Podcast Summary: The Next Level – "January 6 Was a Dress Rehearsal For Trump, Not a Finale" (with Tom Jocelyn)

Date: January 6, 2026
Host: Bill Kristol
Guest: Tom Jocelyn (lead writer, January 6th Committee report)
Topic: Five years post-January 6th – Its legacy, the Trump presidency, and the threats to American democracy

Episode Overview

Marking the fifth anniversary of January 6th, Bill Kristol and Tom Jocelyn dissect the evolving landscape of American democracy in the age of Trump. Focusing less on the day’s events and more on the ripple effects since, they unpack how January 6th became not the “finale” but the “dress rehearsal” for a post-constitutional era, detailing the normalization of election denial, the breakdown of accountability, and the entrenchment of authoritarian movements inside American politics.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. The Lasting Impact of January 6th

(01:32 – 03:54)

• Jocelyn asserts we're "living in the January 6th world": not just a memory but a set of ongoing norms and behaviors.
• No meaningful accountability for Trump or his inner circle.
• Trump’s blanket pardons—including for extremist group leaders—set a precedent, signaling who counts as "heroes" in the new order.
• Notable Quote:

  "There’s been no accountability for January 6th in the long run here for America. And that's a very dire state to be in, I think." (02:23, Tom Jocelyn)

2. Pardons as a Watershed Moment

(03:13 – 06:13)

• Trump’s blanket pardons—contrary to expectations that extreme actors would be excluded—solidify a narrative making insurrectionists "martyrs".
• The public and media outcry faded rapidly, and Trumpists took the lesson that “you can get away with anything.”
• Notable Quote:

  "It showed that we were going to live in that broken reality...where the people who attack them are the ones who are being celebrated by the government." (03:54, Tom Jocelyn)

3. Polarization, Media, and Conservative Acquiescence

(06:13 – 09:24)

• Deep political polarization means half the country excuses or even celebrates January 6th, while the other half is in a "truth echo chamber".
• Conservative establishment voices—Wall Street Journal, National Review, business types—quickly moved on, surrendering to Trumpist narratives.
• Shift: the GOP is now "the party and the thinking of Alex Jones," not Reagan.
• Notable Quote:

  "It's much more the party now and the thinking of Alex Jones than it is Ronald Reagan. That’s where this has ended up." (07:51, Tom Jocelyn)

4. Institutional Breakdown: Justice System and Congress

(09:24 – 14:09)

• Judicial delays, non-cooperation by Supreme Court and judges like Cannon, helped Trump evade real consequences.
• House Republicans' release of Jack Smith’s transcript was designed not to break through MAGA media cocoons.
• Speed with which Trump regained control of GOP despite impeachment and loss of power is "astonishing."
• The mob/cult of personality is Trump’s true leverage.
• Notable Quote:

  "He had lost—The mob is the leverage he had, you know, his mob and his cult of personality. And that's what he's leveraged over and over again." (13:21, Tom Jocelyn)

5. Trump’s New Election Threats and Executive Overreach

(15:43 – 21:00)

• The administration’s ongoing actions to undermine elections:
  • Aggressive gerrymandering (esp. Texas).
  • Trump essentially acting as both president and "speaker".
  • Executive orders like “Preserving and protecting the integrity of American elections” are inversions—meant to enable intervention, not integrity.
  • DOJ lawsuit campaign to collect all state voter registration data into a centralized database.
• Trump's core impulse: exerting control over election outcomes, not letting “chips fall.”
• The danger is amplified: Now Trump has a DOJ, DHS, and officials willing to follow unlawful orders, unlike 2020.
• Notable Quote:

  "Living in the January 6th world means we live in a world in which the leader has no respect for our elections or outcomes." (16:23, Tom Jocelyn)

6. The "Velociraptor" Analogy – Authoritarian Learning Curve

(21:00 – 25:13)

• Trump and movement learned from 2020’s failures; now have loyalists in key government roles ready to follow through.
• The “raptors open the cage” metaphor: The regime has figured out how to override institutional guardrails.
• Threats like use of National Guard, ICE, and federal troops to interfere in blue cities/elections are real and ominous.
• The contradiction: “Conservatism” now seeks a maximum concentration of federal executive power—what it once claimed to oppose.
• Notable Quote:

  "Coming in this time, Trump learned in the lead up to January 6th that he needed a DOJ that would be pliable... He made sure that wasn't the case this time around." (21:00, Tom Jocelyn)

7. The Need for Opposition and Civic Response

(22:36 – 29:25)

• Only a “functioning competitor”—i.e., a revitalized Democratic Party and state-level resistance—can check the executive’s power.
• 2026 is as crucial as 2028—the first step is “stopping the Trump regime’s monopolization of federal power”.
• The center-left must “own a constitutional form of patriotism” and not let the right monopolize American symbols while acting in ways contrary to constitutional values.
• Notable Quote:

  "The modern right is a post constitutional movement and they have a post constitutional leader." (26:49, Tom Jocelyn)

  “It's why we need the center left to really own a constitutional form of patriotism… not allow the right to wrap itself in this disfigured patriotism any longer." (28:50, Tom Jocelyn)

Memorable Quotes by Segment (Timestamps MM:SS)

• On the lack of accountability:
  "There’s been no accountability for January 6th in the long run here for America. And that's a very dire state to be in." (02:23, Jocelyn)

• On Trump’s blanket pardons:
  "We now live in the January 6th world where the officers are not the heroes ... We live in a world where the people who attacked them are the ones being celebrated by the government." (03:54, Jocelyn)

• On the transformation of conservatism:
  "This is much more the party now and the thinking of Alex Jones than it is Ronald Reagan." (07:51, Jocelyn)

• On the power of the mob:
  "The mob is the leverage he had, you know, his mob and his cult of personality. And that's what he's leveraged over and over again." (13:21, Jocelyn)

• On what’s at stake:
  "Living in the January 6th world means we live in a world in which the leader has no respect for our elections or outcomes." (16:23, Jocelyn)

• The raptor analogy:
  "The Velociraptors have learned how to open their cages... Trump learned ... he needed a DOJ that would be pliable... He made sure that wasn't the case this time around." (21:00, Jocelyn)

• On the right’s shift:
  "The modern right is a post constitutional movement and they have a post constitutional leader." (26:49, Jocelyn)

• On civic response:
  "We need the center left to really own a constitutional form of patriotism...not allow the right to wrap itself in this disfigured patriotism any longer." (28:50, Jocelyn)

Closing Thoughts

Kristol and Jocelyn stress that the “January 6 world” is not just about one day, but about the erosion of constitutional norms and the entrenchment of anti-democratic powers. They call for vigilance, civic engagement, and a unified defense of the rule of law—at every level, and on every front—as both the short-term and long-term struggle for American democracy continues.

Segment Timestamps

• [01:32] – Introduction and lasting impact of January 6th
• [03:13] – Trump’s pardons and rewriting the narrative
• [06:13] – Polarization, media, and conservative acquiescence
• [09:24] – Institutional breakdown and Trump’s control of GOP
• [15:43] – Current administration’s threats to elections
• [21:00] – “Velociraptors” and authoritarian learning curve
• [22:36] – Importance of 2026, two-party competitiveness, and civic response
• [26:49] – The post-constitutional right and the need to reclaim patriotism
• [28:50] – Final thoughts and call to action

This episode offers a bracing but clear-eyed assessment of how January 6th bent the trajectory of American politics—and how the coming years demand a concerted, principled defense of democracy.