The Next Level – Episode Summary

Podcast: The Next Level
Hosts: Sarah Longwell, Tim Miller, Jonathan V. Last (JVL)
Episode Title: MTG's SHOCK Revolt! Dems Grow a SPINE? Tim's TWINK Strike Force?!
Date: October 9, 2025
Setting: Live show in Washington, DC

Episode Overview

This special live episode of The Next Level features Sarah Longwell, Tim Miller, and JVL delving into a turbulent week in American politics. With their signature blend of incisive analysis, humor, and candor, the trio discusses the Texas National Guard's shock intervention in Illinois, the escalating authoritarianism of Donald Trump’s administration, Democratic resistance strategies during a government shutdown, and the unexpected populist revolt led by Marjorie Taylor Greene. Listeners are treated to a tense, hope-tinged, and at times hilarious exploration of where the American experiment stands in fall 2025.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Texas National Guard in Illinois: Are We Near Civil War?

Timestamp: 04:14–15:05

• JVL introduces the theme: Texas National Guard troops land in Illinois to enforce federal immigration orders, against the wishes of local authorities. "On a scale of 1 to civil war, where do you think this sits, Timothy?" (05:02)
• Tim’s escalation score: “Like a seven, six. It's not... It's bad.” (05:32)
• Federal troops have used excessive force, including shooting a priest with a pellet gun, killing a man, and violently entering apartments. (06:12–07:27)
• Sarah reflects on the baiting strategy: “They are trying to get people to react... They want images of people throwing things... to give them the pretext to then crack skulls.” (08:43)
• Resistance is notable for its restraint—protesters don't give authorities the violence or chaos they seem to want. (09:50–11:18)
• The panel draws uneasy parallels between current events and the civil rights era, warning about the normalization of shock troop tactics for political theater.
• Quote: "It's about nothing except... projecting this kind of cosplay, tough guy, fascistic— We can say the word fascist—power." – Tim (08:01)

2. Provocation, Public Reaction, and the Limits of Authoritarian Power

Timestamp: 11:18–15:05

• The hosts discuss how Americans’ non-compliance frustrates authoritarian ambitions. Even provocative, violent acts by authorities are met with peaceful resistance or ridicule (e.g., furry dance parties in Portland).
• Sarah: “It is like we are not going to let them bait us into a civil war.” (10:57)
• There's ambiguity over how much danger there really is: “On one hand it's extremely ominous and then on the other hand, nobody seems to be giving them the pretext that they want.” (09:50)
• JVL remains grim, warning: authoritarians can just invent incidents if none arise; the risk of a fabricated pretext is ever-present. (15:14)

3. ICE Culture and the ‘Twink Strike Force’ Proposal

Timestamp: 22:44–24:34

• Tim proposes “maybe we should send some twinks in there, take the money... and then kind of report from the inside.” (23:39)
• They lampoon ICE’s recruitment, noting that it now attracts extreme loyalists (“proud boys”) and commands a larger budget than the FBI or even the Israeli military. (22:44–22:48)
• Sarah: “If they put a bunch of lesbians in there, you’d have both a more professional force as well as a really good ICE softball team.” (24:22)

4. Pop Culture as Political Battleground: The Zach Bryan “Revival” Controversy

Timestamp: 24:45–28:10

• Tim recounts how a pro-ICE propaganda video featured Zach Bryan’s song “Revival” over footage of chained migrants.
• Tim: “This whole song that is about, like, redemption and about community and opportunity... we try to repurpose it for their effort to fuck people up and to give people no chance...” (25:21)
• The hosts see public discomfort and indignation in repurposing “real American” culture for authoritarian imagery, suggesting the right-wing coalition is taking things “too far” for mainstream Americans (27:25–28:10).

5. Is There Hope for a Democratic Backlash?

Timestamp: 28:10–32:29

• Sarah hopes for a “pushback moment": “Everything that we say is unprecedented does leave open the opportunity for an unprecedented moment of pushback... I still believe there's enough virtue in the American people that there can be a point at which they say enough.” (29:04)
• JVL counters that Americans tend to acclimate and become desensitized to anti-democratic behavior: “Donald Trump is more popular today than he was at this point in 2017.” (28:12)
• The hosts debate how immigration, ICE raids, and televised state violence register emotionally with the public—does visceral imagery “rally” opposition or promote apathy?

6. Shutdown Stalemate: Are Democrats Finally Fighting Back?

Timestamp: 34:39–49:08

• The federal government is shut down; Trump floats withholding back pay for furloughed workers.
• Tim: “The whole thing is a farce... It's all for shit. ...they just want to signal that they hate you and that's what they're doing.” (36:55)
• Sarah and Tim agree Democrats are doing a better job than expected—using the healthcare fight (“Obamacare subsidies”) as a wedge and framing Trump’s shutdown as cruel and chaotic.
• Sarah: “I think the Democrats are actively winning this fight. ... [They're] making additional arguments. ... the recipe for this becoming a failure [for Trump] is really starting to take shape.” (40:12)
• The group notes even Marjorie Taylor Greene is siding against Republican leadership over health care, signaling a fracture in the party.
• Extended debate on whether Democrats will “fold” or win, with a bottle-of-liquor wager between Tim and Sarah. (48:12–48:55)

7. Marjorie Taylor Greene: Heroine or Opportunist?

Timestamp: 53:31–61:01

• The panel is genuinely shocked that MTG—infamous for her extremism—is the only national Republican figure pushing back against Trump’s anti-populist, anti-worker agenda.
• Tim: “The only person that has looked in the mirror in the morning and said to themselves, my conscience cannot take this is Marjorie Taylor Greene. Like, that is insane.” (55:55)
• Sarah argues MTG’s stand is about personal / political ambition, but Tim says that makes it all the more bizarre that others aren’t doing the same.
• Even self-styled Republican moderates have capitulated—MTG’s dissent highlights the total collapse of dissent or moderation within the party.

8. Who Is Most Disappointing? (And Who Surprised You?)

Timestamp: 61:53–68:31

• Most disappointing: Tim calls out John Thune as “worse than Mitch McConnell,” noting the utter lack of Senate resistance. “John Thune has sat there as Donald Trump has turned the country into an authoritarian hellscape... and John Thune has said, yes, sir, thank you very much, sir. May I have another?” (62:31)
• Sarah highlights the hypocrisy and impotence of “moderates” like Bill Cassidy and Lisa Murkowski, who once voted to impeach Trump but now offer no meaningful resistance.
• JVL doesn’t commit to naming a figure, but calls out the failures of the national press (Washington Post).

9. Reflections on Community & Audience

Timestamp: 69:01–77:38

• The hosts express deep appreciation for their audience/community, crediting them with helping maintain their sanity and fueling the Bulwark’s growth and mission.
• Sarah: “Donald Trump gave us the opportunity to do this thing and build a community with all of you. ... We're not just, like, putting out content so we can run ads against it, right? Every day we wake up and do the thing because we know that you guys are with us.” (74:37)
• Their optimism for American renewal is based on collective engagement and tenacity, not political institutions: “The only thing that is going to help us survive this... is a big enough community.”

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• “On a scale of 1 to civil war, where do you think this sits, Timothy?”
  — JVL (05:02)
• "It's about nothing except... projecting this kind of cosplay, tough guy, fascistic— We can say the word fascist—power."
  — Tim (08:01)
• “It is like we are not going to let them bait us into a civil war.”
  — Sarah (10:57)
• “They just want to signal that they hate you and that's what they're doing.”
  — Tim (36:55)
• “She is willing to buck Donald Trump for her own gain. I don't know that I think Marjorie Taylor Greene is willing to buck Donald Trump for the country or for her constituents.”
  — Sarah (59:52)
• "John Thune has sat there as Donald Trump has turned the country into an authoritarian hellscape... and John Thune has said, yes, sir, thank you very much, sir. May I have another?"
  — Tim (62:31)
• “Donald Trump gave us the opportunity to do this thing and build a community with all of you. ... We're not just, like, putting out content so we can run ads against it, right? Every day we wake up and do the thing because we know that you guys are with us.”
  — Sarah (74:37)
• "We know that you won’t let the authoritarians make you tired and give up, which is what they want, right? We know we have an audience that won't get tired. ... And we also know that our audience is smart."
  — Sarah (74:50)

Timestamps to Key Segments

• [04:14] Riot police and ICE aggression in Chicago—parallels to fascism and instability.
• [08:43] On provocations and why Americans are refusing to take the bait for violence.
• [23:39] Tim’s “Twink Strike Force”—infiltrating ICE for subversion.
• [25:21] The Zach Bryan “Revival” song controversy and its political use.
• [29:04] Sarah’s optimism: room for American pushback.
• [36:55] Tim on the cruelty and farce of government shutdown politics.
• [40:12] Sarah: Democrats are finally “winning” the messaging war.
• [55:55] Tim: “The only person... my conscience cannot take this is Marjorie Taylor Greene.”
• [62:31] Tim’s biggest disappointment: John Thune as GOP Senate leader.
• [74:37] Sarah on building community as democratic resistance.

Tone & Style Notes

• The episode is lively, profane, sometimes caustic, and deeply engaged.
• The hosts mix gallows humor (“cosplay fascist”) with genuine affection for their community.
• Regularly, they break into mutual teasing and self-deprecation, balancing gravity with hope and group solidarity.

Takeaways for Those Who Haven’t Listened

• America is at a political crossroads: Overt abuse of power is now part of the daily news cycle, but there is a resilient undercurrent of resistance in the public and in unexpected political quarters.
• Democrats, for once, are seizing the initiative—using real-world issues (like health care and shutdown consequences) to define the debate, while the GOP is fracturing along new, odd lines.
• MTG’s revolt underlines GOP dysfunction: The only meaningful dissent within the party now comes from the least-expected corners—and even that is likely self-serving.
• Community is resistance: The Bulwark hosts double down on civic engagement and community as the last firewall against democratic erosion.
• The conversation is both a warning and a rallying cry: don’t become desensitized, and don’t give up.