The Next Level, Ep. 1025: Bleak House – Reflections on a Quietly Depressing Week

Date: October 18, 2025
Hosts: Sarah Longwell, JVL (Jonathan V. Last)
Producer: The Bulwark

Episode Overview

This “secret show”—originally released behind The Bulwark’s paywall—delves into a bleak, dark mood as Sarah Longwell and JVL unpack the week's news, exploring themes of democratic backsliding, authoritarian creep, and the growing stranglehold of Trump-aligned actors across politics and media. Through candid banter, the hosts tackle the politicization of the justice system, disturbing trends in law enforcement, threats to independent media, and more. The tone is frank, frustrated, and occasionally laced with black humor—true to TNL’s signature style.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Prosecution of Political Figures (Bolton, Comey, Tish James)

[01:21]–[08:41]

• JVL launches into the episode’s “dark stuff,” mentioning the recent indictment of John Bolton as a symbol of DOJ weaponization.

• Sarah Longwell draws distinctions between the different cases:

  • “The Bolton one, where he has kept documents that he shouldn’t have… I think both things can be true. I think this can both be vindictive prosecution, which it clearly, clearly is against Bolton. But what I don’t know is just like with Trump… there was underlying criminal activity.” – Sarah Longwell [03:49]
  • She frames the Comey/Tish James cases as “100% meant to just screw with these people…very unlikely to almost no chance of getting convictions.”
  • Discusses how the mishandling of classified documents is rife at high government levels, but the differentiator with Trump was his direct obstruction and deception regarding document return.
  • JVL: “Innocent mistakes are the norm, not the exception… What made the Trump prosecution notable wasn’t that he had classified documents—it’s that he engaged in a prolonged period of lying…” [05:15]
  • Both express unease about direct, vindictive prosecution but see the Bolton case as more substantively tied to a real (if commonly mishandled) crime.

• JVL expresses one sliver of optimism:

  • “The Department of Justice is totally politicized… but they still have to convince juries… a jury of 12 of your peers is like the closest to an uncorruptible place as there is.” [07:25]

• Sarah teases him for cynicism about people: “Even with your low opinion of humans.” [08:41]

2. Cuomo, Authoritarian Normalization & Threats to Blue Cities

[08:41]–[14:58]

• Discussion shifts to Andrew Cuomo’s warning that if Mamdani wins, “Trump will take over the city… it will be Mayor Trump.”

  • JVL: “The idea… that Donald Trump will attempt to punish the city… is now just a totally acceptable… Sure. Of course he would do that.” [09:37]
  • Sarah immediately reacts: “How insane of an argument that is from Cuomo! ‘Elect me because the authoritarian likes me better than the other guy.’” [10:11]
  • The hosts call out the cynicism: “Gross, gross, gross.” – Sarah [10:28]

• The National Guard as political weapon

  • Sarah notes that sending federal troops to cities is becoming normalized, wondering why New York hasn’t seen it yet.
  • Hypotheses include New York’s status as a media/finance hub (“full on in the national media”) and resource limitations (“They can’t eat two major cities at the same time”—JVL [13:59]).
  • JVL remarks that under Trumpism, emergencies (like natural disasters) in blue areas would be ignored: “If the natural disaster is in a blue area, they won’t show up…” [15:10]

3. Pentagon Press Purge and the State of Media

[15:40]–[22:54]

• JVL breaks the news:

  • “Pentagon has purged the press corps. There are only three American news outlets which are now credentialed at the Pentagon.” [15:40]
  • The three: The Federalist, the Epoch Times, OAN (plus six Turkish outlets).

• Brief comic detour:

  • Sarah and JVL reminisce about his old Federalist piece on Frozen’s Prince Hans, highlighting how much the world has changed since political takes were interspersed with Disney villain discourse.
    • “We were living in a different world when you just had the time to sit there and opine on the frozen characters.” – Sarah [16:23]
    • “My case… is not that Prince Hans is the villain… but if you go deep in the early versions… there was a prophecy… Once there’s no prophecy, they had to create a villain…” – JVL [16:35]

• Back to the key point:

  • The Pentagon press corps has been replaced by “state-sanctioned” media—outlets that have effectively pledged only to publish administration-approved content.
  • “The whole point of it was… to get them out of the building so that we now have official state sanctioned media outlets…No different than, you know, Xing Zhao or Pravda.” – JVL [18:11]
  • Sarah is disturbed, but had worried it wasn’t being resisted:
    • “I am surprised at how many people didn’t sign it, including people like the Washington Examiner.” [19:22]
  • JVL counters: compared to OAN, Federalist, and Epoch Times, other right-leaning outlets (like Fox, Newsmax) have assets and legal exposure, so they can’t risk signing pledge-bargains for access.
  • Point: This isn’t about principle—just protecting financial assets and liability.

• Broader worry—Trump’s growing control of media

  • “The media…is increasingly owned by Trump-sympathetic allies… It goes for many of the people who are working on the AI slop that is coming our way…The extent to which the media ecosystem is becoming a wholly owned subsidiary of Trump and his allies cannot be overstated.” – Sarah [21:17]
  • Long-term impact: A narrowing of independent, critical press, amplifying authoritarianism and information control.

4. Final (Paid) Segment Tease & Episode Tone

[22:54]–[23:52]

• JVL preps to go behind the paywall for even “darker stuff,” jokingly pitching despair as a sales tactic:
  • “If you’d like to be even more depressed and hear even darker stuff, you should become a member of Bulwark Plus.” [23:13]
• Sarah hints at seeking a silver lining, but JVL doubts her optimism.
  • Spoiler from JVL: "She's not going to be able to." [23:19]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the distinction between vindictive and substantive prosecutions:
  • “Maybe he did something wrong and it’s vindictive prosecution, which is just different than Tish James and James Comey, which are just purely made up...” – Sarah Longwell [04:40]
• Criminal justice as the last line:
  • “A jury of 12 of your peers is like the closest to an uncorruptible place as there is. So I feel pretty good about that.” – JVL [07:25]
• Cynicism about ‘protection’ arguments:
  • “How insane of an argument that is from Cuomo! ‘Elect me because the authoritarian likes me better than the other guy.’” – Sarah Longwell [10:11]
• On press freedom’s decline:
  • “We now have official state-sanctioned media outlets… They will report only the administration approved news. No different than Xing Zhao or Pravda.” – JVL [18:11]
• Preoccupying threat:
  • “Sometimes people ask…‘What are you most worried about?’ …the media ecosystem is becoming a wholly owned subsidiary of Trump and his allies…It cannot be overstated.” – Sarah Longwell [21:17]

Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|----------------------------------------------| | 01:21 | Opening “secret show” and Bolton indictment | | 03:49 | Sarah’s argument: Bolton v. Trump v. Comey | | 05:15 | JVL: Why Trump’s case is different | | 08:41 | Optimism about juries | | 09:37 | Cuomo’s Trump ‘threat’ warning | | 10:11 | Sarah: “Insane argument from Cuomo” | | 13:59 | National Guard as political weapon | | 15:40 | Pentagon press corps purge | | 16:23 | Comic aside: Frozen villain discourse | | 18:11 | State-sanctioned media explained | | 19:22 | Resistance from legacy/right media | | 21:17 | “Media is increasingly owned by Trump” | | 23:13 | Tease for subscriber section |

Tone & Takeaways

• The episode is dark, sober, and often pessimistic, but not without its trademark snark and banter.
• Fundamental concerns about trends toward authoritarianism, politicized prosecutions, and the erosion of press freedom dominate the conversation.
• Glimpses of hope are found in the jury system, but the hosts express deep worry about democratic resilience, institutional decay, and the rise of a Trump-aligned media ecosystem.

This summary presents the entire substance of the public portion of this “secret show,” letting newcomers grasp both the factual details and the anxious, acerbic spirit that defines The Next Level.