1041: Fear the Reaper | The Secret Podcast

Summary

The Next Level Podcast - Ep. 1041: “Fear the Reaper | The Secret Podcast”

Date: December 12, 2025
Hosts: Sarah Longwell and Jonathan V. Last (JVL)

---

Episode Overview

This episode centers around the intersection of media consolidation, the problematic relationship between political power and corporate media, and the theme of aging—both personal and political—using humor and candid commentary. Sarah and JVL discuss the threats posed by increasing control of media outlets by Trump-aligned figures, concerns over the health and age of both President Biden and Donald Trump, and the internal contradictions within today’s conservatism. They also inject lighter moments through pop culture banter and Sarah’s gym mishaps.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Humorous Intro & Personal Anecdotes

• Sarah opens with a funny story about injuring her back at the gym with her 25-year-old trainer ([01:30]–[04:18]).
  • Quote: “I am 45 years old and my lower back can't take it. And I am barely walking... just like as you mentioned, sometimes your receding hairline is a reminder that you embrace your mortality.” – Sarah ([03:44])
• Banter about Seinfeld, Larry David, and Curb Your Enthusiasm, with Sarah disliking the character Kramer, and expressing discomfort watching Cheryl Hines, now wife of RFK, Jr. ([05:08]–[07:46]).

2. Media Consolidation, Trump Influence, and Democracy

• JVL outlines Donald Trump’s focus on corporate media ownership, particularly CNN, and the emerging oligarchic dynamic in U.S. media ([08:18]–[10:25]).
  • Quote: "Trump only cares about this merger from the perspective of CNN and getting CNN... the only reason he was pushing to get that merger through was to get CBS under Ellison's control." – JVL ([09:46])
• Sarah discusses the dangers of Trump and his allies consolidating power over American media, including social platforms (X/Twitter, TikTok), warning about the implications for democracy ([10:39]–[14:13]).
  • Quote: “The entire communications apparatus is about to be owned by Trump and his pals... that is not enough guys.” – Sarah ([13:11])
  • Quote: “Whenever somebody asks me the question, what keeps you up at night? I'm like, this. This is what keeps me up at night.” – Sarah ([12:48])
• JVL and Sarah agree that a free and independent press is essential for democracy; once media is compromised by political interests, it’s hard to “uncompromise” it ([14:24]–[15:13]).
  • Quote: “It's hard for the corporate media to go back. Right. Like once you've been compromised, it's hard to uncompromise that.” – JVL ([15:10])

3. Critiquing Today's “Conservatism” and Trump Tactics

• Criticism of Trump-aligned Republicans who cloak non-conservative actions (corporate interference, intimidation) as standard GOP behavior ([15:17]–[18:53]).
  • Quote: “Do they think it’s proper for the President of the United States to be openly campaigning for who he thinks should own certain private corporations? Would that be communism?” – JVL ([15:58])
• Sarah and JVL skewer the “normal Republican” defense and detail how Trump’s tactics—blocking deals, threats—contrast historic conservatism ([16:05]–[17:02]).
• Discussion of the Indiana/Heritage Action standoff and speculation about Mike Pence’s role in standing up to Trump. They see this as evidence of some GOP pushback at state levels ([17:00]–[18:08]).
• JVL questions whether Trump’s intervention in private business is conservative at all, arguing it’s a “kleptocracy” rather than capitalism ([18:53]–[19:33]).

4. The Corruption of Capitalism

• Robust exchange over the nature of capitalism and how Trump’s interference represents its corruption, not natural evolution ([19:33]–[20:04]).
  • Quote: “None of this is capitalism. What is happening. It is a total kleptocracy.” – Sarah ([19:28])
• Agreement on the need for more antitrust action and promoting media competition, not more state takeovers ([20:14]–[20:25]).

5. The Age Question — Biden, Trump, and Mortality

• Sarah and JVL transition to Trump’s visible health decline, rumors about his bruised hands, and odd public appearances ([20:35]–[21:21]).
  • Quote: "There's nothing like a groggy billionaire being like, I think you should only have one doll and two pencils." – Sarah ([21:12])
• They sharply critique the double standard in how the media obsesses over Biden’s age but rarely applies the same scrutiny to Trump ([21:32]–[22:50]).
  • Quote: “Dementia is not the bar. Dementia, like the clinical diagnosis of dementia should not be the bar.” – Sarah ([21:32])
• Sarah suggests discussing implications of Trump’s age and health for the next three years in the next segment ([22:50]).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sarah on Media Ownership Threats:
  “The entire communications apparatus is about to be owned by Trump and his pals, with the exception of Ms. Now, I guess. But, like, that is not... enough guys.” ([13:11])
• JVL on Corporate Media Risks:
  “It's hard for the corporate media to go back. Right. Like once you've been compromised, it's hard to uncompromise that.” ([15:10])
• Sarah on What Keeps Her Up at Night:
  “Whenever somebody asks me the question, what keeps you up at night? I'm like, this. This is what keeps me up at night.” ([12:48])
• JVL on Republican Contradictions:
  “Do they think it's proper for the President of the United States to be openly campaigning for who he thinks should own certain private corporations? Would that be communism?” ([15:58])
• Sarah on Capitalism Under Trump:
  “None of this is capitalism. What is happening. It is a total kleptocracy.” ([19:28])
• Sarah on Age and Mortality:
  “Me, unable to walk right now with shooting pains down my back is a reminder that we are all, all of us, every one of us, getting older every day.” ([04:05])
• Sarah on Trump’s Health:
  “There's nothing like a groggy billionaire being like, I think you should only have one doll and two pencils.” ([21:12])
• Sarah on Dementia as a Bar for Leadership:
  "Dementia is not the bar. Dementia, like the clinical diagnosis of dementia should not be the bar." ([21:32])

---

Timestamps of Important Segments

• [01:30]–[04:18] Sarah’s gym injury, banter about aging
• [05:08]–[07:46] Seinfeld/Curb talk; pop culture overlap with politics
• [08:18]–[10:25] Media consolidation, Trump’s interests in CNN and CBS
• [10:39]–[14:13] Threats to democracy via media control, the need for independent media
• [14:24]–[15:13] Once media is compromised, it can’t easily be “uncompromised”
• [15:17]–[18:53] Critique of GOP justifying Trump’s tactics, Indiana political standoff
• [18:53]–[20:25] Debate over what counts as capitalism, antitrust advocacy
• [20:35]–[22:50] Trump’s health and age, contrast with Biden’s media treatment

---

Conclusion and Tone

The podcast delivers sharp political analysis mixed with self-aware humor and concern for the direction of both the media landscape and American democracy. Sarah and JVL blend pop culture references, candid reflections about aging, and a passionate plea for independent journalism. The tone is conversational, urgent, and peppered with irreverent asides—making for an accessible but thought-provoking listen.

---

For More

To hear the continuation of their discussion on Trump’s age and the 2024 election, listeners are invited to join Bulwark Plus.
Bulwark Plus

Transcript

[Rocket Money Advertiser]

You really want to be better with your finances. You try to put money away in savings. You look for deals. You wrote out a budget once a long time ago, yet you still overdraft from time to time. And you still have debt. The truth is, managing money is not easy. But Rocket Money can help. Rocket Money shows you exactly what you're spending every month. From there, the app helps you make a budget that meets your financial goals. The app even gives you real time alerts when you're about to go over your budget so you don't spend too much time with Rocket Money. You can also see all of your subscriptions at a glance and cancel the ones you don't want right from the app. Rocket Money can even try to get you a refund for some of the money you wasted. Plus, you can use the Smart Savings feature to start putting more money away. Rocket Money analyzes your accounts to determine the optimal time to stow away cash without going over your budget. Our members report that the Rocket Money app saved them more than $700 a year. Getting better with money doesn't have to be a pipe dream. Rocket Money can make it a reality. Go to RocketMoney.com cancel or download the app from the Apple app or GOOG Google Play stores.

[Sarah]

Hey, this is Sarah. Look, I'm standing out front of a.m. p.m. Right now and well, you're sweet and all, but I found something more fulfilling, even kind of cheesy. But I like it. Sure you met some of my dietary needs, but they've just got it all. So farewell.

[JVL]

Oatmeal.

[Sarah]

So long you strange soggy.

[AM PM Advertiser]

Break up with bland breakfast and taste AM PM's bacon, egg and cheese biscuit made with K tree eggs, smoked bacon and melty cheese on a buttery biscuit. Am PM too much. Good stuff.

[JVL]

Hello everyone. This is JVL here with my best friend Sarah Longwell, publisher of the Bulwark. And Sarah is playing Hurt. She was in an intense rugby match the other day and she. Oh no, that's not how you introduce yourself, is it?

[Sarah Longwell]

These are lies. I just. I was just so. I. I have been. Because if you recall, if you've been with us for a long time, you know that JVL and I1 time we went through a peloton phase. You went through a yoga phase, a namaste phase. None of those phases held. But I am currently I am back in the gym. I have a 25 year old trainer who's been kicking my ass regularly. She is great but today she was like I got a New machine. I cannot wait to try out this new machine.

[JVL]

What is it?

[Sarah Longwell]

And it's this freaking contraption where you. It's like the shoulders. It's like, it's like a leg press, but the, the. The weights up on the shoulders. Okay.

[JVL]

Are you squatting?

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, it's squatting.

[JVL]

Squatting.

[Sarah Longwell]

But it's on a machine. Right, but I squat with the borrowed time. It's my favorite exercise. Great. Quadriceps. I'm a sturdy person from Pennsylvania. I climbed on this machine with all the confidence in the world, and I unlatched it and I went deep and I pushed back up and I went.

[JVL]

Did you get all the way back up or did she have to rescue you?

[Sarah Longwell]

No. So here's what happened. This is the worst. I'm the worst. Like this. I, like, didn't say anything at first.

[JVL]

Of course not.

[Sarah Longwell]

And so I did my first.

[JVL]

Show weakness.

[Sarah Longwell]

No, I know. Weakness. That's right. I learned this from whiplash and tar. You never show weakness. I want to show weakness in front of some 25 year old former gymnast who, like, you know, can do all the things. So. But it was in the second set where I like, I was like, kamari, I gotta stop. It's too, it's too. And then I hobbled around the gym for the rest of the session. I couldn't pick up my water bottle. And you know what?

[JVL]

Could you reach that for me, dearie?

[Sarah Longwell]

She kept being like, I'll pick it up. All the trainers, they're all children, are all like, what happened to you? And you know, here's the thing.

[JVL]

Do they call you ma' am this baby face?

[Sarah Longwell]

Oftentimes people think I'm younger, but I am 45 years old and my lower back can't take it. And I am barely walking now. I'm barely walking. But it reminded me that just like as you mentioned, sometimes your receding hairline is a reminder that you embrace your mortality.

[JVL]

That's right.

[Sarah Longwell]

Me, unable to walk right now with shooting pains down my back is a reminder that we are all, all of us, every one of us, getting older every day. Do you know who else is getting older?

[JVL]

I mean, everyone, but. But specifically who?

[Sarah Longwell]

Specifically the President of the United States.

[JVL]

Who doesn't look good.

[Sarah Longwell]

He did cure him. Did you watch his press conference? Hold on.

[JVL]

Hold off on the candy.

[Sarah Longwell]

Let's.

[JVL]

Can we. Can we delay on the candy for two minutes? I want to talk about just a couple other things. First, first for. For viewers. When Sarah texted me and said, you know, my, my back boy, I Jacked my back up. And I immediately said, are you shot up full of painkillers like Elaine Bennis? She did not get the reference because Sarah is not a Seinfeld watcher. I'm not in the comments. If you would like Sarah to embark on the journey of discovery that is Seinfeld on Netflix, please let us know because I feel like she needs this in her life and that she'll love it.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah. To be fair, I like, I grew up in the age of Seinfeld.

[JVL]

Yeah.

[Sarah Longwell]

And so I have seen many individual episodes. I get most of their references. However, it is not something I watched. And even now, I don't know, man. I'm not sure Larry David, this is gonna cause like pandemonium.

[JVL]

I want to hear it.

[Sarah Longwell]

Larry David was just not really for me. I recently tried watching Curb youb Enthusiasm. First time. I can't watch it.

[JVL]

So here's. I do not care for Curb youb Enthusiasm either. And it is because the unstructured nature of Larry David and his cringe comedy is not quite for me. And I think think that what the Seinfeld years where Larry David was co running the show with him did was it really melded the strongest parts of both of them. So it melded. I mean, Jerry as a writer was just one of the best comedy writers ever. Like, you know, as a performer, Jerry was not aces. The guy could write. And his tightness and precision mixed with Larry David's sort of looseness in comedy, I think creates like a perfect blend. And you know what it is?

[Sarah Longwell]

Can I just. I'll tell you. Actually, one of my problems. I hate the character of Kramer. I find that character unwatchable, interesting. The bit of him walking in the door all, you know, spazzy. Just like never did it for me. Okay, well, but you know, I will say I actually that I think I gave Curb a try in such recent memory that Cheryl Hines is the wife in it. And I also think part of it was I was like, you're you. Nope, I can't watch you. I. You somehow have married RFK and have stayed married to him while he has not only tried to. I mean, he's obviously doing all kinds of extracurricular things, but it's not even that like what he is doing to the country.

[JVL]

We got a measles outbreak right now.

[Sarah Longwell]

We are in the middle of a measles outbreak right now. Maha, baby. So anyway, anybody who stands by that guy and is married to that guy and isn't speaking out to say, no dice for me.

[JVL]

Truth. Truth. So I.

[Sarah Longwell]

What are we talking about here?

[JVL]

You're back. This is all about your back. People who remember the episode where Elaine goes down to Doka Vista with Jerry and she sleeps on the pullout sofa with the bar in the middle of it. And then she takes the muscle killer, the muscle relaxants and then so she's loopy as anything. And I don't know what. They wind up at some event and Elaine is just coming out going Stella, doing her brand. The whole thing is on just a perfect 22 minutes of comedy.

[Sarah Longwell]

Okay, great.

[JVL]

So I wanted to do just like two minutes on Donald Trump, the President of the United States, who has previously gone on CBS News and talked about how great the new head of CBS News, Barry Weiss, is and how tremendous she is because I guess she's impartial and fearless. That would be why Donald Trump says, you're so good. Yeah. Well, he said at the Kennedy center that it is important that CNN gets sold because he is now knee deep in the giant fight over Warner Brothers Discovery in which Netflix has reached a deal with the Warner's discovery board to purchase the company and David Ellison is launching a hostile takeover bid. And I wrote about this yesterday because what you have is a situation in which David Ellison wants a bunch of the business parts of Warner Discovery. And he, as a business matter, could care less about CNN because CNN is a distant third place network and is part of a declining sector which is linear cable news and is going to declining revenues year over year. And I mean, it's just a bad business and it's a declining business. Trump only cares about this merger from the perspective of CNN and getting cnn. And so it's this overlap of, well, the oligarch understands that he doesn't particularly want to be in this other business, but in order to get the merger that he wants, he needs the President to apply pressure for him. And the way to get the President to apply pressure for him is to promise to take the declining cable network and trumpify it and do to hit same with CBS News. Right. I mean, David Ellison did not CBS News was with the Paramount merger, like, utterly unimportant. It's a small division that makes absolutely no, no difference for what he was trying to do with Skydance and Paramount. But from Trump's perspective, the only reason he was pushing to get that merger through was to get CBS under Ellison's control.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yes.

[JVL]

And all of this just, I mean, I don't want to sound like a hippie and a crazy person, but does highlight the weaknesses of corporate media.

[Sarah Longwell]

So, and to prove to you that I read your Triads, one of my favorites that you have written, and one in which, look, ideas are free. You can't steal them, but sometimes I steal yours. Sometimes we all steal each other's. But one that I think you have been really right about and why I think this is important. Some people don't think these media stories are important. These media stories, to me, they're not everything, but they are a big chunk of what is happening right now, and they have huge implications for the future. One of the things I think you were deeply correct about was a media like ours, a free and independent media require, like, for a democracy like, it can't survive, a president who is trying to put his thumb on the scale of the economic side in order to put pressure on the news side. Right. And maybe I'm. Maybe I'm not. Am I stating your position correctly? Yeah, I think this is to the. We have always talked about how, you know, democracy, the free and the free press. Like, the actual free press being, like an actual free nature, which is why, like, the free press, as Barry Weiss has named it, was actually quite expensive. It was paid for far above market value because Larry Ellison was purchasing the President's buy in on his merger and using Barry Weiss as the shield by which he did that, to say, look, now we've got this person who's going to be far less hostile to us than the regular media, okay? A democracy cannot thrive or even maybe survive in a situation where the President approves every merger. That influence of corporate media that then influences the news coverage of them is absolutely impacting the news coverage. And this is why he wants cnn. And I gotta say, I think that this is an example of Republicans playing the long game in a way that Democrats just seem to be, like, totally not paying attention to. Whenever somebody asks me the question, what keeps you up at night? I'm like, this. This is what keeps me up at night. The fact that there is a wholesale consolidation of corporate media, and that includes the social media networks, the big ones like Facebook.

[JVL]

Right. TikTok belong to the Ellisons.

[Sarah Longwell]

That's right, guys.

[JVL]

Jared Kushner becoming a partner in the. The. Yeah. In the.

[Sarah Longwell]

All of Trump's friends and family are buying the media apparatus. It's Elon Musk owning X. It is the whole thing. I don't think people are alarmed enough that the entire communications apparatus is about to be owned by Trump and his pals, with the exception of Ms. Now, I guess. But, like, that is not. That's not enough guys. And even there they've decoupled it from the network so that it. But it, that makes it harder. Yeah. It makes it more vulnerable. It doesn't have the big end. Impromptu of NBC now, not to mention its reporting and everything else. And so this is a number one. This is why independent media, like has to be the future. But I also just don't understand why the billionaires in the Democratic Party, you guys have your own billionaires, big ones. Stop running for president and go buy some media companies.

[JVL]

Yes.

[Sarah Longwell]

Like Steyer and all. There's so many billionaires either buy or build new stuff or endow it.

[JVL]

Like ProPublica. Right. Was a nonprofit. It's a great model that has worked really well. Yeah. It's all, it's all pretty bad, I think, because. And here is. I sort of mentioned this yesterday whenever you look. And it's primarily through Europe, but sometimes South America. Wherever authoritarian attempts have been turned back and rewound. It has been in part because there's like a dissident media and which again, it just sounds weird and hippie ish. Like, you know. Oh, yeah. But, but it's true. And you know, I feel like we are going to play a part in this. But the thing is it's hard to go. It's hard for the, for the corporate media to go back. Right. Like once you've been compromised, it's hard to uncompromise that.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah.

[JVL]

You can't unfuck that situation.

[Rocket Money Advertiser]

Sorry.

[Sarah Longwell]

This is.

[JVL]

Okay.

[Sarah Longwell]

Trying to move.

[JVL]

Yeah. Yeah. So just hold very still. Hold very still. So I don't know. I, I thought that was all quite worrisome and I, I don't like it. I, I do. I do have one question though for our, for our conservative, our true conservative friends who believe in, in limited government and true conservative. Not this thing that's masquerading as conservatism, which is not conservatism anymore, but real true conservative. They believe in free markets. And do they think it's proper for the President of the United States to be openly campaigning for who he thinks should own certain private corporations? Would that be communism?

[Sarah Longwell]

This is where. Yes, please keep going.

[JVL]

I'm just asking questions.

[Sarah Longwell]

I love Scott Jennings has been on a stupid book tour and as part of his book tour, he likes craps on us. And he specifically kind of like he gets into it with, with Tim. There's been some back and forth there and he. His whole thing. God, I love. This is. Trump's just a normal Republican. Yeah. Little unorthodox tariffs. But we. We are the ones who have changed because Trump is so normal. And I'm like, it's funny to me how he tries to reframe what it is that Republicans stand for. He's like, look, he's still doing. He's just doing normal Republican things. He's cutting red tape and he's doing tax. And I'm like, hey, buddy, how about the part where he is as the. The President, United States is. Is blocking deals, is. Is threatening to withhold. This is the Heritage Action thing. Did you see this?

[JVL]

Heritage Action in Indiana?

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, on Indiana, where they.

[JVL]

Good luck paving your roads. Indiana.

[Sarah Longwell]

The extent to which they are. I mean, we've always talked about them as mob bosses because they've always been acting like this. It's not quite new, but it's so brazen now. And actually it backfired in Indiana, which is nice. This. The signs of. Of, like, a little bit of life from some of these local folks who.

[JVL]

Say, pence, great American hero. Again, I.

[Sarah Longwell]

Do you think he was really whipping them to oppose it?

[JVL]

I cannot believe that this would have happened without Pence at least providing moral support. I mean, he's a former guy.

[Sarah Longwell]

I think that's right. I think that's right. I bet they were calling him.

[JVL]

Somebody must have called Mike Pence and been like, what do you think we should do? And I can't imagine he would have said anything other than, well, you should do whatever you think is in the best interests of Indiana and you should put aside whatever threats the president is making against you because your job is to govern. Right. I mean, that's the least that I think he would have said. And he probably said a great deal more than that.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah. What if he said, screw this guy. Tell him to go pound sand because the vote wasn't even close.

[JVL]

Yeah.

[Sarah Longwell]

But anyway, anyway, the extent to which Trump is playing, using these hardball tactics out in the open to try to intimidate people like, this is. This is the. This is the. We are not just never Trump. Because we're like, well, you know, he doesn't have the foreign policy that we like. This is like the great lie. The great lie is like, well, those neocons just don't like it that he's. Are you kidding me? This guy? If. If we were the warmongers people think we are, we'd be like, oh, look at him. Seizing random oil takers from Venezuela and bombing. Oh, yeah, that's not us, guys. No, we're like, he's not doing the Stuff that the. Yeah, I know.

[JVL]

Give me a little bit.

[Sarah Longwell]

The constitutional stuff is the stuff where Scott Jennings and. And this.

[JVL]

He's taking ownership stakes in intel. Is that conservatism? Is that true conservatism? Having the government take ownership. Ownership stakes.

[Sarah Longwell]

It's a living concern. Is it American? Is it. Is it everything that you have been against your entire career?

[JVL]

Is the President United States coming out and saying who he thinks Facebook should hire for its government relations office? Like, getting involved in private corporations. HR matters. Is that true conservatism? Is that laissez faire capitalism? Very hard for me to parse.

[Sarah Longwell]

None of this is capitalism. What is happening. It is a total kleptocracy.

[JVL]

More. Right, sure.

[Sarah Longwell]

Tell me how this is capitalism.

[JVL]

Because this is the end state of capitalism if left to its own devices. Capitalism.

[Sarah Longwell]

No, this is the corruption of capitalism. Not the end state. The corruption of it.

[JVL]

Capitalism can. Look. This is why. Look, everything. I'm with you.

[Sarah Longwell]

Corrupted.

[JVL]

I'm with you on capitalism, but this is where you and I differ, is like. I feel like in order to prevent this stuff, capitalism needs to be regulated with a little bit of a heavier hand, because otherwise you wind up here. That's. I think that's our difference. That's all.

[Sarah Longwell]

Okay, well, the. The regulation is the regulation. Like the. We don't have state owned. You know, we don't have the state seizing the means.

[JVL]

Yeah, I think more antitrust. More antitrust stuff. No, state seizing the means. More.

[Sarah Longwell]

I'm pro. More antitrust stuff.

[JVL]

I think more competition. Yeah, right.

[Sarah Longwell]

More competition.

[JVL]

Yeah. Okay. I promised that we could talk about Candy and we could talk about Donald Trump and his. So you just give me a little tease here, and then we'll. Then we'll drop the curtain.

[Sarah Longwell]

So there is a lot of current speculation over the bruising of Trump's hands. He's had this MRI thing, and I watched him give his speech in Pennsylvania about how you can only have one doll and two pencils. He's like. The way he sounds. He's like a. I'm just like, there's nothing like a groggy billionaire being like, I think you should only have one doll and two pencils. And I like that. He sounds like he might not make it that much longer. And I have been. You. You. You know, Tim. Tim was always kind of. What does he talk about? The magic. Like the cheeseburger.

[JVL]

Cheeseburger from heaven.

[Sarah Longwell]

And I. You know, that's where I always say, no, no, no, this is not. You know, I'm just Now, I'm not. I'm not wishing for anything.

[JVL]

I'm not overstating, analyzing, just analyzing.

[Sarah Longwell]

But this, like, thing that he's done, where he is, he keeps coming out saying, I took. I took three dementia tests and I aced them. And I would like to pose this. Dementia is not the bar. Dementia, like the clinical diagnosis of dementia should not be the bar. And it's a little bit like, you know, I can sort of hear our listeners in my head saying, how, how is it possible that they could see Joe Biden and talk about his age incessantly and not talk about Donald Trump's age? And I agree that we should talk about Donald Trump's age a lot more than we are, because. And I don't know if it's that people are comforted actually, by the idea that he's maybe old and infirm because it's less. If he's. He feels less threatening, then. But I do think that we should, and I would like to, on the back half of this, talk about Trump's age and what it means for the next three years.

[JVL]

Do have three more years coming. All right, we'll do that on the other side, guys. Just come join. Just do it.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, For Christmas.

[JVL]

Treat yourself.

[Sarah Longwell]

For the holidays.

[JVL]

Treat yourself. No, we can say Christmas again.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, thanks. Thanks. Donald Trump.

[JVL]

Come. Come join with us over at Bulwark plus, we want to have you with us.