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A
What's up, y'?
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C
Visit your nearby Lowe's.
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A
Hello everyone. This is JVL coming to you live from the abattoir that is the Texas Republican Senate runoff. We're going to get to that in a minute. I'm here with my best friend Sarah Longwell and Tim Miller of the Bulwark Congress. Guys, it is great to be with you. I had assumed that we're going to begin this show by sort of vamping for a little bit and talking about politics in the day and we're gonna have to wait for the polls to close and all this. No, no, no. John Cornyn. He gone. He gone. I just want to read you one little thing from the New York Times needle. They have a new thing here where they, they look at on track to vote. So they do like an actual campaign a. You know, benchmarks for what they. Anyway, Ken Paxton is ahead of pre election benchmarks by 26 points. 26 points.
- [02:16]
B
Say it JBL. What is it? What. What did. What happened to John Cornyn?
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A
Got schlonged.
- [02:21]
B
He got schlonged.
- [02:23]
A
And I, I have so much to say. But I want to throw it to you guys, my best friends first to tell me what you think this says about the very fine people of Texas. That it was a close, close thing. On the one hand, there's John Cornyn. He's been in the Senate for six terms. He's a serious guy. He's well liked. He pulls through for Texas all the time. No scandals, anything like that. And the other guy, and there's this criminal. And they looked at these two and they said again, ahead of benchmarks by 26 points. They said, we want, oh, he's a criminal. Give us that guy.
- [03:07]
B
Why don't you take it? Why don't you take the first swing?
- [03:10]
C
Well, part of it is that this is, it's, it's criminally easy to diagnose what's happening here. And by criminal. That's right.
- [03:17]
B
Smooth criminal.
- [03:18]
C
Yeah. Look, I can't believe that taking a selfie of reading Art of the Deal and saying he was willing to nuke the filibuster didn't get John Cornyn over the line. This is, this is always a bit of a tough one for me because on one hand, obviously Cornyn is a better person than Ken Paxton and, and probably a better legislator. On the other hand, in stove touching land, you also want MAGA to be what MAGA is. And this is what MAGA is. You give them a normal Republican versus somebody who is corrupt with a lot of scandals, who looks more maga, more Trump friendly, they're going to take the guy that they see as more in Trump's corner. And I do wonder. This is Tim, I don't know if you have any thoughts on this. Watching the margins tonight, I'm not surprised at all. Paxton won because Wesley Hunt was the other. There was a third party the first go around and we did a bunch of focus groups in Texas and it was very clear that Wesley Hunt was his votes were going to go to Ken Paxton. And so like we always knew or I think we had long known Ken Paxton was, was likely to win this race. I do wonder whether Democrats voted for Ken Paxton in this primary. I don't know if they can, but there was it if for no other reason than to the extent that people do.
- [04:47]
B
There are a lot of Democratic primaries, I mean, you know, or some runoffs. And in some places I could have done it, but, but it would be on the margins.
- [04:54]
C
At the end of the day, Paxton is the weaker of the two candidates to go against T. Rico. So I feel like Democrats shouldn't like be so thrilled because I don't know that like Ken Paxton still has the odds chance of winning in Texas, but it does make Tao Rico a little more formidable.
- [05:15]
A
Tim, I have a question. Sarah said Ken Paxton was the more maga and I think that's right, but not more MAGA in Any legislative sense. Correct. Like not. He's not more cons. Paxton's not more conservative than Cornyn. He wouldn't vote with Trump more often than Cornyn did. It seems to me like the reason people voted for him was because of the crimes.
- [05:45]
B
Yeah, the vice signaling, honestly, I mean, the vice signaling and the unapologetic maga. And at times Cornyn would say things such as, you know, I wish that Trump wouldn't tweet that. Or, you know, like. Right. Or he'd say things such as, like, we should be supportive of our friends in Ukraine. Right. And so I guess that's a policy thing, technically. Right. So there are like some things, but substantively not a lot. And Paxton's crimes weren't just kind of minor crimes. They weren't just 15 year old Reddit posts, for example. I'm going to read a few of the things that he's done. Ken Paxton was impeached for bribery with bipartisan support. Bribery. 60 House Republicans voted to impeach him. Two Senate Republicans voted to convict. In the Texas legislature, he was indicted on fraud charges. Several high ranking whistleblowers in the AG's office report him to the FBI for bribery and other crimes. In retaliation, he had them fired. As a public official, his net worth has grown 7,000%. Oh, he had a buddy that did a child sex crime that he gave an essential pardon to. The guy only went to jail for 30 days. He just got out. And this goes, this is in addition to just the horrible way in which he treated his wife, which is, I
- [07:04]
A
was gonna say so, but at least he's a family guy, right? At least on a human level he's a good person. Right.
- [07:09]
B
So, yeah, no. So anyway, so we'll see how all of the people, the high and mighty at the National Review getting.
- [07:15]
A
We have the tweet.
- [07:16]
B
Chris Graham Platner, we'll see where they, we'll see where they end up here. Go ahead, jbl. I can't see it.
- [07:23]
A
So just for, for people listening to this. So we have a tweet here where first we have. Paxton's wife is back in 2025, announcing today, after 38 years of marriage, I filed for divorce on biblical grounds. Is that a, is that a legal
- [07:40]
B
term of art in Texas?
- [07:42]
A
I declare for Bible reasons. Anyway. And then this was retweeted by one Joanna Rodriguez, the comms director for the nrsc, who says, what Ken Paxton has put his family through is truly repulsive and disgusting. No one should have to endure what Angela Paxton has and we pray for her as she chooses to stand up for herself and her family during this difficult time.
- [08:05]
B
So repulsive and disgusting.
- [08:07]
A
Also a horrible human being in addition to a criminal. And again, this is what made the Republican voters in Texas run over broken glass to vote for the guy.
- [08:20]
B
Yeah. And it's what made Trump endorse him, I think is the other part. Right. Like the vice signaling is the point for the MAGA voters. I will just say my two big observations is if any of these people had any dignity whatsoever, I mean it is absolutely humiliating for both the Texas electorate, like the GOP electorate and for John Cornyn for separate reasons. I mean it was. Cornyn won, I know is a plurality, but he won the first round in the plurality. And so like the only thing that is different between that and now is Trump's endorsements. I mean like all these right wing guys, like it's a big thing online to talk about how people are, about how liberals are NPCs. They're like these non player characters of video games that go along with whatever the liberal trend of the moment is. Like this is a literal, like you're a literal. I guess you're not a literal lemming, but you're a lemming in all things besides, you know, the actual actually morphing into one. Right. Like the Republican electorate. Nothing changed between the first time and this one. Except Trump endorsed Paxton and I guess Paxton went all in on the SAVE act and the electorate responded by saying, yes, sir, Mr. Trump, sir. We're going to go. I mean it's beyond Massie numbers right now and we'll see how it turns out. But as we stand here right Now, Cornyn has 37%. Massie beat him by eight and Massey actually opposed Trump. So. So there you go. And then the humiliation for Corn and I mean I did a whole video on this. People go watch if they just really, you know, kind of want to get intimate with themselves for a little bit. We went back and revisited Cornyn's Big Bad John video. Do you remember this one? Jvl no. Yeah, he did like a. It's like a Marty Robbins, you know, western themed thing where he wore a cowboy hat and there's a song. Yeah, Big Bad, Big Bad John. Big Bad John. And they talked about how he's a big guy that'll stand up to the libs.
- [10:22]
C
He's very tall.
- [10:23]
B
Yeah, it's like Big Bad John just totally got prostrate before Donald Trump and said, I will do whatever you want, sir. I'll name a Highway. After you. I'll pretend to read your book. And he still didn't get the endorsement. And now he's heading to, really, one of the most humiliating primary defeats in memory.
- [10:43]
C
I got a couple other things. One is the Corny thing reminds me of Cassidy. Right? It's a very similar dynamic where Cassidy buddied up to Trump as much as he could. But ultimately, what the voters see in somebody like Ken Paxton is, well, he broke the law. He breaks the law. So does Trump. This is somebody who will break the law for Trump. Cornyn will mutter under his breath that he doesn't like some of the things that Trump is doing, but Paxton will go to all the lengths to clear whatever pesky laws might be in the way of what Donald Trump wants to do. But the, the debasement going into this, and Trump lining up against Cornyn also does set us up for another Senate Republican who might be pissed at Trump for the next seven months. And so to the extent that Democrats are really starting to think about what to do in the lame duck phase of having a bunch of yolo Republicans, it's time to go grab them and say, hey, come ride with us and let's make Trump's life's difficult here in the future. That was my main thought on that, on Paxton. Do we think, do we think he can lose to tell rico?
- [11:58]
A
I mean, he can, he can.
- [12:01]
B
He's the favorite, though, for sure.
- [12:03]
A
Lots of things can happen, right? I mean, I, I think it's a low probability outcome. Like, I think Talarico has maybe a 1 in 3, 2 and 5 chance.
- [12:20]
C
Is that.
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A
Am I right to you guys?
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B
Yeah. 60, 40, I'd say, I'd say 60, 40.
- [12:23]
A
Yeah.
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B
I haven't, I, I'll be results, but present chance.
- [12:27]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
- [12:30]
C
To hear if voters who liked Cornyn, if the more establishment types, if they feel burned by Trump, like, if there's active anger in that voting population or if they're just like, yeah, I wanted Cornyn, but Paxton will do. There could be some bitterness, but I don't know.
- [12:47]
B
Yeah. I mean, here's the key thing about Texas when you think about this, right? Like, and I think maybe we're an important messenger for this question. When you think about telo, right? Like, there's only so much juice in the orange on suburban George Bush. Mitt Romney don't really like Trump, don't really like Paxton voters, right? Like, there is, like, you can get closer with those voters, like, for sure,
- [13:11]
A
37%, which is what John Cornyn is sitting at.
- [13:15]
B
Yeah, but so, but that's not. Nothing like you add some percentage of those onto the Democratic vote and that's going to get you to close. I mean, Trump wanted by double digits, you know, Beto lost or whatever, three in 2018. So it's possible. But I think that's going to be like the low hanging fruit for Tellarico. Right. Like going to try to run up the score a little bit in the Dallas suburbs, even out to the Dallas exurbs at this point. Tarrant county, where Fort Worth is like, that just went Democrat for the first time. There are these voters definitely exist in the big metros. Yeah. To get over the hump in Texas though, like, he needs to do really well with Hispanic voters. Really well. And, and at least try to like carve down the Bashar Assad working class whites in the rest of the state. Because Texas is a really big state. I don't know if you've seen it, but like, it's not like Atlanta where there is like a big metro and then, you know, a lot of rural whites, like, but like, but Atlanta, there's like about as much of Atlanta as there is rural whites. Right. And that's not the case in Texas. There's huge areas of land filled with rural whites. So you got to kind of figure out how to, how to talk to them. Maybe Trump's helping you a little bit with, you know, his AG policy with the like. Not really. In Texas, the energy prices probably help. It's like the one state where the high energy prices might help, you know, maga, the mood out in West Texas. So it's like, that's like the big challenge for him is like, can he figure out a way to get to the other people in addition to like our people?
- [14:55]
A
I mean, the good news is that maybe gas will be so expensive that some of those voters won't be able to afford to drive to the polls to vote.
- [15:02]
B
Maybe
- [15:05]
A
I don't like to use the word irredeemable very often because as a good Catholic boy, I believe everybody is redeemable.
- [15:12]
B
Me too.
- [15:12]
A
Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior came down to redeem us all from our sins. That's true. He. He belongs to every one of us. That said, this is different than the Cassidy thing where the other people running in that race were just sort of like MAGA tomato cans. The Ken Paxton thing. Paxton is not just like, I'm more right wing than Corin. The whole, his, his value proposition was I'm a criminal. And you like criminals.
- [15:49]
B
Yeah.
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C
I don't know what value proposition was. I love Trump. I love Trump hardest. And like, I will push through his Save act agenda. That's what, that's what kept him in, you remember?
- [16:01]
A
I think, I think, I think his special sauce was the indictments and the crimes.
- [16:06]
B
The save act gambit was pretty good.
- [16:09]
C
Yeah. Endorsing Corgan because that almost happened.
- [16:14]
B
I do, I wish for, just for my own shot in Freuda and like sadomasochistic purposes that, but also for the political science of it that like Trump had endorsed corn in early and then Ken Paxton hadn't gotten out. And it would have been an interesting potential outcome to see how things would have worked in that case. Like, that would have really been the test of your theory of the, of the theories on offer here. Right. Like, is this just a Donald Trump NPC cult or do the MAGA Republican voters want, as Thomas Massey once said, the craziest son of bitch in the race. And, and I think that like, obviously they want both of those things and so Trump made it easy for them. And you know, so, so, so the, you know, kind of question was attested.
- [17:01]
A
Wow. Well, we're going to have all sorts of.
- [17:04]
C
I just, I just saw a question that's worth worth addressing, which is it was why are you. Tao Rico will have a tough time winning when you guys were all just saying recently that Paxton would be the easier one to beat. And that is. Right. The answer is yes, both these things are true of the two Republican candidates. Ken Paxton, you have a better chance of beating him because of the corruption and because there was now a very unpleasant primary where Trump jumped in. And there's a lot of Republicans in the state who hate Ken Paxton because of the corruption. So he is the easier one to beat. That's still, it's still Texas and it is very hard for a Democrat to win in Texas. I'm not saying this might not be the year and not saying that Tal Rico is not running a pretty good campaign. I see. He is, he is very. He's. He's got a good line right now about how he's eating barbecue before. Ken Paxton's first indictment is how he is pushing back on the claims that he's a vegan, which of course doesn't
- [18:07]
B
bode well for a candidate in Texas. Yeah, I don't know. We said that he has a 40% chance. I think that's pretty good for doom and gloom Tim and jvl. You know, look, you go back to Bet the beto. This is the comp right. Like 2018, like we have a straight comp. 2018 was the first Trump midterm, which was a Democratic wave. It was the closest somebody's run in Texas, you know, since Ann Richards, basically statewide. And Beto lost 48 to 51. Basically lost by just under three points. Beto ran a great race. People don't people of memory hold this because he ran two horrific races after that. But like the 2018 race was before, you know, the Vanity Fair profile and before he said he wanted to take all the guns. Like, like his thing was he went to the whole state. Like he spent a ton of time out in rural Texas, like doing Q&As, doing town halls. He was like, he kind of ran as like an earnest Democrat that Democrats liked, but also kind of nonpartisan coded a little bit. Right. Like he ran a really great race and he's running against Ted Cruz, who's about one of the most unappealing people in the world and like has one of the world's most punchable faces. He still lost by three. Ran an almost perfect race in 2018. So now we fast forward. You know, has Texas moved right or left since then? Hard to say. Like it moved. It did start to move a little left in 2020, but then went back right in 2024. A lot of that was the Latino thing. We have a lot of evidence that the Latinos are snapp now. So I think we're probably back to around that baseline, around a 3% race. The question is can, you know, now it's candidate stuff. It's like, is Paxton so bad? You know, like is Paxton's baggage, you know, given his, his, you know, pedo buddy, a sweet sweetheart deal? Is that worse than Cruz? Is he less good? You know, on the campaign trails cruise, can Tellarico overcome, you know, him talking about veganism while wearing a mask? I. We'll see. But you know, you'd have to say that Paxton's a favorite, but it's, it's doable.
- [20:09]
A
Tell you what, if we could do away with the secret ballot and see what the Texas Republicans in the state legislature voting. Talarico wins. Texas state Republican legislators like 90, 10,
- [20:24]
B
60 of them voted to impeach him.
- [20:27]
A
Actual Texas elected Republicans have been trying to kill Paxton for a decade at this point and to get rid of him. The people who know him best hate him. And I don't want to say that the voters are a bunch of mouth breathing rubes, but it does appear like the voters in Texas, it's the Republican
- [20:45]
B
Voters, bunch of mouth breathing rooms. I know we're going to do more Texas. You know it does.
- [20:50]
A
I know Sarah's got her mad face on. She doesn't like that.
- [20:52]
B
Why, why don't you like that?
- [20:54]
C
I, I, I mean, I, I don't know that I have to categorize them exactly like that to say that they wanted the criminal, which I think is exactly true.
- [21:04]
A
While we're here, Chip Roy also lost. Do you guys have thoughts on that
- [21:07]
B
or do we want to just.
- [21:08]
C
Great, that's great. See you, Chip.
- [21:10]
B
Bye. Bye. Chip Roy, don't let the head show or the good lord split you. Yeah, Chip Roy. Chip Roy was one of these ones who is the most annoying in the house because he did the moral high horse stuff about Trump without following through ever. You know, like, he always tried to kind of talk about the principle, the ways in which Trump betrayed principled conservatism, but at the end he always folded like a cheap suit. And so in that sense, he was the most annoying. And he also is, like, very convinced of his own ability to persuade people. I don't know if people know Chip Roy. Should we, for people who don't, Chris, should we pull up a picture of Chip Roy?
- [21:51]
A
It's just pre, bald and goatee or post.
- [21:55]
B
I think we want to see him
- [21:56]
A
because he had a total image makeover when he decided to run for office.
- [22:00]
B
Yeah, the, the, I once wrote an article about Chip Roy called Chip Roy is a Cowardly Goldfish.
- [22:10]
C
He got mad at you about that.
- [22:11]
B
Got so many called me. He tried to talk to me for like an hour and win me over and say that, like, you know, I'm not as bad of a guy. There we go. There we go. Schiffer's wants Ted Cruz's chief of staff. He is out of there. But this was, I guess it was after January 6th. This was in that period right after January 6th. I wrote this February 25th. And Chip Roy was, I guess now with the benefit of five years hindsight, maybe deserves the tiniest little iota of credit that it was, he was trying to move people on, you know, like he was a coward, you know, in January 6th. But like in that period right after, when Kevin McCarthy went down there, he was one of the ones that's kind of like, okay, you know, he started sounding a little bulwarky. You know, he started feeling like, you know, maybe we should just like put this, this guy in the past, you know, after the cap, whole Capitol storming thing and move forward and, and I made fun of him for that. Because I was like, we got a chance to do something about this a month and a half ago, and you. You fucking lost out. And so screw you. You know, he. I guess that take now gets vindicated as well, because he went right back. Took him, what, about four months to get right back on board. Anyway, see you later, Chip. Roy.
- [23:28]
A
Sarah, we have a tweet out by Tellarico. I want to thank Senator Cornyn for his years representing our state. We don't agree on everything, but we both still believe in public service to Senator Cornyn supporters. You have a place in our campaign. Sarah, can I put a focus group request in?
- [23:46]
C
Yep.
- [23:48]
A
Women Cornyn voters. Because I have a feeling that Paxton may be uniquely vulnerable with women, especially married women, especially married women who don't think that husbands should be allowed to do what. What Paxton seems to have done and get away with it. I wonder, do you think there's some gold there for Talarico to convince some of those. Those nice, nice gals to come home?
- [24:15]
C
I think maybe. Well, but again, this is. This is Tim's point, is that it's not just about who. It's about volume. Right. So, yes, do I think that there are some corn and voters, especially like these college educated suburban voters who find Paxton reprehensible. Correctly. But also there's just a lot more of the rural, white, whatever Trump says goes type voters. And, you know, you have to count on an extremely high level of them being pissed off at Trump. Right. An extremely high level of them. What do we want to call it? They are diminished enthusiasm. We want them to have diminished enthusiasm.
- [25:00]
A
Stay home.
- [25:01]
C
But Trump seemed to be able to turn them out for Paxton in this primary. So you.
- [25:07]
B
Just. A little hint of hopium. Can we do a little hint of hopium right now?
- [25:10]
A
Okay. But then we got to move on.
- [25:11]
B
All right, here's some. Here's just a raw number for you. John Cornyn right now is 325,000 votes. When this thing's all done, I'm doing back of the envelope math. He'll have probably somewhere about 450,000 votes, maybe a little more. That's good. Beto lost to Ted Cruz by. It's always dangerous to do live math by basically 210,000 votes. So you're trying to say. You know what I mean? Like, again, this is all, like, there are a lot of other factors at play here, but could there be 200,000 corn and voters for telo? I don't. I. Or I guess it's only 100. You know what I mean? Or if you imagine they voted for Cruz, could there be a hundred thousand Cruz voting Cruz corn and voters are gonna go to tell Rico a hundred thousand to be 20% of his vote? Maybe not. No. Yeah, I got. Okay, this isn't opium.
- [26:02]
A
This is the opposite of hopium.
- [26:03]
B
Tim. Hopium there for you.
- [26:05]
A
This is the, this is the. Oh my gosh. Wait a minute. Even if he gets one of every two corn and voters, he's still pro and runs the bet.
- [26:12]
B
Okay, well, no, with one and two, he's wins. He wins. He wins one and two. He would win with the B number.
- [26:19]
A
Real close.
- [26:19]
B
Would be real close.
- [26:20]
A
Okay, so listen, quick run of show, guys. We have a lot to talk about. It's going to be a, a great show and a long show. We're going to talk about Sarah's incipient campaign and boosterism for Candace Owens as president, which I was frankly shocked by. I feel like it betrayed all the principles of the bull work. Yeah, but we're gonna, we're gonna chop that up together. We're gonna talk a little bit about Iran, little bit about Megyn Kelly who has discovered that Donald Trump is corrupt and that he treated his wives badly. This is shocking news. You guys are going to love it. And, and then we're going to talk a little bit about Graham Plattner and Jake Ostensloss. Stick with us. But first we have to do a quick word from our sponsor. This show is sponsored by upwork. Scaling a business takes the right expertise at the right time. Upwork helps growing teams quickly bring in specialized freelancers so you can move faster and take the business to the next level, so to speak. Upwork is a one stop platform to find, hire and pay expert freelancers across web and software development, data and analytics, marketing, business operations and more. Upwork helps grow your business by giving you fast access to specialized talent across 125 plus categories. So you can fill skill gaps, launch projects faster and and scale support up or down without committing to full time headcount. You can browse profiles, review past work and get help scoping the role so you can hire with confidence and get started quickly. With Business plus, you can access the top 1% of talent on Upwork. With AI powered shortlisting, you'll get matched to the right freelancer in under six hours. No endless searching required. Sarah was just on a podcast that came out today talking about how we started the Bulwark. We've learned so much about what it takes to grow and scale a business I am always telling Sarah, we got to hire more people. We've got to grow faster. Sarah's always saying, hey, slow down.
- [28:15]
C
That's how those go.
- [28:17]
B
That's how.
- [28:17]
A
That's my recollection of those meetings. And nothing is more important than finding the right people to work with. And Upwork can do so much to help you with that. Visit Upwork.com TheNextLevel right now and post your job for free. That is Upwork.com TheNextLevel to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's upwork.com thenextlevel upwork.com thenextlevel JBL I
- [28:51]
B
know you have a show map. I just have a couple of things I saw during the ad read I want to mention. Paxton ends up almost winning Austin, Travis county. There are 12, 500 Paxton voters in Austin. Who are they? I would, I want to get a focus group of them. I'd like to meet the Austin Paxton. They're the Tech Bros. Yeah. Maybe the Cornyn was asked in his concession speech where he looks like a scared cadaver if he still has concerns about Ken Paxton. And he said, I have more to say on that later. So that's intriguing potentially. And a little happy note for you. Thomas Massie posted a pic of himself vacationing with Marjorie Taylor Green in Costa Rica. So you know all your faves getting together.
- [29:39]
A
Where's her?
- [29:40]
B
They're both. Their spouses are both there.
- [29:42]
A
Oh, okay. Okay.
- [29:47]
B
No keys in sight.
- [29:48]
A
Are they at one of those swingers resorts?
- [29:51]
B
I don't. I said no. I don't know.
- [29:52]
A
Is that a thing that they. Was there an upside down pineapple?
- [29:56]
B
I don't see one in this photo.
- [29:57]
A
That's. Don't. Don't make us explain that to Sarah. Okay. So Sarah published an outstanding piece yesterday saying people may be sleeping on the idea that Candace, Candace could run for president because in, in focus groups that she's been doing for years now, she is a name that just comes up organically all the time and that she is sort of breaking out of just normal Republican obsessive silos and becoming sort of mainstream. And in the same way that I said Graham Platner should he beat Susan Collins like a drum, sort of becomes a contender to be win the Democratic nomination. This means that you want Candace Owens to be president. And I would like you to defend yourself for before Sarah defense. How could you possibly have done this
- [30:54]
B
before Sarah defends herself? I just do want to say as soon as I saw the article get posted on the site. I was like, sarah's a glutton for punishment because we know exactly what people are going to say about this article. And then number two, I just, nobody has ever in one of Sarah's focus groups meant thrown out my name as a potential person they're looking at for president. And so I do just want to say to bolt work listeners, if you're ever in a focus group and people like any other names out there that you're looking at for teachers, 20, 28, maybe float me. I'm not going to run. But it's nice to be wanted. It's nice to be floated. It's, it's a little, you know, it hurts my ego a little bit how many times Candace has gotten mentioned.
- [31:31]
C
Yeah. Okay, so first of all, Tim, you also wrote a president Candace piece which somebody resurfaced. And I think it could be our editors have a slight penchant for throwing titles on about the, the floating of these names for president because I don't think that Candace Owens is going to run for president. This piece.
- [31:55]
A
You just think she should be president?
- [31:57]
C
No, this is, this was a piece about the fact that voters do organically unprompted and have for years thrown her out there as somebody that they like, especially women. Often part of what has been interesting in more recent. So she's been coming up in focus groups for years. There's a whole bunch of people, I mean, whole bunch of people. There are some people on Twitter who say things like, you know, oh, you got one lunatic focus groups. And I'm like, I actually run three lunatic focus groups a week. A week. Listen to voters across the political spectrum all the time. And they just, people raise Candace Owens as like a fun, kicky choice. And I think that that is not evidence of Candace Owens likelihood of becoming president. I do think it is evidence of Candace Owens increasing cultural power. And I just want to say for people who really dismiss the idea that there is like some of these really weirdo podcaster types could end up as contenders of some kind. And I don't mean Candace here specifically, but let's say Tucker, who also comes up in the groups, Donald Trump is the president. Donald Trump was a game show host who had bankrupted a bunch of businesses, who lived on Page Six, had a bunch of marriages. He was a cultural figure who had a parasocial relationship with voters. And I'm sorry, but it is not that weird. It's like people have something in their brains that say, well, well, obviously Candace is too crazy for anybody to think of as a political figure. And I'm like, no, she's not. Not in the world we're living in now. And Tucker gets brought up all the time. Megan Kelly gets brought up like there is a. And. And this is important. And you know, I saved this for a second piece and I regretted it because it, it would have rounded out the analysis. Not that the people who are mad about this read the story, right. They just got mad at the title and whatever. But there is an. And I'm going to elaborate on something I've been talking about, which is that there is an America first section of the party that is also Israel Worst. So the America First, Israel Worst, which is Tucker, which is, which is Candace, which is a little bit Megan, they are forming a real bloc and they are all increasingly critical of Donald Trump. And there is real juice in that wing. And the other thing that is interesting to me is the America First Israel Worst is kind of part of the horseshoe, right? There is a, A section of. Because this is what the piece is really about is that she's been coming up for years. But there is not just an increase in mentions of her but, but more. Not bipartisan. Exactly, because it's not lots of Dems. Dems. But it is more independence who are. And more just like non political people who listen to her for her conspiracy stuff. And so it is, it is a testament to the fact that there is a new generation of that that are, that are legacies of Donald Trump. Like Donald Trump like unleashed this on our politics and here we are. And like the political set in D.C. who wants to, like the magazine set, who wants to say, how dare you guys, like raise this or talk about it. I'm like, I wish somebody. The reason I started doing focus groups in the first place was because we all missed the phenomenon of Trump. And so when I hear these things bubble up and you know, nobody got mad at me when I said recently, Marco Rubio is really coming up in the groups in a new way. Everybody was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that sounds right. And I'm like, okay, so you liked that take. But of course, shortly after I started sounding that and mentioning it, a few weeks later, you started to see it in the polls. You started to see Rubio leading over Vance in a number of polls. And so I just, I'm just saying that it's in there and it is a reflection of something that's happening in our politics.
- [35:59]
B
I agree with all that. And I don't think that you in any way want Candace Owens to be president. Sarah, I absolve you.
- [36:04]
C
I sure don't.
- [36:06]
B
I. I'm a little upset. I know what it feels like to be JBL right now. That you did not read or recall my seminal 2023 work about President Candace. And the case I was looking there was pretty similar to the things that you just laid out. But I just want to add one other layer to it that you kind of got at, but more particular. Candace, if you. Now, she talks a lot about conspiracy theories, but like she always does. Right. But when I was writing this piece in 2023, she was doing a little bit of conspiracy theory, a little bit of like just celebrity hot takes and gossip, a little bit of mommy blogging, you know, and a dabble of politics. Right. And it made for like an interesting show. Like before she started, like, you know, doing six part series on Brigitte Macron's dick. Like, that was part of my maga, like listening, you know, part of the stuff that I listened to because it was like more appealing to listen to than like Charlie Kirk show RIP or like Patrick Beth Davis because like they just talk about politics and I just get bored. Like, I like, I know what you're going to fucking say. You know what I mean? This isn't useful to me. And so you could see why people could engage with her and like, that was Trump.
- [37:21]
A
Right.
- [37:21]
B
Like, how did Trump.
- [37:22]
A
The Trump playbook.
- [37:24]
B
Right?
- [37:25]
A
Yeah.
- [37:25]
B
And like the mega Howard Stern tweeting
- [37:28]
A
about the Twilight Kids. Yeah.
- [37:30]
B
And the MAGA policy platform, like the Project 2025 platform is just not that popular. Right. And that's why I don't. I think a lot of. I think pretty much, if you ask anybody, do you think if we reran this waste with Ron desanctimonius Kamala, maybe he wins, but probably closer. Right? Like, that seems like a less scary competition. Right. Because he is just, he was just running on like the MAGA platform. And the MAGA platform is less popular than this kind of like broader, you know, MAGA America first, like a culture war, you know, so, you know, some soft focus stuff. Trump's always like a little tongue in cheek. A lot of times she's kind of tongue in cheek sometimes. And so, you know, so anyway, I also don't think that she's going to be the president, but the people that dismiss that and think that it's really just going to be a race between a senator and another. My response to that is, where have you been the last 16 years? 18 years.
- [38:31]
A
I mean, I can think of one senator on the Republican side Who might be interesting. Can we. Chris, can we have that tweet?
- [38:42]
B
Is she in this?
- [38:43]
A
Ken Paxton does Ken Paxton. Is his scandal life enough to break him out of the. He's just another politician mode? Because here's the thing. I actually wonder if. If I was. She looks great. Looks great. The gloves, the hair. I love. God love her.
- [39:05]
B
Good for.
- [39:05]
A
Good for you, Roseanne.
- [39:06]
C
She was also hanging out with rfk, as you recall. She's the one he broke the bear. I buried the bear in Central park story.
- [39:14]
A
Yeah. Well, she's. She's a health nut. You could tell she's lived a very healthy life. No, I think Paxton could. Could fill that.
- [39:22]
B
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- [40:07]
A
Okay, moving on. Because we do have a lot we're trying to get out of here in under three hours.
- [40:13]
B
Tonight I want to see the fourth quarter of the western conference finals if possible.
- [40:18]
A
So we're going to do this very quickly with Iran because it is the most important story.
- [40:24]
B
Sorry. I was still. I had to. To take a break. I was getting ready for John Lovett's wedding. Mazel tov to John and Ari. And I had to stop putting on my tuxedo and put instead on irregular shirt and get into my. Get onto a live stream in my dirty hotel room to discuss the end of the war in Iran because we pro that we were promised that all the leaders in the Middle east have gotten on a phone call.
- [40:49]
A
Yeah.
- [40:49]
B
With Trump and they had basically had a deal. They were 2% away. You know, they're on the 2 yard line. And the war was over. Is that not so we can stop talking about it now. Right.
- [41:00]
C
Then we started. Then we did some bombs just, just to. Just to tie it up with a bow. We started bombing.
- [41:07]
A
You know, writing. You want to loop your conclusion back up to the intro.
- [41:11]
B
And how do the defensive bombs work in the. In the water in the south of Iran which what were. What were we defending our position?
- [41:19]
C
I think they were putting. They were putting more mines down, so we were blowing up the mine boats.
- [41:24]
B
Now why would they be putting mines down? Was over.
- [41:27]
C
It's a great question. So you're making great points. Why. This is. What I do not understand is why do the markets. Like, why did you even get on for a live stream about that? Who believes that Trump is negotiating an end to this?
- [41:43]
B
Some of the listeners are going to be very happy with you right now because that was some feedback that we were getting that day. You know, I don't. Again, I think that we had an appropriate amount of skepticism that we were offering about how this was ever going to actually end. But this is the situation that we're in. It's like, I don't know, like the President of the United States, the leader of like multiple Arab countries were all talking to reporters, all saying that they had a deal and the war was over. So, I mean, we can talk about that discussion, I guess.
- [42:17]
C
No, no, no, but that was that before or after Trump was like, and you all have to join the Abraham Accords before that?
- [42:22]
B
And they were all like, like, what are we supposed to do? Just not.
- [42:26]
C
I know.
- [42:26]
B
I guess not say that. That happens. I hear you, though. Every time.
- [42:30]
C
Every time I see Barack Raviv at Axios posed a story, I'm like, well, this isn't true.
- [42:35]
B
Like, he's gonna be right eventually. And I just. We just missed it.
- [42:39]
A
How does that guy look at himself? It's a weird thing to do. Stenography, like fully straight like that and not be humiliated.
- [42:52]
C
You and Scott Jennings can also do this. Scott Jennings, who is wrong every. They just use. Why is Scott Jennings not embarrassed to be used as a mouthpiece for the regime that then always makes him look like an idiot?
- [43:04]
B
I know he's a reporter, you know, but. But you know what he did. This is even embarrassing for pundits. Like, I would not even do this, you know, like. Like there would be. I don't know why I said even I have fucking dignity. I have an integrity. I. None of us would do this. I posted this. This was like, I'm on. I'm flying home, I'm at the airport, whatever scrolling. All these posts are all within two minutes of each other. I guess they have a phone call with like just the really. The really. The big, you know, the big swinging dicks over there in MAGA world. It's Clay Travis. Former sports blogger Andrew Colvette is now
- [43:38]
A
taking over TP and Epidemiologist right?
- [43:40]
B
Was that. Yeah, he was, he was key on that. You know, he was like, he was like, it would be a disaster if we had 1,000 deaths and we had a million deaths from COVID Then he was like, not a big deal, you know, interest, strange. And then Scott Jennings, many others. But these three guys, they all post the same thing on Twitter. It's like siren. After receiving a briefing from a senior administration official. Jared, I can tell you the following. And it's like listing all these things. Iran is not going to get any money until we see the dust, like the war. All these things you're reading on Twitter are wrong. Like, they all wrote these like interminably long tweets that are all the same. Like. So on the call, they must have been telling them exactly. Or they emailed them afterwards exactly what to say. You would think there'd be a little bit of shame in the game, you know.
- [44:29]
C
No, I mean, Scott Jennings goes on CNN every night and shames himself on national television. So what's a tweet?
- [44:37]
B
Jvl, you're the predictor. What, what is. What's gonna happen? Like, where are we?
- [44:41]
A
What I have, I have no idea. I, I mean, if I was Roll Castro, I'd be real scared right now looking at all this. Because, I mean, I, I just think,
- [44:55]
B
I don't even know where he is.
- [44:56]
C
He's 93 years old.
- [44:58]
B
This is like the guy rolls like the guy with the, with the doorbell on his wheelchair and Breaking Bad.
- [45:07]
C
I know we don't want to talk about Iran, but. Jbl, let me just ask you one thing.
- [45:11]
A
Yeah, go ahead.
- [45:11]
C
Do you think that Iran, because this is the current deal, the current deal they're trying to talk about is a 60 day pause, right, While they negotiate. But in the meantime, Iran is supposed to open up the strait, right, and not charge any. You think that this, that Iran is going to give up its leverage over the Strait of Hormuz? You think that there's any nuclear deal that they're gonna. That, like, why, why would they do anything now? The only to me, I'm sorry, but it's just the prediction to me, there is only one way out of this and that it is. Trump walks away from Netanyahu and says like, sorry, you could deal with Lebanon on your own and Hezbollah and whatever, and tries to spin it like it's a victory. The same thing as always. There's no other way out.
- [46:00]
A
They've given us assurances they have new leadership there. They're great. They're very strong. We got along. We had some tremendous conversations and they, they have double secret promise that they are never going to do nuclear again. And, and so we are, we're not giving them money. We're just releasing money that they already had that was rightfully theirs, honestly. And sleepy Joe Biden was the one who kept it from. And, and that was a travesty and a sham. And, and they're gonna. The dust is gone. They have assured us that they have scattered the dust, the nuclear dust we like to call it. That's gone. And, and it was a tremendous success.
- [46:42]
B
Here's the problem with us onto Cuba. I agree that that's what he's got. He's already trying to do that though. There's a reason why that's not working is like that There are unlike the, the election fraud stuff and all these other Trump nonsenses, like there are people that care about this and that's why they got on that call and called the MAGA people and were like, no, we're not giving them money. There are people around MAGA that do care about this issue. Some, there are plenty of hacks too. But there's some people that care about the substance of this issue. A lot of them obviously are really interested in Israel. Some of them are just longtime hawks. And then Trump himself doesn't want people to say that his deal is worse than Obama's. That's what he cares about, his own ego. And so it makes it very challenging to just pay them off, which would be the easiest way out of this. Pay him off. Right. Like pay him off and just move on and call it a victory. It makes it more challenging than some of his other deals. And so I don't want to sound
- [47:33]
A
like Candace do it, but don't.
- [47:38]
B
Actually, actually I did that don't sound like.
- [47:41]
A
Never mind.
- [47:43]
B
I will say on my predictions, you know, we saw all the Dave Rubin wrong predictions about the Iran war and everybody else predictions. I'm going to keep saying this so people can keep clipping on every show. I think that the, the market is and the economic indicators continue to underreact to this. And I think that in Labor Day, I think that at Labor Day people are going to be like, holy fuck. Like we're in real, we're in really bad straits on when it comes to energy, food prices and associated things because this thing doesn't seem like they were putting mines in the street. What fucking insurance company is going to be. Insurance is going to be insuring the boats to go through the straight next month. We'll see.
- [48:21]
A
Did you see Kevin Hassett talking about how inflation actually disproved the consumer confidence numbers?
- [48:27]
B
Yes.
- [48:29]
A
Kevin Hassett goes, yes, they are spending more money on gas, but they're spending more money on lots of other things, too. And so that shows that consumers do have a lot of confidence.
- [48:39]
C
He's underrated as one of the stupidest people that they put out on tv. He's incredible.
- [48:48]
A
You guys remember my giant takedown of him? Okay, thank you. I appreciate that. Moving down the map.
- [49:00]
B
Mexico.
- [49:01]
A
No. Very funny. Megan Kelly has decided to leave the reservation.
- [49:12]
B
Just followed me on Twitter this week. What's up?
- [49:14]
A
She guested on a podcast I've never heard of.
- [49:18]
B
And you don't know these guys?
- [49:21]
A
I don't.
- [49:22]
B
What are they called? The Doge Bros. The.
- [49:24]
A
The something something Twins.
- [49:26]
B
Let's. Let's.
- [49:26]
C
We got to go to Hot Kiss Twins.
- [49:29]
A
Hotchkiss. I don't think Hotchkiss. That's a different thing.
- [49:32]
B
Hodgkin's disease. The Hotchkiss. I've watched them.
- [49:35]
A
That's Hodgkin's. That's not really lymphoma you're thinking of. Hodgkin's is the fancy prep school.
- [49:40]
C
I'm just pretty sure I'm in the ballpark with the name.
- [49:43]
B
You're in the ballpark. They're really dumb, Chris. Let's.
- [49:47]
A
Let's go to the tape. We'll do the first one and then we'll do the. The wife stuff. We'll do corruption first.
- [49:53]
D
I didn't expect the corruption to be quite as, you know, widespread as it's been. And like the self dealing and the lining of his and his family, that's been a little shocking. Talking billions of dollars expect Trump to be so disrespectful of his base.
- [50:10]
B
Right, right. Well, you know what, Megan? I gotta push back a little bit because, you know, you know, Trump didn't take a salary while he's. Why he's president, so I don't know what you're talking about. Right.
- [50:23]
D
I mean, you look at, like, across the board of the Trump family. I've never seen a family get so, so rich off of a presidency.
- [50:28]
B
Right, right.
- [50:29]
D
And it happened at the same time as we now have a Supreme Court ruling that basically says any official act he takes while in the White House is protected.
- [50:36]
B
Right.
- [50:36]
D
And those two things are, you know, seem to be giving him some sort of a hall pass that could very much get abused about a glass house. I mean, Trump cheated on every White House.
- [50:51]
A
Let's do the first one first. Yeah.
- [50:54]
B
Because they're meaningfully different clips for me, the whole twins.
- [50:57]
A
She's got TDS there.
- [50:59]
B
Yeah. It's kind of like Supreme Court, and she doesn't sound like she has tds. My critique of Megan is, like, she doesn't always seem mad about it. And you watch her clips talking about Hunter Biden, and she's, like, frothing at the mouth, so you can tell she's. It's kind of like more in sadness than an anger that this is happening a little bit for Megan, and I'd like to like to see her get her hackles up a little bit. But this is important. You know, the Hodge guys whose names we couldn't remember are like. Like the new diamond and silk. This is not. This is. This is pretty.
- [51:30]
C
Yeah.
- [51:30]
B
The rip to both, I think just one. Still be with us. And then. And. And the other thing is, I don't know if you watched any of the Glenn Greenwald jubilees surrounded by. I'm sorry. Yeah, okay. I hear you.
- [51:48]
A
Trust me, I'm interested to hear about it.
- [51:51]
B
Yeah.
- [51:51]
A
I just couldn't watch that guy.
- [51:53]
B
I know. I'm out here just.
- [51:55]
C
Well, Megyn Kelly had big praise for Glenn Greenwald because they're part of the. They're part of the America First, Israel, Worst Horseshoe guys.
- [52:04]
B
The Greenwald. The part on corruption was pretty interesting because the people that he was debating, you know, there were some of them that are just like, whatever hacks, MAGA cults. And it's just like, they won't believe any facts that you say to them, and so it's kind of pointless to talk to them.
- [52:22]
A
Greenwald is also a MAGA guy.
- [52:24]
B
I know, but in this case, he was arguing with Magas. He was talking basically about the areas in which he disagrees with maga. I was like, corruption was one. There were like, two. Basically foreign. There's an Iran and Israel 1. I didn't watch the whole thing, but the. On the corruption one, some of the people we talked to just didn't, like, they were just unaware of this information, like the crypto fraud and, like, you know what I mean? This was like the Kushner Saudi thing. This was new data, brand new information. Yeah. They're like, huh? And so, you know, that is why I just want to look at Megan and say, keep going, girl. Keep at it. You know, whatever you're doing to make changes in your life, stick with it. Because I don't know how else you reach these people, you know, without it getting so bad that the small handful of Maga grifters that do feel like they have to look themselves in the mirror at night, like feel like they need to mention it in order to, you know, not totally shame themselves in front of their children. And so we'll take what we can get. That's my take on that clip.
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C
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C
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D
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C
Download the Instacart app and shop today. Sarah I thought it was telling that she opened it by saying it's more corrupt than I thought it would be, meaning I knew there'd be some corruption, but it's really off the charts, which I don't know what an admission. And then it's more of like it is the and this is where Marjorie Taylor Greene and Massie and it's all this Trump disappointment syndrome that they're talking about their own version of tds, which is the more in sorrow than in anger. Trump Trump abandoned the base. He promised America first and he's not doing America first. And this is where the war in Iran really sealed the deal with a lot of these folks. And you know, it doesn't matter. Like there's obviously people's feelings about Israel right now are lots of people are mad at Israel, including most of the people on this podcast now in terms of the way it's behaved. We are also very mad at America and the way that we're behaving because we are currently behaving like lunatics and so is Israel. But the there is a, a different type of, of sort of coalition emerging in these in this group of people. And it is that that new version of TDS and they are breaking with Trump really publicly. And it is part of a broader movement that I think does bring together some of the left and right, the far left and the far right. And this is why Glenn Greenwald arguing with MAGA people, I was like, what are they going to even argue about? They're like basically on the same side. But he only had a couple issues.
- [56:14]
B
Yeah. And going back to the Texas Senate stuff, you know, we can all wish this was not the case. But that person is a key. Is a pretty. Is a key demo also for Tellariko. Right. Like not as engaged horseshoe person like Talarico's got to figure out a way to win some of them from Paxton and so use Israel as a wedge issue. He might need to honestly, like, I don't, you know, I think it's going to be challenging about how to figure out exactly how to do it. But, but I think that, that, you know, that's not the make or break group. But I just think if you look at kind of the buckets for him, you know, our people are kind of the easiest really. And then it's, you know, like the former of the Romney whatever, you know, like a lot of those voters have already voted for Democrats a few times, you know, and that's like the Hispanic voters, this horseshoe crowd and, and then you know, kind of taking down the, damping down the turnout. That's, that's the path.
- [57:10]
C
I actually think there's an easy, like, I, I think people sometimes overthink Israel as an issue because they, you know, it's, it's, it's sort of fraught in the culture in terms of how you talk about it. But if you're just straightforward and say that he's very Christian and he can talk about his great love and religious fidelity that he feels with Jews and even with Israel wanting a homeland, however, that their behavior and Netanyahu's behavior is unconscionable. Like, I mean it is not that hard actually.
- [57:39]
B
We need to have a check it clearly. Yeah, yeah, we have a check on it. I can't, you know, America can't continue to get brought into quagmires because of it and we're losing Americans. We gotta, you know, honestly, I think
- [57:49]
C
that is, that is the answer for at least part of how Democrats start to claw back some of their coalition.
- [57:57]
A
Okay.
- [57:58]
C
I know Israel isn't Christian person in the chat. That's not the point.
- [58:01]
A
There's brings us to clip Number two, everybody else who has not listened to this, we need to do.
- [58:09]
B
Sarah starts gonna. Doing the Nick Fuentes thing where you start yelling at Bulwark fans, you know, and it's. It's a pretty good bit that he does where he starts yelling at his stupid Roy profilers. It's like you're wrong and ugly and stupid for making that comment. We could incorporate that into the tnl.
- [58:26]
A
Everybody buckle your chin straps. Listen to what Meghan has to say about Donald Trump.
- [58:30]
D
And women talk about a glass house. I mean, Trump has cheated on every wife he's had. He met Marla Maples while he was still married to the mother of his children, Ivana. It was all over the New York papers. I'm from New York, upstate New York, but I was in New York when this all went down the city. And he was like, being touted like he was proud of the affair. It was all over the papers, so. And by the way, Ivana, his first wife, accused him of raping her that she alleged in her first book that he was so angry over the hair transplant he got that she made him get. It was so painful that he raped her. And she later retracted that when he ran for president. But that stood on the books for some time. I don't know whether that's true or not. I'm just saying. Clearly not a great relationship there.
- [59:23]
B
Right, Right.
- [59:23]
D
And then he winds up with Melania and, you know, if you think Trump's been faithful to Melania, okay, that's great. You got bigger issues than I can solve here. But so the nerve, like, the nerve to act for him to be judging somebody else's marriage or love, relationships or choices, it just shows you, like, he's got chutzpah, I guess is the word for it. Like beyond. And it was really inappropriate. And it was. It was wrong. It was. What he said was wrong on many levels.
- [59:56]
B
Talk about chutzpah. Beyond chutzpah. Like in Kelly, I don't. I don't really have any. This is just making me mad at her and I'm trying to encourage her, so whatever. Give me a break.
- [60:07]
C
I just love going deep on Marla Maples. Like, this is brand new information.
- [60:12]
B
Could.
- [60:13]
C
Who knew this when he was running?
- [60:15]
A
Did you guys know that his wife said that she. He raped her?
- [60:20]
C
In fact, we all did. I love. It is. It is amazing. But Tim's right to some degree that, like, this is a fun version of Megan. Like, I don't want to get. This is where I want to make a clear Distinction. People get in very stupid idea fights about like, should this person be in the coalition and should this person be in the coalition? Megyn Kelly doesn't want to be in your coalition and neither does Marjorie Taylor Greene. But if they want to be in coalition together, shitting on Donald Trump, hands off.
- [60:49]
B
Okay, go for it, ladies. Great. Okay.
- [60:56]
A
Coming up on our three here on our live stream, I've got some other
- [61:01]
B
elections results I want to get to too.
- [61:02]
A
Paxton. Paxton schlonged Cornyn. But before we get to that, we have to do. God help us, more Graham Platner discourse.
- [61:12]
B
Yeah, I demand.
- [61:14]
A
You demanded. Do you want to set the table? I'll let you run this segment, Tim.
- [61:17]
B
Sure. Jake Auchincloss, who I like, Democratic congressman from Massachusetts, generally moderate guy, younger guy, though, has been pretty, has been really strong on Trump stuff. Good messenger goes into, like, it's a little less crazy. He's kind of like a poor man's Pete going into, you know, right wing circles and he can kind of argue on that. That's not, that's not an insult. Pete's the top of the, you know, top of the ticket on going into right wing areas and, and, you know, taking on the, the commentators. So Occan Clause has done that a few times.
- [61:55]
C
Sorry, I was just doing that for Pete. I was just making it hard for Pete.
- [61:58]
B
Okay. I thought, I thought you were in the triangle of doom and I got distracted. Okay. So that's Jake. He is on cnn and for some reason, Ike says that Glenn Pattner, Graham Platner's Nazi tattoo is disqualifying and that he hopes the people of Maine agree with him. And so obviously people start going crazy because it's like, that's an endorsement of Susan Collins. Like, the race is, there's no primary. The race is over. And so he puts out a tweet today that basically is like, I don't like Susan Collins. I don't want any, you know, I don't want anybody that's going to be a rubber stamp on Trump. You know, that said, the primary is not over because it technically hasn't happened yet. But so I hope the people of Maine come to their senses or something. I don't have in front of me. That was the gist of the tweet. And it's just like, what are you doing, bro? Like, what are you, like, what are you doing? And I don't, I can understand having concerns about Platner expressing them, saying, hey, the primary is not over. Maybe, you know, more stuff might come out of him. There is. There are rumors circulating about Platner that go around about other things that might come. Come out. I have no idea what is true and what is not. So he is a little bit of an untested choice. And so I could go out there and say, hey, Janet Mills dropped out. The primary isn't over. It's hopeless at this point. But. But that would be one thing. But to kind of like imply that he is disqualified based on the stuff that he did 15 years ago, like, when the choices between him and Susan Collins, to me, is crazy as like a Democrat, like, totally crazy. And it's especially crazy when you think about it in the context of this is a Senate race, so this is not to absolve platinum or anything. We'll see how Graham Platner turns out. He could turn out to be a Fetterman. He couldn't turn out to be a great senator. He could turn out to be a liberal crank that I don't agree with on a lot of stuff. I don't know. But one senator out of 100 can do damage. We saw it with Fetterman, we've seen it with Republican senators. But comparing that to giving Donald Trump a majority in the Senate to rubber stamp his cabinet, to rubber stamp another Supreme Court justice, to rubber stamp other justices, you have to make a pretty damn strong case to me that the other choice is that unacceptable, that whatever they would do as one senator out of 100 would be worse than letting the fucking Republicans rubber stamp whatever Donald Trump was in the last two years. Who the hell knows what Donald Trump's gonna do at the end of his term when he's 8,000 years old and he's trying to steal the election again in 2028? Like, that's the situation that we're in right now. And I'm all down for criticizing people or whatever, but we gotta live in reality. And so I thought it was a huge mistake by Jake. And I have an additional rant that's related, but I don't know if you guys. If you guys react to that.
- [64:55]
C
I haven't. I have a demi rant on this that that's a little bit similar, which is if you think, and I assume Jake Ochen Kloss thinks this, that Donald Trump is a threat to the American order of things that we. That it is. That he is not. I mean, people overuse the term existential threat, but I believe he is an existential threat. And I believe that Susan Collins, while knowing better, has continued to facilitate that threat. I believe we are sliding into a more authoritarian form of government and that Susan Collins has aided and abetted that. And so I don't understand why the congressman, if I understand, look, Graham Platner is not my cup of tea. And. But like Susan Collins has been, if you believe that she is facilitating this right, then you need her defeated. And if Graham Platner turns out to be an. I have not seen evidence that Graham Platner is an actual Nazi. I have seen evidence that he was. And, and listen, more stuff might come out about him that is horrific. And this is why I don't have to. This is why I don't understand why Jake didn't do it in reverse. Because you don't have to heap praise on Grant Blattner to say Susan Collins has to be defeated. And like, end of story, Thumbtack presents uncertainty strikes. I was surrounded the aisle and the options were closing in. There were paint rollers, satin and matte
- [66:29]
D
finish, angle brushes and natural bristles.
- [66:31]
C
There were too many choices. What if I never got my living room painted? What if I couldn't figure out what
- [66:36]
D
type of paint to use?
- [66:37]
B
What if I just used thumbtack?
- [66:40]
C
I can hire a top rated pro that knows everything about interior paint, easily compare prices and read reviews.
- [66:47]
B
Thumbtack knows homes.
- [66:48]
C
Download the app today.
- [66:50]
B
And I just want to add, this is a particularly stark case because everybody knows the characters and it's a Senate race. But I have that same kind of animosity from people from in situations where it is the inverse, where it is the Platner side of the, of the Democratic Party that, like, refuses to get on board for more moderate candidates. And there's just this example of Nebraska I've been dying to bring up, where there is whatever you want to call it, like a lefty, populist type candidate who was a Twitter troll. And I say this, by the way, I'm a Twitter troll, okay? I have a very unhealthy Twitter habit. If you have a worse Twitter habit than me, that's something that you need to probably reflect on personally. This young man has a worse Twitter habit than me. He returns to Nebraska. His name's Austin Allman. He put out this beautiful video. It's a launch video. It's life story. It's quite interesting. The video is great. People could learn from it as a video. People can go watch that if you want. Maybe you saw it on social media. It was going around. But he went to Nebraska to run in this seat, Nebraska one that's like a stretch seat. For Democrats, but it's like winnable in the House in a wave here. You know, it's not like A, an R plus 40 seat. You know, it's like an R. It's like that. Excerpts of Lincoln, I think, or. And you know, so you get some of the college town. It's like, it's a stretch seat, but it's one that Democrats seem to be competing in. There was already a primary. The Democrats had a primary, a mainstream Democrat one. It's a person from Nebraska. And like now we're in the race and then this like lefty populist, you know, who is in your America first Israel, worst horseshoe. Part of a camp says, well no, we actually need a working class, socialist, left wing populace to run if we're going to win in Nebraska. And so I'm going to enter. And so now you're Jill Stein. Like now you're a spoiler, right? And it's just like if you wanted to make that case that that's what the people of Nebraska needed, you could have gotten to the primary or you could have done what like Dan Osborne did or this guy in Montana or there are other examples where it's like you work with the Democratic Party and say, hey, I'm going to run as an independent because we might have a better chance here. There are things to do. But I, it's just, to me it's just like in the moment right now where the, with the threat that we have for the mag. Authoritarian movement, like these stupid games that people are playing about this factional fighting on the other side, it's just gonna drive me up the wall. So anyway, that's my final take on
- [69:11]
C
it also, you know, I do, I think, look again, if there's other stuff that comes out about Platner, I will certainly consider it. But I will tell you that the people who want to say that, you know, Platner X, Y and Z, this is why, you know, you. Nobody should, you know, you shouldn't whatever, not do what Jake did, right? There's a lot of people who don't want to bait you into doing what, what Austin Claus did. Think they'll do that to Ken Paxton in the general here? Think they will. I'm sure they'll be, I bet they won't.
- [69:46]
B
I'm sure a ton of, of conservative writers and commentators that are Collins, Talarico out there. I'm sure we'll see a lot of that, you know, over, over at the National Review.
- [69:56]
C
And also I also every single one of these guys Supported Trump like they. Or. Or they have carried water for him or this. So, like, Shut up, shut up, shut up.
- [70:09]
B
Maybe we should listen to that advice. Jbl, what do you think about that?
- [70:12]
A
I think that all sounds great.
- [70:15]
B
Do you ever rant about any topics you want to get off your chest?
- [70:18]
A
I. You know, I. I'm a little more live and let live on this than you guys are. Like, if.
- [70:26]
B
Jake.
- [70:27]
A
Look, Jake Austin class does not live in Maine, but it's free country, brother. And if he thinks it's disqualifying, then he's allowed to think that. And.
- [70:38]
B
And I'm not. I'm not trying to silence him, everybody.
- [70:41]
A
No, no, I'm saying
- [70:45]
B
Hunter Biden said he was getting silenced. APAC said they were getting silenced.
- [70:49]
A
No, no, I just met with his flip. Like, I don't know, like, he's entitled to think.
- [70:53]
C
Nobody's getting silenced anymore, guys. The Internet is free. You can.
- [70:56]
A
That's right. We can say it.
- [70:57]
C
You're Nick Fuentes. You are an actual white nationalist supremacist, and you can have a very thriving podcast. Nobody is silent.
- [71:06]
B
Yeah, I'm just saying I think your take is stupid. My take? No, Jake.
- [71:12]
A
Oh, Jake.
- [71:12]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate your free country, brother.
- [71:17]
A
Yeah, I. Yeah, like, it's, you know, like, you guys, I am open to the idea that we're going to learn some horrible things about Graham Platner. That is planner's position right now, though. Is not. Yes, I said those things, and let me tell you why I still believe them. Because they're all terrible and because I believe. Which is basically. That is the difference with Trump. Right? I mean, Trump was like, of course we celebrate. You have to.
- [71:49]
C
Paxton, it's not. Sorry.
- [71:50]
A
Right. You have to rough people up, you have to beat up people. You got to meet things with strength, all that stuff. The Platner's position is, like, I said a bunch of terrible things, and I don't believe that. And I'm sorry. Now, maybe he's sincere, maybe he's not, but he isn't running on, like, that's. This.
- [72:08]
B
Yeah.
- [72:08]
A
And may. Maybe what we'll find out is that actually he's lying about it and he's. He. He secretly. He says all those same things right now, and that would be very bad. Yeah, I don't think so either. But I'm saying, like, that's the. These are really apples and oranges.
- [72:22]
B
Okay.
- [72:24]
A
We are gonna have to bring the show to a close at some point before we get out of here. Did you have more Texas thoughts? We are holding steady at. No, I'm sorry, we're not holding steady. Ken Paxton has stretched his lead out another percentage point. He's now up to 64.36.
- [72:44]
C
Wow.
- [72:46]
B
So it is pretty crazy. Just about I made this point as an aside but that obviously it's, it's a statewide versus one district etc, but like that Massie is going to end up being like 10 points better than Cornyn while running. You know, he also ran ads about how he's an extreme freak on trans issues and whatever but like right wing culture warrior and a bunch of stuff. But like on a few core issues he said, I disagree with you, Mr. Trump. You are wrong. And I'm going to continue campaigning on those issues and I'm not buckling and I'm not going to do the please sir, will you endorse me, sir thing. And Cornyn did not do that. Cornyn didn't really distance himself from Trump on anything and did and begged Trump to support him and yet still ends up getting 10 points worse. That is pretty cuckish.
- [73:32]
A
Texas is in theory a more purplish state than Kentucky or that certainly that district in Kentucky. That's the other thing here.
- [73:42]
C
Right.
- [73:42]
A
I mean this is. These voters should be more like normie Republicans than the Massey district Republican voters were.
- [73:50]
B
Shows you the lane for the American first side. The other race I just wanted to mention in Texas that's happening is because I interviewed the guy as Johnny Garcia in Texas 35. He was kind of. There are two more I want to mention actually. He's a normie cop, middle of the road, Hispanic Dem. He was running against Maureen Galindo who ran on wanting to put Jew Zionists into camps.
- [74:17]
A
Tell me more.
- [74:18]
B
So that, that just as a, just as a notional example seems like a pretty key difference with Platner. Right.
- [74:23]
C
So I don't endorse her. Do not endorse her.
- [74:28]
B
Yeah, she has. She has a policy platform that says I want to put Zionists into camps. Platner.
- [74:36]
A
No, she also had the tattoo. I'd be more concerned about it.
- [74:40]
B
Yeah, same. And so I had Garcia on because I want to give him a little attention before this runoff is pretty concerning. Still. He won. So that's great. Everybody can breathe a silent relief. The lady, the camps lady did get percent in the 40%. So that's a little alarming. What.
- [74:59]
A
What is that district?
- [75:00]
B
Small plus it's San Antonio excerpts. I don't know what the D plus is. And it is. And I mean she only has 5000 votes and it's a small turnout but.
- [75:12]
A
All right.
- [75:13]
B
Anyway. Question. Yeah.
- [75:16]
A
Maybe put the Jews in camps lady would have been more competitive against a MAGA challenger in a red district.
- [75:25]
C
Yeah. Like if they ran in a primary against each other.
- [75:28]
B
Yeah. As a Republican. Are you saying that. No, no.
- [75:30]
A
I mean like if she was the
- [75:31]
B
damn nominee like should put up in west Texas. Should go put. I don't, I'm. I don't think so.
- [75:36]
A
Maybe, maybe she could have. Maybe there are votes to be had.
- [75:39]
B
There is what I'm saying.
- [75:41]
A
Not in the Democratic primary.
- [75:42]
B
Yeah. Bexar County. So I don't know. Maybe some of these people. It does. You know big spurs game tonight. So turn that was down a little bit but Johnny Garcia won. That's good. The other interesting kind of race, just a flag is she got more a
- [75:55]
C
higher percentage than Corant's gonna get in his primary.
- [76:00]
B
Not funny.
- [76:01]
C
I'm not. I know.
- [76:03]
A
Very funny.
- [76:03]
C
I'm sorry my alarmed face.
- [76:05]
B
It's alarming. That's alarming. It's alarming. There's nothing else to say about it. It is alarming. It's bad. All 4,982 of you people. Bad. Very bad, actually. Christian Menafee, young, handsome black guy. I was running at primary at Al Green. 82 year old Al Green. I, I ended up loving Al Green. You know, he was a guy that was shouting at Trump. The difference, not the singer. You know, he was the one that had the sign. He's had the sign at the State of the Union. It's like I'm not an ape or whatever. You know, feisty, feisty. 82. He loses in this primary. And so we have like a couple of like concurrent trends happening on the Democratic side. Like there's the generational element to this. Democrats are tired of the old people, which I endorse. On the other hand, big. The two big groups that are spending on all the Democratic primaries, the AI Crypto crowd and the APAC and associated Pro Israel crowd. They both also came in for benefit. The younger guy which is a little different. A lot of times the younger person spend more of the lib and the big packs are coming in for the establishment person. So I don't really know what to make of that. But except for I do think the power of generational change is pretty noticeable in these Democratic primaries right now.
- [77:35]
C
Yeah.
- [77:37]
A
All right. Sarah, do you have anything to wrap us up here before I take us home?
- [77:44]
C
Just the going back to platinum. That was also a generational thing just in part.
- [77:49]
B
Yeah.
- [77:49]
C
Like, I mean, if they, if the, if in Maine, I mean, there was just a real swing and a miss in terms of trying to put up Janet mills there, another 82 year old. But I don't know, I guess there's part of me that wants to talk about the. There is. If Democrats, responsible Democrats don't figure out how to talk about decoupling American foreign policy with Israel's in a way that is sort of normal, a normal way one might interact with foreign policy, you are going to see more people being much more strident on the issue in ways that are not normal politics that are. And, and I think that Democrats are going to have to figure out how to navigate. It's like, it's like so many of these other things. If, if regular Democrats aren't going to talk about A4 affordability, the socialists will. If regular Democrats aren't going to figure out how to be, how to assess Israel's current role in American foreign policy, then, you know, people who really hate Israel will. And like this is, this is over and over again. You are going to see this repeating. And anyway, that's my last thought.
- [79:07]
B
It's concerning.
- [79:08]
A
All right, we're going to take you home with something.
- [79:10]
B
Great.
- [79:10]
A
I got a vamp for 30 seconds though. And so I'm gonna, going to take us to get there.
- [79:15]
B
We have a Memorial Day sale.
- [79:17]
A
Cruz, hold. No, no, no. We're not doing that here. Ted Cruz worked for a long time with John Cornyn. He waited until 9:51 as a sign of respect to tweet out congratulations to Attorney General Ken Paxton. Tonight's victory is my full support and endorsement as the Republican nominee. Ken is a fearless conservative who spent years taking on Texas's toughest battles as Attorney General. And it's proven he will always fight. He will continue that fight in the US Senate and I look forward to fighting alongside him.
- [79:51]
C
He'll fight by breaking all the laws
- [79:53]
A
unsaid that what he was doing was fighting against law enforcement.
- [79:57]
C
Yeah, right.
- [79:58]
A
That's, that's it. So we're gonna take you home with something special from the good people of Texas. You know, as there is nothing wrong with America that can't be fixed by what's right with America. I feel like the people are the problem. They're also the solution. And so here I give to you the people.
- [80:33]
B
I hate with. They've taken Gloria from us.
- [80:35]
C
I know.
- [80:41]
A
Good show. Long show. Good luck, america.
- [80:45]
B
Bye.