1049: LIVE REACTION: Sundowning Trump Stumbles Through Press Event

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Next Level

Episode 1049 (Jan 20, 2026):

LIVE REACTION: Sundowning Trump Stumbles Through Press Event
With Sarah Longwell, Tim Miller, and Jonathan V. Last (JVL)

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Overview & Main Theme

This live episode captures The Next Level team’s real-time reactions to President Donald Trump’s extended (and meandering) press conference, marking his first year back in office. The hosts break down Trump’s performance, communication tactics, and policy pronouncements—especially his attempts to reset the political narrative amid plummeting poll numbers and global diplomatic tension (notably over the unprecedented US push to assert control over Greenland). Interwoven are discussions of global realignment, US domestic politics, and the sense of instability radiating from an administration increasingly disconnected from facts and political norms.

The overall tone is incredulous, darkly humorous, and at times alarmed—reflecting the hosts’ mix of political expertise, gallows humor, and genuine concern about the direction of the US presidency and its impact on the world order.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Communication Strategy in Crisis

• Attempt to Control the Narrative:
  Trump’s long, rambling list of “achievements” is seen as a defensive reaction to poor poll numbers and negative press.
  • Sarah: “Somebody showed Trump his poll numbers and how bad they're declining… So he decided, here's what I'm going to do: I'm going to get up…the podium, I'm just going to tell everybody how great I'm doing to turn things around.” [02:02]
• Essential Trump Style:
  • “No matter how bananas I sound right now, no matter how crazy it is, I’m going to force everybody to talk about what I want them to talk about…this is how I point the laser and get everyone to chase it.” (Sarah, [09:21])

2. Trump’s Press Event: Memorable Moments & Themes

• List of “Achievements” and Grievances:
  • “He’s just reading them one by one and weaving in between.” (Sarah, [02:02])
  • Notable claims included: banning public sector remote work, ending “woke” leadership in the military, and promoting low gas prices, among others.
• Transphobic and Culture War Talking Points:
  • “Ban the use of puberty blockers, hormone injections and other chemical and surgical mutilation of children...” (Trump, [04:38])
  • “It’s a total Grandpa Simpson thing where he’s just…saying random talking points…bouncing around his little brain.” (Tim, [05:24])
• Obsession with Public Perception:
  • “I guess I have bad PR because we get no credit.” (JVL, [08:58])
• Odd Details & Anecdotes:
  • Claims of firing millions of federal employees who supposedly landed better factory jobs (JVL mockingly notes at [52:45])
  • Extended digression about being injured by a paperclip and not showing pain (“He went on a long rift about how if it had hurt his finger…he would have never shown the pain because he’s not weak.” Sarah, [54:41])

3. Policy Pronouncements & World Order

• Greenland Controversy:
  Trump’s pursuit of Greenland is ridiculed by the hosts—seen as unprecedented, destabilizing, and a flashpoint for US-European relations:
  • “I just don’t see any way in which this isn’t the end of the American-led world order that began in 1945...” (JVL, [59:54])
  • Discussion of new tariffs on European nations opposing the US claim to Greenland, and EU/Canadian realignment toward China and away from the US ([65:25]–[67:49])
• Board of Peace Concept:
  Trump’s proposal for a “Board of Peace”—a lifetime appointment for those who donate $1 billion, as an alternative to the UN/NATO, inviting autocrats like Orban and Putin:
  • “It is a new global system on which he will sit on the top... It’s like the evil US Legion of Doom, the evil NATO.” (Sarah, [82:13])
  • “As chairman, Trump can appoint and remove member states…sole veto power over its decisions…” (Sarah, quoting the charter, [83:24])
• Global Realignment:
  • Hosts highlight a serious, “deadly” realignment of allies and global order, as world leaders start to decouple from the US (Sarah, [46:53]; Tim, [61:47])
  • Canadian military reportedly war-gaming response to possible US invasion ([46:54])
• Host Deep Dives:
  • JVL’s maximalist argument: “There is no foreseeable future in which Greenland is not a disputed territory between Europe and the United States…” ([69:34])
  • Sarah and Tim counter that while damage is immense, some possibility of a “muddle through” solution remains.

4. Foreign and Domestic Press Interactions

• Press Pool Anomalies:
  Most questions at the press conference were from foreign or friendly right-wing outlets, with few real challenges. (Sarah, [54:41])
• Journalist Questions:
  Notably surreal moments:
  • “Do you think God would be proud of you?” (sarcastic reference—Sarah/Tim, [59:01, 59:05])
• Economic Claims:
  • Bold but likely inaccurate assertions about “$18 trillion” investment and reductions in drug prices “by 600%.” (Sarah, [54:41])
  • Proposed “$2,000 tariff dividend checks” to US citizens—executive branch to act “without Congress.” (Trump, [18:17]; hosts’ incredulity at [27:06])

5. Immigration, Enforcement, and ICE

• Inconsistent Messaging:
  Trump equivocated on illegal immigration: suggesting “we have to have a heart,” but also touting deportations.
  • “The thing that he did was try to have it both ways…trying to say, ‘no, no, no, those people we want here’ while saying ‘look at all these nasty criminals, we’re getting them out.’” (Sarah, [48:28])
  • “Trump doesn’t have the stomach for it…he’s a little queasy on this front…he wants to seem like he’s strong and he wants credit for going after the bad guys, but…when it makes him look bad, he doesn’t want to see it…” (Tim, [49:03])
• Projection and Retaliation:
  Attempts to prosecute Democratic officials—seen as vindictive and “projection” for Trump’s own legal troubles. (Sarah, [97:17])

6. Democratic Factionalism and Strategy

• Kamala vs. Shapiro:
  Some debate about the intra-party sniping between Democratic hopefuls, whether it’s necessary or counterproductive ([87:38]–[93:11])
• Advice for Democrats:
  • “They need to get out there with strong messaging, kind of with one voice, stop fighting with each other and start really fighting with Republicans.” (Sarah, [100:19])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• JVL, on Trump’s listing of achievements:
  “We just sat through a extended press conference from the President of the United States in which he listed the 365 amazing things he did. Yuval Levin, hardest hit.” [39:34]
• Sarah Longwell, on global realignment:
  “We are in the middle right now on this day of the total reshuffling of the world order…we are watching the sphere of influence of the United States be drowned out by our insanity.” [46:53]
• Tim Miller, on US foreign policy vs. world reaction:
  “These two leaders [Carney and Macron] are having these very serious, momentous conversations about how the US basically needs to be left behind because we’re a menace on the world stage. Meanwhile, Trump this afternoon…just dissembling, rambling.” [43:37]
• Sarah Longwell, on the Board of Peace:
  “Trump is going to run this global order like that is the plan. [As] chairman, Trump can appoint and remove member states. He has sole veto power…It ensures Trump or a handpicked successor would remain in the position indefinitely.” [83:24]
• Tim Miller, on the unhinged nature of the press conference:
  “My top three [moments]: the Mike Lindell TV person asking about Venezuelan machines…Trump said he’s going to leave that to his lawyers; when he almost injured himself on the paper clip and then threw the papers down angrily; and when he was asked about America first and then he talked about all the foreigners whose lives he saved…” [53:29]
• JVL, on government stability:
  “What is being fundamentally altered for a very long time…is people cannot trust the United States the way that they used to. And, we are going to start being treated almost unfathomably as a potentially hostile power in the globe.” [73:09]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:00 – Show goes live, banter about press conference marathons
• 02:00 – 05:26 – Discussion of Trump’s rambling press conference; Sarah explains Trump’s “laundry list” tactic
• 05:24 – Tim: “Grandpa Simpson thing…random talking points bouncing around his little brain”
• 09:21 – Sarah: “Essential Trump communication style…he’s going to force everybody to talk about what I want them to talk about”
• 13:12 – 18:17 – Trump on trade, tariffs, and “$2,000 dividend” from tariffs
• 27:30 – 37:28 – Humor over Trump’s economic claims, Board of Peace, press questions
• 46:54 – Canadian military war-gaming response to US; seriousness of world realignment
• 59:54 – JVL: “I just don’t see any way in which this isn’t the end of the American-led world order that began in 1945”
• 61:47 – Tim: Reasons world is moving away from US, possibility of “muddle through”
• 69:34 – JVL’s maximalist view on “Greenland as permanent disputed territory”
• 76:16 – Is the American approach to Greenland like Russia’s approach to Ukraine?
• 82:13 – 84:11 – Introduction and breakdown of Trump’s ‘Board of Peace’ and its charter
• 87:38 – 93:11 – Discussion of Democratic Party factionalism (Kamala vs. Shapiro, and party unity)
• 97:17 – 100:19 – On Trump’s pursuit of prosecutions as vengeance and advice to Dems on messaging
• 103:43 – Polling on Greenland: only 8% support military action; hosts doubt such issues will sway MAGA voters

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Final Thoughts & Tone

• The hosts oscillate between dark laughter, alarm, and sober analysis as they process the consequences of Trump’s performative, erratic leadership.
• Consensus: US credibility and stability are undergoing seismic shocks, with far-reaching consequences for alliances and domestic politics.
• Their advice to Democrats is to unite, clarify their message, and “fight with one voice”—while recognizing that some damage to trust in American leadership may be generational.
• The episode closes with lighter moments—sports banter and Sarah discovering a love for football—but the underlying message is clear: “We are never doing that again.” (JVL, [106:49])

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For those who missed the episode, you’ll find detailed reactions to pivotal moments, the hosts’ signature irreverence, and a comprehensive chronicle of Trump’s increasingly erratic tenure—an episode blending sharp political analysis and the exhausted exasperation of veteran observers watching history lurch off its rails.

Transcript

[Sarah Longwell]

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[JVL]

We live. There we go.

[Donald Trump]

But it's more live.

[JVL]

Hello, America, this is JVL here with my two best friends. We're in hour 97 of Donald Trump's press conference and I'm glad you've come to join. As my soul leaves my body. Good fight.

[Donald Trump]

It's just.

[JVL]

I've enjoyed it.

[Donald Trump]

You'll be so sad.

[JVL]

Guys, let's listen to what the President.

[Tim Miller]

Of these United States before we listen, just for people's benefit. We were supposed to be doing a podcast for you. We have a podcast called the Next Level that we tape at this time you guys might have watched before. And we decided we're going to wait to tape the next level to see what happens. Figuring that given the fact that we're having a diplomatic crisis in Europe and many of our allies are talking about decoupling from us, maybe the President might address that, you know, the fact he's trying to invade a NATO ally instead. What? Well, how long are we in JBL? 97 hours. So we've got a 97 hour list of the list of grievances and random.

[Sarah Longwell]

It's not a list of grievances. I mean, that's in there slash achievements. Hold on, here's what he's doing. I just want to set up what he is doing. Trump has taken the podium. He's been going for well over an hour and he is trying to go through a slurring, destroying automobiles, assembling and the Laundry list of his so called achievements. And he's just reading them one by one and then like sort of going off and weaving in between. But he is doing this. And I just, this is the only real thing to take away from what's happening right now. Somebody showed Trump his poll numbers and how bad they're declining. And Trump decided, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to get up the podium, I'm just going to tell everybody how great I'm doing to turn things around. It's just that they don't understand. He keeps saying they don't understand how good everything we're doing. Spice is good. Hispanics are good. Men are looking good to their wives because of their 401ks. The economy is good. These are paid agitators, the Hell's Angels like me. That is what's happening right now. The Green New scam.

[JVL]

Let's, let's listen to the president for just, just 45 seconds, randomly see what he says.

[Donald Trump]

I think I got 100% of their vote. We banned transgenders from the military. We don't want transgender in the military. Ordered reinstatement of patriots expelled from our military with full back pay. We had some people that were terminated and they're coming back into our military. Fired the woke boards of visitors at our military service academies. The boards of visitors were run by radical left, maybe communists, maybe not, but they were still heavily true.

[JVL]

Annapolis and West Point, famously highs of communist.

[Donald Trump]

Signed an executive order to remove anti American propaganda from federal museums and national parks. Required the federal employees.

[Sarah Longwell]

Free speech. Free speech. Free speech.

[Donald Trump]

We don't want them sitting in their home on their bed working. We want them in an office that we're paying for in Washington D.C. or wherever it may be. And we've largely taken care of that mess. That was crazy. I guarantee you they're out on the ball fields. I guarantee you they're out playing golf. And you can't run a country or a company that way. I think it's happening even so with countries and companies, but we had so many of our federal workers they wouldn't come into work. Signed an order banning all government censorship and restoring free speech. Made it the official policy of the United States government.

[JVL]

He just, he just, just fired the board.

[Donald Trump]

This was not a tough one. Two genders. Can anybody guess what they are? Male and female. I think the Democrats know that too, but they refuse to admit it. Ban the use of puberty blockers, hormone injections and other chemical and surgical mutilation of children. Can you imagine saying this 15 years ago that we banned the use of puberty blockers, hormone injections and other chemical and surgical mutilation of our children? You know, when I say it, I say is, do I have to say that? I actually asked my people today.

[Tim Miller]

I'll tell you, this might be the only thing I say positively about Trump.

[Donald Trump]

And men today from playing in women's sports.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, okay. It's like it's a total Grandpa Simpson thing where he just is like, you know, saying like random talking points that are in his head and like telling whatever stories or like bouncing around his little brain. But he has managed to stand up here 80 minutes. I mean, so Grandpa Simpson would have been sitting down in his rocking chair telling this story. And so, I mean, I don't know what's happening with the blood flow to his feet, but he is able to stand there for longer than you would think. So I guess we'll give it to him there.

[Donald Trump]

Settlements with Brown University, Columbia University and many other colleges, including the University of Pennsylvania where I went to great old Wharton School of Finance to restore fairness and merit. We're working with Harvard right now. They've been very anti Semitic, terrible what they've done. And we'll see what happens. I hear we have a deal. But who the hell knows with them? They have a lawyer who wants to show how hot he is. Ended taxpayer funded student loan forgiveness for radical left and anti American activists. Can you believe it? Began the process of abolishing the federal Department of Education and returning education back to the states. And Linda McMahon is doing a fantastic interesting.

[Tim Miller]

Joe Biden's weaponization to make decisions for themselves in education.

[Donald Trump]

Picked radical left.

[Tim Miller]

Most not an immigration policy.

[Sarah Longwell]

Right.

[JVL]

They only get to make their own decisions on education as long as it works with the federal government's preferences under Trump.

[Donald Trump]

How did that happen? He's a sick guy. And Leticia James is sick and Alvin Bragg is sick. Yeah, sick people.

[Sarah Longwell]

We know this part.

[Donald Trump]

Fanny Fonny. You can't go Fanny. She doesn't like it. She wants to be called Fawney maybe.

[Sarah Longwell]

Because that's her name.

[Donald Trump]

I want. Can you imagine putting somebody through that? And then if I suggest that somebody may be guilty of a terrible. Weaponizing government. Trump is weaponizing government. It's terrible.

[JVL]

Hey, he woke up.

[Donald Trump]

Can you imagine? They say to me about weaponizing. I don't weaponize anything. But what they did to me. Nobody ever went through what I went through. And here I am in a place called the White House. It's a Beautiful place. Who would have thought, right? Signed legislation to cut all taxpayer funding to woke and biased NPR and pbs. And they're sort of gone now, I guess. I heard they closed up. They were terrible. They were so.

[Sarah Longwell]

The Corporation for Public Broadcasting has disabled Columbus Day.

[Donald Trump]

I like the name Columbus Day. The Italian people are very happy about it. Remember when you go to the voting booths, I reinstated Columbus Day. That was an easy one. Christopher Columbus cut Social Security wait times by 50%. Serve 65% more JVL. That's a nice Social Security recipients.

[JVL]

That's right. I'm in a different location. Different location, different house. Not my house.

[Tim Miller]

For this.

[JVL]

I, I will. I, I just want to underline what you said at the beginning of this, Sarah. He did say at one point, about 40 minutes before we got on the air here, I guess I have bad PR because we get no credit. It's like this is, the whole thing is this defensive. Can't you guys believe how great everything is going?

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, right. This is, I mean, this is, this is sort of an essential Trump communication style, right? Is people are not talking about what I want them to be talking about. So no matter how bananas I sound right now, no matter how crazy it is, I'm going to force everybody to talk about what I want them to talk about by getting up and listing our accomplishments. Like, this is how I point the laser and get everyone to chase it.

[Tim Miller]

He did the. I love Hispanic. They're unbelievable. The Hispanic did the best people we have the Hispanic. So he did that. So, you know, he's nervous about his Hispanic polling numbers and so he just wanted to.

[JVL]

And immigration. I don't know if you picked up. There's a moment in this when he. Well, maybe we'll just save us for the, the actual show we do, but where he talked about how, you know, we have to chill a little heart and you know, where if somebody just came in here illegally, but they've been working and you know, and that that's not who we're trying to get rid of. That's, you know, and then like 45 seconds later he's like, but of course you gotta go.

[Tim Miller]

Because he also said he saw both sides of the Renee Good murder. He did because.

[JVL]

Because her dad was a big Trump supporter.

[Sarah Longwell]

Her dad's a big Trump supporter.

[Tim Miller]

Here's that her dad. Not sure if he still is, but.

[JVL]

He hopes he is. But that makes it a tragedy. And he said ICE sometimes makes mistakes. People are going to make mistakes. He didn't say that's what happened there but big news, Christine.

[Tim Miller]

Can you see both sides? I'm not sure it's the type of situation you can see both sides of. I mean, I'm a wishy washy centrist, so I like to see both sides of things. But it's kind of like, on the one side, you have somebody that says, I was trying to get away and an agent of the government murdered me. And on the other hand, you have a guy saying, this domestic terrorist tried to kill me, and I defended myself. It's not really like a situation where you're kind of like, they both have a good point, and you seem. You kind of need to fall on one side of it.

[JVL]

I disagree, I disagree. I mean, on the one hand, it's good that agents of Trump's government should be allowed to murder citizens. On the other hand, you know, it's not good that beloved family members of Trump supporters get murdered.

[Tim Miller]

So there.

[JVL]

It's very, very tough.

[Tim Miller]

Got it.

[JVL]

Very tough.

[Sarah Longwell]

He backs ice and I don't know if he kicked off the press conference with like 20 minutes of just holding up the wanted posters of bad hombres or, you know, people who were. Have committed crimes. And he keeps wanting to reiterate. Right. He made everybody sit there while he went page by page and held up each one and just showed while he was sort of rambling about them. But what he was trying to do was sort of reorient the conversation away from the things that ICE has done that have been awful in Greenland and try to re anchor it in. Here are the bad people we are getting out of our country like that.

[JVL]

Not Greenland. Yeah. He also conflating crises.

[Tim Miller]

He also threw out there that he knew that Good was a professional agitator because if you watch the video, you hear someone shouting shame in the background. And he said that when he launched the video, that person shouting shame had such a booming voice that they were like a professional opera singer.

[Sarah Longwell]

Like an opera singer. Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Their voice was so loud and operatic that that could only come from a paid agitator. I don't really. I don't understand how that works. Exactly. I don't. Is Soros, like, going to operas and trying to recruit especially loud people? No.

[Sarah Longwell]

I mean, this is just because one of the videos, she was the one holding the phone, See? And so when you're closer to the phone, your voice is louder.

[Tim Miller]

Okay.

[JVL]

All right, let's listen to. Let's listen to the president. What's he saying now?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, we're over an hour.

[Donald Trump]

That's just a small version we took a country he closed dead. And it's the hottest country in the world.

[Sarah Longwell]

We're hot.

[Donald Trump]

And that's after one year right now.

[JVL]

Let's go by cancel.

[Sarah Longwell]

Oh, now we're doing questions. Here we go. Let's go.

[Donald Trump]

Please.

[Sarah Longwell]

Thank you so much, Mr. President. I have two questions for you. One, do you want your Board of Peace to replace the un?

[Donald Trump]

Well, Mike, I mean, the UN just hasn't been very helpful. I'm a big fan of the UN potential, but it has never lived up to its potential. The UN should have settled every one of the wars that I settled. I never went to them. I never even thought to go to them. They should be able to settle those wars. They don't. I believe you got to let the UN continue because the potential is so great.

[Sarah Longwell]

And I wonder if you invite a Lula from Brazil to be part of the Board of Peace.

[Donald Trump]

I did.

[Sarah Longwell]

What role do you expect him to play? Especially a big role. I like Venezuela and another one because.

[Donald Trump]

Are you from Brazil?

[Sarah Longwell]

Yes. The EU and America just signed a trade agreement this weekend which is going to be the. The biggest trade zone, free zone in the world at the moment. You talk a lot about tariffs. What is your reaction to that? So, two questions.

[Donald Trump]

Well, I. Look, I just think this. I think we have trade like we've never had before. We're doing better on trade than we ever have before. We're not being ripped off by every country in the world like we were before. We're doing. We're doing numbers that nobody's ever thought possible. We're the richest we ever were. It's because of tariffs and the proper use of tariffs. And we're also the most secure. As an example, Iceland without tariffs, they wouldn't even be talking to us about it. So we'll see what.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, Iceland.

[Donald Trump]

That's going to work out quite well. Right behind.

[Tim Miller]

What is he referencing?

[Sarah Longwell]

Characterize your relationship with Emmanuel Macron and Keir Starmer right now. And have you spoken to them since your Truth Social?

[Donald Trump]

No, I haven't. But I think I get along very well with them. I mean, they, they always treat me well. They get a little bit rough when they're, you know, when I'm not around. But when I'm around, they treat me very nicely. And, you know, I like both of them. They're both liberal. They've got to straighten out their countries. You can't. You know, London is having a lot of problems, and if you look at Paris, got a lot of problems. They have two problems, immigration and Energy. They got to stop with the windmills and they got to go back. Like, UK has an unbelievable asset called the North Sea. Norway uses it, makes a fortune. They have a better section of it, and they don't do it. They could straighten out their countries and it would be good. But I get along very well with it.

[Sarah Longwell]

You told Norway's prime minister.

[Donald Trump]

Are you from Norway?

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah.

[Donald Trump]

You look like you would be. She looks like she's from Norway.

[Tim Miller]

Go ahead.

[Sarah Longwell]

You told Norway's prime minister that you not winning the Nobel Peace Prize made you feel less obligated to think purely of peace.

[Donald Trump]

Well, I lost a lot of respect for Norway. And I believe, and I believe very strongly that Norway controls the Nobel Prize. But you have to understand.

[Sarah Longwell]

No, they don't.

[Donald Trump]

Eight wars. I've had every one of those wars. Every participant wrote. I didn't ask them to do it. They sent in strong recommend. You know, they make recommendations.

[JVL]

They left great reviews on Yelp. All eight of them did, I don't know, five stars.

[Donald Trump]

I did eight.

[JVL]

Does the Nobel committee know that? His stars are five for me to do?

[Donald Trump]

And I didn't do it for a Nobel Prize. I did it because I'm saving a lot of lives. I'm trying to settle the final one. I'm trying to do Russia, Ukraine, and when Russia's ready, Ukraine's done. When Ukraine's ready, Russia's done. Russia's been ready, losing 25,000 people a month on average. And I'm trying to get that one done. But, no, I feel. But I feel that Norway has tremendous control over who gets the Nobel Prize, despite what they say.

[Tim Miller]

How far are you willing to go to acquire Greenland?

[Donald Trump]

You'll find out. Kevin Hassett has said that those $2,000 tariff rebate checks would be up to Congress to decide whether or not to disperse that. Do you agree with Kevin Hassett on that, or do you think you can do that unilaterally? I don't. I don't think we would have to go the Congress out, but, you know, we'll find out. The reason we're even talking about it is that we have so much money coming in from tariffs that we'll be able to issue at least a $2,000 dividend and also pay down debt for the country. But we'd do a $2,000 dividend to the people of our country would probably set a limit of, you know, income limit where it made sense, but we will be able to make a very substantial dividend to the people of our country. I believe we can do that without Congress.

[Tim Miller]

I wish I could smoke inside.

[Donald Trump]

Last night on True Social, I also.

[Tim Miller]

Almost went and had a cigarette and.

[Donald Trump]

Then rent it back was an act of great stupidity. Previously you backed that deal. Now your position the deal should not go ahead.

[Tim Miller]

Too late.

[Donald Trump]

They, you know, when they originally were going to do it, they were talking about doing some concept of ownership, but now they're looking to essentially just do a lease and sell it. And I'm against that. You know, it's a reasonably nothing like Greenland, but it's a reasonably important area of the globe. Not to anywhere near Greenland. But I think they should keep it. I don't know why they're doing. Do they need money?

[Tim Miller]

Thank you. $2 Garage. I also am ashamed to have ever been Republican government. You avoided another civil war and a bloodshed in Syria, especially after the fall.

[Donald Trump]

I did a good job.

[Sarah Longwell]

Not for nothing, but are any of the reporters in the room Americans?

[Tim Miller]

So I was like, where's ice? Ice might need to look inside the White House specific areas and to keep.

[Donald Trump]

The prisoners, the terrorist prisoners, which is some of the worst in the world at bay. So they, they were able to keep that. He's working very hard. The president of Syria is working very, very hard. Strong guy, tough guy, pretty rough resume, but you're not going to put a choir boy in there and, you know, get the job done. I spoke with him yesterday.

[Sarah Longwell]

Criminals should lead every country. They're strong.

[Donald Trump]

You have some of the worst terrorists in the world in those prisons. And he's watching.

[Sarah Longwell]

Is going to be at Davos if he's not already there. You're probably going to run into him. I presume that this is for him to raise his platform for 2028. But what do you anticipate his foreign policy platform is going to be?

[Tim Miller]

I don't know.

[Donald Trump]

I mean, I don't know that he's going to be the nominee. I know this. I had a very good relationship with Gavin Newsom when we were, you know, in office together. I was president. He was the governor of California. Really.

[Sarah Longwell]

He would talk about just really quickly and it was 365 wins. Hate. That's the theme of this. He handed it out. This is supposed to be three. So every day that he's been in office, he's got a win for. That's what we just listened to. His 365 wins.

[Donald Trump]

Close to the word exceptional, but now we seem not to.

[Sarah Longwell]

It included things like stripped notorious crackhead and grifter Hunter Biden of his taxpayer funded Secret Service detail Huge win. Big one from Lindell TV.

[Tim Miller]

And you spoke earlier about Lindell TV, the Real Journal.

[Sarah Longwell]

Now that Maduro. Maduro is in U.S. custody and he was criminally charged, has any more information emerged that you could share with us regarding Venezuelan election software and Venezuelan ties together with the election? And would you consider speaking to Maduro personally in prison in New York to get some answers on Venezuela's involvement in the 2020 election?

[Donald Trump]

No, I don't think I would be doing that. I think my lawyers would be very unhappy if I did. Yeah, they've learned.

[Tim Miller]

They've learned the killer man sent his reporter there to ask if he's got more evidence that Venezuela interfered in the machines in the 2020 election. That's what just happened there.

[Donald Trump]

You know, take a look at the word license. Take a look at other things. I mean, we have other alternatives, but the. What we're doing now is the best. The strongest, the fastest, the easiest, the least complicated.

[JVL]

If you move ahead with the Greenland.

[Tim Miller]

Related tariffs on Europe, you secured almost a trillion dollars of commitments from them to invest in the United States. Does that go out the window if that happens?

[Donald Trump]

I doubt it. Look, they want to. They need that agreement very badly with us. They really do. They fought very hard to get it, so I doubt that. But we'll see what happens. We have a lot of meetings scheduled on Greenland. I'm leaving tonight, as you know, Davos. And we have a lot of meetings scheduled on Greenland. And I think things are going to work out pretty well, actually.

[Sarah Longwell]

Thank you, Mr. President. Could you still go to Paris for the G7 emergency meeting as offered by President Macron?

[Donald Trump]

No, I wouldn't do that. Because, you know, Emmanuel. Emmanuel is not going to be there very long and you know, there's no longevity there. He's a friend of mine. He's a nice guy. I like Macron, but. But he's not. He's not going to be there very much longer, as you know. And I think you know, I have meetings with the people that are directly involved.

[Tim Miller]

Now commenter who appears to be a priest, but he wants to have a smoke with me. That's. That's where we're at.

[Donald Trump]

I've never seen this room like this. Is this a celebration of the first year?

[Tim Miller]

Yes.

[JVL]

Have you ever seen it?

[Donald Trump]

I've never seen.

[Sarah Longwell]

Those are reporters. Sure. Shouting Yes.

[Donald Trump]

I hope we have a very good structural floor. You know, this used be a swimming pool. You're sitting over.

[Tim Miller]

A swimming pool has nothing on these people but this.

[Donald Trump]

We need a good structure here, don't.

[Tim Miller]

We have once a while on Russia tv, they are like, yeah, I'm not so sure about all the deaths.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you.

[Sarah Longwell]

And my question is.

[Tim Miller]

Sorry. In on Syria, the Kurds as the.

[Donald Trump]

Most loyal US Partners facing attacks by some Syrian elements within the.

[Sarah Longwell]

Again, I'm sorry, but are there American journalists in the room that aren't from Lindell tv.

[Tim Miller]

MAGA journalists and foreigners are the only people he wants to talk to.

[Donald Trump]

Not real, just so you understand the.

[Tim Miller]

Kurds.

[Donald Trump]

And other things. So they were doing it for themselves, more so than they were doing it for us. But we got along with the Kurds and we are trying to protect the Kurds. That's correct. In Davos.

[Tim Miller]

Can you give us a preview of what we can expect as far as.

[Sarah Longwell]

You know, laying out the plans for Americans to.

[Tim Miller]

To be able to buy homes?

[Donald Trump]

I think more than anything else, what I'm going to be speaking about is the tremendous success that we've had in one year. I didn't think we could do it this fast. Think of it, it's just now 12 months. And, you know, I say it often. We have the most successful country in the world. We have the hottest country anywhere in the world by far. And this country would have been absolutely stone cold dead. And I'm going to be talking about it. I'm going to be. Because, you know, a lot of them from measles, though, what we did. They need energy. That you take a look at their energy policies. They're going to destroy themselves with what they're doing, with the windmills and all the nonsense. They need energy.

[Tim Miller]

Second mention of windmills, the greatest threat to world peace.

[Donald Trump]

Windmills help badly.

[JVL]

Rotary menace, as I like to think of them.

[Donald Trump]

I have a very. I have a very important call with President Erdogan, who I like, who I like a lot.

[Tim Miller]

To talk to Erdogan, because the ISIS member that him and Erdogan put in charge of Syria is currently slitting people's throats and letting terrorists out of prison.

[Sarah Longwell]

You talked a lot at the beginning of this about the economy. Some positive economic indicators. Polling shows the majority of Americans don't feel the economy is doing well. Are you worried you're making the same mistake as President Biden?

[Donald Trump]

I hope I don't make the same mistake as him. Look, I inherited a terrible. I mean, it's a great question. Because he said we inherited a terrible, terrible mess.

[Tim Miller]

What a stupid question that was.

[Donald Trump]

All the problems, the whole country was falling apart. And in 12 months, less than 12 months, I mean, in 12 months, we have the strongest border we've ever had. We have prices that are much, much lower than they were for the last we inherited.

[Sarah Longwell]

No they're not.

[Tim Miller]

No they're not called the governor of Minnesota and that apparently didn't come up in that in the Q A.

[JVL]

Well I mean you know why would.

[Donald Trump]

It Years or ever a lot of.

[JVL]

Questions about Kurds in Syria in my.

[Donald Trump]

Very important that we've ever had because.

[Tim Miller]

Of that more than the 2020 machine.

[Donald Trump]

We brought down eggs immediately. Remember the first news conference they were screaming at me about eggs. I was in the position for two days and they squid. We brought eggs down to lower than what they were before and by the way they continue that way. We brought the prices down from when I came into office and from what Biden had way down. We're going to bring them down further. But the job we did is is a miracle.

[JVL]

We're going to pay you to take groceries out of the store.

[Donald Trump]

We inherited a mess and we've made it a beautiful, beautiful picture. Think of gasoline at a dollar 99 in many states it's already done 99 cents already done.

[Tim Miller]

The gas we kind of lost over. I kind of missed where he said that the tariff rebate checks which I don't believe are real but he's like if they do have those everything I don't think we'll go the Congress route.

[JVL]

And I don't think we'll go to the Congress route and also we're going to make sure they don't go to the people who don't need them or something like there was a formulation that like we're going to means test them.

[Tim Miller]

So just, just the federal. Just the executive just going to decide Congress doesn't have any role here.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, he's going to sign the checks and send them out right before the 2026.

[JVL]

Well they're from the terror. They're from the tariff treasury though so that this would be.

[Tim Miller]

Why is that a constitutional. Is that in. Is that how we do things?

[JVL]

Well, that money, that money belongs to the executive, Timothy.

[Tim Miller]

Is that right? Is that how Hamilton set it up?

[JVL]

I I mean when you set all up on the honor system Tim, this is where you end up oil prices.

[Sarah Longwell]

I'll put it in a bank account.

[Donald Trump]

And cut her and they've already come down again $1 and 99 cents a gallon for oil. Nobody thought they'd ever see it. All right, one or two more.

[JVL]

Oh, we're gonna keep going.

[Tim Miller]

I just want someone to log in. Will somebody mog him?

[Sarah Longwell]

I want to Ask you about Iran. Is the military option still on the table? And can you assure us that the killing in Iran has stopped? And when regard to the UP Council, which members have to pay one.

[Donald Trump]

So with Iran. Are you from Iran?

[Sarah Longwell]

No, I cover the White House.

[Donald Trump]

Where are you from?

[Sarah Longwell]

I'm Palestinian American.

[Donald Trump]

So with Iran, they were going to hang 837 people and I let them be.

[JVL]

What if those people were drug dealers?

[Donald Trump]

Let them know that if that happens, that will be a very.

[JVL]

We hang drug dealers. What if they were and they decided protesters.

[Donald Trump]

They didn't hang the people. I can't tell you what's going to happen in the future, but supposedly they've taken that off the table. But they were going to last week they were going to hang on Thursday or Wednesday one they were going to hang, I think 837 people and they didn't hang anybody.

[JVL]

Why is he so soft on crime.

[Donald Trump]

To see what happened in law and order? Is the military.

[JVL]

He just wants to defund the police.

[Tim Miller]

I don't think he's up to speed on what's happening. That's shocking. But killings have continued since.

[JVL]

Thank you, Mr. President.

[Donald Trump]

Go ahead. I'll take your question. Go ahead. Right here.

[Tim Miller]

Thank you. Mr. President, you promised during your second.

[Donald Trump]

Inaugural to always put America first.

[Sarah Longwell]

I'm curious, how would you winning the.

[Tim Miller]

Nobel Peace Prize improve the lives of average everyday Americans? Why is this prize so important?

[Donald Trump]

It wouldn't improve the lives of any. But what improved the lives of people are people that are living. I saved probably tens of millions of lives in the wars. You know, if you add up numbers, just, just if you look at, if you look at any one of those wars, you're talking about millions of people. You multiply times eight. When you look at India and Pakistan.

[Tim Miller]

How is your obsession with the Nobel Peace Prize? America First. His answer is I saved the lives of tens of millions of foreigners.

[Donald Trump]

So that to me is the big thing.

[Tim Miller]

I'm sure that America first voters were really concerned about the skirmish over the Nile Bridge. Positive story about the economy isn't getting.

[Sarah Longwell]

Through is because of, you know, bad communications people.

[Tim Miller]

But are average Americans wrong to still feel high prices? And how much longer does the White.

[Donald Trump]

House hope that they. So I think a lot of people, a lot of people are listening to the fake news a little bit. And I'm not blaming anybody. I think I blame ourselves. I think we've done a much better job than we're able to promote. We're not promoting. We're doing a great job and we're sort of letting the promotion take care of itself. One of the reasons I'm doing this news conference, I think it's important. We have taken a mess and made it really good. It's going to get even better. But if you look at prices from a year or a year and a half ago, you look at the Biden prices, they were way up through the sky. And, you know, they use the word affordability. They just say affordability and they don't talk about it. They created the affordability problem and we have. We are solving it. We have solved a lot of it. Again, everybody agrees in this room, I think gasoline prices have come per gallon way down. When that happens, everything else comes down, but they've come down way down. Many of the groceries have come way down. It's all happening and it's happening strong. But if you go back a year, a year and a half, two years, take a look at those prices and look at the prices now.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, they're still high.

[Donald Trump]

You made a condition. Where are you from?

[Sarah Longwell]

I'm from Spain. Thank you.

[Donald Trump]

You made a condition that the political prisoners should be freed. It seems that they are not being as fast as they promised in the beginning. Would that be an issue for the current government? They've agreed that they're going to let, I guess, most of them out. Depends on what they did. But they have released a lot of. They have a lot released a lot of political prisoners in Venezuela.

[Sarah Longwell]

Earlier on last year, you had mentioned, you had indicated that you wanted to.

[Tim Miller]

Take back the Panama Canal.

[Donald Trump]

I know.

[Tim Miller]

We've looked.

[Sarah Longwell]

We've heard a lot about Greenland.

[Tim Miller]

Is that still on the table?

[Donald Trump]

I don't want to tell you that. Okay, one more. Yes.

[Tim Miller]

Blonde.

[Donald Trump]

Blue. Yes, go ahead, ma'. Am. Go ahead. With the blue holding the computer.

[Sarah Longwell]

If a consequence of your determination to take control of Greenland, still not an American. The NATO alliance, is that a price you're willing to pay?

[Donald Trump]

You mean the breakup of. Of. It's very interesting. So I think something's going to happen that's going to be very good for everybody. Nobody's done more for NATO than I have. As I said before, nobody in every way. Getting them to go up to 5% of GDP was something that nobody thought was. And pay at 2%. They weren't paying at 5%. They are paying and they're buying a lot of things from us and they're giving them, I guess, to Ukraine. That's up to them. But they're giving them to whoever they're giving them to. But they're buying a lot. I think that we will work something out when NATO is going to be very happy and where we're going to be very happy. But we need it for security purposes. We need it for national security and even world security. It's very important. How about.

[JVL]

Thank you very much. First of all, last year you told me that you believe that the reason.

[Tim Miller]

You won election is because God put.

[JVL]

You in this place so that you.

[Tim Miller]

Could save the world.

[JVL]

Looking back one year, do you feel.

[Donald Trump]

Like God is proud of the effort that you've. I do, actually. I think God is very proud of the job I've done and that includes religion, protecting a lot of people that are being killed. Christians, Jewish people. Lots of people are being protected by me that wouldn't be protected by another type.

[JVL]

Yes.

[Donald Trump]

No, I think. I think a lot of people are very proud.

[Tim Miller]

What did God think about amazing year? This is probably proud.

[Donald Trump]

Greatest years, even some important people that wouldn't necessarily love me instinctively. They're saying this was Old Testament.

[Tim Miller]

God.

[Donald Trump]

Look at our border. Our border was looking to turn someone.

[JVL]

Into a pillar of salt.

[Donald Trump]

It was an invasion, salt into our country very strongly.

[JVL]

Very bad people brought the price of salt down.

[Donald Trump]

A lot of very bad people because.

[Tim Miller]

Of the big pillars that I've used.

[Donald Trump]

Drug dealers and gangs and horrible people. Murderers. Thousands and thousands of murderers allowed into our country. And we now have the strongest border of any country. There's probably not a country, I guess North Korea is a pretty strong border, by the way. But there's not a country in the world that has a border like that. We took it from the worst border. We had the worst border. Now we have one of the strongest borders.

[Sarah Longwell]

One more.

[Donald Trump]

One more question.

[Tim Miller]

If this is the last question I'm.

[Sarah Longwell]

Going to get worked out in. The Greenlanders have made it clear they don't want to be part of the.

[Donald Trump]

U.S. well, I haven't. When I speak to them, sure they'll be thrilled.

[JVL]

I'm sure they'll be thrilled.

[Sarah Longwell]

Mr. President, are you committed to keeping the U.S. in NATO?

[Donald Trump]

I've. I've had a. Such a good relationship. I've made it so much better, so much stronger. It's so good now. NATO is so much stronger now. I don't agree with a lot of the things they've done, but that was done before I got there. I think NATO has been good. Sometimes it's overrated, sometimes it's not. But we have a strong NATO. When I came here, we had a weak NATO. We had a NATO at 2% and they weren't paying. You had a nothing. NATO. NATO's. Whether you like it or not, it's only as good as we are. If NATO doesn't have us, NATO is not very strong. Thank you, President Trump. Yes, go ahead.

[Tim Miller]

Greatly appreciate it, sir. We've heard a long list of accomplishments from the last year. Could you cherry not wearing a belt, unfortunately.

[JVL]

Looking forward, what are your three most important priorities? So I think things you did has.

[Donald Trump]

Been a great achievement and that would include the Venezuela thing, that would include the attack on Iran and the wiping out of the nuclear threat. I think that's been really amazing. What we've done militarily. I think what we've done in business has been incredible. We have $18 trillion coming in. Plants are being built all over the thousands of plants are being built all over the country.

[Sarah Longwell]

18 trillion because of Biden's infrastructure bill.

[Donald Trump]

Ever come anywhere even close to that? I think that's a record. And I think that most favored nations for drugs is something that nobody thought they'd be able to get. Tariffs helped me there because the nations would have never gone along with it if I wasn't able to say, if you don't go along with it, we're going to put a 10 or 15 or 20% tariff on your nation. And they went along. And our drug prices are going to come down at numbers never even seen before, never even thought possible before. So those would be three things.

[JVL]

Thank you.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you all very much.

[Sarah Longwell]

Thank you very much.

[Tim Miller]

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[Sarah Longwell]

Are we gonna tape a whole show now?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, a whole show. We have podcast to do.

[Sarah Longwell]

Are we gonna stop and do it, or are we gonna just stay here and do it live?

[JVL]

Do it live, Sarah.

[Tim Miller]

We'll do it live. To handle that. He stood up there with his bruised hands and those fat feet because the blood flow isn't running because of all the Tylenol he's taking.

[JVL]

All right, let's do this. Hello, everyone. I'm jvl here with my best friends Sarah Longwell and Tim Miller of the Bulwark. And today, I weep for our nation. We just sat through a extended press conference from the President of the United States in which he listed the 365amazing things he did. Yuval Levin, hardest hit. I don't know if you guys saw this. Yuval just wrote a piece for the Atlantic in which he explained that. Actually, don't be alarmed. Trump hasn't done nearly as much as you think. Donald Trump is here to argue with Mr. Levin and say that he's accomplished so much. I don't even really know where to start. Except that. Will, I would like, Sarah, you to set the table, because I believe you. You are going to say that what's really important here is the indicator that Trump felt he had to do this.

[Sarah Longwell]

That is where I'm going to start. I mean, when he started talking and we. We decided to go and watch the press conference, I was like, okay, it's very clear what is happening here. This is a guy who feels like. And you heard it there, him saying, our PR is not very good. It's because the story's not getting out. And what Trump does when he feels like people are not on his narrative. And this Is, you know, Tim was saying something earlier about how he wants to give him credit for standing there for such a long period of time. There's, there's something real in that, which is that Trump does view his job. And I, I do wish that Joe Biden had done some versions of this. Not that, but this idea of, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take the bully pulpit and I'm gonna try to bully people into seeing the world my way. But it is a reaction from Trump of people just aren't noticing how good everything is. How can they be having, how can they be angry? And so he is trying to reset through the sheer force of his will, our understanding of the world. That's what that press conference was.

[Tim Miller]

I agree with that. And obviously it's a sign that he feels that the, you know, his political standing in the country is not that great. And so, I mean, in some ways, that was the most normal part of that two hour assembly press conference. Every president and every governor in the country and throughout history has always had a moment where they look at their team and they're like, we're not doing enough PR about all the great things we're doing. We should have a press conference and talk about it. Right? It's like that is, you know, I think, you know, the normal political rules of gravity applying to him. Everything else is abnormal. And the thing to me, like, the biggest picture reaction to all that is just as a consumer is I watched it right on the heels of watching Mark Carney's speech, the Canadian Prime Minister and Macron, just watching clips of Mark Carney and Macron. I didn't sit through both of their entire speeches. Obviously everyone's gathering at Davos and the World Economic Forum. And I mean, both of both Carney and Macron speeches were very serious and severe about the state of where we're at. You know, and Macron was really focusing on, you know, kind of speaking to business leaders and set and saying just bluntly, like, yes, Europe has its problems. Yes, we have too much red tape, it's too slow at times. But like, we believe in the rule of law here. You know, we are not insane. Like, we will invest in science and research for you. And as you look around the world right now, like, we're the only safe harbor for you, basically lumping the US in with Russia and China, I mean, that's a big moment for the, for the leader of France to say that. Meanwhile the Prime Minister of Canada saying, at the same time, you know, we need to look at a different global world order where these kind of more mid to high mid tier countries like to work together.

[JVL]

The mid majors.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, the mid majors, Right. Work together to create a block of their own. So, I mean, these two leaders, like, are having these very serious, momentous conversations about how the US Basically needs to be left behind because we're a menace on the world stage. And for that to happen this morning and then Trump this afternoon to go up and do that, like this kind of just dissembling, rambling mess, talking about election fraud, like doing Grandpa Simpson stuff. Pictures of criminals, you know, fighting with the binder, you know, and then when this big topic comes up of this, like, major diplomatic crisis and leaders around the world pivoting away from us, he just, he doesn't even have a clear message on it. Like, it's not even as if he's like, menacing, like Putin or whatever, like, has a coherent message about why, you know, Canada and France better get in line. It's like nothing again. It's like rambling, unserious.

[Sarah Longwell]

It's like, you'll find out.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, yeah, it's just, it's very, it's very unserious, I guess is what I come back to. And that's kind of obvious that Trump is unserious. Like, in this moment, like as a split screen with what was happening, you know, in Davos, I thought it was particularly stark versus, like, if he had done that performance on a random Wednesday to kind of like, okay, well, this is what we signed up for. But like, he's, he's, he's a moron. But to do it when tensions are this high with our allies is pretty striking.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, can we just, can we, can we drill down on that for one, Be care.

[JVL]

I mean, I. Do you want to go deep on Greenland now? Because I kind of wanted to push Greenland a little bit, but if you, if you want to do some of this now, that's fine.

[Sarah Longwell]

The only thing I want to say, and this, actually, I did read your Triad today, so I know that you wrote about this, but. But to Tim's point, and I just want to say this incredibly clearly for the audience, we are in the middle right now on this day of the total reshuffling of the world order. Like, and one of Trump's superpowers is. And I think you can see this with us, right? What he just did was so insane and unserious that, that you want to laugh at him. You want to be like, right, everybody's seeing what I'm seeing. Everybody's seeing how crazy this is. But actually the way the world is reacting to what is happening is deadly serious. We are watching the sphere of influence of the United States be drowned out by our insanity. And for everybody, all these other world leaders right now are figuring out what do we do in the power vacuum that the United States is leaving the world, the globe, like, how do we, are we going to arm ourselves nuclearly? Like, are we gonna, we are forming new allied alliances. You've got people like Canada going to China, who just a couple of years ago, they were, they were, they were following America's lead. They were with us sanctioning China or not trading with China, just however America did it, because we were their allies. And now they are going to China being like, you know what? You're the more stable superpower. Let's reset our relationship like this. The absolute bigness of what is happening right now, I don't, I can't overstate it.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, yeah.

[JVL]

We, I can't find it in our slack, but our, our Canadian colleague Martin, while the Trump thing was ongoing, circulated a Canadian report that the Canadian military is now war gaming what to do and how to respond to an American invasion. So, like, that's, that's the level of change going on. We'll, we'll talk about all that eventually. I want to, I want to ask one question about the Trump press conference. We can talk about other stuff if.

[Tim Miller]

You want about it.

[JVL]

I was very, I was very curious about his ICE and immigration conversations because he did seem to be doing, running counter to the message that Stephen Miller has been projecting. He was projecting a sort of, you know, and we want lots of immigration. You know, we're, we're welcoming all the, we've been bringing in a lot of people legally. And this is not true. I mean, again, not true, but also not what's. What Stephen Miller wants. Stephen Miller wants to, to grind legal immigration to a halt. And he also said out loud, you know, look, if somebody comes here illegally, but then they spend all their time working and they work at a deli and whatnot there, you know, that's not really what this is all about. And we have to have a heart when it comes to ice. And of course they're going to make mistakes.

[Tim Miller]

Right?

[JVL]

This is a very different message than the rest of his administration is sending. And I, Please tell me what to make of it.

[Sarah Longwell]

He said both things. This is the pro, the thing that he did in this was to try to have it both ways. Right? He said a bunch of things that weren't true. And he was like, well, we need these immigrants for our great farmers. And so he was trying. He's. He's getting both things in his ears, right? He's hearing a lot of business leaders talk about how bad these immigration policies are for them. And so he is both trying to say, no, no, no, we're. We're those people we want here, while saying, look at all these nasty criminals. We're getting them out. And so it was. It was more that he was just trying to say all the things to all the people, which is something Trump does often.

[Tim Miller]

I want to. I want to answer that, but if people scroll back 20 seconds, they did get my live facial reaction to the news that Usha is pregnant. Oh, to throw that out there just. Just leads the brain to things you don't want it to. The. Here's my thing about Trump and this stuff. He doesn't have the stomach for it. Like, Trump is a complicated figure, right? Like, in your mind, you want to, you know, like, it's. It's. It's easy to caricature, right? And so it's, like, easier to understand these people's caricatures. Like, whereas, like, Trump is the worst. Like, Trump is the worst in a lot of ways, right? Like, there are a lot of ways in which Trump is uniquely bad. It's hard to imagine any other person literally in the entire country. Menace in Greenland right now, for one example. Like, Trump is, like, one of one, the worst when it comes to, like, his random megalomania, okay? He's also very bad when it comes to immigration, for example, but he's not the worst in his administration on it. He's not. Like, both J.D. vance and Stephen Miller have more extreme views on immigration than Trump himself does. And Trump is not an empathetic person, right? Like, it's not like he feels other people's pain in any way, but he doesn't. Like, you know, he doesn't like things to be uncomfortable. You know, like, there are some despots that, like, really do kind of have, like, a nose for blood, right? Like, they want. They like the bloodshed. It makes them feel stronger. Trump's little queasy. You know, Trump's a little bit of a wimp, right? He wants people to think he's strong, and he wants other people to be cracking down. But he doesn't really love, like, you saw this back to 2016, like, all the images of this stuff, like, when it makes him look, like, bad, he doesn't want to make it feel like he doesn't have to have an uncomfortable conversation with somebody with, you know, his granddaughter being like, did you see the pictures of the people? You know what I mean? Like, he, it makes him, he's a little queasy on this front. And so I do think that is just like the best way to understand him. Like, he is happy with Stephen Miller doing this crackdown. He wants there to be a crackdown. He wants to seem like he's strong and he wants, you know, the credit for going after the bad guys. But whereas, like, Stephen Miller and J.D. vance truly don't care about the elderly Hmong man that like, got brought out into the freezing cold in his underwear. And like, that's, they may even like that, you know, as part of the. Yeah, right, exactly. You know, Trump wants to focus on the pictures of the bad guys in his things and being like, it's those guys that are real bad, they're the killers. And like, we're going out to get them. And so in some, like, in the first term, that instinct of Trump, like, was, you know, people were able to use that against him to get him to back down from shit. I don't know what his off ramp is though, on this thing, like on the immigration thing. Like, I think he's a little queasy, but he's not going to go to Stephen Miller and Greg Bevino, them and tell him to dial it back. Right. Like, and it's, it's, you know, the ball is kind of rolling down the hill and it's like a little out of his control control now. Right. Like, you have new ICE agents are coming in every day, right. And they're moving to new cities and they have more people. And Trump doesn't control every single ICE goons decision making and every single encounter. Right. So I don't know. I mean, I think that, I think that it's true that Trump wishes that he didn't have some of the bad PR around this, but I don't think he knows how to stop it at this point or is willing to stop it because it would require him saying like, you know, we need, we went a little too far. You know what I mean? Like, there's no face saving off ramp.

[JVL]

Well, before we move off of this, I would just like to offer my personal favorite thing from that marathon. It was when he talked about how he had fired millions of federal workers and that he didn't feel bad about it because he has heard from many of them that they are thrilled because those people went and got jobs making twice or sometimes three times as much as their government salary working in factories. So very interested to hear what factory jobs the people at USAID may have caught on with that are paying 300% of their GS pay scale. Sounds great.

[Tim Miller]

That was pretty good. I wouldn't say that's in my top three, though. My top three were the Mike Lindell TV person. Ask about the Venezuelan machines at the press conference, whether Maduro being in custody means we'll get any more clarity on the way that the Venezuelans rigged the 2020 election. Trump said he's going to leave that to his lawyers. Then I did also like the part where he almost injured himself on the paper clip and then threw the papers down on the ground angrily. That would have been in my. I've had to watch all this. You got to have a list of favorites. When he was asked about being America first and what he's done for America first. And then he talks about all of the foreigners whose lives he saves through his imaginary peace deals. And then the lady shouting, shame him saying that she was a professional opera singer and that means that she must be getting paid by the liberal left. Those are my. That's the top four for me.

[Sarah Longwell]

I'll say. Some of mine just really quickly were when he talked about criminals and then said the Hell's angel, that the criminals that we're deporting are worse than the Hell's Angels. But he likes the Hells Angels because they supported him. And also on the paperclip thing, that's.

[Tim Miller]

A, that's a brain teaser.

[Sarah Longwell]

But on the, on the whole paperclip thing, actually, that was. That was early on and it was. He did went on a long rift about how if it had hurt his finger and torn his finger off, he would have never shown the pain because he's not weak. To show the pain of the paperclip. And he was like aggressively holding up the paperclip to show how it could have hurt him. I actually, I think it's important to understand how much he lied through that whole thing. At one point he said, I mean, not like almost nothing he said was true. Also, the Macklin Dell TV was one of the only Americans to ask a question in that entire press conference. The vast majority of them were foreign press, which I don't understand. Like, where are the American journalists who would ask him real questions? It was like maggot. There were a couple MAGA journalists. Maybe one question that was tough in there of any of them. He also said drug prices were coming down 600%. This is a guy who was never going to understand how percentages work. And it's definitely a lie because no one's paying you to get these drugs.

[JVL]

So there's a lot of like trade deficit is down 67%.

[Donald Trump]

The.

[JVL]

Oh, he did one about.

[Tim Miller]

Hey JBL, would you take your phone off the desk and just like throw it across the room or something? I'm sorry, I'm already thinking about self harm after the, after watching Trump for two hours and now I'm putting my busy person.

[Sarah Longwell]

You know what, it's because I put my do not disturb on for a whole hour and that was on for hours and hours ago.

[JVL]

So he also said that they had reduced the budget deficit by. And here I can't see my notes whether I don't know if it's 20, 23% or 26%. Again, I'm not OMB. I haven't run the numbers on this, but I'm pretty sure that he did not reduce the budget deficit of the United States by 23 or 26% or at all, you know.

[Tim Miller]

Sure.

[JVL]

Because we don't live in a war again. George H.W. bush is standing up there. It's 1990. He says, we have, we have reduced the budget deficit by 23%. And the next day every newspaper in America, you know, president lies to the country, doesn't understand simple numbers.

[Tim Miller]

Thanks for that fact check, jbl. I mean I might focus on the bigger like something like maybe he mixed up Greenland. The country is trying to invade with Iceland at one point it seems like also possible.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, I was like, why are we talking about Iceland? It's because he was confusing it.

[JVL]

Greenland possible. All right, before we move on, I gotta read a word from our sponsor. Thanks to our friends at bowl and Branch, the show is sponsored by Bole and Branch. Bowl and Branch is here to help you get the sleep of your dreams every time you turn in for the night. Boll and Branch's signature sheets and waffle bed blanket are a must have bedding combination. I have both of them on my bed at home right now. The signature sheet set is an iconic, essential love for its buttery, soft feel that gets softer with every wash. The waffle bed blanket drapes you in the soft, springy, near weightless warmth of its coveted texture. It's really good. Together they create the softest, most breathable bedding experience. Designed for better sleep season after season. Even though I'm here in the city that never sleeps, I sleep just fine. Both the signature sheets and waffle blanket are loved by millions of sleepers. Woven by artisans with the finest 100% organic cotton and the highest level of craftsmanship. Designed for breathable sleep so you can add more layers without making your bed feel heavy or hot. Made to get softer with every wash. Designed to mix and match with over 300 color combinations and they can be yours to try with a 30 night worry free guarantee. Discover a softness beyond your wildest dreams with bowl and Branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bull and branch.com nextlevel with code next level that's Boland Branch B O L L a n d branch.com next level code next level to unlock 15% off exclusions apply.

[Tim Miller]

I'm sorry. Trump saying that God was proud of him was actually I had to. I had. I just, I feel like I have to get that into my top five. It's a top five ranking now.

[Sarah Longwell]

That was one of the journalist questions is do you think God would be proud of you?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[JVL]

Boy, things are great. All right, so let's talk about Greenland. Originally we were going to do an entire show about Greenland. I have been kind of going out of my mind. I don't know if you guys have noticed that we had a long weekend. I was up doing like a 40 minute YouTube with Edgar and who was it with? Was it Edgar and Sam? Who can even say on the weekend when Trump set out his the release of the note that he had sent to the prime minister of Norway. And I just don't see any way in which this isn't the end of the American led world order that began in 1945. And Sarah, you touched on this a little.

[Tim Miller]

You don't see any earlier.

[JVL]

I'd like to go. I don't see any way in which it isn't the end.

[Tim Miller]

I'm really dark but I think see potentially some ways but. Great. Let's hear your.

[JVL]

Well, and my pitch is that it doesn't matter what America does because the rest of the world sees what we can do now and sees what we can be. And so they've got to go another way. I mean, so Mark Carney said this explicitly today in his speech at Davos. He said that there is no going back. He's just right. Like as a, as a matter of how international relations works, you don't go back from that. I mean not except on the timeline of like decades or generations. Right. You know, in another thing Emmanuel Macron said today, Tim, when in his remarks he called for more Chinese investment in Europe. This is Europe is going to Go running into the arms of China. This is going to be very, very all very good for China. I don't know, guys, am I somebody want to talk me off the ledge here?

[Tim Miller]

We'll just. Unless. Sarah, do you want to talk him off?

[Sarah Longwell]

Well, I just. No, you go ahead. Because I podcast with him all the time, so I'm used to him taking the maximalist position, which is like, we will never get out of this one. Of course, like there are some mechanisms potentially to get out of this. But he's not wrong typically to argue that this is extremely bad and that what is happening right now is unprecedented over the last 80 years and that everybody who is alive right now has been living through an incredible era of peace and prosperity in America because of the global stability that the post World War II order conferred upon us. And we are gambling it away right this minute. That is what's happening.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. So here are my combined thoughts. Number one, you mentioned earlier the Canadian this note about how the Canadian armed forces have modeled a hypothetical US Military invasion of Canada and the country's potential response includes tactics similar to those employed against Russia and later US Led forces in Afghanistan. Two senior officials said that's just a public tweet. I should note, just for comedy's sake. In the reply, Wall Street Journal opinion columnist Jarred Baker replies, to be fair, I'd imagine such a model has always been sitting around in Canada. So that's an offense. And I think that there's something instructive about that response, right? Because like I think that in some ways I think jvl, you're probably right about the world order, like there being no going back to the old American world order in the sense that like the most likely outcome in any situation is some version of a muddle through, right? Not like a dramatic things change. Sometimes there's dramatic things where things change dramatically overnight. But if you're Europe and Canada right now in Australia, maybe some other countries, that's what you really want. I know you want a normal America, but that's over. And so what you really want is some kind of muddle through, right? Where it's like you start to engage with China more, right? You start to invest in your own military more. You, as you've mentioned a couple of times, jbl, like you start, you maybe add some additional nuclear countries that weren't nuclear before. You know, maybe you do different types of trade agreement and EU's already work together. But like other sorts of, you know, both economic and political and military agreements happen around us, you Know, between Canada and Europe and other countries. Right. And. And to me, like, I think that part has happened. Right. And if you just listen to Carney today, it's like, it's hard to imagine how that gets. Gets re. Unwound right now. You can imagine some version of, like, America kind of re. Engaging with all of that at some point, you know, where it, like, looks kind of similar to how it looked before. Like, you could imagine that. Right. But I think what is incumbent upon that, what I'm the most frustrated with is, like, is an actual effort to rebuke Trump, you know, and there isn't any of that, like, from within the Republican Party, from business leaders. Like, if there was some message, some signal being sent, like, guys, like, we're like, there's this internal fight we're having. Like, there's one normal party that wants to keep working with you, and then there's kind of a dispute happening in the other party. But it's hard to interpret what's happening is that right now because, you know, you'll have some people, Thom Tillis or Mikowski, whatever, Mike Lawler and a couple business leaders saying, like, this is an ideal, but none of them are, like, actually rebuking him. None of them are saying that, like, this is a red line for them. It's funny. I think it was. Was it Andrew Sullivan? So somebody, like, say that. That Greenland is a red line. And I was like, well, okay, for who? I don't. Because I don't see Greenland as a red line for anybody right now. Like, everybody who's.

[Sarah Longwell]

Except the Europeans, sure.

[Tim Miller]

Right. But people who are opposed to Trump, Trump, or, like, are opposed to this. I just mean the red line in the sense of, like, people who are like, I was okay with Trump, or I was Trump accommodating or as pro Trump, like, if he does this, then I'm. Then I'm with the Bulwark crowd. I don't see anybody doing that.

[JVL]

I think all of Europe is that. Well, do you mean any. Anybody?

[Tim Miller]

I meant domestically.

[JVL]

Oh, okay.

[Sarah Longwell]

And he's right about that. Right? Like, Like Tim's point, which I think is correct.

[JVL]

Totally true.

[Sarah Longwell]

If people saw the American Congress, especially the members of Trump's own party, standing up and saying, absolutely, we will not do this. If they were getting tons of back channels saying, you know, this isn't going to happen, but they have no reason to be able to trust Republicans in Congress at this point, and they're not standing up. Even Tillis is doing, like, this guy's going to Be gone. He's, he's already retired and he won't even say he's doing this. Like Trump's getting bad advice. I'm not criticizing the president. And so, you know, what else is Europe supposed to do besides take us at our word that we are not going to do anything about Trump? And so what Europe is doing, and this is to JVL's point, right? So Denmark, because Trump announced, you may have noticed the market is down because Trump has announced new tariffs, 10% on eight European nations that are opposing his quest for Greenland. And so he says this is going to rise to 25% on June 1 if the deal is not in place for the complete and total purchase of Greenland. And so that's Denmark, Norway, Sweden, France, Germany, the UK The Netherlands and Finland. And so it's unclear how these are going to be implemented because the EU acts as like a single economic zone. So I don't know exactly how that's going to work. But like, you know, you've got now the European Commission, they've met, they're coming together to figure out how to oppose us, how to do retaliatory tariffs against us because of what we're doing. Like that is now, do, do think about, just to Tim's point, about the fact that there are, there are ways in which this can kind of come, come back. If you see that Canada is willing to deal with China at a moment when we're behaving like psychopaths. Well, China are psychopath like they are. They are more stable than us because they are stable. They're a stable corruption.

[Tim Miller]

So that there's potentially some rickety holes in the stability of China. I don't know like what happens if she dies. And you know, like, I don't. We think that they're stable. They haven't had a stable transition in.

[Sarah Longwell]

A while, I guess. I guess my only point is that they're more stable than us, maybe right in this moment. And so people are willing to deal with them in this moment in a different way. And I think if people look at the United, if the United States finds its way back to something more normal, I do think, I don't think it's like the end of our relationship with the world depending on how bad it gets.

[Tim Miller]

Right. All right, let me just. One more thing, just one second. All right, sorry, sorry. But like, just as an example of how there's no reason they can trust that there'd be a long term stable relationship between the parties. It's like Ted Cruz who is positioning sell himself right now to run in the failed Nikki Haley Lane. Right. Like, is to be the normal internationalist counter to JD Vance, and who knows, maybe some Trump family member or something.

[JVL]

He.

[Tim Miller]

He is, like, vociferously in favor of the Greenland takeover. Yeah, Right. So it's like there's, you know, I mean, the people who are speaking against it within the Republican Party, the tiny number are all people that are either retiring or are like weird outliers like Lisa Murkowski.

[JVL]

So. So this is. I'm sorry, go ahead. Go ahead, Sarah.

[Sarah Longwell]

Well, the only thing is, like, there is no indication from polling, from official conversations that taking Greenland is popular or interesting to anyone other than Trump himself. Right? Like, this is Trump doing, like, his. He thinks, like, he still thinks things are like, the art of the deal. This is how he thinks about international relations. You know, in his mind, Greenland is just this, like, plot of land that he wants to build a shitty hotel on, and that's that. Like, that's what he's doing. And I think that Trump is having, like, the. The most fun for him is thinking about ways he can coerce the world into letting him have Greenland. So he wants to play hardball, right? Even if it means destroying the global world order to do it. Because he thinks, like, oh, I'll do some tariffs as leverage, and then the world will come around to see my way of things. Boom, we get Greenland.

[JVL]

So I want to sort of walk you guys down into my pit of despair a little bit. Take this journey with me. I don't think there is a foreseeable future in which Greenland is not a disputed territory between Europe and the United States, because as you guys just said, like, the Republican Party has now laid a territorial claim on Greenland. It is a claim for national security. And once that's been, that marker is laid down, well, that is the position of one of the two major parties. And that party is going to have a chance to hold the presidency every four years. Like it.

[Tim Miller]

The island of Diego Garcia. Do you think that'll be in dispute continually?

[JVL]

So here's. Here's the. Here's the question, right? So the Panama Canal permanently dispute. Panama is not a NATO treaty member. Right. Like, what makes it problematic is its aggression against. Not some, you know, local small nation that you can dominate or ignore, but against. The EU's economy put together is roughly the same size as America's. Right. They do have nuclear weapons. In a disputed territory between two major powers is dangerous.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, sure, I guess. I don't know. I mean, you know, this is now be this era. You're like doing the maximalist thing. Like, I don't fucking know. This is all stupid. And it's like all Trump has just made it all up and there's no broad basis of support for it. So I don't know, could Trump wake.

[JVL]

Up in the Republican Party? There is.

[Tim Miller]

Okay. But no, not really. I mean, I guess my point is, could the, I don't know, who wouldn't even negotiate, that's the fucking prime minister of Denmark. And you know, some other European leaders, like, say to Trump, you know, we're going to give you this, that and the other thing. We're going to put a Trump hotel here. We're going to build, we're going to pay for two more military bases and then try. Trump can go back and say, hey, the Europeans are paying for these two military bases in Greenland and we're going to put the golden dome there and we're going to call it the Trump base. And I've, and I've agreed with that. That would stop the dispute. I'm not saying that.

[JVL]

Not from Europe's perspective though, right? This is.

[Tim Miller]

Well, if Europe agreed to that, sure.

[JVL]

They might agree to things short term, but that doesn't, that doesn't. Again, their long term plans have to be decoupling. I just don't understand.

[Tim Miller]

Anyway, again, decoupling at some level, like this is kind of like the debate over authoritarianism is like, is Trump an authoritarian? I'm like, he's not North Korea, Is he Orban? Like, those are two very different style countries that are both authoritarian. Like, they're.

[JVL]

Well, so depends on where you live. If you live in Minneapolis right now.

[Tim Miller]

Yuba, Minneapolis is not like North Korea. You can decouple from Cuba in a way that you do. No trade, no travel, no whatever. And, or you can decouple in the way that at times we've decoupled from China or we're trying to decouple from China now. Like, less trade, more alliances.

[JVL]

Cuba was never again, Cuba was never a treaty ally. Right. This is, again, the fact that the United States is part of NATO just makes that there is no.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, I think things are unbelievably bad, dangerous. The idea that we. Greenland is a permanent, like a permanent security risk. I just, I don't, I don't agree with that.

[Sarah Longwell]

This is where jbl, you just, you sort of feel be like, JBL is right on the sentiment and maybe not entirely on like the specifics and merits because it's like, yeah, right. There's like a lot of ways that we could, you know, President Josh Shapiro can, can walk, can figure out how to, how to pull some of this back. But JBL's point is basically right about what is being fundamentally altered for a very long time, like at least decades, maybe generations, is people cannot trust the United States the way that they used to. And, and we are going to start being treated almost unfathomably as a potentially hostile power in the globe. Yeah. Like not far from the world's policemen, people are going to start figuring out ways to like keep us out of their countries.

[JVL]

So which leads me to the second question, which is how is, you know what? We'll do the next ad first. Then I'll ask, then I'll ask you my question.

[Tim Miller]

That's a good.

[JVL]

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[Tim Miller]

That's right. I forgot about that the other night.

[JVL]

Every night.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I had eaten kind of a heavy appetizer and Toulouse walked up to me and she was like, what's, where's dinner? And I was like, oh right, I've got to feed you every night. Strange right?

[JVL]

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[Tim Miller]

Wait.

[JVL]

That's code next level Graza. Greenchef.com next level Graza. So here's my question. You guys like my, my maximalist.

[Tim Miller]

How.

[JVL]

How is the American approach, did.

[Tim Miller]

Somebody say that quote, was that substantially.

[JVL]

Different from the Russian approach to Ukraine? We haven't invaded yet. Go ahead.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, sure, I can answer that one. We haven't kidnapped any of the children of Nuke yet. So that's one. Well, so that's a substantially different.

[JVL]

But I said the approach, not the carryout. Right. So the approach, which is that Greenland isn't a real country, that it should belong to us historically anyway, because we also landed boats there, that it is vital to our national security and that NATO is thwarting us.

[Tim Miller]

Yes, I can find this one again. Yeah, because also that happened over like a decade and a half where Putin was an autocrat and where he made small incursions into other parts of Ukraine. And Donald Trump, as of now, I know what you're going to go with this JVL is constitutionally term limited to leave in three years when he'll be 82 years old and dementia riddled. And so I just, I do think that there's some, that, that is another difference. And if we like go and take over like a little bit of Greenland, we go and like plant our flag in one piece of ice, then that'd be concerning because that would be pretty much the same.

[JVL]

Well, stay tuned.

[Sarah Longwell]

This is a really good, this is a really good transition, though, because what I really wanted to talk about on the show when it comes to Greenland is Trump's new Board of Peace. Because I actually think this squares the circle on JBL's general correctness. This goes to how you have to triangulate jvl, but his general correctness that Trump does not want to not be in charge. I just think that Trump has decided that he will not be president of the United States. He's going to be the head of the new world, global war, world order. This is how he is going to leave office but still remain in charge. Okay, so this Board of Peace, for people who are unfamiliar, is where Trump is saying, if you give me a billion dollars, you get a permanent sense seat on the new Board of Peace. Now what a deal. Now you only get if you won't pony up the money, you don't get a lifetime appointment. You get like a three, three years. But he is trying to build an alternative to NATO in which Orban is invited and Putin is invited and many of the dictators.

[Tim Miller]

Lukashenko has already.

[Sarah Longwell]

Lukashenko has said yes, right? Yes. They will take a billion dollars that they've stolen from people and you know what? Of corrupt money to buy into Trump's Board of Peace. So that Trump, because at the head of the Board of Peace, it is a lifetime appointment. This is how.

[JVL]

Who's the head gonna be?

[Sarah Longwell]

Yes, exactly. So, jbl, we don't know yet.

[JVL]

They have to vote.

[Sarah Longwell]

No, of course it'll be Trump. This is the point. This is how he's gonna do it. He doesn't want to be President of the United States anymore, JBL, he wants, he wants Marco Rubio and J.D. vance to run the United States while he is in charge of the world at his fakely named Board of Peace. That's my theory.

[Tim Miller]

It almost kind of sounds like a new world order of some kind.

[JVL]

They can use black helicopters in this port of peace. That be something people care about.

[Sarah Longwell]

I don't know. But this is what he's going to announce at Davos. Like, he's going to save a rattle on Greenland and then he's going to announce his Board of Peace.

[Tim Miller]

I, I mean, I just say, I just want to be like, go ahead. Like, is this, I can't tell if this is real. Like, am I supposed to. What, like, what is the Board of Peace going to do? Like, what? I, I just, I, I, I understand it in the, in the narrow sense of like he wanted, you know, he's doing the spoil system for Gaza. And like Trump, you know, it's good because there, because that's some good property for Trump. Hotels, maybe some security risks, but, you know, whereas Nuke, not that great in October, but, you know, most of the year people can go to the golf course and etc. In Gaza. But I don't really understand what the Board of Peace's remit is going to be beyond that, I guess, is going to be enforcing what the authority I don't have. They said, do we know the whole thing is just so stupid.

[Sarah Longwell]

Well, no, it, I mean, so first of all, yes, the original remit was and the Europeans were okay. They were invested in this, right? That was like, okay, we're all going to put in money and we're going to be on this board and when the war in Gaza is over, it's going to go to rebuild Gaza. Okay. And so people were okay with that, but now Trump has expanded what its remit is going to be, which is. He's not saying this outright, but this is exactly what it is. It is an alternative to the United nations and NATO. Right? It is, it is a new global system on which he will sit on the top. This is, to me, and I mean, if you just watch that press conference, you know how insane and frightening it is, which is why now the Europeans who were originally on this board are backing away from it, while the people who are jumping to be on it are Orban, the King of Morocco, the President of Kazakhstan, or an Orban Thaval. And, and then, of course, he, he said, and then Lukashenko, like, who is a staunch ally of Putin's, and of course, he's extended this offer to Putin. It's like the, it's like the evil US Legion of Doom, the evil NATO.

[Tim Miller]

It's Legion of Doom. Gotta say, I don't know a lot about the government of Kazakhstan, but the rest of those guys aren't great.

[Sarah Longwell]

No, no. And Trump is. He said he will be the chairman. And listen to this. Okay, So I, I, we went, we went deep on this. As chairman, Trump can appoint and remove member states. He has sole veto power over its decisions. The charter specifies that the board's decisions will be made by a majority of the member states present and voting, subject to the approval of the Chairman Trump, who may also cast a vote in his capacity as chairman in the event of a tie. It also reserves for the chairman the exclusive authority to create other entities to carry out the board's mission. So it can create little pods out of this. Right. The charter appears to outline a succession procedure that ensures Trump or a handpicked successor would remain in the position indefinitely. And it says this, this charter has already been written, and I quote, replacement of the chairman may occur only following voluntary resignation or as a result of incapacity.

[Tim Miller]

What fascist model UN nerd wrote this?

[Sarah Longwell]

Have you met Stephen Miller? The chairman's designated successor shall immediately assume the position of the Chairman. Okay, so Trump is going to run this global order like that is the plan. Guys, is the idea that.

[JVL]

I'm sorry, this is all new to me. I'm just processing it.

[Tim Miller]

Live.

[JVL]

That governments whose leaders give the billion dollars, they are then bound by decisions made by the Board of Peace. Is that the idea? Is this like League of Nations? The. Well, you know, if the chairman decides that America has to do X, then the President of America and the American Congress have to do X. And Go along with the chairman of the Board of Peace.

[Sarah Longwell]

Well, that's a good question.

[Tim Miller]

We'll have to ask Lukashenko if that's how he reads it. I gotta tell you, the, the whole board, the whole Board of Peace thing does make me more inclined to JBL's point of view from earlier that it's over. I don't know, it's just like, it's like it was, it was stupid and malicious. I don't want to understate it because it was extremely malicious. Also predictable for those of you who were on the pro Palestinian side of that and decided there was no difference between Trump and Kamala. But it was extremely malicious what he's doing with Gaza and wrong and bad. But it was also kind of like, you know, in the situation, there's already a disaster. It's like Tony Blair, that's going to be fucked up. And it's like it's contained to this small area where they're already dealing with great catastrophe. So as long as within the context of like, you know, the global, like what's happening worldwide and our, and our role in the world, the expansion of the remit of that of the Legion of Doom, I think does give a lot of weight to Mark Carney's comments today about how the rest of the free world is going to have to align around us.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah.

[JVL]

All right, before we get out to the. Because I do want to talk a little bit about St Joshua of the Shapiro's of the Keystone State. But before that, Tim.

[Tim Miller]

I don't think we have any more ads live. We're doing them after. This is how you do things live. We're on the, we're just.

[JVL]

Oh, I believe we have Runaway Country.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, great friends at Runaway Country. That's my girl. Alex Wagner's podcast. I was on it recently. It's great. And if you're looking for another show to check out, I check out Runaway Country. The headlines come fast, but what do they mean for real people's lives? On Crooked Media's new podcast, Runaway country with Alex Wagner, she brings those stories to the surface. Alex talks to people across the political spectrum to uncover how this political chaos is shaping their everyday realities. With voices from the resistance, the heart of maga. And all this cut in between Alex and some of the smartest thinkers in politics break down the barriers between the personal and the political. To ask, how do we take back the reins of a runaway nation? Feels like a relevant question. I look forward to every episode since the show launched. I got the chance to be a guest in the show last week, as I mentioned, and I got to hang out with Alex in New York last week.

[JVL]

It'd be great for Alex to invite me on that show. I love her. She's great. Hi, Alex.

[Tim Miller]

I'll let her know. She's a consumer. She's a Triad reader. Alex Wagner.

[JVL]

Sure.

[Tim Miller]

I'm serious. She's a. She is.

[JVL]

I'm sure, I'm sure.

[Tim Miller]

I'm dead serious. Alex Wagner is a Triad reader. Just like I'm a consumer of Runaway Country. You can listen to it every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts or watch full episodes right here on YouTube.

[JVL]

All right, so it's not on the show map, but I had wanted to ask you guys, and since Sarah brought up about how Governor Shapiro could fix everything.

[Sarah Longwell]

That was just a joke for all of our listeners.

[JVL]

Okay, good, good, good. I just want to ask you guys. So are either of you slightly off put by the sort of ongoing low level Shapiro vs Kamala stuff? It's been driven out now.

[Tim Miller]

I'm a little off put by it. Yeah. I'm just in general, look, I think that everyone has a different role in the world sometimes. I just want to preface it with this, which is that sometimes, you know, people say to me, it's like, Tim, you're criticizing a Democrat for saying something that you say. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm a podcaster, right? Like we're providing news and commentary. And you know, at some level I do think that politicians could benefit from being a little bit looser and being a little bit more like podcasters. But there's a line, right? There's a limit. Like we don't really want politicians to be doing Real Housewives stuff. You know, like that should be the remit of the podcast space. And I think that this isn't really even just about Shapiro. I just think as a general matter, when I look across the kind of democratic world, there's a little too much focus right now happen, happening on fighting factional battles within the party. Like Elizabeth Warren gave some speech about how, how abundance was bad last week. I haven't read Jeffers book. I'm going to. Maybe there's a bunch of other stuff in there, but like the thing that leaked out of it was like this kind of the drama around his vetting, you know, that you're seeing that, you know, kind of across the board. You're seeing a lot of this, which is this sort of internal fighting stuff. And I just. It's January 20, 2026, and we're in a deep crisis in the country, in the world. And I just, I wish that the Democrat. And so you went about new. I got a lot of complaints personally about Newsom, but say what you want about Newsom, he doesn't really seem to be doing this. And I think that folks could learn a little bit strategically like that right now. This is the moment to talk about the things that, that Stephen Miller doing that are bad. Maybe talking positively about things you think Democrats could do differently. That's fine. Like, you know, saying like, oh, I think the party should focus more on this, you know, more on AI reform. I talked to David Plouffe today for the pod, and he gets into some of his ideas. That's cool, but like, doing the sniping, you know, within the party. And like, right now just feels event. There'll be time for that. Plenty of time. I'm cool. I'll be cool with that in 2027, you know, when we're in a primary. But, like, that's not really where we're at. That's my take.

[Sarah Longwell]

And I don't, I, I, this is not strongly held, but I guess I would take the other side of that, that actually there is benefit while being in the wilderness and not having power and not have, being in an actual position to govern, to, like, hash some of this stuff out. Like, I would like the Democrats to be quite unified going into 2028, to have settled on a direction for their party, for there to be leadership that has emerged that people say, yeah, that's what I'm following. And I feel like now is a better time to hash it out than later when it would be better if they could be really focused on all of the excesses of Trump, how terrible he was, the bad direction of the world, and, like, why they would be a better alternative. I'll just say on the Kamala vs Shapiro thing in his book, I did think it was slightly unnecessary. On the other hand, like, she shot on him. Like, there is a, there is a, hey, these are the people who are running in 2028. She used specifically some of the behind the scenes vetting stuff to try to make him look bad, particularly saying he was, like, measuring the drapes. But I thought his thing about her complaining about the bathroom like that was just a low blow. Like, they're petty and unnecessary. And I, I wish he hadn't done it. But, like, I also think part of what is happening is he's like, I'm gonna set the record. Like, she attacked me about this. And I'M gonna explain why I didn't want to be her vice president. And because she is currently still, basically because of name ID alone, and she's making it very clear she's going to run again. Like he wanted to try to stake out some claim.

[Tim Miller]

I want to revise, extend my remarks because, Sarah, that's compelling in part because I do agree now it's time to hash things out. I think the thing that hits me the wrong way a little bit is the emphasis. I guess that's really what I'm talking about. And I think just in Shapiro's specific case, everybody's case is different. I think they would argue that his emphasis has been focused on Pennsylvania stuff and, and he's popular there and he's running for reelection there. And I do think there's something to be said for that. But I just think as a broader. If you're a Democratic politician, if you have a pie of amount of time, of the attention economy and how much attention you're getting on yourself, I kind of want a tiny sliver of that pie to be fighting, doing the factional infighting. And it's kind of like if you're really out there, like making strong cases against Trump and against how things should move forward, then, then I don't think it's going to bug me. You know what I mean? And I'm just speaking about as a consumer, not really even as a strategist, like, if you do some of that and, and, and I think also there's just kind of ways to do it. Right. Like, it is a good time right now, for example, to talk about how Biden fucked up the border. And like, if we're really going to go after these ICE guys and really to go after these massed ICE agents, have a strong politics against them, we should also have a strong, we should also have a clear message to people that if Democrats get back in charge, the border will be closed. Right. I think that's productive. Right. And I think maybe that's the difference between that and like doing a speech where you make fun of the abundance bros. Donors. Or just as one example.

[JVL]

All right, final question for you guys. President of the United States and his Justice Department are maybe kind of sort of just exploring the possibility of prosecuting the governor of Minnesota and the mayor of Minneapolis just didn't seem to have been worth question at the press conference today from our foreign, our friends in the foreign press. But, you know, perhaps not as pressing as some of the things having to do with the Kurds is this A thing that we're all just going to be like, ah, don't worry, it won't go anywhere. It's a clown show. Just like the Jim Comey and the Letitia James.

[Tim Miller]

I'm tempted to say that. So I want to hear you give the counter to that, because that's what I'm tempted to say.

[JVL]

I don't know the answer on that. This is me asking questions. I literally don't know what to. My will to live has been broken, so I don't know what to think.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, I think they're gonna do it, and I think that. But it's sort of like Mark Kelly and Alyssa Slotkin. Like, they are going after Democratic leaders. And I think that. Here's the thing. If I were them, this is when you fight back. Like, you. Everybody should look at what Comey did. Like, I think Frey, particularly has been quite good, and I do think that Democrats. Look, I think people are pretty, like, annoyed at Walls right now because they feel like. They feel a. I think people have a lot of regret over having chosen him as the vice presidential nominee. And two, they feel like what has happened in Minnesota with the fraud has been just, like, a real black eye on, like, they think it's given, you know, Trump a ton of ammunition. And so people don't want to rush to Walls's defense, but, like, they should defend him, and there should be. And Frey and Walsh should both defend themselves. Like, it should be an opportunity to demonstrate. And I think that, you know, like, Mark Kelly and Alyssa Slotkin are doing an excellent job of this. Right. They're basically taking the James Comey attack of, like, come at me, bro. I'm gonna fight you. And they're. They're trying to, like, show that they'll stand up to it and make it clear that Trump is sort of weaponizing the Department of Justice against people. And so we can choose to sit here and say, oh, my God, he's going to do this, or we can live in the reality that we are seeing, which is that Trump is trying to prosecute his enemies and people he thinks are potential leaders in 2028. You know, I mean, Tim Walls was the vice presidential candidate who ran against him last time. Like, that is serious stuff, but, like, they should fight it. And this is part of how, like, you stand up to Trump. They're gonna have to sort of demonstrate that, and Trump's gonna have a tough time getting them on anything.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, My instinct is kind of the thing that you just said kind of mockingly, though, which is Like, I kind of just want to mock them about this until we, until we see it. And, you know, I know there's old JBL line that I repeat a lot, which is, you know, I'm, I'm willing to be the first podcaster that goes to the gulag, but not the second. And so, you know, I will feel bad for the first Democratic politician that goes to the gulag if that, if we ever get to that point. But like, in the meantime, this has been a fucking clown show and they are just getting embarrassed. And like, Trump knows it. That's why he's mad at Bondi. And it's like they want revenge through the justice system and they can't get it. And they're, and they're being embarrassed in court after court, even with some Trump appointed judges. And so they've had a lot of success on the pardon front because they don't need to go through anybody. And he's pardoning a lot of criminals and he's pardoning all the allies and he's corrupted the Justice League system in a lot of ways outside of the revenge element. But, like, the revenge stuff has been super ham handed. And I kind of, I don't know, I just kind of like the way the comey handled it, which was essentially like, come at you, bro. I didn't do anything wrong. Screw you guys. And, and I think that's kind of where we're at right now, though, though there is kind of an element of ominousness to it, obviously.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, I, like, I'm much more concerned about the doj. For example, like, they're trying to go after Renee Good's wife. Right. They're trying to prosecute her. And there were six good on them, six federal prosecutors who resigned over the decision to investigate Renee Goode's wife. And like that. That makes me much more worried about what the DOJ is doing because she is going to have, she's not going to have the resources to fight it or the platform to fight it that Walls and Fry have. Like, they're gonna be, they're gonna be okay. They have First Amendment rights. Like, this is a, this is like a very. I talked about this with Asha Rangapa on the illegal news, which I think will be out tomorrow. And this is just like a very straightforward. They're all public figures. They have First Amendment rights. Like, it, it is funny though, one of the things that, that Trump is doing is try to accuse them of insurrection. They keep referring to this as an insurrection. Like, there's a lot of things that Trump is doing in his prosecutor prosecutorial choices that are like reframes of what he was charged with. Because it is all meant. Right. Because it's all projection. And it's also all about trying to sort of normalize or, or degrade what he did by saying, like, see, they do it too and I can prosecute it. He talked about this in the press conference. Oh, they came after me and weaponized this and this. Like the, when they raided that Washington reporters Post reporter's house, it was over somebody having classified documents that they shouldn't have. Like, it's all projection, every last bit of it tv.

[Tim Miller]

Where are we at in the run now? Because I have one thing I'm worried about. I want to throw into the hopper, but I don't.

[JVL]

We're ready to. I'm ready to close out the show so I can. Something else hit me.

[Sarah Longwell]

No, we talk as long as Trump does.

[Tim Miller]

All right. Yeah. I'm sitting in this uncomfortable chair. My Christmas present still hasn't arrived. Not from you, sir. My husband has promised me a comfy chair. It's January 20th. Anyway, here's what I'm worried about. Not my back. The. I feel like I have been a little bit. What's the right word? I've been a little bit leaning in on Trump's poll numbers getting bad. And I'm reaching a moment where I'm feeling a little jvlish, which is like they haven't gotten bad enough really, and they've kind of leveled out. And, and, and, and I do. And I just don't want to offer people happy talk, you know, because I do think that, that in some ways it's gotten worse. There's that poll that came out showed where. Who do you trust more? The Republicans and the Democrats are in various.

[Sarah Longwell]

The Wall Street Journal poll.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Republicans are doing quite a lot better. It could have just been a one off, but Trump popped up a little bit in one of the polls today. And I don't know, I'm just having a little bit of moment of it doesn't change what I think the right thing to do is for the Democrats, which is to lean in and fight this fight on this stuff. But my confidence that it's a winning battle is waning a little bit. So why don't we close on that notion. I just want to throw that hopper, see what you guys think.

[Sarah Longwell]

Well, this a little bit goes back to when you talk about the attention economy and what can break through to the public. This is where you start to get annoyed about the factional fight. So, for example, right now, the Democrats. I'll give you, like, I think it's, it's fair to argue about the. What is the affirmative platform for Democrats? What should they be running on? How do they build a big tent? Like, those are good factional fights to have to address the direction of the party so that it can win. I, I am very interested in that debate, the debate over whether we should be saying defund ICE or not defund ice. That, that obsesses people. I think that's where you start to get into, are we going to fight about these word choices or are we going to and, you know, tie ourselves around the axle of, like, should we talk about this? No, just talk about the bad things Trump is doing there. Talk about the horrible abuses of ice. Like, you guys have got to communicate with the public about what is happening right now. I agree, obviously, we all want them to be lower, but I also, it's been a little bit across all over the map. Like, there's a new ultimate today that has him at 37%, which is the lowest in that poll. And so he has been dropping just slowly. If we go into a recession, which, by the way, the tariffs that he's announced on Europe and their potential retaliatory tariffs, like, his whole thing that he just did in that speech about how tariffs are making, like, that's all a lie. We all know this. If they do the $2,000 dividend checks, like it's coming, it's just going to, you know, push us further into sort of inflationary places. Like, there's nothing good that can come out of this with the economy or with our foreign policy. And so I just, I wouldn't. Sometimes there's a big lag on things that happen and where, how far public sentiments gets there. We have three years of Trump. But I do think Democrats should take seriously the fact that as bad as Trump is, people still tend to trust Republicans across a wide vector of areas. And that means that they've got to figure out how to start. This is why the factional fight needs to happen sort of fast. And then they need to get out there with strong messaging, like kind of with one voice, stop fighting with each other and start really fighting with Republicans.

[JVL]

I mean, a lot of this stuff really just infantilizes voters, though, right? Like, if it's, if it's, it's up to the Democrats to do this and their messaging has to do that because, you know, you can't, you just can't trust people to open their eyes and understand the reality of the world around. Like, I. I don't know. I mean, this isn't.

[Sarah Longwell]

Average Americans are paying attention to what's going to happen in Davos.

[Tim Miller]

Like, I know what's happening in Minneapolis.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah. And the. And the poll. And, like, all of Trump's numbers have dropped significantly. He was, he was way up. Up on enforcement, not just the border, but on his enforcement a couple of months ago. Now he's way underwater on it. Like, people are reacting.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, they are.

[JVL]

But again, I mean, have they noticed what's. What's going on with NATO and Greenland? I mean, I just, at some point, like, this shit has to sell itself, and if it doesn't, then, like, I'm sorry. Okay, well, I'm sorry.

[Sarah Longwell]

Do you know what the public approval is of invading Greenland? Like, 8% of people are for it. Everyone.

[JVL]

It's low. It's not quite 8%. It's very, very low on using military force.

[Sarah Longwell]

It's 8% on using military force, and that is higher. It's in, like the 30s on purchasing it.

[JVL]

But this is, again, this is like the salient stuff. Like, nobody's gonna. People may not approve of it, but they're not going to lose their minds if he does it. I think Tim is right about this. Like, nobody in America is gonna, like, well, you know, I was. I was full MAGA until he. He, you know, said that he had annexed Nook. And then I just realized that I can't do that.

[Tim Miller]

I JBL'd us on this podcast. I'm sorry. I. JVL us. We. Can you guys keep fighting with us on Friday? I. Jvl, can you leave us on an actual happy note? I'm coaching my first basketball game tonight. Do you have any for me as a coach?

[JVL]

Yes. Yes. You ready?

[Tim Miller]

I'm ready.

[JVL]

One, two, two. Full court pressure.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, we're not allowed to do that.

[JVL]

Oh, okay.

[Tim Miller]

Not to do that yet.

[JVL]

1, 3, 1, matchup zone on defense. So are you doing the. Are you in a league where they do the little colored wristbands?

[Tim Miller]

No, we're for. It's mandatory zone. This is new. This is actually not really. Not my first game of coach. I coached my little brother's basketball team when I was like, 18 and he was 7 or whatever, you know, before I went to college 100 years ago. But. And so back then, that's what they did. Colored wristbands. But what we do now is this league and my. One of my friends who's in a different state says, it's the same. It's mandatory zone, just two, three level. Yeah. 212. Yeah. I'm putting the person in the one in the middle. I'm making them the honey badger and telling them just to go trap everybody. That's my plan for tonight. We'll see how it goes.

[JVL]

Okay, Fantastic.

[Tim Miller]

I. I love to hear women's basketball.

[JVL]

What is the. Can I just ask you because we, I mean, we had a long slack conversation about sports betting and I am against sports betting, but I would be interested in what the over under line on total points scored in this game is. Do you think the over under will be like 14?

[Tim Miller]

Is that what the line gets set 20 minute game? So I think, yeah, I think 14. And I take the over because we're gonna run and gun. Okay, we'll report back next week.

[JVL]

All right, guys. Sarah, go ahead, say it.

[Sarah Longwell]

I just wanted to tell you, you know, what I haven't talked to you guys about is that I like football now. And I'm a football watcher. And I watched the Chicago Bears game and it was. I was rooting for the Bears. I got. I've gotten very invested in the Bears this time around. I mean, I'm a commander's fan, but they sucked. Everybody got hurt, and I learned all the rules and I now watch all the games and I'm now nobody's in that I like anymore. I mean, I guess I'm rooting for Denver, but whatever. Seahawks are going to kill everybody. But anyway, I just wanted you to know because I hadn't told you yet how invested I am in American football.

[Tim Miller]

Congrats. Welcome. Great. Thank you for texting about it.

[Sarah Longwell]

Great.

[JVL]

Yay. Good show. Interminably long show. We're never doing that again. See you guys next week. Sarah, I'll see you on Friday. Good luck, America.

[Sarah Longwell]

Bye.