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- [00:00]
A
This is Iris Palmer from Against All Odds with Iris Palmer. Okay, you guys, if you're anything like me and you're always on the go, this is a great new go to the McDonald's Caesar snack wrap. The now crispier McCrispy strip and Caesar sauce is la combination Perfecta. Add a Diet Coke and you're ready to take charge. Dien El crunch. Dien El flavor. And it's only $2.99. Pricing and participation may vary. Try the Caesar Snack wrap at participating McDonald's for a limited time queue. Rico. You guys.
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B
Hello, everyone. This is JVL here with my best friend Sarah Longwell, publisher of the Bulwark. Sarah, happy Friday.
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C
Happy Friday to you.
- [00:43]
B
Hey, hey, hey. It's good to see you.
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C
It's good to see you. I miss you.
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B
Good to see. I miss you, too.
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C
I miss you a lot. And we keep having people between us, you know?
- [00:53]
B
I know. And will next week as well. Oh, no. Next week. So next week you're out, but I am also out next week. And so next week's secret, I think is going to be me and Tim, but we'll tape it early. So you guys will get me and Tim, but we will like have taped it on a Thursday night or something like that. I'm sure everybody really cares about these things. Let me give you guys a quick map of the show for today. We're going to talk about Gutless John Cornyn and Thom Tillis. We are going to look at some Senate polling numbers and ask whether or not the Senate is truly in play. We're going to look at some Trump polling where the Bush line is with. You can see the Bush line from your front porch. By the way, a commenter pointed out on the site that somebody else has started using the Bush like another publication has. Has used the Bush line with regards to Trump. I think that means that you have manifested that into the world.
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C
Yes. Somebody needs to. Congratulations, send it to me. I want to make sure it's with attribution.
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B
And then because the people demand it, we are going to have a private behind the paywall conversation about Ross Douthat's new job at 60 Minutes. As an impression, I assume I'll just
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C
sit here while you burst into flames.
- [02:20]
B
Who knows, Maybe that's what will happen. We'll find out after the paywall, won't we? But first, Sarah, we are going to start with a Reuters story yesterday. I don't know if you saw this or not, that the State Department was at an international conference on AIDS and they Were making a presentation, and one of the slides in their deck had a map of Africa. And all of the countries were mislabeled. Not one of the countries were mislabeled. All of them.
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C
And it was. It was us. It was us.
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B
That was. That was us. And so a bunch of attendees were looking at this, were like, what the is going on? And snap pictures with their iPhones. And these went to Reuters, and Reuters did an analysis of the photos. And do you know what they discovered?
- [03:17]
C
Tell me.
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B
They discovered a watermark on the slide suggesting that the entire thing had been created by ChatGPT.
- [03:28]
C
Oh,
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B
are we going to eventually find out someday that this entire administration was basically being run by ChatGPT? I was thinking about, didn't we very, very early have an RFK Jr HHS report that was clearly written by ChatGPT and, like, included a whole bunch of hallucinated citations that don't exist and stuff like that? This is the very, very tip of the iceberg. Can you imagine how much of this is going on in the administration?
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C
I mean, this is a good. When you have a new technology, often what is the most important thing is that humans are still smart enough to look at it and check it. Right? Like ChatGPT or some of these AI tools, especially for things like PowerPoints presentations, where they're synthesizing information, can be a really useful tool, but you still have to know the underlying material in order to make sure that it's not hallucinating things. And this administration, I mean, and it just goes, this administration is filled with morons. Like, oh, my gosh. I mean, people who are wildly incompetent for the jobs that they hold. I think that. I think about this a lot, actually. How oftentimes Catherine was making this point on tnl, Catherine Rampel, she said, you know, sometimes I think we. We focus on the wrong thing. She's like, I understand why we. When Trump says quiet piggy, we all focus on that. Or the reflecting pool. She's like, there's all these, like, incredibly serious damage they're doing that goes beyond sort of the profane, right, that we focus on the profane. Because it still is quite shocking to hear a president just call a female reporter quiet piggy. Like, it's disgusting. And so, of course, we gravitate to it. But it is. Catherine's point is. Right. I've thought about this a lot. Like, in all of the layers of our government, incompetent people are currently screwing things up to the point where we have no. We can have no faith in the information, whether it's jobs reports, health data, all of this stuff like the level of cleanup job the next administration is going to have to do, assuming it's a Democratic administration that has any interest in governing.
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B
Or maybe it'll be a totally normal Republican administration.
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C
Sure.
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B
Did you ever think about that, Sarah? Maybe it'll be a Republican administration. Grownups who care about government like Nikki Haley or Marco Rubio, you know, people were just normies who did they, God said what they had to to get along, Sarah. But inside they were secretly responsible people.
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C
You know, sometimes people, I've said this to you before and someone else said this to me recently, they're like, well, you know, we're just, we worry sometimes that after Trump, you never Trumpers, we'll go back to the Republican Party. And I was like, on what planet do you think after all that we've seen, I would never, I mean, unless I'm 80 years old and the whole. We've exercised all of this and I don't know what the scenario would have to be, but there is no way I would go back to this Republican Party. And part it's because. Partly because it's. It's populated by morons and bad people. There's only two kinds of people. There are malign people or malicious people, and there are dumb people. Often they overlap.
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B
Also cowards, a lot of cowards. Let me get to those people in a minute. Don't forget the cowards.
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C
Sure.
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B
Yeah. It's really something. I just, I have a response to Catherine, which I. It didn't occur to me while we were on tnl, but, but I want to bring it to you.
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C
Yeah.
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B
As somebody who, who is a communications professional, it seems to me that, for instance, the single worst thing that the administration has done was the dismantling of usaid, which seems to have resulted in the deaths of at least tens of thousands, but maybe hundreds of thousands of
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C
people so far also decimated our superpower status.
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B
You know, this is part of the interest and stuff like that.
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C
Yeah. Cutting through our soft power. But. And, and then, and of course, yes. And also lots of people died as a result.
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B
So that's like the most important policy thing that seems to have been talked to death endlessly. And the considered opinion of the, the people is, yeah, whatever, don't care. So it is not crazy to focus on the profane, if the profane is what it takes to get people to pay attention, because I do not believe you're going to get the people to pay attention. On like the bad policy.
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C
Well, my, my pushback to that would be that the USAID and lots of other things that Americans can't see, touch or feel and the only thing they think of is like, well, we're spending money over there, right? Nobody has tried. Nobody, I think trying to explain to the American people the importance of soft power in this moment. You need to be a really great communicator. So people don't care about that. They do care about things like their gas prices, other or things that they can see here. I mean, they were enthralled and I mean enthralled in a meaning. It got their attention when Americans were being shot in the streets by ICE agents. And there is a reason that Trump is currently polling. I know you want to get to this, but I don't, I don't know. Okay. But the point is, is it's not like there's no public opinion reckoning for Trump. I just. And so I don't. I think as a policy matter, it just has to be reflected here at home. And there's a lot of that, a lot of. Because those things do impact Americans. Cutting all of the NIH grants and the research that does matter to people.
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B
See, a good person like Catherine Rampel has a finite amount of rage and outrage to give to the world because she's really good. This guy right here. I am the cold fusion of rage and outrage. And so I can just output that across the spectrum. I have enough for everything. I have enough for Be Quiet Piggy and for USAID and for, you know, the, the AIDS conference and all that. So.
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C
And can I just, just to defend Catherine's point, for one, I just think her point is there is enormous amount of damage to us as a culture by Quiet Piggy. I agree with you. Like, you should be mad about both. There's a lot of cultural damage done to that. Right. Like we're all being acculturated into this toxic way of communicating with each other, talking to each other, tolerating a present, present president doing it. But I do think the long term damage of some of the things that are happening that we're not talking about very much. Like there's so many of those things that aren't getting attention because this is Trump's superpower. This is another thing I think about a lot. Trump's doing so much damage that it's very difficult to get your arms around. Whereas if you are a Democrat who has a single scandal, Republicans can get everybody's attention focused on that.
- [10:52]
B
Just do it over and over and over. Okay, I would like to talk about Todd Blanche and his nomination because this is a case where I'm going to need you to explain human beings to me because I'm a pot person. I don't really understand you people. You do. Let me sum up for people what's going on with the Todd Blanche nomination. John Cornyn and Thom Tillis have decided to hold up the nomination in committee. The reason they have done this is because they seem to want in writing a thing that Todd Blanche said, which was that the weaponization fund. And people may not remember this, but this was the idea that the Department of Justice and the IRS were settling a lawsu filed by the president against themselves. So the president is a private citizen suing his own executive branch. They were going to give, I Forget, was it $1.8 billion of taxpayer money to him to dole out seven seven, six seven. Oh, sorry. To dole out to whoever he likes as his personal slush fund. And also, we're going to give him and his family total immunity from future prosecutions by the irs. After some pushback, Todd Blanche then said, no, we won't do it. And Cornyn and Tillis would like him to write that down on a piece of paper. Todd Blanche has been resistant to do this. So this is the source of the impasse. Here's what I don't understand. What I don't understand is that Tillis and Cornyn, in their public statements have both indicated that Todd Blanche is a good dude and that he totally agrees with them and that the problem is that there is someone at the White House, an advisor, who is just dug in on this and is giving the President bad advice and that that is the source of the problem. And Donald Trump's response to this is to tell them both to go fuck off. My question to you is why are they still trying to protect Trump and pretend that Trump isn't the bad guy here? And we're going to get to your answer in a minute. First, this show is sponsored by hims. You've got weight loss goals, and this summer, it's time to actually hit them. Weight loss by HIMS is designed to support you every step of the way. And now Hims offers access to an affordable range of FDA approved GLP1 medications, including the Wegovy pill and the Wegovy pen, so you can lose the weight and keep it off with WeGovy@Hims. Lose up to 20% off your body weight when accompanied with diet and exercise. Your it helps you regulate your appetite, eat less and keep weight off. Plus, WeGovy is the first ever GLP1 pill for weight loss, so there are no needles needed. Through hims, everything happens online. You'll connect with a licensed provider who will determine if treatment is right for you. If prescribed, your medication is delivered right to your door. No insurance necessary. And it doesn't stop there. HIMSS makes hitting your goals seamless by offering access to 24.7 messaging with your care team and and in app lifestyle and nutrition support like recipes, meal plans, fitness videos, sleep content and more. Even better, with a range of affordable GLP1 options, HIMSS makes it simple to find a weight loss approach that fits into your world and your wallet. If eligible, you'll get a treatment plan personalized to you and unlimited dosage changes as needed. Ready to reach your goals? Visit himss.com thenextlevel to get a personalized, affordable plan that gets you that's hims.com thenextlevel hims.com thenextlevel Weight loss by HIMSS is not available in all 50 states. Wegovy is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk. As to get started and learn more, including important safety information, WeGovy clinical study information, and restrictions, visit HIMSS.com so here's my question to you. From the perspective of Thom Tillis and John Cornyn, they have three options regarding this nomination. The first is to just roll over and say, fine, whatever.
- [15:39]
C
Right? Yep.
- [15:40]
B
The second is to tell the President, fuck you. Fuck me? No, fuck you. Yeah, we're not going to vote for this guy. Instead, they've invented this pretend objection where, like everything else about Todd Blanche is fine. The Epstein stuff is fine, the Ghislaine Maxwell stuff is fine. That he was the President's personal lawyer is fine. The only thing we'd like is could you please just write down that you won't do the bad thing you said you would do, even though him writing it down isn't gonna stop him from undoing it anyway. Like the idea that this is a legally binding contract, that if Blanche puts it in writing that he won't do this thing, that it prevents him, that it's like some magical seal that, well, if he tries to do it, he'll drop dead instant. It's a gypsy curse. That's not. And. And while they're also holding on to this one fake objection demanding this one stupid thing that wouldn't actually prevent him from doing the bad thing they're objecting to anyway, they're also trying to preserve the idea that this isn't Trump's fault and this is somebody else doing it. Why would they do this?
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C
Sarah, this is an easy one. Like, okay, these are, these are people who do not have the testicular fortitude to defend their own honor. Because obviously the thing that they should do is be like, you didn't endorse me. You endorsed my opponents. You came after me despite my sucking up to you. I mean, do you remember Cornyn reading the art of the deal and taking a picture of it, which you didn't. It wasn't actually reading photo like, that is the kind of man we're talking about. And just because he is preferable to Ken Paxton and many other people, which he is on, like, the worst scale ever. Right? Just because you're better than the most corrupt Texan to hold office in recent memory doesn't make you a great politician. But if Cornyn or Tillis had an ounce of self respect, they would tell. They would, they would torpedo this for. And just, just, just, just to stop Trump. Now, on the IRS thing, the part of it I'm not sure I agree with you on is I think it's not just write it down on a piece of paper they have to kill forever. This, the slush fund, plus the immunity. Now, here's the thing. Ask yourself this question. Why is Trump fighting so hard for immunity from the irs? Why is he willing to take them on? And this is what's crazy to me is that, like, I think that actually it would matter if Blanche said, this is done. This cannot be. You can't, you can't. You can't have this immunity because bringing it back, you're. I guess you're right that they could probably technically do it. It would be, it would be a huge problem for him in part because it just really underscores how desperately he needs the immunity. And it would be terrible for Blanche to reverse it and do it. But you're right. That. I guess. I don't know.
- [18:53]
B
I'm pretty sure he could get over that. I'm pretty sure he could get over that. Again, it's not a law. It's just. They just want him to write a memo saying, well, you know, I don't
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C
think they just want him to write a memo. I think it is a, it is a, like, signed, you know, deal that, like, we will not give the President immunity from the irs.
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B
Era.
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C
Yeah.
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B
You may not, you may not know this, but the United States government in general, even before Trump and this President Donald Trump violates written deals all the Time. The United States government signed back after the fall of the Soviet Union a deal with Russia and Ukraine in which we guaranteed defense of the territorial sovereignty of Ukraine if they would just give up the nuclear weapons they were holding on to. And the Ukrainians like, okay, great, this is good. We have. It's right here in writing. The President of the United States signed it. The president of Russia signed it. It's just a piece of paper. It didn't do anything. Right. This is. The president just signed a deal with Saudi Arabia about getting a nuclear program running for them for civilian use, you know, only for civilian use, Sarah. And like, three days after he signed this deal, he was like, yeah, well, you know, we'll do that if they recognize Israel. And the sideways were like, what are you talking about, bro? We just signed it. We got papers. And Trump was like, yeah, whatever.
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C
This is the.
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B
These things don't matter.
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C
I do hear you. That stipulated that these are not people who play by the letter of the law. I would ask you, though, why is Trump willing to die on this Hill?
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B
I think it's just dominance.
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C
Yeah.
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B
I think she's going to control the Senate anyway afterwards. Here's my question. Why are Tillis and Cornyn bothering to raise the objection at all then? Why not just bend over, like, whatever. I'm out of here anyway. Fine. Have you have your nominee.
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C
I agree with you. That is weird. That weird half way that they've taken. Yeah. The half step.
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B
I mean, not even a half step. It's like a tenth of a step. Right.
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C
I do think they are. I do think their level of cowardice balanced with their level of rage at Trump. Like, their cowardice keeps them from going full on blowing up Trump's nominee. But their anger gives them just enough
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B
that they want narcissism.
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C
Yeah.
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B
They want to make them feel like they've got a. Like, oh, yeah, well, I really showed that guy.
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C
Yeah. I don't know.
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B
They'll think twice before he crosses me again.
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C
Can I. Can I take a different position on this, though? I hear where you want to go, but to me, what is crazy about this is that they're like, okay, just sign this thing. And nobody seems to be freaking out about the fact that Donald Trump wanted to do something so corrupt and that his head of the Department of Justice was willing to do it for him.
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B
Yes.
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C
That, like, the underlying predicate. Everybody is sort of caught up in the machinations of these guys, but, like, the underlying predicate of Trump wants to do this massively corrupt thing. It is so corrupt that those guys had made it their focal point to the exclusion of. To the exclusion of the fact that Blanche also did all the Epstein stuff. Like they were like, this is even more corrupt than the Epstein stuff. And so this is the hill we're going to not die on, but sleep on. These are one of the moments where I'm like, are we all living? Am I taking crazy pills? Like at no point should this even be on the table. And, and the fact that we don't seem to be having a national conversation about the point of contention being this in bonkers level of corruption from Trump is frustrating to me.
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B
Top lynch should not be confirmed, period. The end. There is no universe in which he should be confirmable.
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C
He's not. I shouldn't be confirmed. I was going to say he's not confirmable, but of course he is. If they confirm him. Yeah.
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B
All right, so we're going to talk about the Senate because actually that's important about this because Trump's entire posture here is predicated on basically the idea that he's pretty confident they're going to hold the Senate. And we get a whole bunch of Senate polls which actually look pretty good for Democrats. We're going to talk about that. We are going to talk about a little bit more Trump. Correction. And I promise you we will get to the rost outfit on 60 Minutes stuff, but we're gonna do that on the other side, guys. We, we do very, very little paywalled stuff at the Bulwark. This is one of those things, if you would like to support this. Gotta. You see media that you like in the world, you gotta help build it. Like, it doesn't just grow on its own and come hang with us. Right?
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C
Yeah, you see, you see that? We're putting it back into growing the Bulwark because we believe in this project. So believe in it with us.
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B
Come ride with us.