The Next Level, Episode 1069: “Every Single Person Around Trump Is Expendable”

Podcast by The Bulwark
Date: April 3, 2026
Hosts: Sarah Longwell & Jonathan V. Last (JVL)

Episode Overview

In this early, “bedhead” edition, Sarah Longwell and JVL break down the tumultuous state of the Trump White House amid an escalating war with Iran. They explore the recent ousting of Pam Bondi, speculation surrounding further personnel shakeups, Trump’s public communications (including his widely criticized Iran speech), war aims, economic fallout, and American military actions—raising uncomfortable questions about the way this war is being conducted versus longstanding American values.

Key Discussion Points

1. Bedhead Banter & Housekeeping

• The episode opens with light-hearted banter about recording “on Natural,” neither host having time to get ready, poking fun at their appearance.
  • “We made a pact that we would do a bed head episode...I feel like I’m getting the worst end of this." (B, 00:16)

2. Major Buckets for Discussion

• JVL’s Agenda:
  • Two big topics for the episode:
    1. Iran and the State of the War
    2. Presidential Personnel Issues—notably the firing of Pam Bondi and recent moves by Pete Hegseth at the Pentagon.
  • (A, 02:22)

3. White House Personnel Turmoil

Pam Bondi's Firing

• Sarah’s Take:
  • Skeptical about simplistic “it’s a distraction” explanations (“I don’t subscribe to the top level analysis of everything Trump does is a distraction from Epstein” [B, 03:27])
  • Instead, sees it as part of Trump’s instinctive “narrative dominance”—whenever media coverage becomes unfavorable, Trump instinctively shifts the narrative, often via firing someone of prominence.
    • “He treats the press kind of like cats—go chase this now.” (B, 03:44)
• There’s speculation whether Bondi’s firing was linked to her upcoming testimony and/or as an offering to a political “machine” to move attention away from the Iranian conflict.
  • “These are scalps he gives to the machine to feed it when he needs something to feed it.” (B, 07:16)

Potential for More Shakeups

• JVL: “If we’re gonna do two or three more weeks of the war in Iran, that could mean two or three more cabinet firings, honestly.” (A, 07:36)
• Sarah: “Well, then Tulsi’s next.” (B, 07:44)

Pete Hegseth’s Role

• Hegseth, now at the Pentagon, fired the Army Chief of Staff—a move emblematic of the administration’s chaos and Trump’s unorthodox, loyalty-driven management style. (A, 02:22)

4. War in Iran—Fog, Escalation, and Communication

Tensions & Unverified Reports

• Fresh Iranian claim that they shot down a US F-15, but details are unverified. Both share anxiety and dread:
  • “Hope not. Hope it’s not true. These things are piloted. It would be very, very bad to lose an American pilot.” (A, 07:56)
• First combat death would be a grave escalation, adding a new level of tragedy and risk. (A/B, 08:48)

Trump's War Aims & “Unconditional Surrender”

• JVL recalls a March 6th Trump social media post:
  • Quote: “There will be no deal with Iran except unconditional surrender.” (A, 09:52)
• Aides like Hegseth tried to walk that back, saying “unconditional surrender” would be defined by the president—“The president knows in his mind when they have unconditionally surrendered.” (A, 10:31)
• This rhetorical slipperiness undermines clarity of purpose.

Ambiguous, Unstable War Objectives

• Discussion of shifting, unclear objectives, leaving the U.S. on the path to exit with Iran’s regime intact, the Strait of Hormuz still disputed, and rising global oil prices.

5. Oil Prices & Economic Fallout

• Outlook for oil is grim, with physical spot price hitting $141/barrel (A/B, 13:08), and concern that $150/barrel could tip countries into crisis.
  • US consumers might be insulated compared to other countries, but the fundamental misunderstanding of commodity markets by Trump is called out.
  • JVL: “That’s not how commodities work... Unless the government wants to set the price of gas in America—I mean, I worry that that might be socialism, though.” (A, 14:52)

6. Trump’s Public Communications—A Speech in Crisis

Disastrous Iran Speech

• Both hosts highlight how poorly Trump’s recent Iran speech landed—seen as incoherent, rambling, and “breathtaking” for its incompetence.
  • “Is this ad libbed? Did anybody write this? Is he reading from a prompt?” (B, 17:51)
  • “He sounds addled and old and he’s like slurring things, but he’s also, he just sounds like an idiot.” (B, 17:58)
• JVL pushes that the speech was so off it looked like a medical event (“My contention was that it was like he was having a health event.” A, 19:43)
  • “As a pure, like, figures...do you think this guy’s in control of his mentals? Almost everybody would say, God, no. What’s wrong with that man?” (A, 19:58)
• Comparison with Biden’s sometimes halting public speaking, but distinction that Trump’s rambling is deeply confusing and offers no substance.

Voters and Focus Group Reactions

• Sarah notes preliminary focus group findings:
  • Traditional swing voters are “almost uniformly negative” about the war and blame Trump:
    • “Most people think it’s going catastrophically bad. And there’s almost no one who doesn’t think it’s Trump’s fault.” (B, 19:15)
  • Interest in discovering how “three-time Trump voters” process his speeches (A, 18:12)

7. The War’s Conduct—Ethics, Crimes, and American Values

Questionable Military Actions

• The US destroyed a major civilian bridge in Iran, with reports of significant civilian casualties (A, 25:00-26:01).
• JVL asks if this is “war crimey,” noting that bombing purely civilian infrastructure is outside the norms codified in the Geneva Conventions.
  • “Blowing up a civilian bridge feels like something Putin would be doing in Ukraine, not something that America does.” (A, 26:01)
• Legal loopholes exist if the target has “joint use,” but, per US government claims, Iran was not using the bridge militarily.

Broader Crisis of American Conduct

• Sarah: At every step, the war is being waged outside of normal American values—from not consulting Congress or the public, to adopting authoritarian tactics:
  • “At every single juncture...what we’re doing doesn’t feel like the way we would normally do things.” (B, 30:55)
  • “From not consulting Congress to not stating a clear objective, to not talking to the American people, to doing no case making.” (B, 30:55)

8. Inside Reporting & Trump’s Media Obsession

• JVL promises to read revelations from a new Time magazine piece with direct White House access, noting Trump’s obsession with the magazine and how it shapes who gets inside access. (A, 31:58)
• Teases further insider details for paying members.

Memorable Quotes

• “He treats the press kind of like cats—go chase this now.” (Sarah, 03:44)
• “If we’re gonna do two or three more weeks of the war in Iran, that could mean two or three more cabinet firings, honestly.” (JVL, 07:36)
• “The president knows in his mind when they have unconditionally surrendered.” (JVL relaying staffer spin, 10:31)
• “That’s not how commodities work...I worry that that might be socialism, though.” (JVL, 14:52)
• “He sounds addled and old and he’s like slurring things, but he’s also, he just sounds like an idiot.” (Sarah, 17:58)
• “Blowing up a civilian bridge feels like something Putin would be doing in Ukraine, not something that America does.” (JVL, 26:01)
• “At every single juncture...what we’re doing doesn’t feel like the way we would normally do things.” (Sarah, 30:55)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:16 – Bedhead episode, banter and episode logistics
• 02:22 – JVL’s episode agenda: Iran war & personnel
• 03:22 – Why fire Pam Bondi? Narrative dominance and Trump’s management style
• 07:36 – Prediction: More firings as war drags on
• 07:50 – Rumors of US plane shot down in Iran
• 09:52 – Trump’s “unconditional surrender” rhetoric and staff walkbacks
• 12:30 – Oil prices, spot price, and problems for global economy
• 17:51 – The disastrous Iran speech & Trump’s incoherence
• 19:15 – Focus group feedback: swing voters blame Trump
• 25:00 – US strikes civilian bridge in Iran; is this a war crime?
• 30:55 – Broader crisis of American values in war conduct

Summary & Takeaway

This episode highlights a White House and a nation both at war and in meltdown. Personnel are expendable, policy is scattershot, and Trump’s management is impulsive and personalistic (“narrative dominance”). As war with Iran deepens, civilian deaths mount, and economic impacts threaten to ripple worldwide, these Bulwark hosts warn of an America abandoning its own democratic and ethical norms, with the country managed by a president increasingly unmoored from clarity, restraint, and tradition.