Podcast Summary: The Next Level (The Bulwark)

Episode 1071: Secret Podcast — The Podcast Wars

Date: April 11, 2026
Hosts: Sarah Longwell, Tim Miller (not present on this section), and Jonathan V. Last (JVL)

Episode Overview

This episode of The Next Level centers around the current “Podcast Wars” ignited by Donald Trump’s attacks on right-wing podcasters, the shifting ground of the right-wing media ecosystem, and consequential news from the political and international stage—including the latest on the Middle East ceasefire, Melania Trump’s Jeffrey Epstein statement, and evolving public sentiment around Israel. Throughout, Sarah and JVL deliver their trademark political banter and sharp insight, drawing connections between media infighting, political loyalty tests, and the future of audience influence on American politics.

1. Opening Banter & Merch Plug (00:49–04:00)

• Bedhead Joke: JVL teases Sarah about podcast “bedhead” vs. looking like a grown-up.
• Community Shade: JVL responds to a listener mocking his informal appearance on another podcast, noting, “One of our members commented how nice it was...I see you. I know.” (01:27)
• Merge Store Plug:
  • JVL introduces a new “JVL has a Posse” sticker, riffing on the famous Shepard Fairey “Andre the Giant has a Posse” stencil campaign.
  • Sarah is unfamiliar, but JVL explains why it was cult-favorite, hinting at generational gaps.

“This is a real Gen X thing.” – JVL (03:20)

2. News Rundown: Middle East, Trump, and Melania (04:00–13:12)

A. Ceasefire Confusion (04:00–05:56)

• Ceasefire Unclear:

  • JVL jokes: “What if the real ceasefire is the friends we made along the way?” (04:15)
  • Sarah: “I think we have the enemies we made along the way.” (04:23)

• U.S. Holds Fire: JVL: “Lots of shooting yesterday…does not appear that America did any shooting, though.”

• Trump on Social Media:

  • JVL reads Trump’s Truth Social posts about Iran charging tanker fees and not allowing oil through the Strait of Hormuz, and how Trump seems surprised by established practices.
  • Both hosts find this revealing of Trump’s lack of awareness and political bravado.
  • Sarah: “What agreement do we have?” (05:36)
  • JVL: “Does that sound like something that the victorious party in a war does?” (05:38)
  • Sarah: “We didn't win. We haven't won anything…It’s clear we have been humiliated.” (05:44)

B. Melania Trump’s Epstein Statement (05:56–12:11)

• Her Statement:

  • JVL summarizes Melania’s public statement denying any relationship or association with Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell, pointing out the oddity and defensiveness of the move.
  • JVL analogy: “It’s a little like if I went out…did not make love to a donkey last night…Very weird and specific thing to just start denying formally out of nowhere.” (07:16)
  • Both suspect something is about to break in the press, rather than this being proactive messaging.

• Communications Tactic Discussion:

  • Sarah outlines typical crisis comms playbook—denying before a damning article drops, “Are we going to wait for it to drop and then deny it, or get ahead with a pre-denial?” (08:43)
  • JVL questions the wisdom: “The weird part…You just put out a statement.” (09:40)
  • Sarah: “[A staged speech] is not the way to get less attention on this.” (09:16)

• Distraction Theory:

  • Sarah speculates the Trump team may need a distraction from the war with Iran going poorly: “We went to war with Iran to distract from Epstein, but it went so badly, we now need to use Epstein to distract from the war in Iran.” (10:19–10:31)

• Media Manipulation and AI:

  • Sarah flags the danger of a future where politicians dismiss real evidence as “AI”—“We are going to enter into a new world where real things that happen get immediately dismissed by politicians by saying that they’re fake.” (11:35)

3. Main Segment: The Podcast Wars (13:12–28:51)

A. Trump Attacks Right-Wing Podcasters (13:12–15:21)

• Trump’s Post:
  • JVL reads Trump’s long, rambling Truth Social attack on Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Candace Owens, and Alex Jones (“They think it is wonderful Iran…to have a nuclear weapon. Because they have one thing in common: low IQs. They’re stupid people…Now they think they get some clicks because they have third rate podcasts, but nobody’s talking about them and their views are the opposite of MAGA…”). (13:37–15:21)
  • Trump brags: “MAGA agrees with me and just gave CNN A 100% approval rating of Trump.” (14:39)

B. Is It Real or Just “Kayfabe”? (15:21–18:40)

• Professional Wrestling Metaphor:
  • JVL wonders: “Is this a real breakup? Is it just kayfabe…like, the tag team has broken up, but then one of them will be attacked by the real enemy, the libs…then they'll just patch things up?” (15:29)
• Symbiotic Relationships:
  • Sarah: “They’re in a symbiotic relationship that sort of requires each other. They do this from time to time…It’s beefing. Because then it’s everybody look at us…like the hip hop stars of the 90s and early aughts, where everybody’s West Coast…But in this case, I think they probably do come back around.” (16:00)
• Tests of Loyalty:
  • “It’s always a test. Is the absolute loyalty to Trump or to these podcasters?” (16:30)
• Fragmenting Right:
  • Sarah notes some podcasters (Tucker, Megyn Kelly, Candace, Alex Jones) are building America First-style independent brands. Some are “anti-Israel” or “harder on the anti-Israel front,” and see opportunity post-Trump—“These podcasters…are positioning for life after Trump…There’s a world after this and I want it to be mine.” (17:37)

C. Anecdote: Signs of MAGA-Fatigue and Changing Israel Sentiment (18:40–23:37)

• JVL’s Observation:
  • JVL describes a local New Jersey “ultra Maga house” with maximal Trump and “I Stand With Israel” paraphernalia—including a Trump totem pole—removing all symbols and even cutting down the pole in the past week. (19:20)
  • “Within the last week, all that shit went down. All the signs, all the flags…they cut the fucking totem pole down.” (20:05)
• Polling Shift:
  • Sarah highlights a poll: “60% disapproval of Israel now among Americans…Highest point among Americans ever...More among left and independents, but decent contingent of Republicans now too.” (20:21)
  • JVL: “It may have been Pew…either Gallup or Pew…Secret POD rules, first draft of history. It was 60%—that part I am sure about.” (20:22)
• Center-Right Awakening:
  • Sarah reflects on changing views towards Israel within the center-right, mentioning the humanitarian crisis post-October 7:

    “...it went from appropriate retaliation to a humanitarian crisis to something that started to look a lot like a genocide. And then…this war in Iran…Americans hate this war.” (21:15–22:43)

  • She predicts this will heavily impact the Democratic primary.

D. Responses From the “Attacked” Podcasters (23:37–25:58)

• Candace Owens: “It may be time to put grandpa up in a home.” (23:57)

• Alex Jones: Floats the idea Trump is being held hostage or suffering from dementia: “He’s mad that he’s wrong…he got set up by Israel…so, you know, we’re keep intervening…” (24:08)

• Notable Absences: No word yet from Tucker or Megyn Kelly.

  • JVL: “Is there a market for people saying Trump is just getting bad advice here? Or is it going to be like Candace, like old man is out of moves, he doesn’t know what’s going on anymore?” (24:55)

• Impact on Audience:

  • Sarah: “Candace has gone mainstream…she’s so fringe but people now engage with her as entertainment almost entirely…She has a cross-partisan audience. Whereas Megyn Kelly and Alex Jones and Tucker all still require a certain element of the hard right.” (25:15)

E. The Podcaster-to-Politician Pipeline (25:58–28:51)

• Candace for President?:
  • JVL recalls focus group mentions, asking if her presidential prospects have changed. (26:02)
  • Sarah thinks her appeal has grown: “There’s just two components…One is I think—did you see that RFK Jr has started a podcast?” (26:38)
• Influence of Podcasts:
  • JVL remarks on elected officials “podcasting first” (e.g., Ted Cruz, Dan Crenshaw).
  • Sarah: “The podcaster to politician pipeline hasn’t really started to fire up, but…that communications element, that parasocial element…I do think you’re going to start to see more podcaster to politician conversions.” (27:11–27:39)
  • JVL jokes about regretting the past when “at least Trump understood something about, like, economics or something.” (27:58)

    "We may be wistful...looking at President Candace and you know, just being like, well, at least Trump did a tax cut or something." (28:01)

4. (Start of) “The Other Podcast War” & Hasan Piker Discourse (28:51–28:55)

• The hosts tease a coming segment about the “Bulwark–Hasan Piker discourse,” with JVL noting his absence due to writing on war and Sarah ready to discuss.
• Sarah: "Let's drop the paywall." End of public episode content.

Notable Quotes

• JVL: “What if the real ceasefire is the friends we made along the way?” (04:17)
• JVL (on Melania’s statement): “It’s a very weird and specific thing to just start denying formally out of nowhere. And so I immediately thought, well, I guess something is about to drop.” (07:34)
• Sarah: “There’s no part of me as a comms person that thinks the way to get less attention on this is to go out and do a staged speech on it.” (09:16)
• Sarah: "We are going to enter into a new world where real things that happen get immediately dismissed by politicians by saying that they're fake...that's probably A.I." (11:35)
• Trump (quoted by JVL): “MAGA agrees with me and just gave CNN a 100% approval rating of Trump." (14:39)
• Sarah: “It’s always a test…is the absolute loyalty to Trump or do these audiences have their loyalty to these podcasters?” (16:30)
• Sarah: “These podcasters…are positioning for life after Trump. Tucker Carlson’s recent thing where he went after the war is about Tucker Carlson saying, there’s a world after this and I want it to be mine.” (17:37)
• JVL (on MAGA house): “Within the last week, all that shit went down. All the signs, all the flags came down and they cut the fucking totem pole down.” (20:05)
• Sarah: “It went from appropriate retaliation to a humanitarian crisis to something that started to look a lot like a genocide...and then this war in Iran…Americans hate this war.” (21:15–22:43)
• Candace Owens (quoted): “It may be time to put grandpa up in a home.” (23:57)
• Sarah: “The podcaster to politician pipeline hasn’t really started to fire up, but…you’re going to start to see more podcaster to politician conversions.” (27:39)

Timestamps of Major Segments

• 00:49–04:00 — Banter, listener shout-outs, and merch plug
• 04:00–05:56 — Ceasefire confusion and the status of U.S. involvement in the Middle East
• 05:56–12:11 — Melania Trump’s Epstein statement and crisis communications analysis
• 13:12–28:51 — Trump’s attack on right-wing podcasters, media infighting, shifting attitudes toward Israel, podcaster-to-politician pipeline
• 28:51–28:55 — Tease for “Hasan Piker discourse” and “the other podcast war”

Tone and Style

The conversation is alternately humorous, pointed, and insightful, often peppered with deadpan asides and inside-Bulwark jokes. Sarah and JVL use personal anecdotes and sharp analogies (e.g., professional wrestling “kayfabe,” focus groups, Trump totem pole) to illustrate political dynamics in plain language. The tone oscillates from wry disbelief (at Trump’s posts and Melania’s statement) to concern about larger democratic implications, but always with a sense of political savvy and cultural fluency.

Conclusion

Episode 1071 of The Next Level delivers a deeply informed and caustically funny breakdown of the week’s political strangeness, with a focus on Trump’s war with right-wing podcasters and the fracturing loyalty networks on the right. The hosts anticipate further drama as the election cycle unfolds, especially given shifting public opinions on Israel and the growing influence of self-made media personalities in American politics.