Podcast Summary: The Next Level

Host: The Bulwark (Sarah Longwell, Tim Miller, Jonathan V. Last [JVL])
Episode: 1044 – "When Fox News Starts Saying 'Trump is Bad' (and Other Wild Predictions)"
Date: December 31, 2025

Main Theme

The Bulwark trio—Sarah Longwell, Tim Miller, and JVL—reflect on the tumultuous state of U.S. politics and media as 2025 closes, focusing on anxieties and hopes for the coming year under Donald Trump’s presidency. They discuss the erosion of institutional norms, the growing influence of media tech oligarchs, and the unpredictable political, economic, and cultural landscape. The format is a roundtable where each shares two major concerns for 2026 and two sources of hope, punctuated with signature wit and candor.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Financial System Instability & Federal Reserve Politicization

• JVL opens by voicing concern over the “slow breakdown of the financial system,” especially with Trump preparing to appoint a new Federal Reserve Chair who will “slash rates.”
  • Notable Quote:

    “Kevin Hassett is like a fucking sock puppet. He actually looks like a Muppet when you think about it.” (JVL, 02:24)

• They anticipate Trump allies and tech billionaires embedding themselves into this rebuilt system, further muddling trust in economic data.

2. Cryptocurrency Deregulation & Billionaire Power

• Tim raises worries that total crypto deregulation will entwine unstable assets with the financial system.
  • Notable Quote:

    “Our friend Palmer Luckey is creating a new crypto bank which I’m sure will go real well.” (Tim, 03:15)

• Sarah highlights the emergence of “a class of billionaire/trillionaire… who are both allied with Donald Trump” and “have no vested interest in the American experiment surviving.” (04:24)

3. Trump’s Mental State and Leadership Risks

• Tim is especially anxious about the unpredictability stemming from Trump’s age and possible cognitive decline:
  • Notable Quote:

    “I worry a lot about an unwelcome change with an already deeply unstable president that has very few checks on him.” (Tim, 06:51)

• The group jests grimly about the quality of Trump’s inner circle ("Stephen Miller… JD Vance, and Cash Patel"), doubting the nation could rely on them if Trump is incapacitated.

4. Media Consolidation & Tech Oligarch Control

• Sarah's principal fear is unprecedented media consolidation, with tech billionaires acquiring traditional news companies (e.g., Elon Musk owning X, Oracle buying CNN):
  • Notable Quote:

    “At some point, the American people are going to need to wise up to see that these are people who divide us intentionally so that we don’t notice what they’re doing and how much they are consolidating power… This will live on after Trump is gone.” (Sarah, 09:02)

• They debate the impact of captured media on democracy, with Tim distinguishing between legacy media and the "algorithms running people's lives."
  • Tim:

    “Maybe this is Pollyanna, but I’d love to see a populist lefty person that focuses their anger on Zuckerberg and Musk…” (Tim, 10:14)

5. Information Ecosystem & AI Disinformation

• Tim paints a dystopian vision of the next decade’s information ecosystem, dominated by AI and algorithmic feeds designed to “divide them or advance [the oligarchs’] personal financial interests.”
  • Notable Quote:

    “It is possible that we are raising an entire generation of people who are unable to read and are unable to tell truth from fiction…” (Tim, 14:33)

• JVL muses about the radical idea of banning algorithms altogether.

6. Foreign Policy Hotspots: Venezuela and Greenland

• JVL is worried about Trump’s saber-rattling over Venezuela, predicting either a messy regime change or a protracted crisis.
  • Quote:

    “He’s basically committed to regime change…” (JVL, 16:02)

• Tim satirically wonders about Trump’s obsession with Greenland, proposing a not-so-remote possibility of an attempted annexation led by dubious state officials.
  • Quote:

    “Is it possible that the governor of my state might actually invade Greenland?” (Tim, 17:08)

7. Supreme Court’s Impact on Trump and Economic Fallout

• Sarah fears that only “economic pain” (e.g., damage from Trump's trade tariffs) can drive Trump’s popularity below the “Bush line,” but the Supreme Court might protect him from his own policies’ consequences.
  • Quote:

    “My biggest fear is that the Supreme Court is going to save him from himself.” (Sarah, 22:57)

Hopes for 2026

1. Accountability for Trump’s Allies & the Epstein Scandal

• Sarah:
  • Hold out hope that the Epstein case still has legs and might force Trump to answer meaningfully.
  • “Epstein gets worse, not better… Trump eventually has to answer for his Epstein relationship in meaningful ways.” (Sarah, 24:15)

2. Sudden Political Collapse – “The Assad Model”

• Tim:
  • Draws parallels to Assad’s sudden downfall in Syria, hoping a similarly swift unraveling could befall Trump’s power, with allies and right-wing media flipping on him for survival.
  • Notable Quote:

    “People on Fox start to mention it [Trump being bad], and then… we get to the midterms, and his numbers are so bad… that creates like a chain reaction.” (Tim, 26:09)

3. Republican Succession Struggles – Trump vs. JD Vance

• JVL:
  • Foresees a collision between Trump and would-be heir JD Vance, arguing the scenario will be messy because Trump, unlike W. Bush, will never let go.
  • “I really do believe that JD’s entire thing is focused on hoping that Trump isn’t alive come 2028.” (JVL, 30:09)

4. Democratic Overperformance and Building for the Future

• Sarah:
  • Optimistically predicts Democrats will “overperform even the big expectations going into the midterm elections,” laying groundwork for a stronger future.
  • She urges hearings and oversight (not just impeachment) to hold the Trump administration accountable and avoid rallying support around Trump.
  • “This is about more than one election and we have to do rebuilding that goes well beyond just 2026.” (Sarah, 32:09)
• Tim: Wistfully hopes for non-political joys—like a Denver Nuggets championship.

5. The Mask Comes Off: Accelerationism

• JVL:
  • Somewhat darkly, he welcomes the “mask coming off” the MAGA/Griper right, believing a quicker, dramatic split will be less dangerous than a steady decline.
  • Quote:

    “I think it would be good for the mask to keep coming off. The more the mask is off, the better it is for America.” (JVL, 35:28)

6. Future Leadership Fights

• Tim: Hopes for a charismatic, non-extreme right figure to challenge MAGA, lamenting the lack of appealing options:
  • “I want someone new… the non-groiper could use a standard bearer who is not Ted Cruz.” (Tim, 36:20)

Memorable Quotes

• “Kevin Hassett is like a fucking sock puppet. He actually looks like a Muppet…”
  — JVL (02:24)

• “There is a new set of overlords… These are people who divide us so that we don’t notice what they’re doing and how much they are consolidating power.”
  — Sarah Longwell (01:08, 09:02)

• “I worry a lot about an unwelcome change with an already deeply unstable president that has very few checks on, on him. I think could get even more crazy.”
  — Tim Miller (06:51)

• “It is possible that we are raising an entire generation of people who are unable to read and are unable to tell truth from fiction…”
  — Tim Miller (14:33)

• “My biggest fear is that the Supreme Court is going to save him from himself.”
  — Sarah Longwell (22:57)

• “People on Fox start to mention it. And then… we get to the midterms and his numbers are so bad… politicians start to distance and pundits start to distance from them.”
  — Tim Miller (26:09)

• “I really do believe that JD’s entire thing is focused on hoping that Trump isn’t alive come 2028…”
  — JVL (30:09)

• “This is about more than one election and we have to do rebuilding that goes well beyond just 2026.”
  — Sarah Longwell (32:09)

Emotional State & Closing Reflections (39:14–42:39)

• The hosts feel slightly better than a year ago, mainly due to Trump’s camp showing signs of internal strife:
  • “We’re in a worse place than I had thought we would be in, but… I did worry that we wouldn’t actually make it, and here we are. So there’s that.” (JVL, 39:42)
  • Courts are holding up, some hope for democratic resilience.
  • “It feels like we’re still in the fight now.” (Sarah, 42:39)

Important Timestamps

• 01:08 – Sarah on the rise of oligarch overlords
• 02:24 – JVL's blunt assessment of Federal Reserve picks
• 03:42 – Tim & JVL on crypto-dominated futures
• 06:51 – Tim’s fears about Trump’s cognitive decline
• 09:02 – Sarah on media consolidation dangers
• 14:33 – Tim’s AI-information ecosystem doomsday
• 16:02 – JVL on Venezuela crisis
• 17:08 – Tim humorously floats “Governor invades Greenland”
• 22:57 – Sarah’s Supreme Court & Trump’s popularity concern
• 24:15 – Sarah’s hope: Trump and Epstein
• 26:09 – Tim’s “Assad model” hope for Trump’s collapse
• 30:09 – JVL on JD Vance as GOP's conflicted heir
• 32:09 – Sarah on Democratic renewal
• 35:28 – JVL: Letting the “mask come off” on the right
• 36:20 – Tim on the need for appealing non-extremist GOP leaders
• 39:42–42:39 – Outlook for 2026 and personal optimism

Tone

As always, the tone is darkly humorous, cynical yet weirdly hopeful, blending gallows humor (“accelerationism,” “Sock puppet Federal Reserve”) with earnest argument about democracy’s fate. Their banter carries through even the bleakest predictions, making for an engaging and thought-provoking listen.

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