis. And. But to me, the grossest part is that it says, what a great country.
- [04:14]
A
What a great country. With an exclamation mark.
- [04:16]
B
With an exclamation mark. Meaning what a great place where you can become so rich that the girls that you once gave balloons to are now doing sexual favors for you. That's one of them. One of the worst ones. One of the other ones that was particularly disgusting is. And this is where. Yeah, and this is where, you know, it's all an inside joke between all of them. It's all funny. Funny is that they have got one of those comically large checks that is meant to be payment from, like, Epstein is selling the woman to Donald Trump for $22,300.
- [05:07]
A
Fully depreciated.
- [05:09]
B
A fully depreciated woman. Now, I think that this is. I just want to name something. Sometimes you got to name things to tame them. We had this situation in the office yesterday where the picture that Donald Trump claims he never drew and that didn't exist came out. And if you haven't seen the picture, it is drawn sort of around this poem in the curvature of a woman's body. And then it has, like, demarcations for breasts, little circles. But where Donald Trump's signature is. Is meant to signify sort of the pubic bone, pubic hair of the woman that he is drawing. And in our office, we were all like, we have to tweet these things out or whatever. So we're all sort of having a discussion about what is what, how we describe things, and it just drags you to A place where you're like, I don't want to be having these conversations with the young people in my office. Like, we don't. You don't want to be talking about this. But, like, it drags you. Donald Trump's behavior, the people he was surrounded by, this issue drags you into this incredibly disgusting place. And so, like, we have to name the fact that what he means by depreciated woman is a woman who's had sex with many people. Like, we know. Like, we are adults. We know that that is the implication of what they're writing. But it's. It's. It's the way that, like, the Wall Street Journal says things like body or suggested or. There is a way where people are sort of having to put a name to what is meant. What is. What is a. These people were clearly telling jokes to each other, thought it was funny. In the context of. Now, this all relates to America's most notorious pedophile. It all takes on a horribly dark meeting meaning. And now we all have to find some way to describe that. And so there's part of you that kind of wants to joke about it, that, like, to joke about the absurdity of it, to. To go dunk on JD Vance like I did, who had tweeted previously, this is all bs. Where's this picture? If they've got the picture, show it to us. And you're like, here, bro, here. And. And, you know, they won't come out and apologize or acknowledge that, because here's the thing. Trump denied drawing the picture. Trump denied the letter.
- [07:47]
A
Stop pounding the table.
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B
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I know it disrupts the microphone. Sorry. I get so. I get so.
- [07:54]
A
I know. I want. I want the passion. I just don't want you tapping the mic.
- [07:57]
B
Sorry, sorry, sorry. It just the way that they all knew the way that it was, and then the way that they're all lying about it. What's his name, the lawyer who keeps getting yelled at on, like, Martha's Vineyard?
- [08:15]
A
Alan Dershowitz.
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B
Alan Dershowitz is in there. And, you know, he has subsequently tried to really downplay his relationship with Epstein, but he is clearly among the close friends. And, yeah, Bill Clinton's in there in a totally illegible.
- [08:34]
A
Yeah, I couldn't really.
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B
They could. And I'll tell you the one thing. And it is other. It is innocuous, other than it has a line in it where he compliments Epstein's childlike curiosity that, again, takes on, like, a real different valence when you Know what Epstein has done? Anyway, I guess there's a bunch of different components to all this, but I just want to stick with the book for one second and say this was released by Epstein's estate. Okay. So the idea that it was tampered with, that the book was like, it's not Donald Trump's signature. Like these things, there's no world, there is no world in which this is not true. Like, you can't make up all of these things. The, the, the way went through a rigorous analysis by the Wall Street Journal. But like you don't even need a rigorous analysis.
- [09:41]
A
Well, let's, I guess, Well, I mean, okay, there, there's a lot to pull on. So let's detour for a moment just to address the oh, it's a forgery, fake news, et cetera, et cetera, argument. Because what that means is that this was forged in 2003, right. When Donald Trump was a Democrat and somebody planted it there either for the long game to ruin him eventually, or. And then there's the question of, okay, well, everything else in it is genuine. So they only fabricated something from Donald Trump. Like that seems a little weird.
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B
Why did they also fabricate the other jokes that brought the jokes. I'll put quotation marks. The other things where Trump is part of the, the gag.
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A
Right, right. Because that's all throughout it.
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B
That's right.
- [10:33]
A
You know, he is. There is, there's one entry in it from a woman who says, you know, when I was, I, when I met, before I met Jeffrey, I was a 20 year old divorce, say, who was working as a waitress. And then after you, I've met Donald Trump and Prince Andrew and he lists all these people who are sexual predator.
- [10:53]
B
Kevin Spacey.
- [10:55]
A
Yeah, no, it really, it is again, I mean a whole bunch of people who we now know are slime bagged. Some Stephanie Seymour I think is also in there. You know, maybe Stephanie, Stephanie Seymour. She's a model, actress.
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B
I didn't know who, everybody.
- [11:11]
A
Sultan of Brunei, Donald. She says, I have met Prince Andrew. President Clinton. The Sultan of Brunei, Donald Trump. So again, he's 1, 2, 3, 4. We had four people right there off the top who are questionable. Naomi Campbell, Stephanie Seymour. Peter Brandt, Kevin Spacy. That's great. Michael Jackson.
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B
Perfect.
- [11:32]
A
Again, just like she's listing all of the people that we know. There are some other people in this list. But again, bad, Very bad. So I don't think again, I, I am happy to entertain seriously the question that this is faked. But it, I don't think not just as an exercise. Right, okay. But what I'm saying is I don't think it passes even the smell test of that, because again, it would have had to have been faked in 2003. There would have been no reason for it to have been faked in 2003. Nothing else that we're seeing appears to have been fake. So it's not like the entire book was a gag gift. Right. You could see a world in which somebody says, no, Maxwell made up all of it. And the whole thing was like a gag book to give to Epstein with her, like, coming up with ridiculous things that she thinks his friends would have said that. So, so only one entry in this thing was forged. But that doesn't make any sense. Right? He. He. He's in the address books. He's all. He's referenced. He's like a side character in a bunch of the other entries from the book. No, not so. It simply is preposterous. And yet that's the line that Trump is sticking with. And so Carolyn Leave. It gave her statement yesterday. It was like, absolute fake. It's not real. This is hoax. Like Russia hoax. JD Vance doubled down on it yesterday. And so my question. I have a question for you as a matter of just as a comms professional, is that what they should be doing? Because I think from their perspective, it is. If they were Democrats, they would have to, like, do your thing of tell the truth, tell the whole truth, tell it as fast as you can, but tell it all.
- [13:25]
B
Tell it fast, Tell the truth. That is my crisis comms training.
- [13:29]
A
Right. And that would be true for normal people, but they own a cult, and that cult is a very large percentage of the general public. Like, you know, it's at least 30% of the general public. And so for their purposes, I think they can just. For maintaining the base of support that they believe prevents them from experiencing any real political consequences. They can just brazen it out and it becomes a loyalty test like everything else. And every single one of their supporters will see this and recognize it as a loyalty test. And so we'll not every single one.
- [14:06]
B
But I. So one of the things, I knew we were going to get into this, and, and this is like a very straightforward Sarah jvl kind of dichotomy fight, which is. And I saw somebody post this on Twitter and I, I responded where it was like, we, Sarah, we got to.
- [14:23]
A
Put the rest of the show behind a. Behind the paywall.
- [14:26]
B
Sorry, guys, but I'm sorry. We want you to come ride with us. There's. Most of our stuff is free. Most of it you can get anywhere. We can't save democracy from behind a paywall, but we do have to have our business. Be some business Be back here. So come ride with us, Sam.