1057: Trump Wants to Be King of the World (Live from Minneapolis)

Summary

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The Next Level Ep. 1057: "Trump Wants to Be King of the World" (Live from Minneapolis)

Date: February 21, 2026
Hosts: Sarah Longwell, Tim Miller, Jonathan V. Last (JVL), with guests Bill Kristol and Sam Stein

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Overview

This live episode of The Next Level brings together Sarah Longwell, Tim Miller, JVL, Sam Stein, and Bill Kristol for a spirited and frequently hilarious discussion of post-2024 politics, Donald Trump’s latest international escapades, the state of American democracy, and Democratic party prospects. The hosts, known for their sharp analysis and signature banter, tackle the absurdities of the week’s news, focusing on Trump’s "Board of Peace," looming threats of war, the collapse of rule of law, and the prospects for 2028.

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Key Themes & Segments

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1. Trump’s "Board of Peace" and the Quest for Global Power

[03:05–09:19]

• The "Donald J. Trump Board of Peace":
  Sarah introduces the surreal spectacle of Trump founding a so-called Board of Peace, a murky international body into which the US has allegedly funneled $10 billion. No one can say who actually runs it or where the money truly goes.
• Financial Shenanigans:
  Sarah jokes about JP Morgan wanting to be the "private banker for this august institution," lampooning the incredible lack of transparency and accountability.
• Dictator’s Club:
  The board is stacked with non-democracies and dictatorships. Tim Miller likens it to a "Sopranos"-style protection racket: "This is like a gang thing. This is like a Sopranos type situation..." [08:03]
• JVL's Theory:
  JVL pushes the pod’s main thesis: "I think he wants to be king of the world. And I think that the Board of Peace is the way that he takes billions of dollars out of America..." [06:25]
• Concerns About Governance:
  There’s dark laughter as the hosts reflect on the Board’s rules: "Do you know how do you remove the head of the Board of Peace?" Tim asks. "They die." [07:17]

Notable Quote:

"He wants to be king of the world. And I think that the Board of Peace is the way that he takes billions of dollars out of America, puts it in this Board... and he's over there running the entire globe with a bunch of dictators, with all of our taxpayer dollars."
— JVL [06:25]

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2. Foreign Policy Dangers: The Iran Threat

[09:51–14:36]

• Trump’s Warmongering:
  Trump, while presiding supposedly over "peace," threatens war with Iran, promising "bad things will happen" if they don’t strike a nuclear deal. Sam Stein wryly observes, "He did fall asleep at the Board of Peace, so..." [09:39]
• Youthful Voters Duped:
  Tim highlights the contradiction: Trump positioned himself as the peace candidate, appealing especially to young men who didn’t want to be drafted, but now "all of the ships are currently going to Iran" [11:51].
• Democratic Passivity:
  There’s palpable frustration that Democrats aren’t sounding the alarm. Tim: "I feel like the Democrats should be a little bit more hair on fire about this... No war with Iran run by a former drunk weekend talk show co host. No. It’s a no." [13:08]

Notable Quote:

"No war with Iran run by a former drunk weekend talk show co-host. No. It’s a no."
— Tim Miller [13:08]

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3. Rule of Law vs. Corruption: Epstein Files & U.S. Justice

[22:07–31:25]

• International Accountability vs. U.S. Impunity:
  The team discusses Prince Andrew's arrest in Europe following the Epstein files' release and contrasts that with total American inaction. Sarah: "It seems like the rule of law can function in Latvia, but not in America. Is anybody else concerned about this?" [22:31]
• Epstein & the Trump Administration:
  JVL: "The only person who's really suffered professional consequences is like that lady lawyer who was then at Goldman Sachs... the rest of them are literally in the Trump administration..." [24:15]
• The Collapse of Accountability:
  Tim goes full alarm: "Our country's legal system is indistinguishable from an authoritarian third world banana republic... the rule of law in our country is indistinguishable from like a Gaddafi, Libya style rule of law." [27:16, 28:13]
• Selective Justice:
  With chilling examples, the crew illustrates how those close to power (or on the Epstein list) enjoy impunity, while ordinary Americans bear the brunt of a warped system (e.g., ICE detentions).

Notable Quote:

"The rule of law in our country is indistinguishable from like a Gaddafi, Libya style rule of law. Like, we're not even fucking close to Latvia. Latvia is running circles around us."
— Tim Miller [28:13]

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4. Why Aren’t Americans More Outraged?

[31:09–35:21]

• Historical Context:
  Sarah contrasts the U.S. with other democracies that have imprisoned coup leaders, while America has "made the motherfucker president again." [31:54]
• Overwhelm & Denial:
  JVL and Tim theorize that both political and public lack of urgency stem from being overwhelmed, failure of imagination, or cowardice. JVL: "Our political class seems unable to... It's not 10 things. It's one thing. Every one of these stories is a story you could tell quickly: they are scamming you." [33:44]
• Need for Outrage:
  The team laments Democratic timidity and lack of fire, noting that righteous anger—not just policy plans—should animate opposition.

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5. Democratic Bench: The Tim Walz Debrief and 2028 Speculation

[40:47–56:21]

• Tim Walz’s Performance:
  The hosts reflect on their dinner with Gov. Walz, Harris’ VP pick, noting he was "much larger and spryer than I thought." [41:25] Ultimately, the consensus is that while Walz is a good and empathetic man, he may be too nice and not ruthless enough for this political moment: "We need people... with an edge of ruthlessness... the ability to go fight really hard." [48:19]
• 2028 Democratic Field:
  They riff on a new New Hampshire poll:
  • Mayor Pete: 20%
  • AOC: 15%
  • Gavin Newsom: 10%
  • Kamala Harris: 10%
  • Mark Kelly: 10%
  • Others: below 5% [53:15] Discussion notes the public appetite for candidates who “fight back” and authentically "talk like themselves" on social media.

Notable Quotes:

"Fight them, kick them in the balls, spit on them, tell them that they're losers. That's what the people want and that's what the moment requires."
— Tim Miller [54:38]

"We need people... with an edge of ruthlessness... the ability to go fight really hard and understand you have to see your enemy clearly."
— JVL [48:19]

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6. The Case for AOC – And Cautions

[58:44–60:56]

• AOC’s Appeal:
  Sarah and others acknowledge AOC’s popularity in the poll and her excitement factor: "She belongs to the actual present and not the past."
• Potential Pitfalls:
  Tim cautions that AOC’s “peak woke” online history could haunt her: "My one AOC thing is she was very online during peak woke. If I put together a sizzle reel of the weirdest shit she said about Latinx in 2019, people would look at that and be like, woof..." [60:18]
• Brand Separation:
  Tim highlights that AOC (and Pete Buttigieg) succeed at least in "talking like themselves" on social media, not through sanitized, consultant-managed accounts.

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• JVL’s Grand Theory:
  "He wants to be king of the world..." [06:25]
• The Board of Peace’s Dictator Roster:
  Sarah: “El Salvador, Hungary, Indonesia, Israel, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Albania, Belarus, Egypt, Vietnam. I don’t think any of those are democracies. Israel is it, though?” Tim: “Vietnam A little. Is it?... We’re not doing the democracy thing anymore, though. That’s not the deal.” [08:15]
• On U.S. Justice:
  "If you're a friend of the president... you don't get prosecuted... If you're just a rich guy doing a crypto scam, you don't get prosecuted anymore... It's a pardon palooza in there."
  — Tim Miller [27:16, 28:13]
• Rule of Law Dystopia:
  “It is like a Gaddafi, Libya style rule of law.” — Tim Miller [28:13]
• On Democratic Timidity:
  "We need people... with an edge of ruthlessness... the ability to go fight really hard..." — JVL [48:19]
• 2028 Field Social Media Advice:
  "If you’re going to run for president in 2028, your social media feed should not be run by a bisexual with long Covid. I'm sorry." — Tim Miller [56:21]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Trump Board of Peace Introduction | 03:05–09:19 | | Iran & War Threats, Dems inaction | 09:51–14:36 | | Rule of Law/Epstein/Corruption | 22:07–31:25 | | Why No Outrage? Comparisons with other democracies | 31:09–35:21 | | Tim Walz Debrief & Dems' Need for Fighters | 40:47–48:19 | | 2028 Dem Field poll & AOC/Buttigieg Analysis | 53:01–60:56 |

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Summary for New Listeners

Essentially, this episode deploys sharp, often dark humor (“Just blowing shit up... America, fuck yeah!” [19:48]) to skewer the Trumpified political landscape and despair over the normalization of corruption, autocracy, and Democratic passivity. The “Board of Peace” becomes a running metaphor for the empty, leaderless, money-soaked international order under Trump, and the co-hosts paint a bleak picture of accountability and justice in the United States.

Even as despair flashes through, the episode remains raucously entertaining, with frequent digressions, friendly jabs, and punchy, meme-ready lines. Through it all is a call—for Democrats to find both their voice and their anger, and for voters to demand more than performative “niceness” or endless focus group-tested caution from would-be leaders.

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For more episodes and full transcripts, visit thebulwark.com.

Transcript

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[Bill Kristol]

the Tim Miller Sarah Longwell ticket or

[Tim Miller]

you have not seen my Grinder archive

[Bill Kristol]

or the Sarah well look, if Trump can't be worse than Trump, am I not Sarah Longwell or the Sarah Longwell Tim Miller ticket? I'M a little undecided.

[Sarah Longwell]

Hello, everyone. I'm jvl here with my best friends Sarah Longwell and Tim Miller.

[Tim Miller]

So good to be here with you. Jbl.

[Sarah Longwell]

My very good acquaintance, Sam Stein.

[Sam Stein]

I'm not hurt. I'm not. I really am fine.

[Tim Miller]

Very good friend is an upgrade for you. I know he's not. Quaint colleague.

[Sarah Longwell]

It's the long joke. I'm, you know, by 2029 it's gonna

[Tim Miller]

be like, yeah, you'll be in the cell together.

[Sarah Longwell]

And my cellmate, Sam Stein. A lot of things happen in prison, cuz. So very big day for America. Very big day for the world. The Donald J. Trump Board of Peace met.

[Tim Miller]

Bullshit.

[Sarah Longwell]

They met at the Donald J. Trump Institute for Peace.

[JVL]

Do you hate peace?

[Sarah Longwell]

Which is down the road from the Donald J. Trump and kind of John F. Kennedy center for the Arts

[Tim Miller]

and the Donald J. Trump Department of Justice, which we got.

[Sarah Longwell]

And hold on to that. Let's save that for later. So there's actually quite a bit of news from, from this thing. I don't know how many of you saw it. We had, evidently the United states is giving $10 billion to this. $10 billion to this thing. Who runs this thing, you may ask? Who can say? The 28 members who were there each contributed $1 billion. Where does this money go to? Who can say? We do know that JP Morgan has told the chairman of the board, God, you know, he's always wanted to fucking call himself the chairman of the board, that they would like to be the private banker for this august institution. And the entire thing was like watching one of those Friars Club roasts where Trump was just standing there cooking the whole time. He's like, you know, and they did me dirty in Norway. And you know, I like that guy from Paraguay over there. He's, he's handsome, you know, he's very good looking. People like him because he's good. Like, not me. I like good looking women. These are real things that all.

[JVL]

Can he say no homo.

[Sarah Longwell]

Nobody asked him about Arnold. Arnold Palmer. I just.

[Tim Miller]

Huge schlong. Arnold Palmer.

[Sam Stein]

I forgot about that.

[Tim Miller]

Arnold Palmer.

[Sarah Longwell]

So among the things which happened at the first inaugural meeting of the Board of Peace was that Donald Trump threatened war and he said that bad things will happen, his words, not mine, if Iran doesn't make a deal with him about their nuclear program, which I was very confused about because I had been informed that it was completely obliterated. Evidently not. And I guess my question to this August panel is what the fuck is happening?

[Tim Miller]

I can, I know yeah, Please tell us. I do. I like your theory about this. So please.

[JVL]

I think my theory is right, which is I think that JBL is wrong that Donald Trump wants to stay President of the United States.

[Sponsor Announcer 1]

Woo.

[JVL]

I think. I think instead.

[Tim Miller]

Hold on.

[Sam Stein]

I'm sorry.

[Sarah Longwell]

Clap if you think I'm wrong about this. 15 people agree with you.

[JVL]

They haven't heard my alternative theory yet. So let me tell you. I don't think he wants to stay President of the United States. I think he wants to be king of the world. And I think that the Board of Peace is the way that he takes billions of dollars out of America right now, our tax dollars, puts it in this Board of Peace, then takes money from all of his dictator friends in the Board of Peace, by which he hopes JD Vance and Marco Rubio are the next administration, and he's over there running the entire globe with a. With a bunch of dictators, with all of our taxpayer dollars.

[Sarah Longwell]

Timothy.

[Tim Miller]

It's kind of like a promotion. You know, you sort of send them off to be, you know, kind of an honorary title.

[JVL]

Do you know how do you remove the head of the Board of Peace?

[Tim Miller]

I don't.

[JVL]

They die.

[Tim Miller]

Is that true? It's a lifetime. It's true.

[JVL]

They either have to step down voluntarily or die.

[Tim Miller]

I'm interested. I'm interested in that ending.

[Bill Kristol]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

I don't know. Like the whole, you know, kind of Dr. Evil collaboration part of it is kind of really what I'm locked in on. I'm intrigued by your theory. I like it. I hope that that's his exit policy. It's better than the alternative plans. Bloodshed at the Capitol or naming himself vice president.

[JVL]

That sounds bad to me. I haven't heard a good option in

[Tim Miller]

here yet, but giving him the Board of Peace. Well, I think that. What would the Board of Peace do if he left in and did that? I mean, it's him. It's Belarus. It was. Becky. Becky.

[Sarah Longwell]

Becky.

[Tim Miller]

Stan Cutter is there.

[Sarah Longwell]

Would you like me to read some of the. Just a select list of members of the Board of.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Is Uzbekistan on there? Because I'm pretty sure they are. I was Googling them.

[Sarah Longwell]

El Salvador, Hungary, Indonesia, Israel, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Albania, Belarus, Egypt, Vietnam. I don't think any of those are democracies. Israel is it, though?

[Tim Miller]

Vietnam A little.

[Sarah Longwell]

Is it?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. We're not doing the democracy thing anymore, though. Like, that's not the deal. And I'm less. A little less concerned about their system of government than the fact that most of the Board of Peace board members are murderous dictators. So that's kind of a problem for me. And so I don't really know exactly how that's going to yield. I guess the idea is it's like a gang thing. This is like a Sopranos type situation where if North Jersey gets so strong, then New York will be scared to kill people because North Jersey will come for them. And I guess that's how they're gonna bring peace, right? They're going to scare the Canadians. Cause it's like, you don't want to be on the wrong side of Belarus and Qatar and Saudi Arabia and Bibi.

[Sam Stein]

So I'm just trying to wrap my head around this. The two options we have here are Trump just retains power forever or he becomes king of the world. Just want to make sure I have this right.

[JVL]

See, I promised them we were going to have fun.

[Tim Miller]

Well, we could beat him.

[Sam Stein]

This is hilarious.

[Tim Miller]

Another option would be beating them.

[Sam Stein]

He did fall asleep. He did fall asleep at the Board of Peace, so.

[JVL]

Well, peace is boring to him.

[Bill Kristol]

But he was bored.

[Sam Stein]

He was bored and bored of peace.

[Tim Miller]

Isn't.

[Sam Stein]

Isn't an option here that he just. And I can't believe this is the least bad option, but he just takes the money and that's it, right?

[Tim Miller]

I mean, you have.

[JVL]

Well, I don't know if you heard this, but Jared Kushner did get up there and say no individual is receiving the money. And when I heard that, I thought, well, I feel better now because it's

[Tim Miller]

going to be an S corp.

[Sam Stein]

It's going to be invested in the Trump crypto currency.

[Tim Miller]

I don't know. I mean, I guess not the worst outcome. I mean, it's not great. So don't tell anybody that I'm for this. Okay? But instead of king of the World, maybe instead it's just more like, you know, he's sort of the chairman of the board of the, you know, Gaza Resort and Casino Beach Club, and maybe also the Nuke Resort Casino and Rare Earth mineral.

[Sarah Longwell]

There is a military base coming to Gaza. What could possibly go wrong? I have a question. Could you convene a focus group of Dearborn Biden to Trump voters? For me, it's actually a really good idea.

[JVL]

This is just what they wanted. They wanted to invade Greenland.

[Sarah Longwell]

Could you ask them how they're feeling about their life choices? Is that a thing we could do?

[Tim Miller]

Wait a minute.

[Sarah Longwell]

Or could I conduct the focus group?

[JVL]

Don't encourage him. I will say if it is not, it's not great news. But we do ask people how they're feeling about how things are going in the country and people are not happy about it.

[Sarah Longwell]

I'm specifically talking about Dearborn Biden to Trump voters.

[JVL]

You're really locked in on Dearborn lately.

[Tim Miller]

Let me ask.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Do we know who's going to be stationed at the military base in Gaza? Are we sending American troops there? Unclear. It does feel like we've lost the focus of America First.

[Sarah Longwell]

It can be next to the Sandals Resort.

[Tim Miller]

Okay. Yeah, I just, I don't know how many people, like, in addition to the Dearborn people, you know, like another group that maybe might have some questions is that there was a lot of young white men that were like listening to the Andrew Schultz podcast who are told that they were going to be for Donald Trump because he's the peace president and they didn't want to get drafted, they didn't want to go to war. And Kamala Harris and Tim Walls were bloodthirsty warmongers. And so they were going to ride with Trump because they just, you know, we sent too many people to the Middle east before. And so it seems concerning that all of the ships are currently going to Iran and that we are opening up a new military installation in Gaza.

[Sarah Longwell]

This is the president, as I said, he said bad things will happen in Iran if they don't make a deal. And he said, you're going to be finding out over the next probably 10 days.

[Tim Miller]

So

[Sarah Longwell]

the peace president

[Sam Stein]

usually, usually he does two weeks. Right? Like that's his thing. This is, this is deadly serious. He's cutting four days off.

[Tim Miller]

I was talking to Tina Smith about this yesterday. Shout out to the people who came to both shows, the real heads. And I was, I feel like the Democrats should be a little bit more hair on fire about this. I don't understand why as a former neocon who believes deeply in the freedom of the Iranian people, why, like, I am more incensed about the Iran war than it seems than the Democratic leadership right now. Like, it feels like a very easy message. No war with Iran run by a former drunk weekend talk show co host. No. It's a no. Like, maybe the Iranian people deserve freedom. Maybe the Mossad is really good and we'll be able to figure it out and everything will turn up roses. I think that's very unlikely. That doesn't seem like the likely outcome. That's an aspirational thing. But in the current state setup we have where we have no legal ability to go to war, we have a reality show host as the president who is running kind of a evil tribe of villains. And we have a drunk talk show host running the military. This seems completely ill advised. It seems bad and I don't think anyone's for it. I don't even think most of the Trump voters are for it. It has to be like an 8515 issue. And I just. You could fit it on a red hat. No war with Iran with a weekend talk show co host running. So it could be in the small print.

[Sam Stein]

I can, I, I don't disagree with any of that. I just, I want to like, fact check one little element.

[Tim Miller]

What?

[Sam Stein]

I don't know if you've been following Hegseth on social media. He's not doing anything other than like push ups. Like, he had a. He had one picture two days ago with Dr. Oz at Dr. Oz's resort. Did you not see this? They're eating a lot of hummus and doing pull ups off of a coconut tree or something like that. Like, he's not. He is clearly not.

[Tim Miller]

So who's running the war? I don't know. It's not him though. That's.

[Sam Stein]

Which is good. I think that's like a positive step. Let him do his Instagram stuff.

[Sponsor Announcer 1]

I don't care.

[JVL]

But we should take this in for a second. We might be going to war with Iran.

[Tim Miller]

We.

[JVL]

We threatened the war with Greenland. And I gotta say, I said this last night. I didn't do it in my intro this time. So I'm gonna use right now to say it the shit you guys have been doing here. I think you need a political party that is 1/10 as strong as what you guys have been doing here. Like, you deserve backup. And the fact that we might be going to war. And God bless Tina Smith. She was lovely. She was so smart. She was very nice. And she said she's a hard no on it. And that's good. But it feels like maybe some, like, proactive things could be good there. Like maybe running around saying, hey, you can't go to war without Congress because that's our job. It's what we do. You, your political leaders do not deserve you right now.

[Tim Miller]

And honestly, it's like, look, we had a busy day today. I'm sure there are a couple other people that had good stuff statements, but like, Ro Khanna. It's like Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie again. It's like, doesn't anybody else work on Capitol Hill? Like, it's like, once again they're like, we should vote on this. No war with Iran. It's a pretty simple message. And I think that there's, like, huge swaths of the country that are, like, watching curling and unaware that we.

[JVL]

Like, curling's been good.

[Tim Miller]

Has it? I mean, I was at Mardi Gras.

[JVL]

Did you watch the USA women's hockey team today?

[Tim Miller]

Is that a big lesbian thing?

[JVL]

Those gals got engaged, actually.

[Tim Miller]

Really? On the ice. Kind of like a heated rivalry lesbian thing.

[JVL]

I think he did. Rivalry.

[Tim Miller]

Did that happen? Did that really happen?

[JVL]

We rocks walked so that the U.S. canadian or the U.S. team could run.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

Wasn't that, like, some weird breakup? Something about some breakup between hockey players. Did you not see this?

[JVL]

The lesbians are getting married.

[Sam Stein]

I was.

[Tim Miller]

What's the women's hockey team called here?

[JVL]

Frost.

[Tim Miller]

The Frost. There's a couple Frost players. Did we get any goals today? We're doing it. No, we didn't do it. Okay. Well, it was a win anyway. But a lot of people are watching that, and I really don't think people know that we might be going to war with. I don't think a lot of people know. And what is the rationale? Like, I don't. Could anybody even explain why we are going to war?

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, Bibi wants to

[Tim Miller]

the abc. But what is their. Okay, thank you. I'm sorry. That was a bad rhetorical question. I meant what is their stated rationale? Like, what is. Like if you took the smartest person in the White House.

[Sam Stein]

The rationale is

[Tim Miller]

we'll try to find one if we got Ragin raging Cain out there. The rationale.

[Sam Stein]

But JVL is right. The rationale is they need to contain their nuclear program. But they also have rationalized that they eliminated the nuclear program.

[Tim Miller]

Nuclear program.

[Sam Stein]

So it doesn't quite make sense. Can I be contrarian?

[Tim Miller]

You're for it. No, I'm not for it.

[Sam Stein]

I'm not for it.

[JVL]

Okay.

[Tim Miller]

All right, hold on. Really quick. Bring out Bill Crystal.

[Sam Stein]

No, I'm not for it.

[Tim Miller]

He's coming out late.

[Sam Stein]

But just. Just to spice things up a little bit. Thank you. I appreciate that.

[JVL]

Spicy.

[Tim Miller]

Take off your shirt.

[JVL]

That's what we're gonna call you from said.

[Sam Stein]

Spice it.

[Tim Miller]

Take off your shirt. No, I'm not going through. No.

[Sarah Longwell]

Got to pay extra for that.

[Sam Stein]

Isn't there. Aren't there, like, 10 other better issues for Democrats to run on in this? Not saying they shouldn't oppose.

[Tim Miller]

I don't think so.

[Sam Stein]

You don't think so? I think so.

[Tim Miller]

Well, like, what would be the 10? Let's list them.

[Bill Kristol]

All right.

[Sarah Longwell]

Well, because we do have to keep moving along. How about the Epstein files?

[Sam Stein]

Yes.

[Sarah Longwell]

One.

[Tim Miller]

Well, I feel like that's pretty saturated. I don't know. A lot of people are paying attention to the Epstein files. Cover up already. I'm pretty sure it was pretty central to the Donald Trump appeal. You're doing the focus groups that he was not gonna do the dumb wars like all the other president. People don't like the wars. People don't like them.

[Sarah Longwell]

No, I disagree.

[Tim Miller]

Well, that's because you're a rock apologist. But we're not gonna do that live on stage.

[Sarah Longwell]

No, no, no, no. What I think is he disagrees about the people. No, my view. Sarah and I have talked about this. The people who say, like, oh, I don't want wars. They do want to see America blowing shit up. And so. So long as nobody's putting down boots on the ground and just blowing shit up.

[Tim Miller]

And it's like, America, fuck.

[Sponsor Announcer 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

You know, Trump's kind of like that too, right? Every action he's taken has been quick and he doesn't ever commit after that. And I think he understands that. I do, honestly. Sorry. I think that's true. I don't think.

[Tim Miller]

I don't.

[Sam Stein]

I'm not for the war in Iran,

[Tim Miller]

but I think that's whatever. Call me the fucking tree hugging peace Nick hippie here, okay? The former Bush staffer. But I don't think that the people want the wars. I don't think that they do. And I think that it's hurting them. And I think the Democrats should yell about it. There's no. What is the cost? What's the worst case scenario? The Democrats go, no, war with Iran. And then the war with Iran turns out great. And, you know, people are walking through the streets of Tehran and everything, and it's a new tourist destination for middle Americans the world over. Like, there's. What is the Trump Telegram? There is no risk. Nobody wants this.

[Sarah Longwell]

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[Tim Miller]

Hell, yeah.

[JVL]

Why are you cheering? He's not even in America.

[Sarah Longwell]

Hold on.

[JVL]

Nobody here has been arrested, do they.

[Tim Miller]

Are they putting him in the Tower of England? What's the. Are they. I want it to be like medieval shit. I want them to like Latvia.

[JVL]

Little tarn for defenestration is the punishment.

[Tim Miller]

I want them down in the bowels, like the shame.

[Sarah Longwell]

Shame. All right, let me just read you some other. Some other headlines. Latvia launches human trafficking investigation after Epstein file release. Paris prosecutors open to Epstein were linked probes and call on victims to come forward. Norway's former prime minister charged with gross corruption over Epstein links Pam Bondi. We did not uncover evidence that could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties. It seems like the rule of law can function in Latvia, but not in America. Is anybody else concerned about this?

[JVL]

Yeah, jbl, we're all concerned, man. Nobody's sanguine about what's happening right now. The Epstein file thing, I gotta say, it is. I am. It is good that Prince Andrew was arrested also. I don't know if you saw what he was accused of. Like, what the actual shit is. It is dark. Like some of the darkest stuff that has come out of this. In fact, spare yourselves. But the fact that they are pursuing accountability there is good, because it does start to put more pressure on us to say, why are we the only country where there's no fallout from this? In fact, the only person who's really suffered professional consequences is like that lady lawyer who was then at Goldman Sachs.

[Tim Miller]

And dessert. Put her in the Tower of London too, by the way.

[Sarah Longwell]

That's horrible. Human being.

[JVL]

But the rest of them are literally in the Trump administration where there's only two kinds of people. People who are in the Epstein files and people who are covering up the Epstein files.

[Tim Miller]

I think.

[Sam Stein]

No, you go, I. I just like, I.

[Bill Kristol]

It.

[Sam Stein]

It's not that we're not even Legally holding these people accountable. Like, there's not even political consequences for like Howard Nutlet. Howard. I can't actually get a Howard Lutton. I don't do that. But how you've trained me. I mean, he.

[Tim Miller]

You gotta break it out on Morning Joe.

[Sam Stein]

I will not.

[Tim Miller]

The people are desperate for you to break out nut lick on Morning Joe.

[Sam Stein]

It might actually happen. But I mean, this is, this is so clear cut. Like, he blatantly lied in this kind of like quasi emotional interview he gave to the New York Post podcast. In any other time, that would be obvious cause for dismissal. I mean, how could you trust this man if he's gonna lie about that? And yet he's perfectly content in staying at the Commerce Secretary. I'm not asking for prosecution at this point. I just want him to suffer a political consequence. And we don't even have that now. The reason we don't have political consequence, legal consequences, is related to a story we're gonna talk about down the road, which is this Justice Department is not an independent justice. It's not real. Thank you. It's not real.

[Sarah Longwell]

It has, in fact, a banner with the visage of the President of the United States hanging from it.

[Bill Kristol]

Right?

[Sam Stein]

Like, are they going to prosecute Howard Lutnick?

[JVL]

No, but of course not. But there's a reason. There's a reason they can't prosecute anyone here. It's because Donald Trump did all the same things, right? Like, what if have Howard Lutnick's sin, and of course it is, is to claim that he had a hero's journey, right. I saw what a bad guy he was and I stayed way away from him. Oh, no, actually you started a business with him. Like you went into business with him after it. Like, the lie is so grotesque. But Donald Trump, who also is just walking around right now, I don't know if you've seen interviews with him, he just keeps saying, well, I can talk about this because I was exonerated, very exonerated, strongly exonerated on this. But if lying about your relationship with Epstein has political consequences for Lutnick, then it will have. Then it would have to have political consequences for Cash, who's covering it up for Bondi, for Trump. There's just too many, like, they can't do it. The safest place to be right now to avoid prosecution for the Epstein files is in this administration.

[Tim Miller]

I'm going to do the JBL thing right now. That's actually way worse than all you guys are saying because, like, the contrast between us and Latvia Is not just like an interesting parlor game, right? Where it's like, oh, on this one story, you know, on this Epstein story, you know, there's more accountability for bad actors in Latvia than there is in America. And that shows that they've got a stronger rule of law there. Like, that's true, but like, we actually don't have a rule of law in the country anymore. I mean, you start to sound like a hysterical TDS riddled, like insane person.

[JVL]

You wouldn't know anything about.

[Tim Miller]

When you say the truth being called hysterical, you get called hysterical a lot because you're a woman, you mean? Is that what you were saying?

[JVL]

No, I mean, we all get told we had teenagers TDS all the time. Even though we were right about everything.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, we are. It's tough to be right about everything. But like, you have no idea. But like, you have to sound hysterical just to say the truth, which is that we are living in like our country's legal system is indistinguishable from an authoritarian third world banana republic. Like, it's not just the Epstein thing. If you're a friend of the president or a supporter of the president or you are an aspirational supporter of the president, like, you don't get prosecuted, by the way, if you're just like in the Epstein class, if you're just a rich guy who is doing a crypto scam or an investment scam, you don't get prosecuted anymore. If you're doing public corruption anywhere in the country, we don't have a public corruption department.

[Sarah Longwell]

If you murder American citizens on the streets of Minneapolis, you don't get prosecute it.

[Tim Miller]

They cover it up. We don't even know where the guys are that executed Alex Freddie. And if you did get prosecuted by a past administration and you bribed this administration, then you get a pardon. Even if you're a violent criminal or a scam artist. Like, we like our. The rule of law in our country is indistinguishable from like a Gaddafi, Libya style rule of law. Like, we're not even fucking close to Latvia. Latvia is running circles around us. Like, they're doing more real justice in Turkey. So like, that is like the state of affairs of where we are right now today. People are like, well, he's an aspiring authoritarian. It's like, no, he's like, when it comes to at least the rule of law, he's an authoritarian. Right now, the one thing that he can't do, which is nice, the only positive is he hasn't figured out how to Jail people he doesn't like yet. So people he does like can get off. And people that are even kind of in the ballpark of their, you know, of their, you know, kind of friend group or class, they don't have to worry about it. They can crime all they want now. And all he can do is try to arrest people like Don Lemon can go to jail for like 12 hours, but like he, they haven't figured out successfully how to put people in jail yet. And that's basically the difference between us and what, whatever, China, I don't know.

[JVL]

They have figured out how to use 5 year olds as bait coming out of school.

[Tim Miller]

Sure.

[JVL]

And that is actually, I think when you think about the total picture and this is when I start to get so upset about the lack of reaction from the rest of the political class. Like the fact that they don't wake up every day and say I want to be on TV for 12 hours just screaming and yelling about what's happening here to make sure that no American can't speak. See clearly the picture. If you've lived in this country for 20 years legally and you're going to go to a green card appointment, they'll arrest you for that. But if you're in the Epstein files or you lied about it, you're good. And so it's not, it's not just all the things that aren't happening. It's also the contrast with what is happening.

[Tim Miller]

And think about Whipple, I think about the detentions. Think about George Raddus, right? It's like you can be detained in Minneapolis if one fucking ice goon thinks you're getting a little too mouthy. Like you can get brought to Whipple and kept there overnight, right? But you know, someone that is committing a scam on the, you know, on, on whatever, hundreds, thousands of people, like they're just making donations to Trump and getting full pardons. And it's like it's a pardon palooza in there. So like actual criminals that fuck people over are getting off scot free while people that are just trying to help their neighbors are going to, are being detained. Like that's just like this. Just the basic facts of what's happening.

[Sam Stein]

Sarah. It just made me think about this. But like why do you think people aren't having their hair on fire like us? I mean, it's not that. This is not like a frog, boiling water stuff. It's happening fast and real and it's in our face every moment.

[Sarah Longwell]

Let me, I'm sorry, let me, I want to Sure. I want to frame that question because I want you guys to answer it. In the last four years, four advanced democracies in the force, three advanced democracies in the world had attempted coups. Today. Yoon Suk Yeol, who attempted a coup in South Korea, big fan of him.

[Tim Miller]

Is that a couple big Yoons? Are you fans out there? What's up?

[Sam Stein]

There's more applause for Prince Andrew's arrest.

[Sarah Longwell]

To be honest, he was sentenced to life in prison. Javier Bolsarno in prison. In America, we made the motherfucker president again. I mean, again, like other countries can do this and America couldn't. Why?

[JVL]

You're actually asking slightly, two slightly different questions and I'm going to answer his because it's more.

[Sarah Longwell]

Say that Americans are terrible.

[JVL]

I won't. I will. I will say that obviously it was

[Sarah Longwell]

a terrible decision made by terrible people.

[JVL]

Yeah, well, I mean, do you really want to do this right now on stage? Like, okay, well, it was a terrible decision for an 82 year old to run for president again when the authoritarian was the other alternative. Like, you know, a lot of bad decisions have been made that led us to this point. The question though, right now, which is this is happening. We can all see it. You guys are living through it every day. And the fact that the urgency doesn't seem to be breaking through, like, what is that about? And it, I think part of it is, I understand the overwhelm for people because even when we start talking about all these topics and you're like, there's this corruption here and they're shooting people in the streets and they're maybe going to go to war with Iran and five weeks ago we were going to go to war with Greenland and it overwhelms the nervous system and our political class seems unable to. They think, they think it's 10 things. You say, well, what do Democrats run on? What do they talk about? It's not 10 things. It's one thing. It's all the same thing. It is. The Epstein story is a story of Donald Trump protecting elites over average people.

[Sarah Longwell]

Right?

[JVL]

It is. Every one of these stories is a story that you could tell quickly, which is they are just, they are. Every single one of you are being scammed. Every single one of you. Your prices aren't getting better, your grocery prices aren't getting cheaper, your housing prices aren't getting cheaper. Like, the whole thing make America great again was a lie. Like, you can talk about that all day long and every single one of these issues can be wrapped into that. If they could just see. And I guess I don't understand. What I don't understand is why the anger doesn't drive them. Like, the outrage should be enough to talk. You don't have to have perfect words. You don't have to listen to focus groups or look at polling. You can just be so mad and go talk about it. And if everybody did that, it would communicate the idea of how outrageous it is. But people keep treating it like it's normal.

[Tim Miller]

I agree with all that that relates to kind of. I wanted to answer JBL's question about why was South Korea and Brazil able to do this and we weren't? And I think it's like a little bit failure of imagination, a little bit cowardice. Right? I think that there was a sense that, like, in America, this isn't. We elected him, but it was kind of a mistake. And Hillary won the popular vote and it's still America. And things are going. Things in my life are going okay or fine. And I just. And Joe Biden gets in there and is like, we're gonna return to, you know, norms and, like, we're gonna, you know, turn the page on this and everybody's gonna move on. And he did this insurrection. Even Mitch McConnell doesn't think he can come back. Like, there was a failure of imagination all around. And I think that.

[Sarah Longwell]

Not from the people on this stage,

[Tim Miller]

obviously, but I think in areas, in less developed democracies, ironically, like, there was a sense of, like, no, like, we need to take care of these other guys. These guys need to be held accountable or else things are going to totally devolve in our country. And so we ended up in a place where things are totally devolving in our country. And I want to fast forward it to right now because I think this is very strange that I find myself being more radical than Tim Walls and Keith Ellison. But I kind of don't understand why the Attorney General of Minnesota is not indicting. Indicting people right now. I mean, I don't. It is. I'm so, like, I'm not a lawyer. So you can listen to the illegal news and maybe in a lawyer can correct me, but I didn't need. Like, I was not that impressed. As impressed as everybody else with the Jack Smith testimony because I didn't need Jack Smith's investigation to know that Donald Trump did crimes on January 6th because I fucking watched them. And I don't know that we need an in depth independent investigation to know that two people executed Alex Preddy because we fucking watched him. And I don't know. And I respect everybody that's trying to do their best. I know it's tough here. And it's easy for me to sit here in my podcast studio. Nolan's be like, blah, blah, blah, you should start a constitutional crisis. But like, we're in a constitutional crisis. And you know, we were talking with Governor Wallace. I said, we'll talk a little bit more about him later. But one of the things he said is, you know, there's a long game and in 2029 they'll be. And I'm kind of like, I think that these fuckers should be arrested. And I think it's the same exact thing as January 6th. And I. And I think that there is a sense among elites in this country that, like, you know, we just ride it out. You know, you don't need to rock the boat enough to do what they did in South Korea, because we'll just ride it out.

[Sam Stein]

Totally agree. And I think the perfect personification is, I don't want to be so backwards looking, but is Merrick Garland the failure of imagination? It was just like, well, we'll get the low, we'll get the people who stormed the Capitol, we'll build up some cases, we'll wait and see. He may be running again. Oh, my God, I gotta appoint a special prosecutor now. And by the time you start, it's too late. And, you know, I think the disheartening thing is to see current leadership not correcting that mistake.

[Sarah Longwell]

Right.

[Sam Stein]

It's like, well, it will work out and it doesn't have to be my problem. And that's just so.

[Tim Miller]

Because we already know what's going to happen in 20. Even in our best case scenario where Donald Trump decides not to run and he takes an appointment at a fake board in the world and JD Vance is so unappealing because of his recessed side profile that he gets annihilated by some Democrat. And the Democrat comes in, we know what happens next time. They're like, we gotta focus on jbl, tell them what's gonna happen.

[Sarah Longwell]

Healthcare, we gotta expand. Medicare for all who want it. Because we need to. You have to look forward. You can't look back. The way we do this is we build a vision for the future and we don't run the mistakes of the past. Put every one of these motherfuckers in jail. That's how you make sure it doesn't happen again. Namaste. Between the kids and work and this podcast and all the other podcasts, I have no Time to go wine shopping. Thankfully, a shipment from Naked Wines ticks off at least one thing on my to do list. This podcast is sponsored by Naked Wines. Naked Wines is a wine club that directly connects you to the world's best independent winemakers so you can get world class wine delivered straight to your door. How do they do it? Naked Wines brings you amazing wine straight from the winery at up to 60% less than what you would pay in the store. By cutting out extra costs like middleman markups, winemakers can pass those savings on to you without skimping on quality. It's easy. The wines are fantastic. It's a gift you can make to yourself and everyone else in your life who gets to enjoy them and gets to enjoy you on them. Get the best wine at the best price with Naked Wines. Now is the time to join the Naked Wines community. Head to nakedwines.com thenextlevel, click enter voucher and put in my code. The next level for both the code and password. For $100 off your first order, that's 6 bottles for only $39.99 with shipping included, that's $100 off your first 6 bottles at nakedwines.com thenextlevel. Use the code and password thenextlevel for 6 bottles of wine for $39.99. Namaste. We do need to talk a little bit about politics and I do not want to do that without some are saying the greatest political pundit of our time woke Bill Kristol.

[Tim Miller]

How'd you like that rant, Bill? How you feeling?

[Bill Kristol]

I love that rant. That rant was fantastic.

[Sarah Longwell]

All right, so I want to.

[Bill Kristol]

Whoever gave that rant should run for president.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, I do like being around people. So we got to be with the guy who everybody on this stage had really been advocating for to be the vice presidential nominee, Governor Tim Walz last night. And I just wanted to give us all a chance to reappraise and see what we think. And now that he's not here. And I would just like to say two things. First of all, he was much larger. He's so tall and spryer than I thought.

[Tim Miller]

Did they have did like Kamala always have him on a step lower than her or something because she.

[Sarah Longwell]

My impression from the campaign was that he was 5 foot 7 and a little bit, you know, doddering, super vigorous and whatnot. But my second impression was how is this guy only nine years older than me? Because he does kind of look 70ish.

[Bill Kristol]

I would like to say there's nothing wrong with being five foot seven and a little bit doddering

[Sam Stein]

anyway.

[Tim Miller]

You are five, seven and a half, William.

[Bill Kristol]

More like five, six and a half, but who's counting, you know?

[Sponsor Announcer 1]

Right.

[Sarah Longwell]

I was just curious as to what you guys thought because my. My hand to God impression of him was that the Kamala Harris campaign, which I think performed heroically in many ways, did him dirty because I thought he was pretty great.

[Bill Kristol]

Look, I also liked him last night, and I was interested. You know, he was very lively and intelligent, obviously in the room, discussion backstage, and then very charming out here, and adept.

[Sponsor Announcer 1]

And he's.

[Bill Kristol]

Look, he's a good politician. He won a swing seat, beat an incumbent Republican, if I'm right, in 2008, held that seat in a kind of tough district, then won, obviously, election to governor twice. So he's an adept politician. I don't think the campaign probably did a very good job of helping him understand the challenges of running for the vice presidency. But to be fair, he was not the right pick because he had not been on the national stage much. He hadn't thought about running. And most of the good vice presidential candidates are people who. Who've run for president or who've been close to running for president and sort of, you know, been in that kind of spotlight. It's very, very hard. And we've seen this time and again. I worked for Dan Quayle, who was a good senator and a nice man, and they threw him out there in 88. And he just got destined, you know, had a horrible campaign. And that's happened with others.

[Tim Miller]

Put him that spelling bee. Great call. Great work on that one. That worked well.

[Bill Kristol]

We can. Yeah, we can kill. We could be here for about at midnight talking about my excellent career of advising other people. Right. Electing people. The 92 bush quail. The 1992 bush quail reelection was brilliant. Murphy Brown, very important tactical move by us. So I think. I think the lesson I take from the walls thing is the Harris campaign

[Sarah Longwell]

tell the people real quickly, I'm not.

[Sponsor Announcer 1]

I'm not.

[Bill Kristol]

I'm not even going there. This is just JBL causing trouble when the vice. I want to hear these people's thoughts.

[Sarah Longwell]

I want to hear their thoughts saying anything about Murphy Brown. You were the one who told him, no, don't do this. Right.

[Bill Kristol]

No, no, no. It was a good speech. If you go back and read that speech, but I'm not going to relitigate that.

[Tim Miller]

By the way, when Jeff didn't, please clap that. He also got dirty on that. He was being Self deprecating. You know, sometimes history misappraises.

[Bill Kristol]

Yeah, Tim. Tim. Tim and I could. Tim and I could do a whole. We could do a whole day reminiscing about our great campaign experiences, all the older Republicans we worked on for back in the day. Anyway, on walls.

[Tim Miller]

I just wanted to.

[Bill Kristol]

One more word. On walls. I mean, so my lesson is basically pick someone for vice president who's run for president or who has been in the talk at least of running for president, who's been in the national spotlight an awful lot. It just works out better.

[Tim Miller]

Here's my thing. On walls, I think that those of us that didn't like the pick and weren't so keen on him and those of you that liked him were both wrong. Like, we were talking past each other. And like, what I assessed with Walls last night is like, there's a lot of stuff he's really good at, man. Like, he's in this moment right now and has stepped up and is unbelievable at, like, rallying his supporters, rallying those who are on his ideological side, showing empathy, being a real human, appealing to, you know, people that are looking for somebody to lead them. Like, he's been like, he's filled that role, like, beautifully, like the thing. And I didn't see that because I didn't really know. He showed up out of nowhere. He started calling her weird or started calling Shady Vance weird. And all of a sudden, he was the vice presidential pick. I was like, this is interesting. So I didn't get to see his good traits. And, like. But the Kamala Harris campaign didn't seem to pick him for that reason. Like, a lot of lefties picked him because they're like, this guy's a football coach who can fix a carburetor. And let me tell you, Joe Rogan is going to be drooling over that any minute. And it's like, no, that's not right, actually. Like, that. What we know, the swing voters and people that I know that come from conservative backgrounds, they look at Tim Wallace and they're like, oh, yeah, he was the lib teacher at the school. I know we all had that. We had the affable lib teacher we all liked. We liked him very much. We don't want him to be governor because he's a huge lib and loves abortion and wants to hug trees and. And stuff. But, like, he's a nice guy. And, you know, he was a great coach. And, like, that's Tim Walls. And so, like, he was just totally, I think, miscast. If you will thinking about it in that sense. And, you know, so I feel like maybe we were a little too hard on him. I feel bad, but I just. I don't think he was set up to succeed at all. And he is just so damn tall. How is it possible that I was off by 4 inches on what his height was?

[JVL]

We were all very impressed by his height in the room. And we spent. We were in a. It was a closed room. So his height was very noticeable to all of us. I actually don't think for people who really thought he was a good choice and those of us who did not think he was a good choice, Josh

[Sarah Longwell]

Shapiro, not tall at all.

[Tim Miller]

He is not. I towered over him. To Josh, Fine.

[JVL]

The tight is not as important as you think. You don't even know how tall anybody is. You can't tell anymore. But I think that we were both not wrong. I think we were both right. Because I think what in my experience now with walls and even just spending some time with him last night, like, I think we need a very good person to be in public office, but I do not think we can have a nice person in public office right now. Like, there was a way in which he was talking about what was happening to us backstage stage, and I was going like this. And I don't want to get into sort of what he was saying, but it was clear to me that he felt like in his dealings with this administration that he was dealing with people who, like, were maybe actors in good faith. And I was a little perplexed that anybody. Like, you really do need people right now who are. I don't think you do know. I don't think anybody thinks Democrats need their own Donald Trump. But I do think that right now is not the. Like, it's just. There's something funny about the idea that, like, oh, he called them weird. And so, like, that's a real messenger who's going hard. And I'm like, could we kill him?

[Tim Miller]

You know, standing on the stage with

[JVL]

JD Vance kind of nodding yes. You know, he's making nice points. Points. I'm like, this is not what we need right now. Like, you're a good person in the world, needs really good people. But, like, we need people. Sweep the leg, Johnny. There's gonna have to be an edge of ruthlessness on this, or at least the ability to, like, go fight really hard and. And understand you have to see your enemy clearly. And it is a difficult thing, actually, for nice people to see their enemies clearly, because it doesn't always occur to them that people would behave that way like you think because you're a good actor, they will be too. And that is not what we're dealing with.

[Sarah Longwell]

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[Sam Stein]

Let me just. I'll be very quick. I suffer from that. I'm too nice. But this does. Thank you, whoever that is, thank you.

[JVL]

No one ever said that people say you're too handsome.

[Sam Stein]

No, they don't say that. This relates to our earlier conversation though, because a lot of this is just timidity, right? Like he was. I thought he was brought onto the ticket because he was going to go everywhere and talk everywhere and be everywhere, and then they just bottle him up. And so to me, that seemed totally counterintuitive and obviously self defeating. And there is this part of the Democratic DNA just by, you know, from covering them for so long where they are so timid, like, it's not just nice. Yes, they should be meaner, of course, but they also need to just be more active or hyperactive. In the Kamala Harris campaign. I agree with jvl. It did a lot and a little. But one thing it didn't do was just, you know, put the pedal to the metal with that guy. And if you're gonna hire someone like Tim Walls or put him on the ticket, you know, he may not be mean enough, but at least unleash him. And they just didn't do him.

[Tim Miller]

Use it well.

[Sarah Longwell]

All right.

[Tim Miller]

Why don't you tell me you brought me a bourbon? This is. Was needed. I've been sitting here dying for this. Do you want to share my last thing? I'll just take a chair, chug, and then hand it over. My last thing on Tim Walls is just give it up for. For him to come out here after we've been shitting on him.

[Sarah Longwell]

Oh, yeah.

[Tim Miller]

For him to be out here when he has a real fucking job to do, when these assholes are still out there menacing his city. He knows it's important to reach out to other people and what? Shout out to that guy, man.

[Sarah Longwell]

Good guy. All right, so very quickly we got. We're gonna talk about this only because we want to. I don't know if you guys are gonna care at all. We had a New York, New York, New Hampshire Democratic primary poll dropped today, which essentially just means white Democrats,

[JVL]

not like the people in this room.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, you guys would care. What are the whites thinking about 20,

[Sarah Longwell]

28 stuff white people like.

[Tim Miller]

Do you want to guess who I join a guess? Why don't you guys guess? Who do you think is first among the whites right now in the Democratic primary?

[Sam Stein]

No.

[Tim Miller]

Wrong. Wrong, Wrong. Anyone? He's a little zesty.

[Sarah Longwell]

Mayor Pete. There you go with 20%. Number two with 15%. AOC. Tied with AOC. Gavin Newsome tied at 10%. Kamal Harris and Mark Kelly.

[Tim Miller]

Mark Kelly.

[Sarah Longwell]

And then we get down into the 5% and under, which is Bernie Pritzker, Shapiro, Bashir,

[Tim Miller]

1%.

[Sarah Longwell]

Gretchen Whitmer. Thank God.

[JVL]

Thank God Bernie on these polls.

[Tim Miller]

He's going to be 86.

[JVL]

What is wrong with you guys? Why? Stop putting Bernie on there.

[Tim Miller]

So Bernie is never Gonna die. I'm sorry. Bernie looks exactly the same as he did in 1977. He is a.

[Sarah Longwell]

Look, we have a fun thing to do, so we gotta go through this rapid fire, but what were your guys's impressions?

[Sam Stein]

Okay, I'll go quickly. The most impressive number there was not Buttigieg, it was Mark Kelly. He had gone up seven points because he took on Pete Hegseth. And he had taken. Taken that opportunity to raise his profile. That's it.

[Tim Miller]

People want someone who's the fucking lesson from this? Why is this so hard? I don't know. It's very easy. Fight back.

[Sam Stein]

People will like it.

[Tim Miller]

Fight them, kick them in the balls, spit on them, tell them that they're losers. That's what the people want and that's what the moment requires. Mark Kelly, fourth place now. Kudos.

[Bill Kristol]

All right, Bill, I'm for the Tim Miller, Sarah Longwell ticket or you have

[Tim Miller]

not seen my Grinder archive or the Sarah.

[Bill Kristol]

Well, look, if Trump can't be worse

[JVL]

than Trump, am I not Sarah Longwell

[Bill Kristol]

or the Sarah Longwell Tim Miller ticket? I'm a little undecided.

[Tim Miller]

Which.

[Bill Kristol]

Which do you prefer? Let's really cause dissension up here, you know, what do you think? Think Miller, Longwell or Longwell?

[Tim Miller]

Miller.

[Bill Kristol]

Miller Longwell.

[Tim Miller]

No, Longwell.

[Sarah Longwell]

I have not.

[Bill Kristol]

Longwell Miller. Okay, let the people decide.

[Tim Miller]

Let the people decide.

[JVL]

Everybody knows that what you need now in a vice president is a shitposter in chief. And that's this guy right here.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah,

[Tim Miller]

here's one thing I would say. Can you just read the list again? Just the names, not the numbers. Just really fast.

[Sarah Longwell]

Mayor Pete, aoc, Gavin, Kamala Harris, Mark Kelly, Sanders, Pritzker, Shapiro, Bashir, Booker, Clobo.

[Tim Miller]

The first two names, Mayor Pete and aoc. I think you say we need a shitposter in chief. They're the only people that actually talk like themselves on social media. And that's not, that's not an accident. All the rest of Those people have 24 year old bisexuals doing their posting.

[Bill Kristol]

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Tim Miller]

Not that there's anything wrong with something.

[Bill Kristol]

Since we're here in Minnesota, we need to say that.

[JVL]

Yeah, but bisexuals aren't known for being clear and picking a lane. So, you know, just like

[Tim Miller]

I just. If you're going to run For President in 2028, your social media feed should not be run by a bisexual with long Covid. I'm sorry. Like you need to find. You either need to do it yourself or find somebody that did not make it into Kenyon. Find a GW kid. No Dartmouth, no Kenyon. Nobody that uses strange words like newfangled terminologies like centering. Okay. You need people that talk like regular humans on social media, because that's where people encounter you, and that's what people want. And Pete and AOC Talk like themselves. Pete does kind of talk like a fancy pants, because he is one, but it's. At least we know it's him. Okay. It's not somebody else doing it. It's him.

[JVL]

Yeah. Pete needs a comms director who's, like, a super butch dude or, like, actually a super butch lesbian. Actually, is probably.

[Tim Miller]

Maybe a butch lesbian.

[JVL]

Well, I mean, I'm more of like, a, you know, Sporty Spice lesbian, but that's fine.

[Sarah Longwell]

All right.

[Tim Miller]

You're the butch one.

[JVL]

Sorry.

[Tim Miller]

In the marriage. Let's just be quickly.

[Sarah Longwell]

Quickly.

[JVL]

Okay. We're gonna get to. They don't mind if they stay a little longer. It's okay. We're all hanging out.

[Sarah Longwell]

They're fine. Go ahead and be good cop while I'm the one trying to keep us to the schedule.

[Sam Stein]

Sorry.

[JVL]

So I asked. We all got to ask Governor Walls a question. And I decided to ask him the meanest question I could think of, which was, should Kamala Harris run for president again? And that was the reaction last night, too, which she continued to poll quite highly, which I think is probably just a name ID situation, but I do think everybody seems to understand that that would be a bad idea.

[Tim Miller]

Right?

[JVL]

We know this. Okay, great. Great.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, I thought that what Tim Walls didn't say was telling. So I don't want to speak for the governor, but he didn't give a yes or no. But. And if he. I would assume that they got to know each other pretty well. I mean, if he was very excited about it, he could have been like, you. Okay, all right, little missy. You know, he could have given you one of those. And, like, we really appreciate the vice president, and she was a strong leader, and I'm supporting her whatever she does. He didn't give you that?

[JVL]

No.

[Tim Miller]

Just saying.

[Sarah Longwell]

All right, before we turn it over, just very quickly, the AOC number. For somebody who isn't even really.

[JVL]

You love AOC so much.

[Sarah Longwell]

You're damn right I do.

[Tim Miller]

Jbl, stop voting with your dick, okay? You're a married man. You have four children.

[Sam Stein]

Go on, JBL.

[JVL]

JBL's wife texts us a lot when we've been bad.

[Sarah Longwell]

I just think AOC is exciting and new, and she belongs to the actual present. And not the past. And I don't know, I'd like to maybe kick the tires on that and see if she can build a movement.

[Tim Miller]

I think we should go ahead.

[JVL]

Or do we? I'm sorry, but I was reliably told that we are too racist and too sexist of a country to elect a woman of color.

[Sarah Longwell]

You raise a good point.

[Tim Miller]

There's something to be said for that. Here's my thing. On aoc, at least she's different than an outsider. And I like that. And at least she's true to herself and I like that. And I think that the Democrats could really use somebody that is not just running on a warmed over version of the same shit that Hillary Clinton ran on 2016. God lover. Like people want different. People want somebody that is, that is brand separated from that. Like that's what people want. AOC is brand separated. That's good. I like my one AOC thing. I mean, we're not gonna, we're not gonna do Medicare for All or whatever. I'm just, you know, I'm being a shallow political consultant for a second. My one AOC thing is she was very online during peak woke. And I think if I put together a sizzle reel of the weirdest shit she said About Latinx in 2019, people would look at that and be like,

[JVL]

woof, Is that how you pronounce Latinx?

[Tim Miller]

Is Latinx Latinx, yeah, Latinx. Because she was doing like Latin twinks. Latin twinks. And I like those. And she was, she was just Instagram living a lot at the height of peak woke. And I just, I don't know how well, I just, I think about my buddy's dad who lives in Baton Rouge, who's a good Democrat from Louisiana, and he pulled me after one of these panels I'm on or some lived in the crowd is like, what about AOC 2028? And I did the same thing I just did. I got off stage and he grabbed me.

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[Tim Miller]

me it's not AOC is not going to play down here, boy. And I was like, all right, well, there you go. I don't know. We'll see.

[Sarah Longwell]

All right. So Tim, I turned it over to you because this next segment was your baby.

[Tim Miller]

You didn't woke Bill. Crystal didn't have a positive AOC take. You were loving AOC on the podcast on Monday, people. I got a couple texts.

[Bill Kristol]

You got her?

[Tim Miller]

No, no. You talking about aoc? I got a couple texts. They were like, what is the deal with Bill Kristol's endorsement of AOC's Munich comments? You don't want to expand on that.

[Bill Kristol]

She was better. I mean, she doesn't have my foreign policy views, I suspect, and I don't have hers. She was, but it's very interesting. She was better at Munich than the security conference last week. In terms of if you care about alliances, if you care about standing up for democracy, if you care about American the internationalism of the last 80 years and the American led liberal world order and so forth, she was much closer to that than the Trump administration. And I mean, look, if she can lead the left back from a McGovern type left, a little unfair to McGovern, but let's just call it that to Hubert Humphrey type liberalism, that would be great.

[Tim Miller]

Hubert.

[JVL]

You guys all just know what Hubert Hubert Humphrey type liberalism is.

[Tim Miller]

He's from Minnesota.

[JVL]

I understand we're in Minnesota, but still.

[Bill Kristol]

All right.

[Sarah Longwell]

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[Tim Miller]

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[Sarah Longwell]

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[JVL]

Not Belgium McDivy hi, this is Danielle Robay, the host of Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, a podcast by hello Sunshine

[Sarah Longwell]

and I Heart Podcasts. I'm partnering with Simple Mills and I've

[Tim Miller]

just found my new Go to Reading snack.

[Sarah Longwell]

Simple Mills Almond Flour Crackers. Think of this as a quick book

[Tim Miller]

style review because these crackers deserve it.

[Sarah Longwell]

The premise A snack that feels light, not heavy. Made with almond flour, sunflower seeds and flax seeds.

[JVL]

Nutrient dense ingredients your body can use. Not empty carbs and the taste Crunchy,

[Sarah Longwell]

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[JVL]

For a good plot twist, try Popums Cheesy, airy, poppable crackers packed with veggies.

[Sarah Longwell]

Final Verdict these are a shelf staple. Find Simple Meals at your grocery store.