D (2:23)

Remain true.

C (2:23)

January 13th there's been a new. There's been a second. You know, there's been now a refocus on his authoritarian aspirations, which are related to, but separate from his political prospects, you know, because I think there's some elements of the authoritarian effort that are less likely if he's looking weaker and weaker politically. But you know, these things can exist. We live in a complex world, you know. And so I don't know in the same week of podcasts where we were talking about how weak Trump was, which is great, we also did our New Year's predictions where we all were like Donald Trump. We're like a corner. Donald Trump is going to try to grab onto power. And an 81 year old mentally declining man, who knows what he could do. I, you know, I think that all of these things exist together in our horrible reality is all I'm saying.

D (3:19)

Yeah. Look, everything we are going to talk about today, whether it is Minnesota, whether it's the Fed, I can't remember what the other topics are.

C (3:30)

The new tramp stamp on the White House.

D (3:32)

Yeah, sure.

B (3:35)

Venezuela, I'm the captain now.

D (3:38)

Venezuela. Every single one of them is. It's the same story. And it is this and, and this is, it is true that I've also had maybe a more bleak. The Minnesota thing has been more bleak for me than lots of other political news. And it is as close as I have come to sort of JVL's one of his most negative outlooks which is that Americans, if not outright want authoritarianism, are not certainly aren't hostile to it. And I will say I don't agree with that always like broadly certainly mag Republicans. But the extent to which people are willing to be gaslit against the things they see with their own eyes in and being willing to sort of say yeah, they have all the power. You cannot contradict something an ICE agent says. You cannot push back. Protest is domestic terrorism. This is we have. It's not that it's a tipping point exactly. But I would say in totality when you put this story together, this is as Trump at his most authoritarian. Is authoritarianistic a word? It is most authoritarian. Yeah. And I've been pretty despondent at because to Tim's point like the political realities are still there. Like I'm doing focus groups. People are not happy about a lot of the things they are seeing. They are not happy about ice. Like there is frustration. It's just not, it is not proportional to what he is doing. It's Greenland and it's Venezuela, it's saber rattle rattling at Cuba. All of it is Trump with a might makes right unlimited force. No one can check me. No one can say boo to my like new Paramilitary soldiers that I'm putting in the field. It is the most scared that I've been in terms of we are starting to move into the place where Trump is the corner, does recognize the political realities, does feel cornered and is behaving like it.

C (5:59)

Well, it's also the lesbian murder and just the people don't care about her life. And I think that's okay. I don't. Maybe that's wrong. I mean, I'm projecting that onto you. But I was. I always said that about the Andre situation with me, and I don't, you know, I'm not the biggest identity politics person, but there's some elements of identity politics that touch on something real, which is that, like, you just have. I would. I have a natural, more emotional reaction if it's, you know, a little gay or somebody from my neighborhood or whatever. You know what I mean? Then. Then you do. That's just human nature. And, and just the way with which, like, people have not only had no empathy for Renee Good, but have castigated her and. And that she.

B (6:39)

Hate her.

C (6:40)

They hate her and they hate her girlfriend or partner, whatever it was, especially. And the. The language that is used about her is just despicable.

D (6:49)

Well, if we're going to talk about the specifics of Minneapolis, I will say this has been now litigated pretty thoroughly in terms of people have taken their sides and people, you know, you know that this police officer was circling her vehicle while Renee Good said to him, like, it's okay, bro. I'm not mad at you. Like, we're fine. While her wife was being quite mouthy and like, kind of doing. And like, that scenario, part of it is like, it just rang so, so familiar to me of like, that woman.

C (7:29)

You know, some lesbian couples like that.

D (7:32)

I've seen that.

C (7:33)

How does that work in your. Now, does that work in your household? Do we have. Does that stereotype work in your household?

D (7:39)

It doesn't quite work exactly in my. But, but listen, as a mouthy lesbian myself, I will say that the like way in which this administration actively works to other her and its mouthpieces, right? Matt Walsh and everybody else, the goal is to say she's not really just a regular American guy. She's not really just one of you. She's a lesbian and therefore coded left and therefore a domestic terrorist. Like the way in which domestic terrorist kind of rolls off their tongue as somebody who was protesting and somebody who was objecting that that is domestic terrorism. And then they're going to investigate, they're going to Investigate who's paying for this. Meaning anybody who funds anything that is seen as progressive or of the left is participating in domestic terrorism. Which means everything, everything is a pretext. It's the same way where they're talking about, like, you know, okay, Maduro, they went and grabbed him. Okay. But like now they're like, but Greenland and Cuba and, and. And like it. And wherever. It's all like, we're going to figure out a pretext later. Like, they're so glad it was a lesbian that was doing it because they're like, ah, that's our in. That's the DEI woke Marxist lesbians. They're not real Americans. They're the people that we can investigate. They're the people whose lives matter less. They're the ones that you hate. And I don't know, Tim, I don't know that I felt it. It felt like. It did feel like a little bit more familiar in some way, I guess because she's a lesbian. I. But like, it would be the same thing if, if the person had been black. It would have been the same thing if it had been anybody who is. Who doesn't look exactly like the posters that they put up about finding new American workers. You know, just like this white dude.

B (9:39)

I think we aren't being dark enough. And the.

D (9:44)

I can go darker right now.

B (9:45)

The behavior of DHS following this has not. I mean, for. Forget being chastened, they haven't even been professional. Like, there has been no. This was. This was a real outlier case. And as we do in all officer shootings, we have an ongoing investigation into it. We're not going to comment on this or none of that. It's been pure. Yeah, that's right. She got what was coming to her. We haven't seen the ice. ICE agents on the street saying that there's a video of them, you know, kicking over candles at her memorial and which is again, like. Like we saw when they were in D.C. tearing down, you know, like signs in public. They didn't like saying to another protester, yeah, you know, hey, you saw what happened, right? This is. And we don't seen a couple videos.

C (10:37)

Like that with separate ICE guys saying to other protesters, like, you saw what happened to that other one, like, using it as a threat.

B (10:44)

They're still staffing up, they're still bringing.

C (10:47)

Sending people to Minnesota.

B (10:48)

Here in New Orleans, people. Right. Another thousand. I was really struck by your interview with the Minneapolis mayor, Tim, when he talked and I thought when he said, you know, we're so outnumbered And I thought, oh, that can't be right. I went, There's 600 police officers in Minneapolis and that's against 2400. 2400 ICE agents now. And Kristi Noem said that they're going to send an additional thousand.

A (11:14)

So.

B (11:15)

Outnumbered six to one.

A (11:19)

Yeah.

D (11:19)

And you know what I mean?

B (11:20)

That is. That is an invasion.

D (11:22)

Yeah. I don't know how they're being adversarial too. It's not like they're coming in to. To de. Escalate. They're going in to escalate and they're not. They're not working with the police officers on. So I was just. I was just doing the illegal news with Asha and Gaba, who was an FBI agent, and she was talking about the fact that, like, when there's a shooting like this, you don't. You get. The ICE officers aren't allowed to flee the scene. Like, the gun immediately should go to ballistics. You work with the officials on the ground. Like the FBI doesn't do it. Like, this is what happened when you had the shooting of Charlie Kirk. Right. If the FBI had been in charge of it, nothing would have happened. Right. It took the local officials, they were on the ground to do the work because Cash Patel was completely out to lunch. But they, but like they are going to whitewash and cover up this whole thing. They're not going to do an investigation.

C (12:11)

Well, they actually are going to do an investigation. I don't know if you've seen the breaking news that just hit since we've been on here. We can do this live. But six federal prosecutors in Minnesota resigned today over the Justice Department's push to investigate. Guess who.

D (12:25)

You want to guess Jerome Powell?

C (12:27)

Nope. Her widow, the mouthy lesbian.

D (12:31)

They're going to investigate her?

C (12:32)

Well, they're trying to. There was a federal Justice Department pushed to investigate the woman, the partner of Renee Goode. And six prosecutors have already resigned. Good on them in Minnesota today over that. Various questions. So, yeah, they're doing an investigation. Just not of the murderer. Just not of the guy that shot her three times in the face. Yeah, they're gonna take the victim's family and look into her and make her life even more miserable while she mourns. You know why they deal with what to do with their 6 year old who's an orphan now because her husband from a previous marriage has also died. It's just fucking sick what these people are doing.

B (13:10)

Can I ask an accelerationist? This is not. I'm not advocating this.

C (13:13)

Well, they're accelerationist. I should just say, this is what me and Bill are talking about yesterday. That's what they're doing.

B (13:17)

I know, I know. So when you interview Jacob Fry, you asked him, like, is there anything the Minneapolis police can do? And his answer was, I. Unbelievably revealing and kind of chilling. And he said, you know, no one is allowed to break the law. So in theory, we could arrest them if we saw them breaking the law by brutalizing people. But the reality is we're outmanned and outgunned, and we couldn't because it would start, you know, it'd be like the okay Corral, and they'd kill us because there are so many of them.

C (13:49)

Can I say this about Mayor Fry? I thought that was a super interesting answer. I'm glad you brought that up, because I asked the question, and maybe not, because I just. I don't know. I didn't want to be the person that was the accelerationist. So it wasn't maybe as precise of a question as I could have asked, which was like, do you think that can your cops arrest the ICE agents? Like, would have been the precise question. And do you think that they should? And I asked it in more of a kind of roundabout way. And he starts by giving a politician a generalized answer to that question, and then stops in the middle of it. He goes, but I think what you're asking is, can we arrest their agents or not?

B (14:26)

Yeah.

C (14:27)

And. And was then gave a very blunt answer, which is what you just laid out, and then kind of. I should just say the end of that. He's like, but we are still. Like, it's not practical to think that we could do that. But, like, we're not ruling anything out. I don't have to quote in front of me, but. But I thought that was super telling.

B (14:43)

Should the governor activate the National Guard and send them into Minneapolis to keep the people of Minneapolis safe?

D (14:49)

No.

C (14:50)

Well, the current governor is William Duck, so why not?

D (14:54)

Because they're all operating under Donald Trump. Under his orders right now.

B (14:58)

Well, the mini. So the State National Guard would be under control of the governor unless the president then went on top of him and said, I'm taking charge of it. So it would.

D (15:08)

Which is what he would do.

B (15:09)

President. So if we're being accelerationists here, we should.

D (15:15)

I'm not.

C (15:16)

I know.

B (15:17)

I'm just asking questions. Just asking questions there. I'm not advocating this position. I'm just asking.

C (15:22)

If I don't. I don't. Could. I don't know. You're being a little Cheeky. I don't think that. I don't think any of this is crazy. And I think any of this is. I think that people. And what I've heard from, from friends and listeners on the ground in Minneapolis is that like, it's as bad as it seems. It's worse than it seems. Right? Like that. Like the, you know, sometimes it's hard on the outside to like get a grasp on. Okay, I've seen these three viral videos of these guys acting insane. And that's not to excuse those three, but is that, you know what I mean? Do I have a full grasp on what's happening? And my understanding is that, like, people are very chilled. People are being asked to, you know, I. They're going into daycares, they're going into the targets. Like people. These are. This neighborhood that Renee Good got killed in is just like, we can all just look at it. And it's a. Whatever middle, upper middle class neighborhoods, like 30 blocks outside of downtown Minneapolis. Like, it's not, you know, some, it's not some gang hood, you know. And so I just, I don't think that it's. And they've killed a woman and they're, they're harassing citizens. I'm not, I'm not saying for this either, but I'm like, it's not crazy to think, like, I don't know, maybe the, maybe the prosecutor in, in Hennepin county should be prosecuting Ross. Maybe then maybe the governor and mayor should be thinking about how, like how to protect people. I don't know. That's not crazy.

D (16:49)

Well, it's not. It's not crazy to be thinking about protecting people. I guess the question is, is whether the National Guard. The reason that JBL is categorizing it as accelerationist is because I think the obvious rejoinder or the, the outcome of that is an escalation of tensions right now. What the State National Guard, what is going to do battle with ICE and the Federal National Guard. Like you are talking about flooding a space with American soldiers and law and quasi law enforcement and then setting them up in opposition to one another, which I'm not. I'm not there on the ground. I can't make these types of decisions. But I, I don't know if I would if I were there, if I would think that was the best thing for the citizens. I'm not sure it's not, but I'm not.

C (17:39)

I agree with you. Yeah. That's what my point was, that I'm not sure it's Not I'm with you guys. I'm not sure I'm with you guys, but I'm not sure. It's not as crazy enough, right, like that you're in this, that you're in this situation. And especially as more people are coming in and descending on this and descending on the city and maybe there's a less escalatory like, okay, well, I'm not trying to, you know, create some sort of constitutional crisis over who controls the Minnesota National Guard, but I don't know, are there certain communities that need police protection? Right? Like just, just one example. Is this coming to mind? I don't know because I, I don't, I don't know enough about like where the high density of Somali comm, you know, is Minneapolis. But just like one example is that, that video, the Uber driver that I did a take on yesterday, he's like, he's like, basically in, in Minneapolis, like most of the Uber drivers are Somali. Not all of them, but like a huge percentage, right? And so, you know, there is like a parking lot at the airport where Uber drivers sit and wait for people to call their Uber when they land. And Bavino and his thugs like went and like raided the parking lot and started asking the drivers for like their pro proof of citizenship. I don't, you know, I don't know. Are there communities like that that like, you should just say, okay, hey, we're going to put a cop, you know, we're going to, we're going to post some, I don't know, lawyers there or cops there. I don't know. I mean like all of this stuff is stuff they at least have to be having meetings about.

B (19:06)

It's something else. This episode of the Next Level is brought to you by Wild Grain. Wild Grain is the first baked from frozen subscription box for sourdough breads, artisanal pastries and fresh pastas. Plus, all items conveniently bake in 25 minutes or less. Unlike many store bought options, Wild Grain uses simple ingredients you can pronounce and a slow fermentation process that can be easier on your belly and richer nutrients and antioxidants. There's no preservatives and no shortcuts. Wild Grains boxes are fully customizable. In addition to their new variety box, they have a gluten free box, a vegan box and a new protein box. Life can get chaotic. The past two weeks, the news has been moving a mile a minute. We've been cranking out podcasts and takes in newsletters and it's brought me so much peace of mind knowing that I can count on a delicious, easy to prep protein box when I need it most. And I have to tell you, this, this thing, Wild Grain absolutely killed it in my house. My family has never been so excited about any box we've ever gotten. The chocolate croissants, Unbelievable. The sourdough breads, Unbelievable. The cookies, they do cookies, too. I'm just telling you, all of my kids went nuts. We are actually going to be starting our own subscription because they love it so much. Be great if Wild Grain wanted to comp me for that, but otherwise I'm just going to pay out of pocket. There's nothing like having an artisanal bakery in your freezer to chase away the winter chill. Now is the best time to stay in and enjoy comforting homemade meals with Wild Grain. Highly recommend giving Wild Grain a try. Right now, Wild Grain is offering our listeners $30 off your first box, plus free croissants for life when you go to wildgrain.com thenextlevel to start your subscription today. That's $30 off your first box and free croissants for life when you visit wildgrain.com thenextlevell. Or you can use the promo code thenextlevel at checkout.

C (21:11)

Artisanal.

B (21:12)

Artisanal.

C (21:13)

Artisanal. I think maybe to you, you're not an artisanal eater. You know, you're a man of the people. I think that's a good.

B (21:19)

That's why I like product that'll give me free croissants for life because I'm a man of the people. Can we just do a two seconds on J.D. vance? Did you think he would go this far? I did. I'm not surprised.

D (21:33)

I'm not surprised.

B (21:34)

Are you guys surprised? Not surprised either. No.

D (21:36)

He's the. He's. He is. He is the living worst JD would.

C (21:39)

Will be on board for if Trump tries to steal the next one.

D (21:43)

He'll be 100%.

C (21:44)

I mean, like, there's nothing. JD's on board for whatever.

B (21:47)

I think that JD is absolutely down for whatever. Yeah. And that he's full white replacement. Full. I mean, full.

C (21:56)

All of it.

B (21:58)

No.

D (22:01)

You know, remember I used to have this argument with people a lot where they would be like, Ron DeSantis is worse than Trump. You know, And I would be like, no, I'm not. No, Trump. Trump is in his own category of things that he is doing. His influence over J.D. vance. Like J.D. vance's ability to both study at his feet and then say, I know how to go further than this. I know how to message this. I know how to be the attack dog on this. I have no sense of morality or no sense of my own internal, you know, locus of decency. Like, I am full on will take what this guy is doing, and I'll take Shay 40 years off of it. And so I don't. It's not even worth getting into, like, worse or better. I just think that there is not. Now we can look and see right in front of us that JD Vance is an extension of everything that is wrong and evil about Trump and has 40 more years on him.

C (23:06)

I just say, look, think about that press conference. And we've already done all the commentary about the actual substance of what he said, but the fact that he was like, put his hand up. Right. You know what I mean? It's like this woman who's clearly not a threat to anybody, gets gunned down in the street by agents of the state. And as you wrote, well, in your newsletter, jvl, there are a lot of ways that you could handle that. That might not be how we would want it, but that would have at least been professional. And they decided to not do that. To lie about her, to defame her, to run her through the mud now, apparently, to investigate her, her family. And JD Was like, yeah, like, put me in, coach. I want to go out there and be the face of the effort to defame this woman and. And to. And to run her name through the mud.

D (23:55)

And to lie to people.

C (23:56)

And to lie to people. Yeah, because he didn't have to do that. I mean, I don't know. Has he been. How many times he been behind that podium? Couple. You know, it's not like weekly. It's not like you just happened to fall on Weekly Wednesdays with J.D. you know, I. He put his hand up and was like, I want. This is. I want to go put on this show. Because he's a sociopath.

B (24:16)

Well, I think also because he. This is how he heads off a primary challenge.

C (24:21)

Yeah. He sees anything.

B (24:22)

If this is. If there's nobody who can get to his right on anything, because that was always the danger for him, I think, was that some populist demagogue from sort of outside the administration could come in and say Trump never went far enough. And JD Is, I think, closed that off. I don't think there's any room for anybody to run to his right. Is that wrong?

D (24:50)

I think you're getting there. Especially if I would say right now, just right now, his main competition would be Rubio. Right. It's sort of like his main ally in the administration is Rubio. And Trump puts them together, like, on a ticket right now as a potent ticket. And I. You can see. Watch, watch. Is already happening in the press. But you're going to see more of this where there's going to be a nudge of. But what about Rubio? How did Rubio become this guy? How did he go from little Marco to Trump's attack dog? But here's where J.D. vance. This is why he puts his hand up. Marco Rubio is doing all this. He's getting a strange new respect from Maga for the things he's doing because he's being such a loyalist to Trump. But he's doing the unpopular stuff. He's doing the Venezuela. He's doing the stuff that's counter to America First, Whereas JD Van Iran, JD Vance is like, go, give me the domestic stuff. Give me the stuff that the America Firsters care about, which is our. Our paramilitary force, you know, going after the lesbians. It's funny, I ask about J.D. vance, you know, in a lot of the focus groups, and do you know what? The one thing Everybody knows about J.D. vance is the count. It's the child is cat ladies. It's like he. Yeah. His hostility to women. And this is one of the things that I think is interesting as we move forward with JD Vance's future is women in particular don't warm to him. And that child is childless cat ladies thing just. It's stuck. It's stuck in ways that lots of other things don't.

C (26:24)

I just want to throw one little small caveat about this, which is that kind of somewhat silly story, because nobody really thinks that Steve Bannon's gonna be the president. But the idea that Bannon's thinking about running in 2028 to help control the narrative, basically, to help kind of define the policy, the contours of the policy debate. And I think the one way where JD could end up finding himself with issues to the right of him would be if we go back to the December. The halcyon days of December 26, and, like, think about, like, how the Trump, like, if the Trump political project really collapses, you know, and Nick. And particularly economically, I do think. I don't know who the person is to carry this because it's not Bannon, but, you know, kind of a Bannon Hawley ism. That's like, these guys got so focused on what was happening other places, and, you know, we need to take care of our People, you know, wink. I think it's potentially. He's slightly vulnerable to that. And he doesn't have control over that, though, because he's just the vice president. If Trump goes crazy and the economy tanks, like, it's not like the vice president can do anything to fix it. So I think that he's trying to control what he can control as far as.

B (27:31)

But that to the right, that hurts him in a general election. I don't think the economy tanking touches him at all in a Republican primary because they don't care about that. They care about hurting the brown people.

C (27:43)

Yeah. It depends on how out of touch he seems. I probably agree with you. I just. I want to leave open the possibility that, like, that they have.

D (27:50)

It depends on who he's running against. It depends on who he's running against, too.

B (27:55)

Because nobody. Right. I mean, o', Bannon, if you assume.

D (28:00)

Oh, no, no. I'm sorry.

C (28:01)

I meant.

D (28:02)

I meant the Democrat. I meant the Democrat he ends up running against.

C (28:05)

I'm kind of excited for a Bannon Ted Cruz JD Vance debate. Hope we make it to that tv.

B (28:11)

Trump is still going to be in office anyway. He's not. Not leaving. Did Jerome Powell win? That was the other day. So, Tim. Tim's prediction for 2026 was worried about Venezuela, my big dark horse. Worry for. Very concerned about what he's going to do with Fed and Fed Independence. Who are the big winners? These guys.

D (28:32)

Well, mine was that we were going to go into a Trump session, which I think soon. I think I'm going to come up late, but I think I'm going to get there. You're going to get there? Go ahead. Well, what's the question? Is, is he.

B (28:46)

Did he win? So Jerome Powell did something extraordinary over the weekend. He released a videotaped statement in which he just called things by right names. There was no, like, well, there's no pussy footing around. There was no, well, you know, we have to respect the process, whatever. He was just like, this is gangsterism. This guy is doing this because he's trying to take over the Fed. This is bullshit. We out. And I don't know, like, he got a couple of Republicans in Congress coming up on his side because of it. He was super butch for him.

D (29:25)

Okay? It's the economists who are gonna save us. God help us. I want to say his. When I watched it, I, like, walked around showing it to other people. I was like, look at what Jerome Pal.

B (29:36)

Totally normal.

D (29:37)

Because that was.

C (29:38)

I was with you because I was seeing a lot of A lot of praise on social media. Then I watched, you know, the first 45 seconds, he does do some throat clearing. And then finally around the one minute mark, I was like, whoa, Jerome girl, go. Yeah.

D (29:50)

He's literally actually doing throat clearing. Like, this is not a guy who does straight to camera. You can hear the mic is so tight. You can hear him kind of swallowing hard as he's. As he's getting ready to drop this. But here's. I want to diagram Jerome, what Jerome Powell did just a little bit, because sometimes people are like, Sarah, what do you mean offense? Or, like, what would you do? How would you do it? And I want to say this is how it's done in the, like, big kid world. Like, this is NFL caliber comms. Here's what he did. He went straight to camera. He dropped it on his official account. He called Republicans in advance and said, here is what he is doing. I need you to be with me. Like, he knew he had backup. He demanded that they back him up. He advocated for himself. And then he went on and in a no frills, no frothing at the mouth, but did clearly and with conviction state that it was pretextual that Trump was trying to bully him, that Trump was making things up, that he had been clear about how he'd communicated with Congress. And I thought it was a masterclass in how things should be done. When I'm saying to people, like, go on offense, do things, it's like, don't just wait. Don't just sit back and let Trump do things to you. Go out and make your case. Do it seriously. Do it soberly. And I think he looks. He looks like the serious one there. And he is one of the first people. When he made that appeal, Republicans were like, yeah, we're gonna have his back.

B (31:23)

He does it like, 24 hours after the news breaks that. That the administration's coming for him. Like, didn't wait.

D (31:31)

Yeah.

B (31:31)

You know, he didn't even let a single news cycle get through because it happened on a weekend. So, like, you're 12 hours into the news cycle and he's like, here's the response.

D (31:40)

Whatever crisis comms firm he has on retainer is like, they were ready for it. He was ready to go.

C (31:46)

And he's winning. Yes. If he won, you know, who knows? But his term ends in May. May, you know, and so we really are, like, staring down the barrel of, like, that's going to be a crisis point. Right. When Trump decides who to replace him with. Like, is Trump kind of like, there are ways for Trump to probably go around the crisis. Like, I don't have a ton of faith in old Thom Tillis, you know, to be Mr. Backbone here. And so, you know, you do think that could Susie or whoever's in charge of this call Tillis and say, would you be for Wash? You know, would you be for. Right. And, like, could they find an acceptable Kevin to put in there? You know, so. And I do think that, like, Trump has the clock on his behalf, and if he doesn't act totally insane and just puts up a. Just a plausibly acceptable nominee, my guess is that the Republican Senate will cower again because that's what they keep doing. So at some level, like, well, does that mean Trump will have won the long. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know your definition is of winning or losing, but certainly power won the short term.

D (32:55)

It also depends on what one means. But, like, he's doing the right thing. Like, this is. He's. He's. He's setting up a way for, like, this is how responsible people respond in the face of this kind of thuggish behavior.

B (33:11)

Do you think Thom Tillis voted for Trump?

C (33:13)

I was thinking.

B (33:14)

I was asking that of myself while. While we were watching his. His reading his statement and him, you know, with his, like, ah, you know, I can't believe this corruption of the. Of the Justice Department. Obviously, he knows this never would have happened under the Harris administration.

C (33:30)

Yes. Thom Tillis voted for Trump. Yes. This is like the Melania discussion for me. I hate it when people are, like, in private, Melania and Usha are really upset. It's like, Thom Tillis's public behavior is his public. And if he did fuck him, if he, like, put in the. In the booth, he closed the window and he writes in Jack Kemp or whatever. Fudge you. I just. So, I mean, he voted for Trump for all.

D (33:53)

That's true. There's not actually a good answer to this question. If he voted for Kamala, it's not okay. Because he still then knows how bad Trump is. Was willing to vote for the Democrat, but publicly, you know, covers for Trump.

B (34:04)

Sarah, Sarah, it's not how bad Trump is. It's how bad Trump's advisers are.

D (34:08)

Yeah.

B (34:09)

Oh, I said in his statement, he's just getting bad advice.

D (34:14)

Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I'm not. I am not. I'm not the least bit impressed with Murkowski or any of the people who are coming out in favor of this or, Sorry. Are coming out. Coming to Powell's Defense like the meager bar that we have for them just because they clear it one out of every six times. I am, I am not impressed. I'm more impressed with him in that. What it signals to me is that he knew how to marshal the backup, that he needed to be on his own footing. Like Trump can't get a big. Yeah.

B (34:52)

Either of you. I. Not trying to make anybody be a commie, but either of you at all concerned that the market saw the President United States attempt to jail the head of the central bank and just shrugged.

D (35:06)

So I'm not surprised. And not even because. No, no, no. But. But not in your commie way. More that I think the markets are pricing Taco in like, they just, they like this isn't going to happen. They saw the Murkowski thing. Like, they're like, Trump's not going to get him or Trump can't get him, and that's why they reacted like that. They're probably comforted by this.

B (35:32)

Okay.

C (35:33)

Yeah. I don't. I, I think the market's basically fake. Sorry, I don't know.

B (35:41)

Tell me more.

C (35:42)

Well, at some point, in some future date, I presume that reality will be forced upon the markets. The market is a psychological exercise. And so for a confluence of reasons, one of which being naiveted, I do think that it's kind of outperforming what I think is rational. But I'm not an investment expert either. And we've seen this now over and over again. At this point, there's nothing, if you just look at all of the other indicators about our economic strength right now. It's not matching what we're seeing in, in the markets, you know, but there's some, you know, I've seen some other more erudite explanations for this about kind of like where money flocks to, you know, in times of instability and that. That might be explaining some of this. And so I, I don't know. I think, I think that there's a combination of things at play, but I definitely think there's some naivete. Okay.

B (36:54)

You guys excited to do regime change in Iran?

C (36:57)

Yes.

B (36:58)

Oh, good. Okay.

C (36:59)

Do you know neocon?

B (37:00)

Neocons plus one. Sarah, how about you? Are you still riding with us?

D (37:05)

Tim, are you genuinely excited about Rasheed change in Iran?

C (37:10)

I. Well, it depends. I mean, it was a cheeky question.

D (37:14)

I thought we were joking a little bit. I thought we were joking.

C (37:17)

I, I would, I'm excited for. I would. I hope the regime in Iran is deposed.

D (37:22)

Yeah.

C (37:23)

Images of the dead protesters, like Thousands upon, like 12,000, I guess, is the number right now.

B (37:28)

12,000 bodies right now?

C (37:29)

Yeah, bodies. It's fucking disgusting. Despicable. And I think that the Iranian regime is very weak. Obviously they have leaks from the inside based on what we saw from Israel's actions. Obviously there's interest in the Shah or whoever coming from the outside, from within the country. And I don't know. I mean, I think that it would be positive. I don't. I think that there are certain things that the US could do that would be helpful. It seems like. I don't know that. Like bombing, you know, or, you know, what exactly does that look like? I don't know, but I'll leave that. I got Mark Kirtling on the Daily Pod tomorrow. We'll talk about that with. He wrote for us today that bombing is the last step that we should take. But obviously there are some other things we could do. We could have nice things in this world. Right? The Iranian people could possibly have freedom. Is that not possible?

D (38:23)

Yeah. And because when you say regime changes, the question is like, are we. Are we going in? Exactly. Versus, well, could we help push?

B (38:32)

Right. It's a moment of instability, a moment of crisis for the Iranian regime. Could America.

D (38:37)

Can I just say, one of the things that is the most ironic about this is that one of Trump's stated reasons for us getting involved in Iran is the crackdown on the protesters.

C (38:51)

Yeah.

D (38:52)

Oh, oh. Does Trump respect protesters?

B (38:55)

Now, wait a minute. Hold on, hold on. Question. Should the Iranian police have to deal with disrespectful behavior from protesters in Iran? Isn't that asking a lot of them?

C (39:08)

Maybe Trump has a threshold. You can be generous. Maybe one dead lesbian is okay. But 12,000 police, you got to show them respect.

B (39:15)

Look, if the Iranian policeman gives you an order, aren't you. Don't you have to comply? Otherwise you'll be shot dead.

D (39:22)

Yeah, I mean, look, I think that. Very confusing if America being on the side of the protesters in Iran is. Makes sense. It is hard to separate. Like, I would not. I would not trust this administration to engage in large ways in any of these regimes. One of the things that's interesting, though, is that I do think MAGA will tolerate Venezuela slightly differently than it would tolerate us doing something in Iran. And the reason is just like, it's in the Middle east and like, because.

B (39:58)

It would make Israel happy.

C (40:00)

Right?

D (40:01)

Something we do that makes Israel more directly of the. Of the Iraq and Afghanistan Middle east wars. Endless wars. Starting the year with a wardrobe refresh. Quint has you covered with luxe essentials that feel effortless and look polished. They're perfect for layering, mixing and building a wardrobe that lasts. Their versatile styles make it easy to reach for them day after day. Quint has all the staples covered from soft Mongolian cashmere sweaters that feel like designer pieces without the markup to 100% silk tops and skirts for easy dressing up to perfectly cut denim for everyday wear. Their wardrobe essentials are crafted to last season after season. And you all know how much I love things that are low effort and can be low effort for a long time to come. The quality shows in every detail. The stitching, the fit, the fabrics. Every piece is thoughtfully designed to be your new wardrobe essential. And like everything from Quints, each piece is made with pretty premium materials in ethical trusted factories, then priced far below what other luxury brands charge. Here's the thing. You've heard me sing Quince's praises a hundred times and if you are really one of those people who thinks Sarah is always right, I am telling you, go get yourself one of their Italian wool coats or leather jackets. So you could say I'm wearing the Sarah Longwell. So we're.

C (41:21)

I guess if you wanted to do that.

D (41:25)

They do. So refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Don't wait. Go to quince.com the next level for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too, that is Q-U-I-N-C-E.com thenextlevel to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com thenextlevel how about Greenland?

B (41:49)

We're gonna invade Greenland. White House keeps going to a lot of trouble to say that it will not rule out the use of military force. It's a crazy thing. I have never seen a situation in which an administration tries to antagonize allies. To the way that we have on this. It's wild. What do we make of it?

C (42:13)

All right, our friend Susan Glasser on Today, you guys haven't heard it yet because it hasn't published at the time we're taping wise, judicious New Yorker, serious person thinker. And I said to her, I was like, last week on the Next Level podcast, I posited that I think there's like a 1 in 3 chance where you actually do this with Greenland. And I got some, you know, maybe a little some big eyes from my co panelists and she was like, I think it's more.

B (42:44)

Wow.

C (42:45)

She's like, I think, I think it's more I don't, I mean, I just, I think that, I don't think it's definite. But like Trump said, he has a psychological need for Greenland to the New York Times. Psychological need. That was his own words, to own it.

D (43:01)

Well, he is talking. So this is, I will say, the difference between invading and purchasing, which is what he is talking about now.

C (43:09)

He's just not floating.

D (43:11)

Nobody's floating. He's floating. Giving like thousands of dollars directly to green lenders in exchange for them. Yeah, right.

B (43:21)

Paying them to vote. Right, yeah. So, I mean, that is about the only way that he could do it, I think is just mass bribery. The problem with that is you can't sign it. You can't make them sign an enforceable contract. And so if you're a Greenlander, you could say, sure, I'll take a million dollars from you or $10 million from you, and then you just don't vote that way. Sucker. Right. You know, eat my shorts. What are you gonna, What's Trump gonna do about it? The other problem is I feel stupid even treating this like it's a real question. But purchasing Greenland is impossible because you can't price it. There is, there is no way to price what it would cost. And because the United States is attempting a hostile takeover, Denmark could not accept anything except for an all cash offer because they have no mechanism to enforce Donald Trump paying them. So for those two reasons, the reality that you can't put a price on what Greenland is actually worth and that America would have to pay cash or some cash equivalent because Denmark can't trust them to pay on a payment plan, you're not going to be able to do it. You can't do it.

C (44:38)

Are you ready for this one? While we're doing just five counterfactuals, here's what Susan dumped on me today. And I kind of sat here like this. I wonder what you guys are going to react. She said that there was a high ranking European source. They're like, if Trump actually put boots on the ground in Greenland and put an American flag down and you're Germany and your calculus is either like totally blow up the US EU relationship over Greenland or just kind of let them have it, what are you going to do? And they're like, I think that if you're Germany, you let them have it.

D (45:16)

I was also talking about this on my podcast with Asha Rangapa and like are just, we've never done anything like this before where we just are saying we're the biggest. We dare you to try and stop Us. Yeah, like, because, like, they're a NATO ally. Like, they are. We're going to blow up NATO and the. Can I just. I'm sorry, I'm going to. I don't, I don't mean to derail the conversation, but I want to talk about JBL's accelerationist theories because I've been thinking about this a lot because I don't like the idea of being an accelerationist. I don't like the idea of pushing us into places that are going to do a great deal of damage. But I was trying to think about what are, what are my lines? How do I separate the places where I think I kind of want to see. Like, I don't want the Supreme Court to rule against the tariffs because I want to people to experience Donald Trump's economy as they wished for it, as they voted for it. Part of the reason is, is that that can be undone, right? Like that if we go into a recession and people feel economic pain as a result of his choices, we, our economy can bounce back from that. We come back. Those are, those are cyclical, and it is not the end of things. The accelerationism into America is now a place that marches into other countries because we want, because it is not.

B (46:45)

We just need some Laban's realm. Sarah.

D (46:47)

Well, we just, we just want to. We just want to take all of their resources, right? Like it's. The Greenland and Venezuela are actually not different. There's just better pretexts for Venezuela, right? Like we will sit here and be like Maduro being gone. Net good. And so you can sort of. It's a little, it's a little more opaque. But like, Trump is being very clear, no, I want their oil. That's why I'm going to where big.

B (47:08)

He says he's the actor himself.

D (47:09)

He's the acting president of Venezuela. I read some insane line in my, I was like, in my notes, and it was like, Trump announced he's the acting president of Venezuela on Truth Social. And you're like, what words just came out of my mouth? What am I even talking about? But that kind of accelerationism where America moves in a direction where we have broken our relationship with Europe or we are, we are blowing up NATO. We are just taking the land of people who are purported allies. Like, you can't come back from those things. And so I am very much like. And this is where I say, hey, Lisa Murkowski, like, the through line of all of these things is that Congress is. Congress acting is the only remedy. Congress acting is the Only remedy across all of these things, they could say, right now we control the power of the purse. You can't have any more ice. You can't keep recruiting more ICE people if you're going to send them in America's cities and shoot.

B (48:09)

You got to go a level down, though, Sarah. The only remedy is Republican voters changing their mind because it isn't enough for Republicans in Congress to act. They then have to be supported in 11 months by Republican voters. Well, and if Republican voters want this, they want it.

D (48:33)

That's not, that's not true. Republican voters never wanted Greenland.

B (48:36)

I bet they hold it right now. They want it.

C (48:38)

No, no, no.

B (48:39)

80% of them, 80% of Republican voters right now are supporting Trump's immigration policy.

C (48:44)

Oh, you're talking about the immigration.

B (48:45)

Yeah, yeah. I'm just saying, like, broadly, like, they, they do want this stuff.

D (48:49)

No, ICE is very unpopular right now, but go ahead.

C (48:53)

No, I was just gonna say. And this is where it gets us into. Luckily, we've talked about this before. Our desires don't matter. So what we desire is meaningless because we have no power. And Donald Trump won and controls all of Washington. But just from an outcome standpoint, on this question of accelerationism, consequences do need to happen, right? I mean, again, let's just go back. And I hate to compare our friends in the Bush administration to what's happening here, but, like, their stupid decision, Sorry, jbl, we argued about this already once. To go into Iraq, like, led to real consequences eventually, right? Like, that got pushed out because there were real consequences for real people in the country who went and served in Iraq and got injured or had family members, et cetera. And, like, eventually, over time, that mattered and it's. And the posture of the Republican leaders changed. You know, like, obviously I could, if Iraq had been more successful, fewer consequences, we might have boots on the ground in Venezuela right now or Iran, who knows, right? Like, it's not like some ideological commitment that Trump has. Like, Trump just wants to be a bully who does stuff that's popular. So his strategies need consequences. Right? So I don't want to be here wanting, like, oh, I hope that something terrible happens in Venezuela, but, like, I kind of hope something terrible happens in Venezuela, like, because, you know, or at least at minimum, that none of this work. I, you know, it doesn't seem like it's going to work, but that, like, the long term of, oh, we won't get the oil out of the ground for 10 years, like, that's not enough to slow this down. And I just think that, like, this guy's posting that he's a leader of Venezuela, he's got his eyes on Greenland, and the domestic shit's out of control. You know, if there's nothing to stop, you know, there's like an inertia element to this. If there's nothing that stops him, like, I do think that he's going to keep doing shit like this. Cuba, I don't know what else is on the top.

B (50:49)

I just want him to do it. I want him to do it and stop talking about it. Right. This is why I feel like it's important to push. Like, you know, well, look, if. If Greenland is important to America's national security, we should invade tomorrow.

C (51:01)

Okay?

B (51:01)

But the problem with that, why allow it to be.

C (51:03)

But what if that, what I just laid out happens, which is that he does invade Greenland, puts America's flag down, and the EU is just like in the EU at tacos. Well, like. Well, whatever.

B (51:13)

Here's. I mean, I can tell you, I think what I believe is like, the accepted. I think it's likely, but it wouldn't be a taco. So if the way this works, the way decoupling works, is you decouple in secret and you sort of preserve the facade of the alliance remaining until the moment when you're ready to fully cut ties. And so what they would have to do is they'd have to again, further increase defense spending and stand up their own defense industries. This is again why Ukraine will be really important, because Ukraine is going to exit this war with a pretty mammoth defense industrial complex. And so the Germans and the Swiss got to start making, making weapons, making small machine parts and stuff like that. Again, French nuclear program has to kick into gear. And so all that stuff. If we invade Greenland, I think Europe sends a very strongly worded letter and begins preparing to fully break with America and decouple. And the reason they don't blow up the alliance is because there's no percentage for them. There's no advantage in, like, blowing up the alliance right there, right? You decide we're going to make all our future plans and you continue to take whatever benefits from the alliance you can while you have it. And also because, I don't know, like, if some Democrat gets elected president and gets sworn into office, there's got to be a 50, 50 chance that Greenland changes hands and goes back. Right?

D (52:43)

If a Democrat gets elected after we've done it, we would give Greenland back.

B (52:46)

Right? So this is why, if you're Germany, you don't, like, fight a war One.

D (52:49)

Of the ways we make peace with the rest of the world to say like, please forgive us here. We're going to give Greenland back and.

B (52:56)

The world won't forgive us. The world will take Greenland back like you know they would. Denmark would, would take Greenland back. But the world can't ever trust us again because we've shown that we can do this now twice.

C (53:09)

Do you know how many people are on Greenland?

B (53:11)

50,000.

C (53:12)

Yeah.

D (53:13)

Do you know though that it is bigger? This was, I didn't know this. It is bigger than France, Britain, Spain and like Germany all together.

C (53:22)

Land the size of Alaska.

D (53:23)

Land wise, it's very big.

C (53:25)

It's huge. Yeah. It's part of the reason why Trump wants it. He saw it on the map, it looks big, but I mean 50,000 people is like a, it's like Ball State University or something like it's like that. It's not even a big college.

D (53:41)

Yeah. He's like, he could give them each a hundred thousand dollar bribe and it would cost him $500,000.

C (53:49)

Not that much.

D (53:50)

Not a lot of money.

B (53:51)

Five million again. Five million quite work. Right. So like how does Congress appropriate that, that much money? You can't bind their actions.

C (54:03)

Right.

B (54:03)

You can give it to these people, but you can't ensure they're actually going to hold their word. It becomes hard.

C (54:09)

Okay. You know how sometimes you just stare into your fridge hoping something will magically cook itself? I do. Our next sponsor might be the answer to your prayers. This podcast is sponsored by Tovala. Tovala is a smart meal delivery service, fresh meals and a smart oven that does the cooking for you. Tovala makes it so easy. You just scan the meal's QR code, pop it in the oven and it cooks everything perfectly. Steams, bakes, broils automatically. No guesswork needed. During Tovala's New Year's sale, you can get a free Tovala smart oven when you order meals six or more times by heading to tovala.com nextlevel using our code Next level. Tovala's meals are chef crafted and taste just like homemade meals you'd make for yourself, just without all the headache. Plus, all Tovala's meals are made with real fresh ingredients. And Tovala's smart oven isn't just for their meals. You can also use it to scan store bought groceries like Eggo waffles, cinnamon rolls, Amy's frozen meals and others. If you're trying to declutter your life this year, this is the perfect way to do it. Between parenting, podcasting and keeping up with the news, it's hard to find room for much else these days. And if you're like me, meal prep doesn't need to be another one of those things stacking up on your to do list. So for a limited time, because you're a next level listener, during Tavala's new year sale, you can get a free Tavala smart oven when you order meals six or more times by heading to tavala.com nextlevel using my code next level that's a free Toval smart oven. When you head to tovala.com nextlevel and use promo code next level one last time, that's T O V A L A dot com and make sure you use our promo code next level for a free Tavala smart oven. Remember, with Travala, dinner is taken care of.

B (55:43)

Representative Peltola, who beats Sarah Palin to become an ended Sarah Palin's political career again. God bless her for that. She's going to run for Senate challenging incumbent Dan Sullivan who's still in the.

C (55:57)

Senate, interestingly still in the Senate.

B (56:00)

And her, her campaign seems to be family, fish and freedom.

C (56:06)

Love that fish.

D (56:07)

Fish is first.

C (56:09)

Is it Fish first, fish, family, freedom.

B (56:12)

Yeah.

D (56:12)

Yeah.

B (56:12)

So not, not America first, not family first.

C (56:15)

Fish first.

D (56:16)

Yeah. Which in Alaska that plays but also.

C (56:19)

She said America first in her ad in her opening apps.

B (56:23)

How much do you love this, Sarah? Because this is like your fantasy politics.

D (56:29)

Yeah. I mean do we gotta hand it to Chuck Schumer a little bit? It's possible. She's a good get. She's a good get for Alaska. And I gotta say for the first time with Mary Paltola in Alaska, you now have a Senate map that is plausible that Democrats could win. And what I love about Mary Paltola is that she is all about her state. This is how Lisa Murzkowski has won in Alaska. Even with a last name like Murkowski, which because her dad was a politician there, people didn't know how to spell. But like when she was had to be a write in candidate, she could still win because people saw Lisa Murkowski and I focus grouped Alaska a ton. They're like they know which committees she sits on, they know how much power she has. Like and they see her as somebody who fights for that state and they see Mary Patola that way also. And I think that she's got a really good shot at this Senate seat.

C (57:32)

Yeah. And I think it relates to our Greenland thing. You know, I think running A campaign about how Donald Trump and Dan Sullivan care more about Greenland than Alaska is pretty compelling, regardless of whether you got to hand it to Chuck Schumer. I think this is, this is the first recruitment. It's the first Senate announcement where I'm like, oh, that's, that's helpful. That's actually helpful to the map. Not saying she's definitely going to win. I saw both today, I think had her either up 1 or down 1. Alaska pulling Alaska's hard. Alaska politics is very finicky. Dan Sullivan, who has been like a ghost, maybe he is spending a lot of time in Anchorage. And do I, you know, I don't have, I don't want to pretend like I have huge visibility on what Dan Sullivan has been doing on the local side and, and he's been a Trump toady, but he, he does, he's not like out there saying embarrassing all the time. Right. It's not like a Herschel Walker situation. So, you know, it's not, this is not like celebration time. But it's, it's a legit recruitment. It expands the map. We've been talking about this over and over again. For the Democrats to win the Senate, they got to go out there. And the states we've kept been saying is when, oh, two of Ohio, Iowa, Texas, Florida and like now you can add Alaska to that. And I think another one to secretly watch is Kansas. You know, Kansas did vote on that, that abortion ballot initiative on the pro choice side. Kansas has some weird politics too. They had a Democratic governor, Roger Marshall, who is up there, is also one of these, like, magas aren't excited about them. You know, suburban moms in the Kansas City burbs aren't excited about them. Right. So conceivably there. And that's what they got to do. You know, they got to expand the map and take more shots. And you need candidates who are a little bit heterodox. Mary Paltola has been that. And so that's good.

D (59:27)

But, but she also. Here's the thing about Mary Patolo that I love. And this is, this is the part where Tim and I talk a lot about, like, you need candidates that fit the places. The thing about Alaska is it's got this large native population that really matters. And it's also got all of these places that are, they call, I think they call it the Bush. It's like places that the broadband doesn't even reach. You know, like they're indigenous populations and just remote areas. She's a star in those places. Like she has genuine star power. And the other thing about Alaska, even though I make fun of ranked choice voting all the time, it does have ranked choice voting. And so the independence is one of the reasons that Mary Paltola won against Sarah Palin is that because of ranked choice voting and the number of independents in the state, it gives her a better shot. And, you know, the, the Republicans in Alaska often win. It's like 53%, 52%. You know, it's not like it's not Alabama we're talking about here. And so with a strong. If you, if you play well with the independence, there's just like. And, and you. And you have the ranked choice voting. I think there's, There's. It's a, It's a decent shot. Best news I'd gotten in a while.

B (60:34)

If the map flips, just indulge me. Could Lisa Murkowski caucus with Democrats then in order to get more for her state, give them another seat, increase the cushion?

D (60:47)

I don't know the answer to that. I. I have been saying no to you on the fantasy politics of all this for a long time.

B (60:53)

Just asking questions. I'm not saying it's tried.

D (60:56)

I, I try to talk about, like, the, the lunch table problems. Whatever I do. Murkowski has been not great. Like, I've been angrier at her than I have ever been of late. She is one of the people, though, that is making noise right now, both about the Fed and about Greenland and about ice. Like, she's. I don't know if you'd ever get her to flip, but she should. Let me just be really clear. She should.

C (61:26)

One piece of interesting fantasy politics for to play that game is that forget the cushion. Like, it's not totally crazy for the Dems to pick up the two seats that are in states that Democrats have won, which is North Carolina and Maine, though they're making some problems for themselves in Maine. And then pick up only Peltola. And so it's 50. 50. And Lisa Murkowski has a Democrat as her colleague.

D (61:59)

Who she likes, by the way, who she likes.

C (62:02)

That. That would be a fun fantasy politics scenario to see how. How old Lisa would handle that last thing.

B (62:09)

Senate in Texas, Matt Rogers and Bone Yang got in all sorts of trouble. Bone Yang, who's just left Saturday Night Live makes me very sad. I like him. He's funny.

C (62:19)

You do? That's interesting.

B (62:21)

Great. You don't like Bone Yang.

C (62:23)

I. I don't really have anything. I just. I wonder whose Bowen Yang is for. I've wondered that before. And it's interesting that as a straight man with the family, you like his material. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. I just don't know what his demos are. It's interesting that you'd be in there.

D (62:37)

I also find him funny.

B (62:39)

Yeah. Oh, he's great. He's in the way. He said on the show that Jasmine Crockett doesn't have a chance of winning the tennis, the Senate race in Texas. And so people should fact check.

D (62:50)

True.

B (62:51)

Shouldn't give money to her campaign. And I think that those remarks were not appreciated.

C (63:00)

The response these guys got is insane. It's truly crazy.

B (63:03)

Tell me more.

C (63:04)

I shared one example on Twitter of. Of someone. That's that I just saw this in my own TikTok feed. I'm just scrolling. I didn't just. I'm not nut hunting. Come across this video. It has 170,000 likes. And the video starts by talking about how these twinks with their gaping rosebuds should not be talking like this about a black woman. It did catch my ear because, yeah, generally speaking, if you're. If you're concerned that someone's been speaking in a bigoted or offensive manner about a group of marginalized people, you don't begin that by disparaging them in an extremely disgusting and bigoted way. Um, but, you know, anyway, that my objection to that apparently didn't resonate with everybody else since it had 170,000 likes on TikTok. Um, it wasn't. That's just one example. This is not nut picking. I don't really know him. I messaged Matt just because Bowen and Matt end up not apologizing, but just kind of putting out one of those statements. It's like we've heard the feedback from our listeners and we take it seriously. One of those kind of.

D (64:13)

I thought they did walk it back a little bit.

C (64:15)

They did, but that was the statement. It was like, we've heard the feedback. You know, we're taking it seriously. I don'. I don't have to say that in front of me. But it didn't. It just notably didn't say. I'm sorry is all. Is all I'm saying. But, like, it was definitely a walk back for sure. And I just messaged him on Instagram. I was just like, don't get bullied over this. And, And. And his response to me was just. Just. Well, I guess I shouldn't share the private conversation, but just the gist of it is like, you wouldn't believe how overwhelming like. Like he was in It. They were inundated. They're inundated with people just really maligning them. I've seen people on social media calling others who defended them, like KKK and things of this nature. Like, people like, the left is never going to win an election again if they behave like this, you know, and. And. And reduce everybody to their identity and make extremely disgusting and disparaging remarks about each other based on identity. And it's like, I'll wait and see how Jasmine Crockett's campaign is going. We've talked about Jasmine Crockett's campaign before. I have some questions about it. There are things that she's good at, but, like, they're, you know, it's like, it's to be like, Bowen, Yang and Matt Rogers are against black women. Like, they were huge cheerleaders of Kamala Harris's campaign. And. And there are great candidates of all races and genders, and they're bad candidates of all races and genders. I'm like, reducing somebody to that and doing this nasty online. These nasty online attacks on people within the left is. I mean, it's like nobody actually takes the threat of the opposition seriously if they're going to do this, if this is going to be the dialogue. And it's. I just think it's truly insane and that it is important. I wanted it to be on the rundown today because it's important for people to speak out, to try to encourage people to stop it and to change their behavior, because we're going to get into a 28 campaign where people are going to do this. And it's like, the Democrats have dug their own grave too many times by being like, oh, I've got to be. I can't criticize this person or this thing or this bad actor, because these people are going to do. Are going to weaponize bad faith attacks against me and call me a white supremacist or something. Or something. So I can't. We've, you know, I can't criticize Joe Biden because people are going to say, oh, you know, you're ageist, or whatever. I can't criticize Kamala. Like, this is all. It's all insane. Insane. Like, people, like people put themselves in the public eye are allowed to be criticized on the merits. If people say racist things, you should call them out as that. But that's not what happened here. Matt and Bowen are allowed to have an opinion about who is viable and not without, like, being called white supremacists.

D (66:48)

Also, can I just say that as a matter of strategic judgment, they're correct. Like, their point was, there are these progressive candidates that. That run in places where they very likely can't win, who raise truckloads of dollars from sort of not so smart activist types who are like, I love this person because they are, you know, a flamethrower. And they're taking on Trump. And you're like, okay, but Mary Peltola can win that Senate seat in Alaska, and Jasmine Crockett can't win that Senate seat in Texas. And so there are a finite number of resources. And when the left. And look, there are people that I like very much. Amy McGrath is a really good example. I like Amy McGrath. Okay, but Amy McGrath wasn't going to win against Mitch McConnell. She just wasn't. And, like, the amount of money she.

B (67:46)

Raised for the guy, was it like $50 million?

D (67:48)

I mean, it was just. Yeah, it was incredible. Incredible. And, you know, the same thing happened. There was a guy named Marcus Flowers. I remember he ran against Marjorie Taylor Greene. Just buckets and buckets of money in a race that was totally not viable. And I think that it is actually part of what bothered me about the Bow and Yang thing is having people like them, celebrities taking, like, the, like, finally getting their handle on, like, the right strategic side of what makes sense to invest in. If you're like, lots of people are listening to them, and for them to get yanked over something that is just, like, good political allocation of resources was absurd. And it, It. It shows you that, that. That part of the Democratic coalition that is less interested in winning and more interested in being able to, like, yell at and then change the behavior of the people in their sphere. Yeah, like that. That way lies ruin for Democrats.

C (68:48)

Oh, they're interested in winning. They're winning the social media fight.

A (68:51)

Yeah.

D (68:52)

Okay. Congrats on all your social media points. It gets you nothing in checking Trump.

B (68:56)

This is how Barry Weiss was born. Right? I mean, sure, ICE agents are murdering people in Minneapolis, but over on TikTok and Instagram, people are overreacting to this statement. And so I've never felt more politically homeless.

C (69:10)

But by the way, you know, if. Also there are healthy ways to do this. If you're one of these people that are watching this and you're like, sarah's analysis is dead wrong. Jasmine Crockett does have a chance to win. I love Jasmine Crockett. We should try that. Then go donate to Jasmine Crockett. And it's fine for somebody to do a TikTok that's like, you Know what? Here's a sizzle reel of. Yeah, here's a sizzle reel of Jasmine Crockett. Like, I watched this podcast, and these guys said, don't donate to him. But here's why I think you should, because she's really great on this, that or the other.

B (69:37)

Make the case.

C (69:38)

That's fine. Go do that. Yeah, make the case. Make the case. Smearing these people and like, these per. Like personal attacks. Intra. You know, with Intra Coalition is just. And bullying them and being nasty and being fucking homophobic about it. Like, it's just. Don't stop, okay? And focus. If you're going to. If you're going to insult somebody, insult little Greg Bevino, okay? And Stephen Miller and people that actually fucking deserve it.

B (70:04)

If Representative Crockett can win, then she's going to win. And this isn't going to be what stops her from winning, Right? It won't be a lack of resources. I promise you, it won't be a lack of resources if. If she doesn't win.

D (70:17)

That might be true, but also, there's a primary right now, right? And like, I'm not saying James Talrico actually has the best chance either, but he's got a better chance than she does, because you have to win Trump voters in a state like Texas. And guess what? She called the governor Hot Wheels. And she has made hating Trump like, at the center of her thing. Which, by the way, that is good. That is.

C (70:41)

And I'm not running for Senate in Louisiana, but by the way, you tell me, like, I'm. I do that, too. And people said, you should run Louisiana. I can't win in Louisiana because I live in fucking Louisiana. And because I've been so nasty to MAGA Republicans and because there are a lot of MAGA Republicans here. That's just life, baby.

B (70:59)

For reals. All right, before we get out of here, Tim, you had something you wanted to talk about?

C (71:05)

Yeah, I just. While we're talking about these attacks on marginalized groups, you know, and. And. And being sensitive to that, I do think it's important to talk about one group that people haven't really focused on a lot and the challenges they have, and that's wasps. And Tucker Carlson was on a podcast with his brother Buckley. Tucker and Buckley. And Buckley brought up our colleague Bill Kristol, and how he thinks Bill Kristol is stupid. And Tucker corrected him and was like, Buckley. No, Bill Kristol went to a great prep school and a great college. He's done a lot of reading, and he's not stupid. But he does have a problem. And that's something that I remember from when I worked with him, and that's that he just doesn't like WASPs. And the. Bill Crispel brought it up a lot to me that I was a wasp. And I remember him thinking about how I was a WASP a lot. And Tucker was like, no, I didn't think very much about how he's Jewish. I don't ever think about how people are Jewish. I bring up the Jews all the time, but I don't ever. I wasn't thinking about that. But I did notice that he often thinks about how I'm a wasp. And I just thought. I just wanted to say, heard, you know, wasps are people too. Okay. And if people at the Weekly Standard, you know, Fred Barnes and who else? What other WASPs did you have up there?

D (72:21)

William F. Buckley?

C (72:22)

No, he was at the National Standard also.

B (72:25)

He was Catholic.

C (72:26)

Who. Yeah, what other wasp. What other wasps do you have over there? Jbl. If they felt Catholics are not Protestants.

B (72:33)

We're barely even Christians. Sorry.

C (72:36)

Any.

B (72:36)

That's a little. That's a little inside Catholic humor for you folks.

C (72:39)

Anyway, Tucker was mad. Bill is anti wasp. I haven't seen any of that in our office.

B (72:44)

If only we had a firsthand witness who was around all that time and could speak to this.

C (72:48)

Do you remember any WASP? Do you remember any anti WASPs?

B (72:51)

Now who could say? Who could say?

C (72:53)

Are there slurs? Are there anti WASP slurs like buzz heads?

D (72:58)

No. You know what this is? We all know Bill. Bill walks around my office over here in his. In his bombas because he's taking his shoes off and he's walking around and he gets behind the kids computers and he's like, hey, see, you're not working.

B (73:17)

Working hard here. Yeah, good. Time for another lunch break. Nothing getting undone here at the Bulwark.

D (73:24)

You know what he was doing? Making fun of Tucker's bow tie like he was making fun of his goofy clothes. I mean, I know Tucker's had a big makeover now where he only wears flannel shirts and like, has a zin in his mouth. But for most of the time we knew him, he had a bow tie and like floppy hair and. And that's just what Bill does. Tucker did defend Bill's intelligence and. But it was this like, his like, thing where Bill was anti wasp. Oh, no, he. But he did say Bill's intelligence was like a party trick. Like, it wasn't like, real deep. As somebody who spent a lot of time with Bill, it is. I think. Not a party trick. You got to listen to him talk about the opera and about Thucydides and, you know, history of the Peloponnesian War, Russo, Rousseau. He's read all of Mark's.

C (74:16)

Well, I just wanted to say, clearly I have an eye out for this at the Bulwark Wall. Wasps are welcome.

B (74:21)

Yeah, all wasps are welcome here. Bill's low key was something of a young math prodigy, too. So, like, it's not. It's not just that he's better read than almost anybody else I know. Like, he. He does math, too.

A (74:34)

Nuts.

B (74:36)

He would.

D (74:36)

He would have known what happens if you give 50,000 people in Greenland $100,000. He would know what that answer is.

B (74:44)

I just skipped right over it. All right, guys. Well, not bad. We got through another one. Another week down. Good show. Long show, guys. We'll see you next week. Good luck, America.